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Speaker 1: Heather do for ce Ellen, Joe Rogan loves it. Gwyneth

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Speaker 1: Paltrow loves it. Lewis Hamilton loves it. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: ag One, which is a billion dollar supplement company founded

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Speaker 1: by a New Zealander Chris Ashington. Now, the entrepreneur has

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Speaker 1: quit as the chief executive and the reason he's done

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Speaker 1: that has come after a newsroom investigation challenged him on

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Speaker 1: the company's revenues and claims that the product has made

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand. Now, Jonathan Milne is newsroom pros managing

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Speaker 1: editor and he and maker of the Powder Keg podcast,

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Speaker 1: which is what this is all about. It is with

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Speaker 1: us Now, John Oh, how are you doing very well?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? How did he get endorsements like this? I

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Speaker 1: mean those are massive names.

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Speaker 2: Look, this company is like one of the biggest social

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Speaker 2: media operators in the world. Sorry, social influencer operators. There

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Speaker 2: there's stars in this in this arena. But you know

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Speaker 2: that kind of influence doesn't come cheap. And Rogan Herberman,

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Speaker 2: they're getting millions from ag one to endorse it. The

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Speaker 2: new CEO of ag One herself says that they are

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Speaker 2: the third biggest ad spender in audio in the world.

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Speaker 2: So this is a massive, massive marketing spend and.

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Speaker 1: It's massive overseas, but not here. Why is it not here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting. That's actually one of the things

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Speaker 2: that piqued my interest about this in the first place,

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Speaker 2: because I found out about this guy. You know, my

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Speaker 2: wife played me this at this podcast and she said,

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Speaker 2: check out this head you know, and made in New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: made for nearly everybody, and I'd never heard of it,

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Speaker 2: and it was made by this Kiwi guy, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: this is absolutely fascinating. But when I started digging a

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Speaker 2: little bit, well, when he wouldn't front for an interview,

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Speaker 2: because you know what, big corporate doesn't want to spook

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Speaker 2: their product on free media. When he wouldn't front for

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Speaker 2: an interview, I just started a few journalistic alarm bells

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Speaker 2: started to ring, and so I started digging around a

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Speaker 2: little bit further and found found in the gazettees, the

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Speaker 2: New Zealand Gazette which never forgets, you know, sort of.

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Speaker 1: This ancient record of journalism.

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Speaker 2: It records bad stuff that be done for a very

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Speaker 2: long time. And I found out that that he'd actually

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Speaker 2: declared himself bankrupt, owing three million dollars I think that's

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Speaker 2: why he doesn't market his own product to New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: even though it's made ind and he boasts about it

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Speaker 2: being made in New Zealand. I think the reason that

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Speaker 2: he doesn't market it here is because he knows that

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Speaker 2: it's going to come back to bite him.

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Speaker 1: But so what I mean, lots of people who've done

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Speaker 1: who go on to be very successful business people have

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Speaker 1: in the past been bankrupted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree absolutely, And I think everyone to

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Speaker 2: get a second chance, right. You know, we've all done

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Speaker 2: stuff we regret, we've all made mistakes, and we all

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Speaker 2: should be given a chance to go on. But what

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Speaker 2: he's gone on to do is try to spin his

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Speaker 2: way out out of us and try to hide it.

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Speaker 2: And if it was a simple case that he had

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Speaker 2: done some bad stuff in the past, and he did

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Speaker 2: burn a lot of people, and I've talked to a

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Speaker 2: lot of people who got really badly vulnerable, people who

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Speaker 2: tried to get into their first homes and thought they

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Speaker 2: were on the property ladder. Turned out he never handed

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Speaker 2: the data title over to them. So he did get convicted.

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Speaker 1: It's not a decent bankruptcy.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, it's not a good on a bankruptcy.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what that looks like, but but you know,

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Speaker 2: I could even forgive them that if he said, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: I got it wrong, and I'll pay my reparations because

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm a multi millionaire now. I will

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Speaker 2: pay one hundred and eighty two thousand dollars in fines

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Speaker 2: and reparations at the New Zealand courts ordered me to

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Speaker 2: pay to these people who are on the bones of

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Speaker 2: their ass and will never own their own home now

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Speaker 2: they're at retirement age or they're approaching retirement age. This

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Speaker 2: was their one chance to get on the property ladder

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Speaker 2: in South Auckland or in Viicago where he ran his schemes,

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Speaker 2: and it's never going to happen for them now an apology.

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Speaker 2: He has now delivered an apology to them via a

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Speaker 2: statement to me. He has said he deeply apologized for

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Speaker 2: any hurt that was caused, but he refuses to talk

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Speaker 2: about that one hundred and eighty two thousand dollars in

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Speaker 2: fines and reparations that he's never paid.

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Speaker 1: Johnny, you also said that the stuff is made in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. But it's not, is it.

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Speaker 2: Look it is. Some of it is some of it is.

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Speaker 2: There's a contract manufacturer that used to make all of

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Speaker 2: it and they have now up back dramatically and shifted

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Speaker 2: a lot of that production to Utah in the United States.

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Speaker 2: So that's going to be hard for that manufacturing company.

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Speaker 2: And it also means that they've kept on since they

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Speaker 2: started doing that, shifting so much their production to Utah,

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Speaker 2: they kept on marketing it is being made in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand for the subsequent two years until I asked questions

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Speaker 2: about it, and then they started pulling those ads. I

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Speaker 2: have talked to the Commerce Commission about this. They're not happy,

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Speaker 2: they've they've they're very hard line on companies marketing their

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Speaker 2: products as made in New Zealand or produced New Zealand

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Speaker 2: or from New Zealand when they're not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for obvious reasons.

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Speaker 2: Obviously reasons. You know New Zealand. You know our image,

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Speaker 2: our brand image a New Zealanders is with billions of

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Speaker 2: dollars in this country. We need to keep it clean.

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Speaker 1: Now does the stuff work? Does it do what it says?

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Speaker 1: It does?

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Speaker 2: Look Like you said earlier, the scientific evidence just ain't

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Speaker 2: there yet. I tried it, did you. Yeah? I went

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Speaker 2: to great links to get a whole lot shipped into

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Speaker 2: the country.

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Speaker 1: By looking a little unwell at the moment, I'm just joking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to get sued now as well

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Speaker 1: for saying that, just like I'm going to to you,

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Speaker 1: I tell me, what does it taste like? What is

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Speaker 1: it like?

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Speaker 2: I could tell you that that's that's like the sort

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Speaker 2: of that's the big unveil A right taste like banana,

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Speaker 2: taste like banana. It's actually quite nice. It's really habit forming.

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Speaker 2: I took it every morning for a couple of months.

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Speaker 1: Why is it habit for me?

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Speaker 2: It it tastes nice, and I don't really I don't

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Speaker 2: really get it. Yeah, I think I get up early

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Speaker 2: in the morning, you know, I get up at three

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Speaker 2: or four am to write a morning newsletter. I make

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Speaker 2: myself a big bloody pot of coffee, a black coffee,

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Speaker 2: and for two months I made myself a shaker of

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Speaker 2: age you one and I have a sort of side

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Speaker 2: by side healthy coffee, healthy coffee. And it tasted good

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Speaker 2: and it was just a ritual. And I don't have

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Speaker 2: breakfast for like six hours into my day or something,

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Speaker 2: and so it's just it's just something that I could

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Speaker 2: do that I enjoyed, and I felt a little bit

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Speaker 2: sad when I stopped taking it, and that I mean,

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Speaker 2: you laugh. But that habit forming that's absolutely critical to

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Speaker 2: their business, bottle of that and social influencers because they've

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Speaker 2: got a subscription model, and as you said, as some

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Speaker 2: of your listeners said, you can't buy it in New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: so and you can't buy it over the counter anywhere,

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Speaker 2: so people have to get it from the company. And

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Speaker 2: a monthly subscription costs a bomb one hundred US dollars

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Speaker 2: a month. If they're going to keep people paying for

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Speaker 2: that money and keep them on subscription, they need to

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Speaker 2: form a habit. It's critical to them. Why did he quit, Look,

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Speaker 2: he's he has not confirmed that it was because of

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Speaker 2: the questions we were asking. We were asking some pretty

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Speaker 2: robust questions about the level of his disclosure of his

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Speaker 2: criminal records. He did, but this year he said that

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Speaker 2: he didn't hadn't committed any crimes. He said that he'd

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Speaker 2: never had an arrest warrant issued against him. He said

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Speaker 2: that he'd paid all his fines and reparations. Now we're

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Speaker 2: able to demonstrate him with court papers that there's demonstrate

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Speaker 2: demonstrably and couraged monsterrably demonstrats start.

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Speaker 1: Then Yeah, I don't have to pronounce it's totally wrong.

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Speaker 2: Those three claims are wrong. And this was just a

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Speaker 2: few months ago in a big meeting that he had

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Speaker 2: with his staff, and presumably he's been saying telling us

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Speaker 2: board the same thing. Now. That can't go down well

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Speaker 2: when we're able to go back to them and say, actually,

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Speaker 2: here's the evidence at what you're telling your company now,

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Speaker 2: what you're telling your customers now, and what you're probably

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Speaker 2: telling your board now. I haven't set in on the

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Speaker 2: board meetings. I hastened to add, but it's not it's

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Speaker 2: not true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, what's the what's the podcast called?

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Speaker 2: It's called Powder Keg. It's on the Dove chournel from

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Speaker 2: from newsroom and I just want to very quickly say

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Speaker 2: thank you very much to the Brian Gainer Initiatives. They

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Speaker 2: helped fund the podcasts and without them we wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: been able to do that. So they're supporting public in

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Speaker 2: trist journalism yadem Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, JOHNO, thank you for coming and really appreciate it

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Speaker 1: and best of luck with it. As Jonathan Mille, Newsroom

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Speaker 1: pro Managing Editor and the Powder Key and obviously behind

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Speaker 1: the Powder Key podcast. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio