1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,279 Speaker 1: Back to the business of the doll As we said earlier, 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: there are now more than four hundred thousand kiwis on 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: some sort of benefit. That's up nearly seven percent on 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: last year. The number of sanctions are also up though, 5 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: which is good, up twenty seven percent. The minister in 6 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: charge of fixing this up as Louise Upston with the 7 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Social Development Portfolio. Morning Louise, Good morning Heather. 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: How are you. 9 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm very well, thank you. Can you do anything about 10 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: these numbers in the short term or do we just 11 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: need to ride out this economic storm. 12 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: Well, it is challenging right now and I feel for 13 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: anyone who has lost their job recently. But the government's 14 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: budget twenty five going for growth, is all about growth 15 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: and infrastructure six point eight billion dollars worth of infrastructure 16 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: projects as well as add on private sector projects in 17 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 2: the infrastructure pipeline, and that shows that there will be hundreds, 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: if not thousands of jobs per projects. Some of those 19 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: are yet to start yet, so it is a bit 20 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: frustrating right now, but I do want to give people 21 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: confidence that those jobs are coming. 22 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: Hang on, Luise, I mean the people who are on 23 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 1: the dol though they're not all construction workers. 24 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 2: Are they No, But we have jobs and skills hubs 25 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: that are actively working with job seekers now to look 26 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: at retraining options to prepare people, make sure they're work 27 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 2: ready and have new skills if they need new skills 28 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: to get ready for those jobs. 29 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: But what are we looking at everybody and saying, hey, hey, okay, 30 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: here you are. You're a clerical worker, We're just going 31 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: to retrain you as a construction work Is everybody going 32 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: to become construction workers? 33 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: No? But if you think about when those projects start, 34 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: there's a variety of roles that come with projects. Some 35 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 2: of them are administrative projects, some of them are involved 36 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: in project administration. But look, a big part of what 37 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: we are doing with the going for growth in addition 38 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: for the infrastructure pipeline is the settings that give businesses 39 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: the confidence to take on more staff. And while we 40 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: haven't hit that point in all sectors, we're seeing the 41 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: primary thestries recover. I'm working on tourism recovery, so those 42 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: jobs will come. But I accept right now where we 43 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: are in this part of the economic cycle, it is 44 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 2: incredibly challenging and that is why gross is the government's focus. 45 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: Okay, I've got to talk to you about this priority 46 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: that's been given to MSD. You've just told them that 47 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: they need to focus first and foremost on getting beneficiaries 48 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,399 Speaker 1: into jobs. Why wasn't that their focus? 49 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: Well, we made that focus for a couple of the 50 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 2: programs last year more directly, Mana and Mahi and also 51 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: Hapo tamarrang Atahi, setting targets for the number or percentage 52 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: of people in those programs already being on the job 53 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: seeker benefit. We've done that more broadly with the Employment 54 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 2: Investment Strategy, just to make sure that programs that taxpayers 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: are funding are for those who are already on the benefit. 56 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: And Yep, while it might make sense that that would 57 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: already be the case, I've confirmed that with the Investment strategy. 58 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: No, hang on a take, Well, who was on these 59 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: programs if it wasn't people who were on the benefit. 60 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: Well some of them, and some of them will still 61 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: work with people at risk of going on to welfare. 62 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: So we do need to also think about the number 63 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: who might come on, and we have to target that 64 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: more accurately. 65 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: How do you know someone's most likely How do you 66 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: identify somebody who's in a job but likely to lose 67 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: their job. 68 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: No, someone who's been long term not an employment educational 69 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: training is a category, but that's on the benefit. No, no, no, no, 70 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: some of that category are not on the benefit yet. 71 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: Well what do they do? 72 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: So sixteen or seventeen year olds may be not an 73 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: employment educational training but not on welfare either, And so 74 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: it's a preventative method. And so, for example, Mayor's Task 75 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: Force for Jobs I met with yesterday, they've often worked 76 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: with a group not on benefit. I've said to them, 77 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: they can work with twenty percent of that cohort, but 78 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: the majority need to be already receiving the job seeker benefit. 79 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So is this wise, though, Louise, because surely the 80 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: whole idea about social investment strategy is actually to target 81 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: people like that before they become a problem, when they're 82 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: still young. 83 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: Yes, So there's different pieces of work. If we look 84 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: at school attendance targets, school achievement target that's all about 85 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: ensuring we have fewer people coming out of the education 86 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: system who can't go into further education or a job. 87 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: There are other preventive mechanisms underway. 88 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: Let me just be absolutely clear about this. So what 89 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: MSD is doing with these programs only involves two groups, 90 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: people who are on the benefit and young people who 91 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: may well end up on the benefits. Just those two groups, 92 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: nobody else, right, No. 93 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: But in addition to that whither we have things like 94 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: the Early Response Initiative. So where there's a big business 95 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: that is closing, MSD work with that organization and the 96 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: employees who are about to be made redundant to support 97 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: them immediately before they go on to welfare. So there 98 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: will still be programs like that that are right the way, 99 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 2: and they are critically important in these economic times where 100 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: there are businesses closing and people being made redundant, but 101 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: where there are significant cost programs and some of them 102 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: cost eight ten thousand dollars per person, I want to 103 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: ensure those are focused on those who are already on 104 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: the job seeker benefit and not at people who are 105 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: in a position to help themselves. Lies. 106 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: And I just want to ask you something really quickly. Okay, 107 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: have you been following this welfare shakeup in the UK? 108 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: I have at a distance here. 109 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: Do you think this is a case of easy populist 110 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: politics which just comes around every now and again, or 111 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: actually is this US as a developed world as part 112 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: of the developed world starting to realize generous welfare is unsustainable. 113 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: Well, I do think it's a question that many countries 114 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: are having to confront. You know, the number of people 115 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: who will be working in New Zealand as taxpayers in 116 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: the years to come and the number of people being 117 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: supported by the welfare system or through the pension. The 118 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: balance needs to come back into balance otherwise it will 119 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: not be sustainable in the long term. 120 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: Louise, think of your time. Louise Upston, Minister for Social 121 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: Development and Employment. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, 122 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, 123 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.