1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Alcohol law 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: reform could be on the cards this government term that's 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: after alcohol was identified as one of the key factors 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: that needs to be addressed to reduce deaths from non 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 2: communicable diseases in the government's policy statement on Health. It 8 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: comes at the start of Dry July, the yearly fundraiser 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 2: that encourages people to give up the booze for a month, 10 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: but now many are. 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: Adopting that as a permanent fixture in their lives. 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: To discuss what alcohol reform could look like today on 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: the front Page, we're joined by Andrew Galloway, Executive director 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: of Alcohol Health Watch. Andrew, people do refer to alcohol 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: as one of our worst drugs. 16 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: Would you agree with that statement? 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 3: Not only do I agree with that statement, I think 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 3: it's well evidenced. The University of Otago, Rose Cross and 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 3: others did a study that ranked using a very well 20 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: established international criteria drug harm, and alcohol comes out on top, 21 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: not only because it's the most widely used, but because 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 3: of the harm it causes to others. So yes, I agree. 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: Roughly how many people in this country struggle with alcoholism 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: or addiction in this area? Do you have any stats 25 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: on that good question. 26 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: I think it's over six hundred thousand. We have seen 27 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 3: in recent years a reduction in both consumption and harmful use, 28 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 3: and that we welcome those changes. But there still is 29 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: a significant problem in terms of drinking. But there's also 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: really high harm from low and moderate amounts of drinking 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: as well. So we just urge people not to get 32 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 3: stuck on and just looking at problem drinking. You know, 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 3: the World Health Organization have said there's no safe limit 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 3: of alcohol consumption, and I think everyone can benefit from 35 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: looking at alcohol consumption. 36 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about drinking culture in this country. 37 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: Do you think it's gotten any better over the years 38 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: since we've been speaking about that. 39 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 3: I think there's some really positive changes that we've seen 40 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 3: in the last decade. And I've been away from the 41 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 3: sector and come back. I had five years doing different roles. 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 3: But in that time we've seen a huge array and 43 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: you know, the alcohol industry have seen the benefit of 44 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 3: having a range of low and no alcohol products that 45 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 3: really do encourage people to space out there drinking or 46 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 3: to have an alternative and I think that's a really 47 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 3: positive change. Unfortunately, we still do have really high amounts 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 3: of hazardous and harmful drinking, and those are disproportionately higher 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: for Mighty and Pacific. So it's a tale of two halves. Really, 50 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 3: you've got a good story. On the one hand, more 51 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 3: people are choosing to drink less or not drink more 52 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: young people are choosing to not drink until later, but 53 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: you still do have high hazardous rates among all sectors 54 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 3: of the population. 55 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 4: I think it's a culture problem. I think we have 56 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 4: a drinking problem in New Zealand. Maybe our young people 57 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 4: have realized that this is in line with what is 58 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 4: being seen around the world, young people taking less risk 59 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 4: taking behaviors, and that's actually our older population that are 60 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 4: coming to harm from alcohol related issues. 61 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: What are some of the health ramifications of alcohol harm. 62 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: It's really really widespread and you may have seen a 63 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 3: Cost of Alcohol Harm report or heard about it come 64 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 3: out last month and their cost has been most recently 65 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: estimated the social and economic cost at roughly nine point 66 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 3: one billion. One of the first recommendations was they did 67 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 3: need to do some more work to help evidence that better. 68 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 3: But even on that amount nine point one billion to 69 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: put that into context, was the lower estimate of the 70 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 3: recovery from cycling Gabriel. So it's a huge amount of cost, 71 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 3: and that's spread across not just government. You know, this 72 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: is a cost that businesses are paying for people who 73 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: are away sick or people who turn up and what 74 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 3: they call present ears, and people who turn up to 75 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 3: work and unders productive or just aren't there. The really 76 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: alarming cost that they've estimated for fetal alcohol spectrum disorder 77 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 3: FAST of four point eight billion disability adjusted life years. 78 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 3: So that's a really academic term, but things like lots 79 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 3: of life and disability related to alcohol, and that quite 80 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: plausibly features because it's a big impact on health. Accidents, 81 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 3: road trauma two point one billion was the societal cost 82 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: of road crushes estimated where alcohol is affector, So it's 83 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: spread right across the whole of society. And I think 84 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: that's one thing that alcohol harm is concerning for us 85 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: as an organization is just how much of society it's 86 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 3: present and how much better off we'd be if all 87 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: of New Zealanders drink a little bit less or chose 88 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 3: not to drink. 89 00:04:58,560 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: Those are some massive number. 90 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: How do they get to those numbers, or how would 91 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: you explain what those numbers mean to someone who had 92 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: no idea how they were brought to be. 93 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 3: It's a really good questions and I'm not an economist, 94 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 3: so economists were involved in this report at ENZII Report, 95 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: New Zealand Institute of Economic Research. But to give you 96 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: one example, FASD's been estimated at four point eight billion. 97 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 3: FASD is a neurodisability which affects people who have been 98 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 3: exposed to alcohol in utero when the mother's pregnant. So 99 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: sadly that has a range of lifelong impacts for some people, 100 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: so people are affected by it to differing degrees. The 101 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 3: seven domains that are impacted, but those include things like 102 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: behavioral challenges, learning difficulties, at times, physical disability. And you 103 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 3: can imagine that there's not just a loss and productivity 104 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: for that person, but often they need to be cared for. 105 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: And sadly, FASD is not recognized as a disability, so 106 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: there's not as much support there. So often family members 107 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 3: have to give up or take a cut in in 108 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: terms of their paying job to look after someone with 109 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 3: their failt. So you can kind of imagine from just 110 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,799 Speaker 3: that one cost that there's a huge flow on effect 111 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: to people around that person who needs support. And I 112 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: think the other example if you look at road crashes. 113 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 3: I was a volunteer in the fire Service and it's 114 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 3: not surprising to me the huge cost that comes with 115 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 3: road crashes, all of those people attending as a cost, 116 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 3: as well as the cost to assets and potentially people's property. 117 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 3: But then think of the long term cost on the 118 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 3: health services from recovery or other costs that are related 119 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 3: to well. 120 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: The government's hinted at an alcohol law reform in their 121 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: policy statement on Health. What is that currently in the 122 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 2: law to deal with alcohol? 123 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 3: So some of the good things that we've seen. In fact, 124 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 3: the only good thing that we've seen change in my 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: opinion in the last few years, was the removal of 126 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 3: the ability for the alcohol industry to appeal local alcohol plans. 127 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: So the government got a really good landmark review on 128 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 3: alcohol in about twenty nine ten and it was done 129 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: by the Law Commission, headed up by Sir Jeffrey Palmer. 130 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: So Jeffrey was a Justice Minister and a previous government 131 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: and passed the Alcohol Law for the nineteen eighty nine 132 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 3: Act which we had which aimed to make alcohol more 133 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: available and would have a cafe style drinking culture like 134 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 3: the French which included more availability and people wouldn't be 135 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: forced to drink quickly. That theory didn't work, It hasn't 136 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: worked in any jurisdiction. What governments and agencies across the 137 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 3: world and researchers have realized is that less availability it 138 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: is better for less harm. And so Jeffrey came to 139 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: that conclusion, guided by his really great team and agencies 140 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: giving him that evidence. He came out with a roadmap 141 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 3: for change which included over one hundred and fifty recommendations 142 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 3: and I think one hundred and twenty six of those 143 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 3: were picked up by the then government. Unfortunately they left 144 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: off things like price marketing and some of that availability. 145 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: So the availability was supposed to be covered by local 146 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: alcohol policies, but what we've seen in practice is a 147 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: very very well resourced alcohol industry which have appealed just 148 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 3: about every local alcohol policy council has tried to implement, 149 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 3: including Auckland, which has fought for ten years. It's just 150 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: about getting to the stage where it might have an lap, 151 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: but that's cost well over a million dollars and christ Church, 152 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: Wellington big metro cities have abandoned. Christ Church is looking 153 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 3: at now doing an LAP. So it's a long way 154 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 3: of answering the question. We haven't seen a great deal. 155 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: We've seen successive reports that cover alcohol. So while the 156 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 3: government said no to changing marketing, advertising and sponsorship rules, 157 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 3: they did instruct a ministerial forum in twenty fourteen and 158 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 3: that was headed up by Graham Blow and had a 159 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 3: really great team of people on it with a good balance. 160 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 3: There were people on there from the Advertising Standards Authority 161 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: looking at alcohol advertising, and that forum came up with 162 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: the very same recommendation that we should phase out alcohol marketing, 163 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 3: sponsorship andising. That didn't end up in anything. That just 164 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 3: got explained away by close to what the industry say. 165 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: They don't want to impact on the majority of reasonable 166 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 3: drinkers by imposing something like that. 167 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 5: In alter or, there are higher amounts of bottle shops 168 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 5: and the advertising that comes with US and low income 169 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 5: Maori and Pacific communities. These companies are usually affiliated with 170 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 5: or supported by international alcohol organizations. They internalize the profits 171 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 5: and take them offshore, but externalize the cost of harm 172 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,479 Speaker 5: onto New Zealanders. 173 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 3: We also had Ministry of Justice the same year look 174 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 3: at price and whether we should impose minimum munit price 175 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 3: and excise taxes. The Law Commission recommended insurprisingly or unsurprisingly, 176 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: the Ministry of Justice came up with the very same 177 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 3: decision or recommendation, which was we should impose a minimum 178 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: unit price and excise tax increase. 179 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: Would that be something like what's happened with tobacco for instance? 180 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 3: In part tobacco has had big excise tax increases a 181 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 3: year on year and it has been a really helpful 182 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 3: tool in helping people change. I know from smokers in 183 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: my life. I was a smoker at one point when 184 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 3: the price rose every January, you thought I'm going to 185 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: quit this year. With alcohol, it's a bit different, you know. 186 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: There is the option of a minimum unit price, which 187 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 3: has been implemented really well in Scotland and really well 188 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 3: in states in Australia. And the difference with a minimum 189 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: unit price is you can impact the really cheap alcohol 190 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 3: without affecting the alcohol and parts. So if you put 191 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 3: them a minimum munit price, I think they use one 192 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 3: dollar fifty per unit in Australia, it won't impact when 193 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 3: you go out to a bar and buy a drink, 194 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: but it will impact that really cheap alcohol. We know 195 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: that really does appeal to hazardous and harmful drinkers or 196 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 3: dependent drinkers, and also young people. And you'll know from 197 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: going into a supermarket as I do, there are specials 198 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 3: every week which are about seven dollars ninety nine for 199 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 3: a bottle of wine, and it would lift that up 200 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: from that price to a comparatively higher price. And the 201 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: Ministry of Justice found that that would save money in 202 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: terms of that high cost of alcohol. The reduction and 203 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 3: consumption of that really cheap alcohol would reduce the costs. 204 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 3: But also if it was coupled with an excise tax 205 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: increase actually bring in some more excis that could offset it. 206 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: To me, the argument against raising alcohol prices, I would 207 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: assume it would be from the hospitality industry other than 208 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: the alcohol industry as well. But in terms of getting 209 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: those lower end, lower priced drinks, that seems that's common sense. 210 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: Right. 211 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: It's a win win, isn't it win win win? In fact, 212 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 3: you know, you win in terms of reducing that high 213 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 3: cost of harm, you win in terms of reducing consumption 214 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 3: and harm, and you win in terms of really what 215 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 3: the government's looking for now is looking for revenue and 216 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 3: all the places it can. So it's a win win win, 217 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 3: and I think government needs to be reassured. From a 218 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: University of Otago and Kanser Society project we participated in 219 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 3: late last year, there's really really high public support for 220 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 3: the fact that the price is very cheap alcohol should 221 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 3: be raised. 222 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: So what would be the reason or the barriers for 223 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: us to do this? Can the government tomorrow just say, look, 224 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: we're doing this. 225 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: They could impose a minimum minute price without too much problem. 226 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 3: I would think obviously you'd need to go through a 227 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 3: consultation process. But excis tax increase, I think there's periods 228 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 3: in the year when you can increase excis tax relatively easily. 229 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: I say that, and I'm not a government policy person. 230 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a ton of work that goes into it, 231 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: but yeah, I mean with tobacco, they increased excise tax 232 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: at a scheduler way and it was every year January one. 233 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: They could do the same with alcohol, and I think 234 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: the only thing that's missing is political will, And I 235 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 3: think part of that reason is the really good and 236 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 3: effective influence the alcohol industry have, and their messaging is 237 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 3: very very consistent. It's consistent across the globe and it's 238 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 3: the message, oh, you shouldn't really impact on the majority 239 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: of moderate drinkers, when in fact we know even moderate 240 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 3: drinkers can be causing harm to themselves or others. But 241 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 3: also that most people, when confronted with a bit of 242 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: evidence and the facts, would go I can actually see 243 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 3: why you raise excise tax or oppose a minim immune 244 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: pricess like you say a win. 245 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: Win Green co leader Chloe Swarbrick had the bill last 246 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: term that would have curbed alcohol sponsorship at sports events. 247 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 4: Young people are being exposed to alcohol advertising, which is 248 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 4: continuing to normalize and to glamorize alcohol. 249 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: South Auckland's top public health expert, doctor Gary Jackson, agrees 250 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: and wrote to local MPs asking them to back at. 251 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 6: Children in New Zealand see alcohol advertising everywhere, especially promoted 252 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 6: by their sporting heroes. Currently in New Zealand, we are 253 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 6: not protecting our Tamini key from exposure to alcohol marketing, 254 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 6: promotions and sponsorship. 255 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: Would you have liked to have seen that pass? 256 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah. I wasn't here at the time, but my 257 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 3: previous executive director worked very closely with Chloe and then 258 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: subsequently with Kitty Ellen. I think the Justice Minister, if 259 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: you remember, Chloe's bill was voted down, but the government 260 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: decided at the time to put up their own bill. 261 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: Sadly that was stopped during the policy bondfire after the 262 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 3: change in leadership. But yeah, I think that was a 263 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 3: really really good response and I think Chloe has picked 264 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: up the really good strong evidence from starting at the 265 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 3: Law Commission review and then looking at the Ministerial Forum 266 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: and then further the Government acquiry into mental Health and 267 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: addiction that happened in I think eighteen twenty nineteen, which 268 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: recommended that the government should do some of the recommendations 269 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 3: from reports it said previously and wrote a really strong 270 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: bill on it. And it's sad to see that that 271 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: didn't progress or it got kind of tossed out in 272 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: that policy bonfire with the commitment that they might look 273 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 3: at it next term and the government changed and here 274 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: we are. But it was a great program and again 275 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 3: the public really do support and this is again in 276 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: the Cancer Society and Otago we did last year, this 277 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 3: strong public support for banning alcohol sponsorship at supporting community 278 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: and other events that people go to underratings go to 279 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 3: in particular, and banning all marketing and sponsorship also had 280 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: high public support. So I think it's one of those 281 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 3: things where our government would benefit from just having a 282 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 3: good look at the evidence, having a good look at 283 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 3: the public support for change, because I think everyone out 284 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: in community will know someone who's impacted by alcohol harm 285 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 3: given its prevalence, and they'd be prepared to take some 286 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: imposition on the use of it or the consumption or 287 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 3: the sale of it in light of the fact that 288 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: the evidence says that that will lead to less harm. 289 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: Is it astonishing that alcohol was ever made a legal substance. 290 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: I know that's a big call, but. 291 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 3: Is it Put it another way, if we were going 292 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: to introduce alcohol in the present day, knowing a little 293 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 3: bit about its impact, we would do so in a 294 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: really different way. When we look at regulating as the 295 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 3: government did a few years ago when we had a 296 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 3: vote on cannabis product which doesn't have as much of 297 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 3: the harm to others, they looked at the same sorts 298 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 3: of things, how it's advertised, how it's marketed, how available 299 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 3: it'll be. So yeah, I think if we had the 300 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: opportunity and we were really looking at alcohol for the 301 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: first time, I think we would take a very different 302 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: approach to having it so cheap, having it so available, 303 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: and having it glamorized through alcohol marketing, sponsorship and advertising. 304 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: And so if the government were to do something tomorrow, 305 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: if you could snap your fingers, what is on the 306 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: top of the agenda do you think not the easiest, 307 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: but what should be at the top of the agenda. 308 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 3: Well, we're in evidence based public health organization, so we 309 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 3: would point to the most evidence based approaches that you 310 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: could take to reducing the harm, and that would be 311 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 3: impacting price, So like we've talked about the minimum unit 312 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: price or excise tax increases. The next would be alcohol marketing, 313 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: advertising and sponsorship. We know from the evidence that young 314 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 3: people who are exposed to advertising early more likely to 315 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: go on and have a hazardous relationship with alcohol, so 316 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 3: in particular for young people, but not just we also 317 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 3: know from dependent drinkers that glamorous marketing and advertising can 318 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: be a hook back into drinking and availability. Finally, you know, 319 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 3: making sure that we really are making it available in 320 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 3: a way that is consistent with the amount of harm 321 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 3: that it causes. And we could look at some other 322 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 3: countries Canada, for example, who have a government monopoly on 323 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 3: retail alcohol, and that really does reduce both the availability 324 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 3: in some of those shady operators that do some harmful 325 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: marketing at times. So there's quite a range of things 326 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 3: that you could do. The other one that we advocate 327 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 3: for is including t TDT in the alcohol framework because 328 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 3: we know that madia very heavily over represented in the 329 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: harms from alcohol. 330 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: And finally we're speaking about this as dry July kicks off. 331 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: I know the general concept is just not to drink 332 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 2: during July. 333 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: Is that right? Or can you give me some more 334 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: information about what it actually is. 335 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 3: Drive Lie is a fantastic initiative. There's a range of 336 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: them across the year, and we're really supportive of these 337 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 3: movements because it really does give people the opportunity to 338 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 3: stop drinking for a month. You can bypasses if you 339 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 3: have an event that comes up in the month, so 340 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: it's not a strict no one's going to monitor you 341 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 3: and ping you if you don't. But it's a great 342 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 3: way to raise money. So ultimately, people who participate in 343 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 3: the challenge set up a page and it's all facilitated 344 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 3: through the drider Life website. The money goes towards cancer 345 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 3: preventional cancer treatment, which we know alcohol causes cancer. It's 346 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 3: a level one castingers. So I think it's a really 347 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 3: great marketing tool that is getting people to think about 348 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 3: their drinking by stopping and have that month off and 349 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 3: then raise some money for cancer. So all of these 350 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: things are great, but I think we would encourage people 351 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 3: who are stopping to maybe consider how good life is 352 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: without alcohol so much present in your life. Because we 353 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 3: know from the experience of more and more New Zealanders 354 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 3: are choosing to drink this or not drinking. And everyone 355 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: I've talked to who's doing that, So that the benefits 356 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 3: just keep rolling in, better sleep, better productivity, They get 357 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 3: up and go to the gym, they lose less days. 358 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 3: You know a lot of times if you are a 359 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 3: heavy drinker, you'll lose days where you're hungover and you're 360 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,959 Speaker 3: probably eating terrible food as a result. The compounding effect 361 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 3: of alcohol and people's lives is immense, and I think 362 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 3: when you take that break, you can go. Actually, even 363 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 3: if I continue drinking, but I do so in a 364 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 3: less harmful way, that's a net positive result for New Zealand. 365 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Andrew. That's it for this episode 366 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: of the Front Page. 367 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 2: You can read more about today's stories and extensive news 368 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: coverage at enzad Herald dot. 369 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: Co dot z. 370 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Seals with sound 371 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 2: engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front 372 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 2: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 373 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.