1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440
Speaker 1: Right open to Rod Little in Britain. Morning to you, Mike,

2
00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,280
Speaker 1: Good Mike, How does this we played clips earlier on

3
00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: bed Knock v. Starma Stamer v. Bed Knock in the

4
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,400
Speaker 1: House over the winter fuel payment back down. How ultimately

5
00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,840
Speaker 1: does this play out politically for him?

6
00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,560
Speaker 2: I think it's less helpful to Starmer the if he

7
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 2: thinks it is. It would have been fine if the

8
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 2: winter fuel payments had been paid back in October November

9
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,760
Speaker 2: last year or agreed to be paid. But reinstating them

10
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,560
Speaker 2: aide us likely to defeat for Starma and doesn't really

11
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 2: get him any quedos as being kindly towards the pensions

12
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,520
Speaker 2: because he stopped them in the first place. So there's

13
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,360
Speaker 2: a real problem there, and that same problem will be

14
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,280
Speaker 2: there if he tries to backtrack on benefit cuts as well.

15
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:51,159
Speaker 2: For disability benefits. There is not a huge amount politically

16
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 2: to be gained whatever. Leaving aside here, Mike, what is

17
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 2: the right thing to do? As ever that there is

18
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,280
Speaker 2: no great political gains from backtracking on stuff which he

19
00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 2: already made the decision about because he has seemed to

20
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,040
Speaker 2: be wrong. You know, it is a it's a difficult

21
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:09,760
Speaker 2: position for it.

22
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,920
Speaker 1: How do I find the money, because I'm reading about

23
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 1: the hit room the other day, and this is Rachel

24
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,800
Speaker 1: Reeves and whatever you call your offer, and we call

25
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,280
Speaker 1: it the treasury. The Treasury gives advice and goes, well, listen,

26
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 1: under the current bill you're paying, you borrow too much,

27
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,680
Speaker 1: you can't afford any more. Where do they get the

28
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:23,320
Speaker 1: billions for this?

29
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,119
Speaker 2: I don't know, is the answer, and I don't think

30
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,280
Speaker 2: they know either. It's the Office for a Budget Responsibility

31
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 2: over here, but also the Treasury. Of course, it's a

32
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 2: mystery to me, and it's a mystery to me, and

33
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,720
Speaker 2: I think it is a mystery to Kiss star War

34
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,280
Speaker 2: and indeed Rachel Reeves as to where they're going to

35
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 2: get the money for this much vaunted, huge expansion in

36
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 2: defense expenditure, which at first took Keir Starman said was

37
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 2: going to be three percent by the end of this

38
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 2: parliamentary term, and then changed his mind, backtracked, obfiscated, hopped

39
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,360
Speaker 2: around a bit and said definitely three percent, but I'm

40
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 2: not going to tell you when it's just pathetic. So

41
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 2: there's a real problem with defense expenditure, especially as you

42
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,640
Speaker 2: know NATO is expecting us to raise it, not manly

43
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 2: to three percent to three point five percentage, so's he's

44
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,000
Speaker 2: caught on a number of issues, all the consequence of

45
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 2: a lack of cloth in the economy, a lack of

46
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,600
Speaker 2: money in the economy, and a black hole in the finances.

47
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 1: It's funny you should meet Well, it's not funny. I

48
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 1: mean it was overnight and we featured this as well,

49
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 1: this meeting that was held about Ukraine. Yet again the

50
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,400
Speaker 1: Germans seemed very robust about me and IDA support. And

51
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,160
Speaker 1: you need to spend some more money and we're all

52
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,840
Speaker 1: heading towards five percent. How does all of this so

53
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: you spend on defense? Is that for you? And is

54
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 1: that separate to the money you might give to Ukraine

55
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 1: to go buy some more drones to bomb some more bridges.

56
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely not clear the theory. It should be for us.

57
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,400
Speaker 2: And look, the Ukrainian money is separate to that. He

58
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 2: is already by the way, you know, a long time

59
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 2: ago suggested that they cut into the overseas a budget

60
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 2: to take it up by the money which we're spent

61
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 2: on Ukraine, which is over seas eight of course, but no,

62
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 2: we're apparently buying loads nuclear subs to carry nukes around

63
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,079
Speaker 2: the world. I don't know how modern money is. I'm

64
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,440
Speaker 2: not a military expert, but that seems to be the plan.

65
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,799
Speaker 2: So that is where the vast bulk of the money

66
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 2: coming from those promised additions to the defense budget will

67
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 2: be spent. I would rather it was spent on, you know,

68
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 2: the rather more savvy counter espionage, which we're suffering very

69
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 2: much every week over here from either Russia or China

70
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 2: or a combination of the two, in cyber crime, in

71
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 2: disruption of industry, etc. Etc.

72
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 1: It's funny should say that I forgot to mention a

73
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 1: couple of days ago to you, but you're this fourth.

74
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 1: I've got now four people sitting fire to Kostama's houses

75
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 1: and cows and stuff like that. I mean four people

76
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 1: that are all Ukraine. And you're right, I mean, clearly

77
00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 1: there's something abnormal about.

78
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 2: All the same there is something deeply abnormal about it.

79
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 2: There was actually three Ukrainians and run Room Median and

80
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 2: of course Rumedia as well is right up there on

81
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:18,160
Speaker 2: that border, and Roumania is where quite a large number

82
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,919
Speaker 2: of the Russian hackers have been based for quite a

83
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:27,920
Speaker 2: long time. That it seems I cannot work out what

84
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,039
Speaker 2: could possibly be the motive for this without Russia's direct involvement.

85
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,440
Speaker 2: I just cannot work out what the motive could be.

86
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,920
Speaker 2: These werefore as we call them colloquially over here, rent

87
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,400
Speaker 2: boys who suddenly decided to step out of the Prime

88
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 2: Minister's house. Why did they decide to do that? You know,

89
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 2: it is it almost beggers belief that it is not

90
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,520
Speaker 2: in some way masterminded from beyond.

91
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,599
Speaker 1: All right, man, you go, well, we'll catch up next week.

92
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 1: Rod A Little out of Britain.

93
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 2: US.

94
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

95
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,039
Speaker 1: Used to bok s at B from six am weekdays,

96
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,280
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio