1 00:00:06,815 --> 00:00:10,655 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter Wolfcamp 2 00:00:10,895 --> 00:00:11,975 Speaker 1: from News Talks. 3 00:00:11,695 --> 00:00:15,295 Speaker 2: At Bay right this morning. On the program, I mentioned 4 00:00:15,295 --> 00:00:19,095 Speaker 2: earlier a couple of weeks months ago Ralph Kessel from 5 00:00:19,135 --> 00:00:21,575 Speaker 2: Concrete New Zealand joined us and it was a great 6 00:00:21,575 --> 00:00:24,535 Speaker 2: interview then, and it's a fairly big topic, so I thought, 7 00:00:24,535 --> 00:00:27,375 Speaker 2: well let's get Ralph back and it despite great pleasure 8 00:00:27,695 --> 00:00:30,215 Speaker 2: to welcome back to the program. Ralph Kessel. Good morning 9 00:00:30,255 --> 00:00:30,535 Speaker 2: to you. 10 00:00:31,295 --> 00:00:33,415 Speaker 3: Yeah, good morning, Pete. Thanks for having me again. 11 00:00:33,615 --> 00:00:39,215 Speaker 2: It's a pleasure. Hey, look just quickly, Concrete en z 12 00:00:39,735 --> 00:00:42,255 Speaker 2: what is it? What does that body represent? 13 00:00:43,455 --> 00:00:46,055 Speaker 3: So we are the organ speaking for concrete, so we 14 00:00:46,175 --> 00:00:50,535 Speaker 3: ensure that concrete is used as the best possibilities for 15 00:00:50,775 --> 00:00:57,215 Speaker 3: on revealing this. So we also look after the education 16 00:00:57,415 --> 00:01:04,015 Speaker 3: in parts of education for ter free education, institute, universities, 17 00:01:04,575 --> 00:01:09,415 Speaker 3: but also building or fishers, the building force on the ground, 18 00:01:09,455 --> 00:01:14,335 Speaker 3: so we have a lot of courses for construction workers, 19 00:01:14,375 --> 00:01:18,655 Speaker 3: for technicians, et cetera. So basically we are the organ 20 00:01:18,815 --> 00:01:23,935 Speaker 3: representing concrete all over all over the place is if. 21 00:01:23,855 --> 00:01:26,135 Speaker 2: You want so, right, So it's sort of like the 22 00:01:26,175 --> 00:01:30,415 Speaker 2: manufacturers as well as the users and ensuring that the 23 00:01:30,495 --> 00:01:32,535 Speaker 2: standards are maintained as well, so that's why you're in 24 00:01:32,575 --> 00:01:33,375 Speaker 2: the training space. 25 00:01:33,935 --> 00:01:38,175 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely standards as well. We have sector groups Amazonry Block, 26 00:01:38,575 --> 00:01:42,055 Speaker 3: sector groups of Cement Group. We have also a Learned 27 00:01:42,095 --> 00:01:48,535 Speaker 3: Society where we combine the knowledge of practicing engineers and architects. 28 00:01:48,975 --> 00:01:53,735 Speaker 3: So we are definitely an all around tool for concrete 29 00:01:53,775 --> 00:01:54,495 Speaker 3: if you want so. 30 00:01:55,055 --> 00:01:59,375 Speaker 2: Right, excellent Now, one of the things that I was 31 00:01:59,495 --> 00:02:02,295 Speaker 2: quite keen to talk about, and we've we've I've invited 32 00:02:02,295 --> 00:02:04,615 Speaker 2: people to send some Texan so we might do some 33 00:02:04,735 --> 00:02:08,495 Speaker 2: general Q and A with a whole random selection of 34 00:02:08,535 --> 00:02:10,935 Speaker 2: texts if we have time this morning. But one of 35 00:02:10,975 --> 00:02:13,815 Speaker 2: the things that I guess has been a debate for 36 00:02:13,895 --> 00:02:18,135 Speaker 2: a number of years is as we move as a sector, 37 00:02:18,255 --> 00:02:21,695 Speaker 2: the construction sector in general wants to move to a 38 00:02:21,775 --> 00:02:27,895 Speaker 2: lower carbon future, right, And one of the criticisms and 39 00:02:27,975 --> 00:02:30,535 Speaker 2: sometimes you talk to people who are really really passionate 40 00:02:30,535 --> 00:02:35,615 Speaker 2: about sustainability and protecting the environment and they look at 41 00:02:35,615 --> 00:02:39,495 Speaker 2: concrete and they go, it's just got too much embodied 42 00:02:39,535 --> 00:02:43,215 Speaker 2: carbon because of its manufacturer. And I'm not going to 43 00:02:43,295 --> 00:02:47,415 Speaker 2: use concrete because I want a sustainable building. That's probably 44 00:02:47,535 --> 00:02:50,895 Speaker 2: you've probably been bailed up at conferences and so on 45 00:02:51,215 --> 00:02:55,335 Speaker 2: where people want to challenge concrete. The other part of 46 00:02:55,335 --> 00:02:58,655 Speaker 2: that is that the way in which concrete is manufactured 47 00:02:59,175 --> 00:03:04,055 Speaker 2: today with the various components, there are some changes there. 48 00:03:04,175 --> 00:03:06,655 Speaker 2: So when you see an ad that said is this 49 00:03:06,735 --> 00:03:10,055 Speaker 2: is a low carbon concrete, what are they talking about. 50 00:03:11,335 --> 00:03:14,935 Speaker 3: Well, what I have mentioned in the last interview that 51 00:03:15,095 --> 00:03:19,055 Speaker 3: we must look at replacing cement because cement is the culbrat. 52 00:03:19,135 --> 00:03:25,215 Speaker 3: Cement about eighty five percent emissions of the total of concrete. 53 00:03:25,575 --> 00:03:29,655 Speaker 3: And here we replace cement with substitutes such as fly 54 00:03:29,815 --> 00:03:37,735 Speaker 3: ash and volcanic ash which is a natural product, but 55 00:03:37,895 --> 00:03:40,815 Speaker 3: also slack, which is a reminder from steel production. So 56 00:03:41,455 --> 00:03:44,335 Speaker 3: the byproducts from industry would other guys otherwise go to 57 00:03:44,455 --> 00:03:48,015 Speaker 3: land field, but we chuck it in the concrete and 58 00:03:48,135 --> 00:03:53,695 Speaker 3: reduce the emissions significantly. But what we also see there 59 00:03:53,695 --> 00:03:57,455 Speaker 3: has been further progress in reducing the emissions to the 60 00:03:57,495 --> 00:04:01,455 Speaker 3: benefit of all listeners. Structural concrete is always reinforced, usually 61 00:04:01,495 --> 00:04:05,815 Speaker 3: with steel bars. Why is it. Concrete performs well under 62 00:04:05,815 --> 00:04:09,095 Speaker 3: compression but poorly intentioned. So steel, on the other hand, 63 00:04:09,135 --> 00:04:13,855 Speaker 3: performs very well intension. So we combine those two materials 64 00:04:14,335 --> 00:04:19,695 Speaker 3: and so a structural concrete building always has steel reinforcement, 65 00:04:19,775 --> 00:04:23,655 Speaker 3: and until recently, the carbon footprint of steel was significant, 66 00:04:23,775 --> 00:04:28,055 Speaker 3: about four ton of carbon dioxide per ton of steel, 67 00:04:28,615 --> 00:04:31,855 Speaker 3: when concrete comes with just eighty two hundred kilogram of 68 00:04:31,935 --> 00:04:36,335 Speaker 3: carbon dioxide pertons. But New Zealand Steel has now built 69 00:04:36,375 --> 00:04:39,375 Speaker 3: a new electric arc furnace. Not sure if you're thurden 70 00:04:39,455 --> 00:04:43,975 Speaker 3: through the media, yeah, and that enables the production of 71 00:04:44,015 --> 00:04:47,495 Speaker 3: low carbon steel and as a result, the carbon footprint 72 00:04:47,535 --> 00:04:50,695 Speaker 3: of the rebar four concrete can be reduced from around 73 00:04:50,735 --> 00:04:54,015 Speaker 3: four toon to five hundred kilogram. 74 00:04:55,535 --> 00:04:59,455 Speaker 2: So because numbers like that, you know, sometimes they tend 75 00:04:59,495 --> 00:05:01,495 Speaker 2: to we hear them in the it's in one ear 76 00:05:01,535 --> 00:05:03,495 Speaker 2: and out the other. But what you're saying there is 77 00:05:03,975 --> 00:05:08,855 Speaker 2: four tons, so four thousand kilo to five hundred. 78 00:05:09,175 --> 00:05:12,175 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, But I think it's important to put this 79 00:05:12,255 --> 00:05:16,055 Speaker 3: into perspective. So in a typical concrete slab on grade, 80 00:05:16,655 --> 00:05:19,975 Speaker 3: steel accounts for only about let's say five percent of 81 00:05:20,175 --> 00:05:23,975 Speaker 3: the volume and concrete is ninety five to ninety six. 82 00:05:24,615 --> 00:05:29,495 Speaker 3: But nevertheless, under previous production methods with the old FORG 83 00:05:30,455 --> 00:05:34,975 Speaker 3: for ton, approximately two thirds of the embodied emissions of 84 00:05:35,095 --> 00:05:38,375 Speaker 3: reinforced concrete came from the steel and only one third 85 00:05:38,575 --> 00:05:43,615 Speaker 3: from the concrete itself, but by reducing steel emissions by 86 00:05:43,655 --> 00:05:49,455 Speaker 3: about eighty seven percent, the overall emissions of reinforced concrete 87 00:05:49,495 --> 00:05:53,575 Speaker 3: can be reduced by fifty to sixty percent. So looking 88 00:05:53,615 --> 00:05:56,815 Speaker 3: at a thirty the MPa concrete, that will reduce the 89 00:05:56,855 --> 00:05:59,695 Speaker 3: emissions per cubic meter from around five hundred and fifty 90 00:05:59,775 --> 00:06:03,095 Speaker 3: kilogram to two hundred and fifty kilogram, and these values 91 00:06:03,135 --> 00:06:06,615 Speaker 3: are comparable to the emissions of timber the cub meter. 92 00:06:06,775 --> 00:06:11,855 Speaker 3: If biogenic carbon is excluded right now should possibly explain 93 00:06:11,895 --> 00:06:16,215 Speaker 3: what biogenic carbon is. The biogenic carbon refers to carbon 94 00:06:16,335 --> 00:06:20,815 Speaker 3: temporarily stored in materials like timber. So there's a chemical 95 00:06:20,895 --> 00:06:24,735 Speaker 3: process that the carbon dioxide is taken up by the timber, 96 00:06:24,855 --> 00:06:28,455 Speaker 3: by the cells, and it says, but this storage is 97 00:06:28,495 --> 00:06:32,455 Speaker 3: short term. Once the material decays or is burned, the 98 00:06:32,495 --> 00:06:36,095 Speaker 3: carbon is released back into the atmosphere. So we're talking 99 00:06:36,175 --> 00:06:39,695 Speaker 3: about the end of life of the building. Maybe after 100 00:06:39,895 --> 00:06:43,335 Speaker 3: twenty maybe after fifty or after sixty years, that carbon 101 00:06:43,375 --> 00:06:48,615 Speaker 3: will be released back into the atmosphere. And concrete, by contrast, 102 00:06:48,815 --> 00:06:54,295 Speaker 3: is recognized by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 103 00:06:54,375 --> 00:06:59,455 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, can store carbon permanently through carbonations so 104 00:06:59,535 --> 00:07:05,135 Speaker 3: the carbon dioxide reacts with calcium and oxygen to form 105 00:07:06,015 --> 00:07:09,655 Speaker 3: club to carbonate, which is limestone, so which locks the 106 00:07:09,735 --> 00:07:12,335 Speaker 3: carbon into the material for the long term. This is 107 00:07:12,375 --> 00:07:16,095 Speaker 3: not that much, but it's better than nothing. And with 108 00:07:16,215 --> 00:07:22,615 Speaker 3: this combination of cement replacement, low carbon steel and natural carbonation, 109 00:07:23,415 --> 00:07:27,615 Speaker 3: we are definitely certain we get to carbon netcover zero 110 00:07:27,695 --> 00:07:33,175 Speaker 3: by twenty fifty with So that's our vision. And also 111 00:07:33,255 --> 00:07:36,255 Speaker 3: coming back to your earlier question, what is concrete New Zealand, 112 00:07:36,335 --> 00:07:42,575 Speaker 3: we also have brought together all our concrete manufacturers to 113 00:07:43,975 --> 00:07:47,255 Speaker 3: assign up to this vision. And maybe one important thing 114 00:07:47,255 --> 00:07:51,415 Speaker 3: I've forgot asked what's concrete the Zealand And we have 115 00:07:51,735 --> 00:07:55,375 Speaker 3: also the Concrete New Zealand Planted Audit Scheme. So what 116 00:07:55,535 --> 00:07:58,335 Speaker 3: many people may not know is that the majority of 117 00:07:58,375 --> 00:08:03,295 Speaker 3: concrete New Zealand is independently checked through this plant Audit scheme. 118 00:08:03,415 --> 00:08:08,375 Speaker 3: So through us concrete reduced by our members is regular 119 00:08:08,495 --> 00:08:13,135 Speaker 3: tested under the scheme, which gives the engineers the certainty 120 00:08:13,335 --> 00:08:17,935 Speaker 3: that the concrete is as specified. So otherwise you would 121 00:08:17,975 --> 00:08:21,175 Speaker 3: be exposed to a costly and time consuming audit for 122 00:08:21,295 --> 00:08:24,975 Speaker 3: concrete quality to each thing a project. So in simple terms, 123 00:08:25,015 --> 00:08:28,335 Speaker 3: the scheme gives you confidence that the concrete supplied will 124 00:08:28,375 --> 00:08:31,895 Speaker 3: perform as specified. At the moment, there are two hundred 125 00:08:32,575 --> 00:08:37,255 Speaker 3: plans nationwide signed up to the scheme. And yes, this 126 00:08:37,375 --> 00:08:39,775 Speaker 3: is also a very important part we do as cong 127 00:08:39,935 --> 00:08:43,015 Speaker 3: New Zealand. We check our members, We check the quality. 128 00:08:44,295 --> 00:08:47,095 Speaker 2: Which I think is actually you know, because often we 129 00:08:47,215 --> 00:08:51,775 Speaker 2: find that that companies with greatest respect will make claims right, 130 00:08:51,975 --> 00:08:55,295 Speaker 2: you know, this product performs this way, or it's of 131 00:08:55,375 --> 00:09:01,135 Speaker 2: the standard, or it has this environmental you know, qualification 132 00:09:01,295 --> 00:09:04,535 Speaker 2: to it, and then you go so prove it and 133 00:09:05,495 --> 00:09:08,935 Speaker 2: sometimes it's like, actually, we can't really prove it. And 134 00:09:08,975 --> 00:09:11,615 Speaker 2: what you're saying is in terms of you know, because 135 00:09:11,655 --> 00:09:14,855 Speaker 2: in the end concrete we often use. This is just 136 00:09:14,895 --> 00:09:17,735 Speaker 2: from a practical point of view. You know that it's 137 00:09:17,775 --> 00:09:21,375 Speaker 2: often the foundation of many buildings, right, so if as 138 00:09:21,415 --> 00:09:23,455 Speaker 2: a carpenter, I might take care of all of the 139 00:09:23,495 --> 00:09:26,175 Speaker 2: timber work above it, but I need to know and 140 00:09:26,215 --> 00:09:28,135 Speaker 2: my clients need to know that the concrete that went 141 00:09:28,175 --> 00:09:31,175 Speaker 2: into the foundations and the slab is going to be 142 00:09:32,335 --> 00:09:34,055 Speaker 2: is going to perform as we expect it to in 143 00:09:34,135 --> 00:09:36,335 Speaker 2: terms of strength and durability and so on. 144 00:09:37,135 --> 00:09:41,095 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're absolutely right, So that relates to the quality. 145 00:09:41,255 --> 00:09:46,695 Speaker 3: But that also relates to the claims we we spread 146 00:09:46,735 --> 00:09:53,015 Speaker 3: in regards to carbon emissions. Sure, so the carbon emission claims, 147 00:09:53,055 --> 00:09:58,375 Speaker 3: they are supported by EPDs, so called environmental product declarations, 148 00:09:58,415 --> 00:10:06,895 Speaker 3: which are a third party, independent, third party checked statements data. 149 00:10:07,855 --> 00:10:11,335 Speaker 3: So epeds not only cover carbon dioxide, but they cover 150 00:10:11,815 --> 00:10:15,255 Speaker 3: all kinds of gases because we have to consider we 151 00:10:15,375 --> 00:10:20,855 Speaker 3: have to see the environment holistically, so we have to 152 00:10:20,895 --> 00:10:25,615 Speaker 3: think of biodiversity. There are other gases which are maybe 153 00:10:25,655 --> 00:10:29,815 Speaker 3: not bad or not contributing to climate change, but they 154 00:10:29,855 --> 00:10:33,775 Speaker 3: would be bad for our respiratory ragons, you know. So, 155 00:10:34,695 --> 00:10:38,535 Speaker 3: and most of the gases are covered in EPDs. There 156 00:10:38,535 --> 00:10:43,655 Speaker 3: are several countries companies in the country who are able 157 00:10:43,735 --> 00:10:48,575 Speaker 3: to conduct these right, and it's also verified, And you're 158 00:10:48,575 --> 00:10:54,495 Speaker 3: absolutely right, it has to be scientifically proven that our 159 00:10:54,575 --> 00:10:59,615 Speaker 3: claims are true and hold up to scrutinity. 160 00:10:59,655 --> 00:11:01,935 Speaker 2: Absolutely, We're going to take a break in a moment, 161 00:11:02,015 --> 00:11:04,215 Speaker 2: but before we do, the thought that's in my mind 162 00:11:04,295 --> 00:11:07,375 Speaker 2: is also, you know, a big part of of sustainability 163 00:11:07,535 --> 00:11:11,135 Speaker 2: is around controlling waste, and so I've got two quick 164 00:11:11,175 --> 00:11:14,855 Speaker 2: questions on that. One is, you know, let's say you've 165 00:11:15,335 --> 00:11:18,055 Speaker 2: ordered some concrete, you've done the drive and then you 166 00:11:18,175 --> 00:11:21,535 Speaker 2: realize that you didn't quite need as much as you needed, 167 00:11:21,575 --> 00:11:24,455 Speaker 2: and so there's half a cubic meter or so still 168 00:11:24,575 --> 00:11:27,335 Speaker 2: left in the truck. What happens to that when it 169 00:11:27,375 --> 00:11:29,535 Speaker 2: goes back to the plant, Like, is any of that 170 00:11:29,655 --> 00:11:33,415 Speaker 2: able to be not reused because obviously it's going to 171 00:11:33,495 --> 00:11:35,895 Speaker 2: go off, but the aggregate that's in there and that 172 00:11:35,935 --> 00:11:38,495 Speaker 2: sort of thing, what happens there is that just waste 173 00:11:38,895 --> 00:11:40,975 Speaker 2: or is it able to be reused in some way? 174 00:11:41,695 --> 00:11:44,615 Speaker 3: Well, in the past it has been waste. But since 175 00:11:44,655 --> 00:11:50,055 Speaker 3: the last six to seven years, and we have measures 176 00:11:50,095 --> 00:11:53,855 Speaker 3: to take the left of a concrete yes, and they 177 00:11:53,895 --> 00:11:59,215 Speaker 3: are basically cast into forms, and the result is we 178 00:11:59,335 --> 00:12:01,255 Speaker 3: have large, maybe oversized blocks. 179 00:12:01,335 --> 00:12:01,575 Speaker 1: Yep. 180 00:12:01,735 --> 00:12:05,135 Speaker 3: It's going to be reduced for coastal production, but also 181 00:12:05,215 --> 00:12:07,255 Speaker 3: for organizing a young out on the farm where I 182 00:12:07,415 --> 00:12:11,535 Speaker 3: just want to have your you know, storage sorted that 183 00:12:11,655 --> 00:12:18,095 Speaker 3: has been done. And because the architect or engineer or 184 00:12:18,095 --> 00:12:22,135 Speaker 3: build our contract or whatever need enough concrete on site, 185 00:12:22,175 --> 00:12:25,055 Speaker 3: they always order a little bit more, yep, a little 186 00:12:25,095 --> 00:12:28,775 Speaker 3: bit of surplus to not run out of concrete suddenly. 187 00:12:28,815 --> 00:12:33,215 Speaker 3: So there's always a leftover and our plans have take 188 00:12:33,295 --> 00:12:37,615 Speaker 3: the necessary steps and yeah, all the leftovers maybe cards 189 00:12:37,615 --> 00:12:39,575 Speaker 3: into forms back on the plant. 190 00:12:40,735 --> 00:12:40,975 Speaker 1: Right. 191 00:12:41,055 --> 00:12:44,015 Speaker 2: Well that's and actually it's a bigger question than we've 192 00:12:44,015 --> 00:12:45,935 Speaker 2: got time for right now, So take a short break. 193 00:12:46,575 --> 00:12:48,215 Speaker 2: I want to look at sort of end of life, 194 00:12:48,335 --> 00:12:50,255 Speaker 2: what we might be able to do with concrete end 195 00:12:50,255 --> 00:12:52,655 Speaker 2: of life. So Ralph Kessel from Concrete, New Zealand is 196 00:12:52,695 --> 00:12:55,175 Speaker 2: my guest this morning. It is eight point twenty with 197 00:12:55,215 --> 00:12:58,655 Speaker 2: news Talk set B so joining me this morning, Genus 198 00:12:58,655 --> 00:13:01,535 Speaker 2: with his time this morning, Ralph Kessel from Concrete, New Zealand. 199 00:13:02,415 --> 00:13:05,135 Speaker 2: Thanks again for joining us. Now I'll try and hit 200 00:13:05,135 --> 00:13:06,655 Speaker 2: a couple of texts in a minute. But the other 201 00:13:07,215 --> 00:13:10,135 Speaker 2: thing that I think has been an interesting change is 202 00:13:11,575 --> 00:13:16,255 Speaker 2: in a sense the recycling reuse of left either demolition, 203 00:13:16,415 --> 00:13:21,375 Speaker 2: concrete or ensan. So are we seeing more providers being 204 00:13:21,415 --> 00:13:26,935 Speaker 2: able to accept demolition material. You know, I've cut up 205 00:13:27,015 --> 00:13:29,375 Speaker 2: part of a driveway and I need to dispose of that. 206 00:13:30,295 --> 00:13:33,615 Speaker 2: Whereas it used to go just hard fill to landfill, 207 00:13:34,015 --> 00:13:36,055 Speaker 2: it's now being repurposed. 208 00:13:37,735 --> 00:13:42,655 Speaker 3: Yes, there are definitely schemes in place and being Auckland 209 00:13:43,175 --> 00:13:45,895 Speaker 3: Green Gorilla for example, it's one or larger. They take 210 00:13:46,295 --> 00:13:50,135 Speaker 3: conc they get to take construction waste, and amongst that 211 00:13:50,215 --> 00:13:54,095 Speaker 3: there's concrete waste, and as I mentioned in my last 212 00:13:54,135 --> 00:13:57,375 Speaker 3: interview that the bulk of it will be used for hardfire, 213 00:13:57,455 --> 00:14:03,455 Speaker 3: for drainable backfill around properties, et cetera. But were just 214 00:14:03,615 --> 00:14:12,455 Speaker 3: ending with ways management before the break and so the 215 00:14:12,575 --> 00:14:20,495 Speaker 3: use of repurposed demolition waste and also less over cars 216 00:14:20,495 --> 00:14:23,735 Speaker 3: into blocks, it doesn't end there. So we have to 217 00:14:23,775 --> 00:14:26,895 Speaker 3: look at the production of concrete as well, where we 218 00:14:27,055 --> 00:14:30,775 Speaker 3: have a lot of heat to generate for the kill. 219 00:14:31,055 --> 00:14:33,375 Speaker 3: That's actually where the emissions come from, from the kiln, 220 00:14:33,455 --> 00:14:38,055 Speaker 3: from the process where we manufacture the cement. So the 221 00:14:38,095 --> 00:14:41,815 Speaker 3: one part of the emissions comes from a chemical process 222 00:14:41,815 --> 00:14:44,215 Speaker 3: within the kill when we separate the line from the 223 00:14:44,255 --> 00:14:48,255 Speaker 3: limestone to gain the cement, and the other part is 224 00:14:48,415 --> 00:14:51,975 Speaker 3: the fossil fuel coal which we use to heat the 225 00:14:52,055 --> 00:14:55,495 Speaker 3: kilns up to fourteen hundred degrees. And here we use 226 00:14:55,655 --> 00:14:59,695 Speaker 3: now waste materials as well for heating the kilden. The 227 00:14:59,695 --> 00:15:02,935 Speaker 3: first one is waste timber and the second one is 228 00:15:02,975 --> 00:15:08,215 Speaker 3: actually old car tires. And I recall that I think 229 00:15:08,255 --> 00:15:11,015 Speaker 3: you may have heard about that the bulk of old 230 00:15:11,175 --> 00:15:13,895 Speaker 3: characterires in New Zealand is used by the cement industry 231 00:15:14,295 --> 00:15:17,655 Speaker 3: where they replace the coal as a fuel. This scheme 232 00:15:17,735 --> 00:15:22,175 Speaker 3: has also reduced illegal tire dumpig buy around fifty percent. 233 00:15:23,655 --> 00:15:26,535 Speaker 3: And I should mention that our cemental industry has gas 234 00:15:26,575 --> 00:15:30,815 Speaker 3: cleaning filter systems in place to manage all emissions responsibly. 235 00:15:31,015 --> 00:15:35,135 Speaker 3: So there's a lot going on in achieving also not 236 00:15:35,375 --> 00:15:38,455 Speaker 3: just CARBN zero by twenty fifty, but also to achieve 237 00:15:38,495 --> 00:15:43,535 Speaker 3: a fully operating circular economy within the concrete industry. 238 00:15:44,615 --> 00:15:47,215 Speaker 2: Because sometimes people will ask, well, if I you know 239 00:15:47,775 --> 00:15:49,815 Speaker 2: there used to be a quarry near me that would 240 00:15:49,895 --> 00:15:54,455 Speaker 2: take you know, liftover concrete or waste concrete. You cut 241 00:15:54,535 --> 00:15:56,415 Speaker 2: up a driveway, put it on the trailer, dump it 242 00:15:56,455 --> 00:15:58,655 Speaker 2: there they'd seen it through the crusher and turn it 243 00:15:58,695 --> 00:16:02,575 Speaker 2: into hard filt, which was great because there is a 244 00:16:02,695 --> 00:16:08,295 Speaker 2: challenge with the idea of crushing used concrete and reusing 245 00:16:08,335 --> 00:16:10,655 Speaker 2: the aggregate and new concrete, isn't there. 246 00:16:11,855 --> 00:16:14,415 Speaker 3: Yes, that can be done as well, but you have 247 00:16:14,455 --> 00:16:18,935 Speaker 3: to be careful once if you don't know the original 248 00:16:18,975 --> 00:16:23,375 Speaker 3: location or source of that aggregaty, it may be more 249 00:16:23,415 --> 00:16:26,415 Speaker 3: difficult to understand the final quality and maybe even the 250 00:16:26,415 --> 00:16:29,975 Speaker 3: compressive strength, which we have to test anyway. But so 251 00:16:30,175 --> 00:16:32,975 Speaker 3: it's important that you know the source of the aggregot, 252 00:16:33,255 --> 00:16:39,655 Speaker 3: and it's also time consuming and energy consuming to get 253 00:16:40,135 --> 00:16:43,535 Speaker 3: just really the pebbles and the aggregots away from some 254 00:16:43,695 --> 00:16:48,615 Speaker 3: smontitious parts. So that's not ideals. So what we see 255 00:16:48,615 --> 00:16:52,975 Speaker 3: more and more is that the concrete demolition wave is 256 00:16:53,055 --> 00:16:56,695 Speaker 3: crushed and then used for for backfield under rolling and 257 00:16:57,255 --> 00:17:02,175 Speaker 3: around also for coastal protection partly. So there are lots 258 00:17:02,215 --> 00:17:03,935 Speaker 3: of things happening. 259 00:17:04,615 --> 00:17:07,575 Speaker 2: And I guess what that does is substitutes, let's say, 260 00:17:07,655 --> 00:17:11,415 Speaker 2: virgin material, you know, from a quarry going directly from 261 00:17:11,455 --> 00:17:13,775 Speaker 2: a quarry to just being the base course that my 262 00:17:13,895 --> 00:17:19,095 Speaker 2: driveway sits on. I'm better off using crush concrete recycled 263 00:17:19,695 --> 00:17:20,895 Speaker 2: for that type of purpose. 264 00:17:21,335 --> 00:17:26,615 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean the recycled material that's all very 265 00:17:26,615 --> 00:17:30,975 Speaker 3: professionally done. It will will be run through sieves so 266 00:17:31,095 --> 00:17:34,695 Speaker 3: we get our gap sizes, whatever pebble sizes they need 267 00:17:35,215 --> 00:17:39,215 Speaker 3: for that project. So you can choose really from the 268 00:17:39,255 --> 00:17:43,695 Speaker 3: shelves that various gap sizes for your projects from recycled material. 269 00:17:44,015 --> 00:17:46,935 Speaker 3: That's definitely happening. But the other thing which you may 270 00:17:47,015 --> 00:17:52,215 Speaker 3: find interesting, that we see new construction ways and a 271 00:17:52,335 --> 00:17:54,255 Speaker 3: true if you heard about three D printing. 272 00:17:54,615 --> 00:17:57,215 Speaker 2: Yep, the factory. I've seen one of them. 273 00:17:57,295 --> 00:18:02,095 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yes, so, and that's three DE concrete printing is 274 00:18:02,135 --> 00:18:04,895 Speaker 3: definitely becoming more mainstream, at least in the US. 275 00:18:05,095 --> 00:18:05,415 Speaker 2: Sure. 276 00:18:05,735 --> 00:18:08,535 Speaker 3: Well, what we see there is that three D printed 277 00:18:08,575 --> 00:18:11,975 Speaker 3: homes are now cost neutral already or even cheaper than 278 00:18:12,015 --> 00:18:17,695 Speaker 3: timber framed houses. They're also popular because theyre withstand weather events, 279 00:18:17,775 --> 00:18:21,175 Speaker 3: which is becoming increasingly important. As a reminder, you may 280 00:18:21,255 --> 00:18:26,575 Speaker 3: just look outside of your window. They are wind and 281 00:18:27,135 --> 00:18:30,535 Speaker 3: noise resistant too, which you really notice on lust three days. 282 00:18:31,175 --> 00:18:34,935 Speaker 3: And then as climate change brings more fire risks, these 283 00:18:35,135 --> 00:18:41,735 Speaker 3: concrete houses are naturally fire resistant. We are for comparison, 284 00:18:41,735 --> 00:18:45,135 Speaker 3: one hundred millimeters concrete world gives you around sixty minutes 285 00:18:45,175 --> 00:18:49,415 Speaker 3: of fire resistant. Typically, structure wards are even thicker one 286 00:18:49,455 --> 00:18:52,135 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty millimeter, which gives you almost two hours. 287 00:18:52,415 --> 00:18:54,855 Speaker 3: So that gives people a good shelter and peace of 288 00:18:54,975 --> 00:18:59,815 Speaker 3: mind and also combating climate change. We shall use local materials, 289 00:19:00,255 --> 00:19:03,975 Speaker 3: so concrete is a local material. We don't have packaging. 290 00:19:04,455 --> 00:19:07,855 Speaker 3: There are no large shipping distances. 291 00:19:07,535 --> 00:19:09,215 Speaker 2: Right yeah. 292 00:19:09,215 --> 00:19:14,095 Speaker 3: So, and the other thing which I find, at least 293 00:19:14,135 --> 00:19:16,615 Speaker 3: in the US, that some people like to have a 294 00:19:16,615 --> 00:19:19,575 Speaker 3: distinctive home, and a three DEEP printed home is definitely 295 00:19:19,615 --> 00:19:22,815 Speaker 3: a very distinctive home. So this is another reason why 296 00:19:23,295 --> 00:19:26,455 Speaker 3: three D printed houses pick up in the US. So 297 00:19:26,575 --> 00:19:29,655 Speaker 3: in New Zealand at the moment there are so far 298 00:19:29,735 --> 00:19:34,015 Speaker 3: only four projects, including two in Auckland, two in Hamilton, 299 00:19:34,055 --> 00:19:36,815 Speaker 3: and one of them as a daycare center, so it 300 00:19:37,655 --> 00:19:41,335 Speaker 3: takes a better while until we get to that stage. 301 00:19:41,415 --> 00:19:46,055 Speaker 3: So the mix is always a little bit different, small viscous, 302 00:19:45,575 --> 00:19:52,095 Speaker 3: it has less, smaller aggregat to be fed into the 303 00:19:52,575 --> 00:19:56,335 Speaker 3: three D printer, et cetera. But I see that definitely coming. 304 00:19:56,455 --> 00:20:00,535 Speaker 3: And three D printing means less people on the ground, 305 00:20:00,575 --> 00:20:06,055 Speaker 3: but it also means less injuries, less health and safety 306 00:20:06,095 --> 00:20:10,935 Speaker 3: ri so just clean a building side. We will see 307 00:20:10,935 --> 00:20:13,855 Speaker 3: this in the future. It's not quite there where we 308 00:20:13,935 --> 00:20:17,135 Speaker 3: have it in the US and maybe other European countries. 309 00:20:17,895 --> 00:20:19,055 Speaker 3: It's definitely coming, and. 310 00:20:20,775 --> 00:20:23,615 Speaker 2: I've been lucky enough to visit the Auckland one and 311 00:20:23,935 --> 00:20:27,015 Speaker 2: one of the ones in Hamilton, so it is really 312 00:20:27,375 --> 00:20:30,535 Speaker 2: it's just that you know, we've got the space to go. Hey, 313 00:20:30,655 --> 00:20:32,935 Speaker 2: is there space for innovation and is there more than 314 00:20:33,055 --> 00:20:36,335 Speaker 2: just one way to do everything? You know? And I 315 00:20:36,335 --> 00:20:39,935 Speaker 2: think that's where it is really really exciting. Excuse me, 316 00:20:39,975 --> 00:20:42,975 Speaker 2: just before we go, I've got this text from Darren. Hey, 317 00:20:43,015 --> 00:20:46,775 Speaker 2: We've just purchased thirty of those leftover blocks, nine hundred 318 00:20:46,815 --> 00:20:48,815 Speaker 2: by nine hundred and nine hundred. They've got a lifting 319 00:20:48,815 --> 00:20:51,535 Speaker 2: hoc on them. We utilize them on the Farmer's Flood 320 00:20:51,535 --> 00:20:54,935 Speaker 2: Protection and bank Stabilization said. We paid ten bucks each 321 00:20:54,935 --> 00:20:57,735 Speaker 2: for them, which makes them very cost effective even after 322 00:20:57,815 --> 00:21:00,175 Speaker 2: the freight. So there you go. That's a classic example 323 00:21:00,175 --> 00:21:02,815 Speaker 2: of what you're saying. You know, trucks returning with some 324 00:21:02,855 --> 00:21:06,735 Speaker 2: surplus concrete gets poured into forms that then and it 325 00:21:07,575 --> 00:21:11,055 Speaker 2: goes out to farms and yards and storage facilities and 326 00:21:11,535 --> 00:21:15,975 Speaker 2: all sorts. So it is really I think it's I 327 00:21:16,015 --> 00:21:19,255 Speaker 2: think it's really exciting when an industry responds to the challenges. 328 00:21:20,415 --> 00:21:23,815 Speaker 2: And you know, in this sense, we all know for 329 00:21:23,975 --> 00:21:26,535 Speaker 2: very good reasons. We've got a concern around carbon and 330 00:21:26,575 --> 00:21:29,735 Speaker 2: the carbon used in construction and it's a huge part 331 00:21:29,775 --> 00:21:31,975 Speaker 2: of the amount of carbon that we use in New Zealand. Right, 332 00:21:32,295 --> 00:21:36,175 Speaker 2: so every part of the construction sector needs to address 333 00:21:36,215 --> 00:21:38,295 Speaker 2: it's the way in which it deals with that, and 334 00:21:38,295 --> 00:21:42,375 Speaker 2: obviously concrete New Zealand as part of that as well. Ralph, 335 00:21:42,615 --> 00:21:45,575 Speaker 2: I think we're going to get you back and have 336 00:21:45,935 --> 00:21:47,935 Speaker 2: a bit more of a chat in a couple of 337 00:21:47,935 --> 00:21:49,575 Speaker 2: weeks or a few months or so as well. But 338 00:21:49,935 --> 00:21:51,535 Speaker 2: my thanks to you for giving up mer time on 339 00:21:51,575 --> 00:21:54,015 Speaker 2: a Sunday morning. Really appreciate it this morning. 340 00:21:54,735 --> 00:21:56,455 Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Being lovely Journey. 341 00:21:56,935 --> 00:21:59,895 Speaker 1: For more from The Residence Builder with Peter Wolfcamp, listen 342 00:21:59,975 --> 00:22:02,815 Speaker 1: live to news talks that'd be on Sunday mornings from Sex, 343 00:22:03,095 --> 00:22:05,175 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.