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Speaker 1: And a bit of drama around the World Health Organization.

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Speaker 1: Following Donald Trump formally withdrawing the US from the WHO,

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Speaker 1: New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters is questioning whether the

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Speaker 1: New Zealand should maybe do the same. He says we

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Speaker 1: need to take quote a serious look where the taxpayers

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Speaker 1: money is being spent responsibly. The Prime ministers shut down

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Speaker 1: the suggestion, but sees the organization does need to function better.

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Speaker 1: University of Auckland professor and former director at the WHO,

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Speaker 1: doctor Rob Beaglehole is with us this evening. Kilder Rob.

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Speaker 2: Good even cure So just how.

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Speaker 1: Effective is the WHO well?

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Speaker 2: It has been extremely effective. It hasn't always performed as

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Speaker 2: well as we would like, but that in part is

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Speaker 2: a reflection of the where it works. But we absolutely

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Speaker 2: need WHO globally. New Zealand needs to be a part

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Speaker 2: of WHO.

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Speaker 1: So give us the cell the back of the envelope.

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Speaker 1: What does New Zealand get out of being in the

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Speaker 1: WHO well?

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Speaker 2: I think we get tremendous advice, support and the setting

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Speaker 2: of standards, advice on the best treatment, on how to prevention.

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Speaker 2: I think most importantly we get help in the prevention

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Speaker 2: of diseases and the promotion of health. We had a

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Speaker 2: terrible COVID epidemic. We'll have another pandemic inevitably, and the

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Speaker 2: only way to respond effectively, apart from closing borders for

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Speaker 2: a short time, is going to be to work with

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Speaker 2: other countries together. So diseases don't ignore, don't cross borders

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Speaker 2: without any question, and we need to work countries to

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Speaker 2: reduce the impact of all diseases, especially the next pandemic.

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Speaker 2: We need WHO to coordinate that response.

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Speaker 1: Does it represent good value for money?

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Speaker 2: I don't think it presents tremendously good value for money.

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Speaker 2: The overall budget is perhaps just over two billion dollars

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Speaker 2: a year. You could hardly run a decent hospital with

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Speaker 2: that amount of money. New Zealand's contribution on an annual

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Speaker 2: basis varies, but as in the order of a few million,

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Speaker 2: maybe three or four million dollars a year. It's peanuts

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Speaker 2: for what we get and we are contributing to the

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Speaker 2: reform of WHO. Mister Peters is absolutely right. It needs reform.

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Speaker 2: It needs to be working much more efficiently. It needs

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Speaker 2: to be more based at the country level, less intensively

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Speaker 2: based in Geneva. But we've got to be part of

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Speaker 2: the organization to make it work better, and without it

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Speaker 2: we'd have to create some other organization.

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Speaker 1: He essentially says that the WHO hasn't had a democratic

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Speaker 1: mandate for some of the things that it has pursued.

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Speaker 1: Is that a few criticism.

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Speaker 2: Well in the sense that WHO makes decisions based on

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Speaker 2: its membership in every country, no matter how big how small,

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Speaker 2: has one vote, So in that sense it's extremely democratic.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't report, of course to the taxpayers in New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: but it does report to our representatives at WHO, So

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Speaker 2: in some senses it's so democratic that it gets bogged

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Speaker 2: down in this discussions. But it couldn't be more democratic

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Speaker 2: in that sense. And New Zealand has been on the

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Speaker 2: executive board, and countries rotate through these governing positions, so

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Speaker 2: we do have an opportunity to influence all of the decisions.

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Speaker 1: Hey, we really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Rob.

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Speaker 1: That is doctor Rob Beagelholm, the University of Auckland Professor

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Speaker 1: emeritus of Community Health and former director at the WHO.

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Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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