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Speaker 1: Well, today's energy announcement has been labeled a damp squib, weak,

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Speaker 1: not bold, tinkering, short sighted, a missed opportunity. In short,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to find anyone who really rates it.

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Speaker 1: With their reaction. We have John Duffy, the CEO of

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Speaker 1: Consumer New Zealand, and Alan McDonald, the head of advocacy

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Speaker 1: for the Employers and Manufacturers Association. High lads, Hi, Hi John, Alan,

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Speaker 1: Do you like us?

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Speaker 2: No, it's thoroughly underwhelming. Really here the report, if it

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Speaker 2: did anything, there's a lot of talk around consensus and bipartisanship.

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Speaker 2: It probably united every part of the House in some

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Speaker 2: part of the report they didn't like. So it's pretty unerwhelming.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to stop the closure of

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Speaker 1: the mills?

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Speaker 2: No. I think it's too late for that and there'll

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Speaker 2: be just there's nothing really in the short term that

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Speaker 2: offers any kind of assistance for those people already in

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Speaker 2: that spiral where they're looking at tough decisions to close

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Speaker 2: or downsize and all that sort of thing. If it's

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Speaker 2: driven by electricity prime, the.

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Speaker 1: LNG terminal doesn't solve the problem.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's at least two years away. If it's done fast.

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Speaker 2: It's going to cost, and the LNG that comes in

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Speaker 2: my understanding, is a bit about twice the price what

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Speaker 2: it is currently, So there's another price increase straight off

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Speaker 2: the bat, and it'll be too late for some of them.

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Speaker 2: There is a lot of market noise, a lot of

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Speaker 2: chatter about one of the big gas users pulling out

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Speaker 2: of the market in the next twelve to eighteen months

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Speaker 2: or so, and that might free up some more supply,

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Speaker 2: so that might help. But I think the one I

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Speaker 2: don't know which one it is. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: speculation around that I couldn't really say, but I think

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Speaker 2: the one thing, if there's a positive out of it,

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Speaker 2: and it is a positive, that there's some kind of

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Speaker 2: certainty in a plan and a bit of direction, and

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Speaker 2: that might be enough to keep some of those businesses up.

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Speaker 2: What is we get some more well the third year

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Speaker 2: is we've got a plan. I mean, they've been sitting

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Speaker 2: on this thing for a month and but some pieces

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Speaker 2: of it have been leaking around the edge, which is

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Speaker 2: probably quite deliberate so they can fly you tites and

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Speaker 2: see what's going to work and what's not. But you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of people have been paying a bit

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Speaker 2: of hope on this thing, and then we ended up

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Speaker 2: with something that's pretty underwhelming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, John, what do you think?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'd probably take issue with the idea that there's

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Speaker 3: a plan. I actually I feel like this is people

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Speaker 3: kind of clambering around in the dark, kind of grasphold

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Speaker 3: or something to come up with solutions that might be

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Speaker 3: sellable to the public with an election year coming up

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Speaker 3: next year, but really don't move the country forward at all.

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Speaker 3: I mean, let's remember, you know, last year, one in

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Speaker 3: five consumers, you know, residential electricity customers, had trouble paying

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Speaker 3: their bill. Nineteen percent of people misspaying their bill on time.

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Speaker 3: Fifty six percent of people are concerned about the price

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Speaker 3: of energy. This does nothing to address that. It's Allan's

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Speaker 3: absolutely right when he says it's underwhelming, and it's it's

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Speaker 3: quite perplexing given the tough talk from the Minister of

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Speaker 3: Energy just a matter of weeks ago, talking about fundamental

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Speaker 3: reform to the sector, and you know what's been delivered

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Speaker 3: next to nothing.

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Speaker 1: John, I don't know how much time have you spent

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Speaker 1: thinking about this. You have you guys actually had a

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Speaker 1: look at it and thought what would actually work to

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Speaker 1: bring down prices for residential customers.

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Speaker 3: In terms of the report, you know, it's only been

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Speaker 3: out since this morning, so it's it's you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: still working through it. Yeah, it's a big piece of

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Speaker 3: you know, a big piece of analysis in my opinion.

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Speaker 3: In its essence, we need more supply, and ideally that

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Speaker 3: supply would be renewable, but we appreciate the fact that

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Speaker 3: we need firming generation to get us to a point

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Speaker 3: where we have enough renewable generation, so we are going

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Speaker 3: to have to rely on fossil fuels for a time,

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Speaker 3: but we what we need is a plan to get

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Speaker 3: us to a point where we have enough renewables to

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Speaker 3: meet demand and ideally would be building ahead of demand.

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Speaker 3: So there's actually a little bit of fat in the

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Speaker 3: system so that you know, we can innovate as an

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Speaker 3: economy and rely on their being reliable ultricity to support

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Speaker 3: that innovation.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. What would you do, Allan, what's the thing that

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Speaker 1: you would do to fix it?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think some of the things that are already

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Speaker 2: happening really start in the next maybe two to three

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Speaker 2: to five years, will make a difference. The idea that

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Speaker 2: prices will come down to me, that's just a red hearing.

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Speaker 2: They might stabilize for a while, and in real terms

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Speaker 2: they might reduce, but that's still going up. We've already

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Speaker 2: talked about doubling the price of the LNG when it

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Speaker 2: comes in. But if you look at things like the

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Speaker 2: fast track legislation and particularly as that applies and coupled

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Speaker 2: with the AREMA stuff, that's going to make plugging into

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Speaker 2: the network easier, and the fast track plans for generation,

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Speaker 2: that's got to go faster. And I'd almost say, let's

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Speaker 2: have an exemption for renewables and just get them done.

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Speaker 2: And then you know there is a bit of gas

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Speaker 2: expiration going on and Graymouth controlling and bringing in you

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Speaker 2: supply new field. There's a lot of plans for solar

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Speaker 2: and wind. Let's get on with that. The deep or

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Speaker 2: geo thermal stuff sounds really promising. Why haven't we started

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Speaker 2: work on that, or if we have at subterranean, no

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Speaker 2: one knows about it. Why don't we look at another

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Speaker 2: hydro not a major one, but there's small hydro schemes

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Speaker 2: that can go in around the place, But that seems

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Speaker 2: to have been ruled out by the environmental lobby. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, but if you add those things together plus

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Speaker 2: a little bit of gas LNG import, plus the government

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Speaker 2: saying that it will support an equity raise. It's not

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Speaker 2: putting an extra money and it's not giving them cash.

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Speaker 2: It'll support an equity raise for some of those projects

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Speaker 2: if they stack up, and if the LNG terminal stacks up,

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Speaker 2: all of those things heading in the same direction, and

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Speaker 2: the planet huntley to bring in more coal. I mean,

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Speaker 2: who's thought coal would be the answer? But the plan

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Speaker 2: there with the three big gent tailors getting together and

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Speaker 2: putting in that stockpile, that helps. But the rank and

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Speaker 2: engines of forty plus years old and running out, and

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Speaker 2: so with the engineers that know how to fix them,

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Speaker 2: so you know, that's something we've got to fix. Maybe

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Speaker 2: a bit of diesel comes in there as well, which

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Speaker 2: we closed all the diesel plants about fifteen or twenty

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Speaker 2: years ago. Now we're looking at doing them again. So

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. It's back to the future stuff.

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Speaker 1: It was just wild, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 1: Guys, Thank you appreciate both of you input there. That's

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Speaker 1: John John Duffy, you've consumed in New Zealand. Alan McDonald of

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