Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
Speaker 1: ed B, News.
Speaker 2: Talk zed B. Thank you very much for joining me.
Speaker 2: I'm Jason Walls in for Tim Beveridge on the Weekend
Speaker 2: Collective here up in the beautiful Auckland offices. Such a
Speaker 2: stunning day in Auckland. Such as stunning, stunning day, and
Speaker 2: I hope wherever you are around the country you are
Speaker 2: having such a beautiful time as well in terms of
Speaker 2: your weather and your day as well. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for Ed who was in before. I was talking
Speaker 2: about his charcoal barbecue and about some of the sausages
Speaker 2: that he's got in, some steaks, some dry age steaks
Speaker 2: that he's throwing on there. Made my mouth water while
Speaker 2: I was talking with him. But now, fantastic discussion and
Speaker 2: we're going to move on because it is now the
Speaker 2: parent Squad part of the show and we're going to
Speaker 2: be talking to Doogled Sutherland, who is a he's a
Speaker 2: psychologist at the Umbrella Wellington at Umbrella Wellington, Doogle. Good evening,
Speaker 2: good evening, good afternoon.
Speaker 3: Good afternoon. Jason, you're getting a hit of yourself the
Speaker 3: slightly Well, it's almost evening.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. I talked to a talkback caller
Speaker 2: a couple of days ago and I kept saying, you know, oh,
Speaker 2: good afternoon, good afternoon, and it was that five past five.
Speaker 2: He's like, no, no, no, it's good evening now, because
Speaker 2: the evening technically starts at five pm.
Speaker 3: I thought that too. I thought, yeah, I thought five
Speaker 3: o'clock was evening. It does fit. It feels like it
Speaker 3: feels good though, five o'clock to be the evening. I reckon.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, now, we're just going to kick under
Speaker 3: the evening now. I think it's good.
Speaker 2: I reckon. We have to change it during the seasons though,
Speaker 2: because during summer it still feels like the afternoon and
Speaker 2: the evening's not feel about six. But in winter or
Speaker 2: by four thirty, I'm like, it is the dead of night.
Speaker 3: Yeah, by five o'clock it's pretty much good night when
Speaker 3: you're in winter, isn't well.
Speaker 2: Tell you what. I lived in the northeast of England
Speaker 2: for a number of years and in summer it was
Speaker 2: still it was still light outside at like ten ten
Speaker 2: thirty pm. And then during the winter we were coming
Speaker 2: home from school and it was the Christmas lights were
Speaker 2: shining bright because it was just so dark amazing.
Speaker 3: Look, Dunedin's still a bit like that. I'm originally from
Speaker 3: Dunedin and it's still like you know, and I was
Speaker 3: in Central Otago at summer and it's still light there
Speaker 3: at nine o'clock nine thirty at night, you know, which
Speaker 3: is it's great when it happens, but it does get
Speaker 3: dark quicker in the winter there, don't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've never been to Dunners.
Speaker 3: Oh really, No.
Speaker 2: Everybody keeps telling me that I need to go, and
Speaker 2: I definitely do. I'll tell you it's down that the
Speaker 2: New Zealand safety video that makes me keep wanting to go,
Speaker 2: you know how He's like, oh, I'm the seafood done
Speaker 2: here seafood fan. So that convinced me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Nice. Oh yeah, gosh, you're missing how far what's
Speaker 3: the further south you've been Queenstown?
Speaker 2: Wait, there's Queenstown further south than christ Church.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Queenstown is further south and christ the.
Speaker 2: Queen then Queenstown.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, We've got You've got a whole whole
Speaker 3: section of the country to the mainland really to go
Speaker 3: and explore.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe when I have some time off between shows
Speaker 2: and what I do in my day job down in Wellington,
Speaker 2: I can explore the country. Doogot, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining us. By now everybody will be aware NCEE
Speaker 2: exam results have been released and many out there will
Speaker 2: be less than pleased with how they did.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Every parent wants their child to be their best, But
Speaker 2: how can we push our children to improve without destroying
Speaker 2: their self confidence? And as parents deal with the fallout
Speaker 2: of these exam results, many have had to return to
Speaker 2: work while the school holidays drag on with only twenty
Speaker 2: days annually for most people, How can anyone manage to
Speaker 2: find or afford health our childcare for the long longest
Speaker 2: school break of the year. And how can you maintain
Speaker 2: a sense of normality with such different routines. And that's
Speaker 2: what we're going to be talking to doogled about this afternoon,
Speaker 2: and we're this evening rather and we will be welcoming
Speaker 2: your calls. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty if you
Speaker 2: want to get involved in the conversation and direct some
Speaker 2: questions to doogld because he's the expert. I'm just like
Speaker 2: I was with Ed, just the loud mouth, talking head
Speaker 2: with a piece of paper in front of me, but doogle.
Speaker 2: I'm interested from your perspective, what should a parent's initial
Speaker 2: response to be when the exam results come in.
Speaker 3: Well, look, I'm speaking not only as a psychologist here
Speaker 3: but as a parent as well. My daughter's just got
Speaker 3: her she's just finished level three in CEA and so
Speaker 3: she got her results. I can't remember what day it was.
Speaker 3: Was it Thursday?
Speaker 2: Iday week?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, And look, funny enough, she was, like many
Speaker 3: kids around the country, she was a bit nervous. She
Speaker 3: wasn't sure how she was going to go. She is
Speaker 3: going up to Auckland the year to do midwiffery and
Speaker 3: so she needed to get biology in CEA level three
Speaker 3: and she she didn't think she did very well in
Speaker 3: the exam, so she was a bit nervous about that
Speaker 3: and had already in fact done things like she'd enrolled
Speaker 3: in summer school at Takurda, the correspondent school, to try
Speaker 3: and pick up credits should she need them. So and look,
Speaker 3: many kids will be in that position and parents too,
Speaker 3: and it is a nervous time. I think. Firstly, when
Speaker 3: exam res are it's come through and they're still pretty
Speaker 3: fresh for many people. Now, of course, your role really
Speaker 3: as a parent at this point is just to be
Speaker 3: supportive and to be and celebrate if they if they've
Speaker 3: got their results and they've achieved them, and commiserate and
Speaker 3: support them and be empathetic if they've not got the results.
Speaker 3: You know, really pay attention to the emotions that your
Speaker 3: kids are feeling right now. Now is not the time
Speaker 3: to start, you know, lecturing them about oh, yes, well
Speaker 3: I told you should have worked harder. I told you
Speaker 3: should you know, didn't I say that you shouldn't have
Speaker 3: been you know? Now is not that time. There will
Speaker 3: be a time for that, but now is not that time.
Speaker 3: So now I think really that the initial focus for
Speaker 3: the next week or two, just well they digest these results,
Speaker 3: is just to focus on their emotions and just to
Speaker 3: be as I say, celebrated if they've achieved, and commiserate
Speaker 3: and be empathic if they have not achieved what they'd hoped.
Speaker 2: How'd your door to do? Did she do her? In
Speaker 2: the end?
Speaker 3: She did do all right, Yeah she did. She did.
Speaker 3: She got what she needed to in biology, and she
Speaker 3: did pretty well in another couple of subjects. But I'm
Speaker 3: not sure how useful photography or design are going to
Speaker 3: be from midwive. But she did, she did well in
Speaker 3: those but she got what she needed in her bio
Speaker 3: and she was she was she was stoked and and
Speaker 3: and that's cool and and and lots of kids will
Speaker 3: be in that position that they've got what they need. Look,
Speaker 3: I think the other thing, and this might be an
Speaker 3: important lesson for kids to learn too, is that look
Speaker 3: exam results, whilst they mean a lot at the time
Speaker 3: that they're in the grand scheme of life, it's a
Speaker 3: bit of a wrinkle if you don't get what you
Speaker 3: what you want or what you need. And I think
Speaker 3: as adults and parents, that's one of the roles that
Speaker 3: we can plays helping give some perspective that yeah, it
Speaker 3: might feel like it's really really bad, but actually heaps
Speaker 3: of people don't get the results they want and it
Speaker 3: works out all right in the end for them. And
Speaker 3: and you know, my son he finished school, oh gosh,
Speaker 3: he's mid twenties now, so he finished school a few
Speaker 3: years ago. He finished at the end of level two.
Speaker 3: He didn't do level three. And but he's actually just
Speaker 3: last year graduated from aut with a degree and he
Speaker 3: went back and did it later. So you know, even
Speaker 3: though it may seem like the end of the world,
Speaker 3: there was always another path, and I think that's a
Speaker 3: useful message for our kids to have.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I remember when I was in year I
Speaker 2: was year twelve, at the end of year twelve, and
Speaker 2: I was look, I was, we were done, and toyleroant
Speaker 2: our actually actually and I was getting my results and
Speaker 2: you know, you'd just log on and this is about
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago now, and we logged onto this the
Speaker 2: computer at the house that we were staying at and
Speaker 2: I remember going through all my results and I was
Speaker 2: really nervous. And the English ones were fine, the Maths
Speaker 2: ones were fine. And then I got to physics, and
Speaker 2: I had studied so hard for physics. I thought I
Speaker 2: was going to be doing really well. I was really
Speaker 2: excited and then I clicked on and I'd failed every
Speaker 2: single paper. I couldn't believe it. And I do remember
Speaker 2: having that guttural feeling that my life is over, like
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do anything to do with physics.
Speaker 2: I hated science. I was an English guy all going up,
Speaker 2: despite the fact that dyslexic. But I remember my parents
Speaker 2: were really good about it because I didn't I could
Speaker 2: tell that they were probably like, what do we do here?
Speaker 2: Because I was the oldest child, it was quite a
Speaker 2: lot of failure for me. And they were really good
Speaker 2: because they gave me my space. They didn't they definitely
Speaker 2: didn't lecture me. They didn't say, well if you did
Speaker 2: more of this. But I was a bit of a
Speaker 2: brat about it as well, because I didn't even tell
Speaker 2: them for quite some time. They were just like, how
Speaker 2: to do good? Well, it was good, it was all right.
Speaker 2: So what would be a vice to parents if you
Speaker 2: have got a kid that just kind of withdrawers? Is
Speaker 2: a year, It's okay, it's fine.
Speaker 3: Look, I think I think your your tale, Jason as
Speaker 3: a nice one, really just illustrates the importance of giving
Speaker 3: young people some space. You know. Look, parents of teenagers
Speaker 3: know that that we not always the first port of
Speaker 3: call for kids to share their emotions with it. You know,
Speaker 3: their friends are often much more important, and they might
Speaker 3: have told their friends and they might not have told
Speaker 3: you as a parent. But look, just giving your kids
Speaker 3: some space to digest it. Try to avoid nagging or
Speaker 3: asking questions after question. I know you'll be curious. You know,
Speaker 3: I went to work on Thursday going, oh god, I
Speaker 3: wonder what the result is the results are going to
Speaker 3: be like, and I just had to sort of, you know,
Speaker 3: quell that curiosity, just waiting for her to come to
Speaker 3: me and let me know. And I think, you know,
Speaker 3: if your teen is a bit sullen and a bit withdrawn,
Speaker 3: you might make a few educated guesses about what's gone
Speaker 3: on with the results. But just give them a little
Speaker 3: bit of time and pick your moment. I think that
Speaker 3: there might be a moment when everybody else is out
Speaker 3: of the house and it's just you and them alone,
Speaker 3: and that might be the moment to say, hey, look,
Speaker 3: how did those results go on? You know, you've said
Speaker 3: they're fine, but you know, give us, give us the
Speaker 3: detail exactly how how did you go? But just choose
Speaker 3: your moments as much as you can and let them
Speaker 3: come to you.
Speaker 2: So what about if it's a situation where you have
Speaker 2: one of your kids and you know that they should
Speaker 2: have been studying more in their study time. They've been
Speaker 2: mucking around, they've been on tech took, they've been doing
Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff. They've been doing everything but study.
Speaker 2: You've been on their back time and time again. Then
Speaker 2: they do get their results coming through and as could
Speaker 2: be expected, they're not very good. What's the balance there?
Speaker 2: How how do you say I'm proud of you and
Speaker 2: you need to work harder at the same time.
Speaker 3: Look, I think you know. I think in parenting we
Speaker 3: often talk about kind of the Goldilocks zone, and that's
Speaker 3: and and that's again a good a good idea here,
Speaker 3: and the Goldilock zone is kind of it's right in
Speaker 3: the middle. There you're not being too strict on them
Speaker 3: and too harsh and lecturing them, and and at the
Speaker 3: not the other end of the spectrum, you're not being
Speaker 3: lax and say, oh well, it doesn't really matter. So
Speaker 3: the Goldilock zone for that situation. I think when when
Speaker 3: teens haven't done too well is again firstly being there
Speaker 3: to support their emotions. They will be bummed about it,
Speaker 3: probably more than you are as a parent. So remember
Speaker 3: it's their exam results, not yours, and they will be
Speaker 3: bummed and they look, they will know probably give them
Speaker 3: some credit. They will know that probably they haven't studied
Speaker 3: as hard as they could. And I think rather than
Speaker 3: lecturing them and saying well you should have studied and
Speaker 3: blah blah lah, I think again, picking your moment when
Speaker 3: when the moment's right, and the emotions perhaps died down
Speaker 3: a bit and they're communicating with you. Just get them
Speaker 3: to reflect on it, avoid avoid trying to tell them
Speaker 3: what they should have done differently, and help them to
Speaker 3: unpack what they think they could have done differently. And
Speaker 3: I think that's a much better way of them actually
Speaker 3: learning the lesson from what's happened, because this is one
Speaker 3: of life's lessons really that they can learn from. So
Speaker 3: asking them, look, what do you think you know? What
Speaker 3: do you think led to this result? Is there anything
Speaker 3: that you could have done differently? Do you think without?
Speaker 3: They don't need you to tell them they should have
Speaker 3: studied more, that's pretty evident from the results. But getting
Speaker 3: them to reflect and figure out, support them to figure
Speaker 3: out what they're going to do next. Don't make the
Speaker 3: decisions for them, get them, but just help them be
Speaker 3: there as guard rails I guess as they're trying to
Speaker 3: make the decision about what to do next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some sailient advice there, just while if you're listening
Speaker 2: at home, oh, eight hundred and eighty, if you've got
Speaker 2: some stories about how your parents reacted to your exam results,
Speaker 2: or how did you react to your kid's results, when
Speaker 2: they were good, when there were bad, if they were
Speaker 2: anywhere in between, we'd love to hear from them. And
Speaker 2: if you have some questions for do Gold as well,
Speaker 2: we'll be more than happy to put you on air
Speaker 2: to talk with him. I was wondering if we could
Speaker 2: do something a little bit outside the box here, because
Speaker 2: I understand what you were saying in theory. In practice,
Speaker 2: I'm struggling to comprehend it the little bit more So,
Speaker 2: can we do a bit of role playing here? Can
Speaker 2: I be a teen who has not studied and listen
Speaker 2: to everybody that's always texting and you sound like you're
Speaker 2: twelve years old? I'm not. I'm well above twelve. I
Speaker 2: won't tell you how old, but I'm married and I
Speaker 2: have a house, So there's your gate. So can I
Speaker 2: be the teen who hasn't studied despite the fact that
Speaker 2: my parents have told me time and time again. I
Speaker 2: think this might be a good perspective for some parents
Speaker 2: listening to try and figure out how to maintain this. Okay,
Speaker 2: so we'll begin with you asking me how the results went,
Speaker 2: and we can skip past the sort of Okay, I'll
Speaker 2: just come right out and tell.
Speaker 3: You, Yeah, okay, co general Jesse, How did the how
Speaker 3: did you're inca results go?
Speaker 2: They're all right? English? Was achieved? Got not achieved in
Speaker 2: all the sciences though, and then not achieved in p
Speaker 2: as well, but then yeah, achieved in geography though.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's so achieved and not geography? And what was
Speaker 3: the other one? You said? English?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, good good good? And and and how
Speaker 3: are you how are you feeling about the not achieveds?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 3: Were you? Were you surprised? Like? Did you is that
Speaker 3: what you kind of expected you would get? Or were
Speaker 3: you hoping for an achieved or what was the deal? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was hoping for an achieved. I thought I did
Speaker 2: all right for a merit but yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah what what what do you reckon
Speaker 3: lead to that kind of the not achieved?
Speaker 2: Ah? I suppose I could have studied a little bit harder.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. How did that was? Was? Was it? How
Speaker 3: did well? How did you? How did you go? How
Speaker 3: did you get on so well with geography and English? Well?
Speaker 2: I like those, you know, I feel like I'm good
Speaker 2: at English geography. I know about erosion and stuff. It's
Speaker 2: just those other ones. Yeah, I just didn't really get
Speaker 2: it because they didn't get it, didn't study as much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think too. During the year you
Speaker 3: kind of said that that those are a little bit
Speaker 3: harder for you and you're not quite enjoying them as
Speaker 3: much as your other subjects. Is there anything that like,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, they're done now, can't we can't
Speaker 3: change results, and you know, I'm a bit bummed about them,
Speaker 3: but I'm sure you are too. What's your plan? What
Speaker 3: are you thinking of for twenty twenty five? Are you
Speaker 3: gonna Are you gonna or are you close enough that
Speaker 3: you could get a few credits over summer school or
Speaker 3: something like that, or are you going to have to
Speaker 3: repeat those completely for the year.
Speaker 2: No, well I can repeat them next year, but or
Speaker 2: I could do them in summer school. I was close
Speaker 2: enough that it wasn't a complete rad off.
Speaker 3: So okay, okay, cool, Well watch what's what? What do
Speaker 3: you what do you reckon? You want to do? What's
Speaker 3: what's a good plan? I mean, I'm you know, I can.
Speaker 3: We're going to support you whatever, right you're You're You're
Speaker 3: our sun. It sounds weird, doogle.
Speaker 2: That was phenomenal. You did a great job. I felt like,
Speaker 2: I feel very mentored by you right now and how
Speaker 2: you've brought it back that was fantastic. And we're getting
Speaker 2: a couple of texts coming through about how well we
Speaker 2: did that, So you know the oxen, but I do
Speaker 2: I like how you You weren't too probing, you know,
Speaker 2: and you let even though I was a bratty, little
Speaker 2: emotional team, you let me lead the conversation. And at
Speaker 2: one point I was even you know, you said, well
Speaker 2: what made you think? Why do you think that you
Speaker 2: got to that point? And I found myself saying, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't study very much, and instead of
Speaker 2: chastising me, you said, oh, well, what's the next option?
Speaker 2: So would that be? Your advice to parents is just
Speaker 2: letting the kids and the teens lead the conversation and
Speaker 2: you just sort of chiming and where you.
Speaker 3: Can absolutely I think you know, parents of teens, especially
Speaker 3: parents of male teens, you know we've all had that,
Speaker 3: and you know you and I were both male teens
Speaker 3: as well, so we know what it's like firsthand to
Speaker 3: just be that grumpy all was fun? Right? Just you know,
Speaker 3: I think less is often more just creating that space
Speaker 3: for them to come to you. But the other thing
Speaker 3: that probably added to you and I doing such a
Speaker 3: great performance that no doubt we're going to get nominated
Speaker 3: award when yeah, is that there's not the emotional connection.
Speaker 3: And I think you know you're just just so listeners
Speaker 3: are clear, there's no biological relationship between your eye and
Speaker 3: so you're not really my son. So so, but but
Speaker 3: you know, when it is your kith and kin, when
Speaker 3: it's your kids, there is And I know this myself.
Speaker 3: I find it it's much easier for me to give
Speaker 3: advice to somebody that sometimes when it is to deal
Speaker 3: with my own kids, because for me, there's that emotion
Speaker 3: and and and I don't have that when I'm speaking
Speaker 3: to somebody that's not my own kid, because I don't
Speaker 3: have that personal connection. So often, as parents, when you're
Speaker 3: having these difficult conversations, one of the things is how
Speaker 3: to manage your own emotions. Like if I'm feeling really
Speaker 3: annoyed and brassed off at you, because actually you were
Speaker 3: you should have studied much more, and you and I
Speaker 3: both know that, and it really ticks me off that
Speaker 3: you haven't. And now look what you've done, and now
Speaker 3: what's going to happen this year. But that's that emotion.
Speaker 3: Expressing that emotion to you to your kid when you're
Speaker 3: having this discussion is not going to be useful for
Speaker 3: that conversation. They will know you're disappointed with them. They
Speaker 3: will know that you're that you feel, you know, down
Speaker 3: about it, just like they do. So for parents, it's
Speaker 3: often about managing your emotions so that those don't seep
Speaker 3: in and color the conversation in a different way. You know, yes,
Speaker 3: there will be a time as a parent that you
Speaker 3: need to let off your own steam about God, bluddy Jason.
Speaker 3: I told him to get on with his study and
Speaker 3: he didn't do it, and now look at him. But
Speaker 3: that's a conversation with another adult. You know, if you've
Speaker 3: got a partner, have a conversation with them, or if
Speaker 3: you don't have a partner, have a commonversation with a
Speaker 3: friend or a family member. But that's not the conversation
Speaker 3: to have with the young person because all they're here
Speaker 3: as your anger or your frustration. They won't hear anything else.
Speaker 3: So emotion management, I think is a real key for
Speaker 3: anything in parenting.
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, we'll be back after this. Thank you very
Speaker 2: much for your thoughts. So far Google News Talk z B.
Speaker 2: It's just about five point thirty News Talk z BE
Speaker 2: with Jason Walls filling in for Tim Beverage on the
Speaker 2: Weekend Collective. Before we get back to Googled, a couple
Speaker 2: of texts about our award winning performance. Then ha ha ha,
Speaker 2: you play that role perfectly, as in me and as
Speaker 2: a teen. Somebody else says, this is a real tough listen, haha,
Speaker 2: Jason makes a great teen spot on Thank You very Much.
Speaker 2: Two out of three is not bad, isn't it? Doogled?
Speaker 3: Yeah, look that's sixty six. Let's a pass an eNCA.
Speaker 2: That's right, That's exactly right. Hey, I'm interested in something
Speaker 2: you were saying before the break. You were talking about
Speaker 2: you know, you don't want to vent to your kids,
Speaker 2: to your teens about their performance, but go talk to
Speaker 2: a friend or a partner or something or somebody like that.
Speaker 2: What's the etiquette around that?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 2: What's the does and the don'ts? I mean, because listen,
Speaker 2: I love I was a perfect kid growing up. I
Speaker 2: can already see my parents let texting in right, never
Speaker 2: did anything wrong, never three any house parties when they
Speaker 2: were out of town or anything like that. I'm sure
Speaker 2: they vented about me. I'm sure they at some point
Speaker 2: like this little this little crap, what's he doing? This
Speaker 2: little knucklehead? How do you do that as a parent
Speaker 2: in this I'm just interested in the kosher way of
Speaker 2: doing that.
Speaker 3: Oh look, I think firstly, it's where you do it,
Speaker 3: and you really want to do it out of earshot
Speaker 3: of of of of your team. So it might be
Speaker 3: at work, or it might be you know, you know,
Speaker 3: or they might be out because it's first it's not
Speaker 3: the sort of conversation you you want them to overhear either,
Speaker 3: but it is look at it as parents, we're humans too,
Speaker 3: just like your team is. Weirdly enough, although they don't
Speaker 3: act like it sometimes, but it's about it's just like anything.
Speaker 3: It's it's as a parent. This is an event in
Speaker 3: your life just as much as in its event in
Speaker 3: their life that has made you feel a particular way,
Speaker 3: and we know that it's really useful to manage your emotions,
Speaker 3: or one useful way to manage your emotions is actually
Speaker 3: talking it through with somebody else. So it's it's and
Speaker 3: it's being honest, it's saying, look, it really brassed me off.
Speaker 3: Jason was just I knew that he wasn't going to
Speaker 3: do it, and I feel so bloody frustrated about it.
Speaker 3: And look, that's perfectly fine. That is how as a
Speaker 3: parent that you might experience it. But the difference is
Speaker 3: having a place where you can vent that feeling, where
Speaker 3: you can express that feeling that is not with your tea.
Speaker 3: And often I think as parents, you know, we get
Speaker 3: drawn into it's like a magnet, or you know that
Speaker 3: you get drawn into expressing that emotion in front or
Speaker 3: towards your children and your rent and your rave, and
Speaker 3: you tattle them off, and that it really doesn't do
Speaker 3: anybody an awful lot of good. You generally feel terrible
Speaker 3: after you've done it. It damages the relationship with your team,
Speaker 3: and they feel terrible too because now you're yelling and
Speaker 3: swearing and raving at them, and it doesn't really achieve anything.
Speaker 3: And look, my experience with you know, and I've worked
Speaker 3: with parents for over twenty years now, and often it's
Speaker 3: that the key thing is how do people manage their
Speaker 3: emotion in any state, whether they're angry or whether they're
Speaker 3: worried themselves. It's putting up a protective layer between your
Speaker 3: emotion and your child or young person, because you know,
Speaker 3: kids don't know how to deal with their with their parents'
Speaker 3: emotion and they shouldn't have to because that's not the
Speaker 3: relationship you have. So you're having a good you know,
Speaker 3: and there's nothing wrong with having a bit of a
Speaker 3: bitch and a moan with your good friends or your
Speaker 3: family about how you feel about your kids. That's fine
Speaker 3: because it's a reality for you.
Speaker 2: But so that happens quite often, does it? I just
Speaker 2: I don't have kids. Hopefully someday we'll have a couple
Speaker 2: of spraguelets running around. But is it quite normal for
Speaker 2: parents to get together and just kind of gossip about
Speaker 2: their kids, not in the malicious way, but just as
Speaker 2: a weed event.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Look, I think I think it is, you know, and
Speaker 3: you certainly find that there's a sense of when you
Speaker 3: do it as a parent. I think that there's a
Speaker 3: sense of relief that actually because because nine times out
Speaker 3: of ten other parents are feeling just like you, and
Speaker 3: you get some validation, you know, people say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I had that with mine too. God they never study
Speaker 3: these days, do they? And you go, oh, I thought
Speaker 3: it was just me? And actually that helps sort of
Speaker 3: teamer down a little bit your your your emotion because
Speaker 3: you are just you're getting some validation from somebody. Are
Speaker 3: sure hearing that you're not the only one who also
Speaker 3: feels brassed off? But I think you know, parents often
Speaker 3: do that. You know, kids don't know and and and
Speaker 3: it's a bit like center that kids never really know
Speaker 3: that it's the parents, but parents. Weirdly enough, parents have
Speaker 3: emotions too, and they need to be they need to
Speaker 3: be able to express and manage those but just in
Speaker 3: an adult appropriate way. But certainly that certainly in my circles,
Speaker 3: you know, lots of time parents will We've just been
Speaker 3: away with some friends of ours in christ Church. They've
Speaker 3: got kids very similar ages to ours, and we shared
Speaker 3: some frustrations and some anxieties and some you know, some
Speaker 3: celebrations that we could with our friends, adult to adult.
Speaker 3: And I think it's really important.
Speaker 2: And you make a really good point about you know,
Speaker 2: you don't want to feel like you're alone in this everybody.
Speaker 2: It's likely, you know, teens are not that complicated. There've
Speaker 2: been the same since the dawn of time. It's likely
Speaker 2: that other people are going to have the same struggles
Speaker 2: that you have, So having that camaraderie and being able
Speaker 2: to and I have a couple of shard knees with
Speaker 2: the girls. While you talk about the NCAA results and
Speaker 2: the dues and the don'ts, it's probably very.
Speaker 3: Healthy, yeahslutely and look at a stretched thinking back about
Speaker 3: you know, my kids are now eighteen and twenty three,
Speaker 3: twenty four and thinking back about that their whole journey
Speaker 3: through through life so far. Definitely, it's not just teenagers.
Speaker 3: You know, there's the temper tantrums as a two and
Speaker 3: a three year old, and getting together with other parents
Speaker 3: who are well even when they even when the new
Speaker 3: you know, young young babies and they're not sleeping and goh,
Speaker 3: there's nothing worse for a parent than you know, nights
Speaker 3: after night after not sleeping and dealing with a grumpy
Speaker 3: And actually it's really important for parents to get that
Speaker 3: sport from one another and not to feel alone, because
Speaker 3: I think that's certainly with parents I've worked with over time,
Speaker 3: that's one of the things they talk about, is is
Speaker 3: actually having that sense that oh, I'm not alone, I'm
Speaker 3: not in this by myself. This is actually okay, it's normal.
Speaker 3: And the message underlying that is we can get through
Speaker 3: it because as you say, people have been doing this
Speaker 3: since the dawn of time, although there is some interesting
Speaker 3: literature around as teenage are the teenage years just sort
Speaker 3: of a creation of the last sort of two centuries
Speaker 3: but putting out well, I think the theory is is
Speaker 3: that actually, you know, people were thrust into adulthood much sooner,
Speaker 3: much earlier than than they are in modern times. You know,
Speaker 3: once you were thirteen or fourteen, often you're off into
Speaker 3: the workforce, and perhaps sooner than that, particularly for people
Speaker 3: from working you know, and you know, who were the
Speaker 3: working class. They didn't have necessary the luxury of having
Speaker 3: some elongated period of adolescence that it was okay, you've
Speaker 3: finished schooling at twelve and often to the workforce. And
Speaker 3: there is some theories out there that teenagehood has really
Speaker 3: only become into its own in the last hundred years
Speaker 3: or so, as we've had much more of a middle
Speaker 3: class and much more of a time when we are
Speaker 3: you know, when we don't have to go out to
Speaker 3: work when we're twelve or thirteen, and we can stay
Speaker 3: at home for a but longer. But yeah, but that's
Speaker 3: our theory. It's it's not it's not necessarily everybody agrees
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting stuff, Doogled, Thank you so much. We'll be
Speaker 2: back with more with doogled Sutherland after the break. You're
Speaker 2: with News Talk as z B for the weekend Collective
Speaker 2: News Talks ed B. Jason Walls with you here on
Speaker 2: the Parenting Squad talking to doogled Sutherland, who is with
Speaker 2: the Umbrella Well Being Group. Doogle, I'm interested about the
Speaker 2: school holidays a parent. How do parents manage the school
Speaker 2: holidays these days? I mean, most people have twenty days
Speaker 2: annual leave a year. There are a lot of holidays
Speaker 2: throughout the year, and then you've got this big stretch
Speaker 2: at the end of the year. Does how do you
Speaker 2: think that works for a lot of parents.
Speaker 3: It's a real toughie, I think especially you know, we've
Speaker 3: been talking about teens, and of course, once your kids
Speaker 3: get to teenagers, they can you know, they can be
Speaker 3: home by themselves and that's cool, but you know, younger
Speaker 3: than that, you know, for the first thirteen fourteen years
Speaker 3: of their life, it is really hard. It's as you say,
Speaker 3: we get twenty days of annual leave a year. Some
Speaker 3: people might get a few more, but on average that's
Speaker 3: what we get, and kids are off school for an
Speaker 3: awful lot longer than that. And interesting that the little
Speaker 3: blurb you know, just that just before we came on
Speaker 3: here was about the community that you know, the parenting
Speaker 3: squad is the community that's helped raising your child. Well,
Speaker 3: I think this is a real time, you know, one
Speaker 3: of those situations where you do need a community around
Speaker 3: you you and people might there's lots of things, you know,
Speaker 3: when our kids were growing up, we would often have
Speaker 3: grandparents come up for a week or two to look
Speaker 3: after the kids, or as they got older, we some
Speaker 3: occasionally popped them on a plane and they went down
Speaker 3: to the need and to stay with the grandparents, or
Speaker 3: you know, you remembering that most parents are probably in
Speaker 3: the same position as you. So are there people around
Speaker 3: you in your neighborhood and your friend circles and your communities,
Speaker 3: whatever communities you're in, who you can club together with
Speaker 3: and say, hey, look, you know, if you do two days,
Speaker 3: we'll do two days, and you know, we'll have your
Speaker 3: kids and you have ours, and then we can we
Speaker 3: can eke it out. But it's it is, it's the
Speaker 3: mass is simply doesn't add up right, that you know,
Speaker 3: kids are off school. I don't know what, they're off
Speaker 3: school for eight twelve weeks a year and we've got
Speaker 3: half of that if you're lucky, and then you'll leave.
Speaker 3: So but I think it really the key really is
Speaker 3: coming together in communities where you can help and support
Speaker 3: one another.
Speaker 2: What if you don't have that sort of situation.
Speaker 3: That's tough a And of course there are people out
Speaker 3: there who are like that. We were a little bit
Speaker 3: like that. I think when we had our son, our
Speaker 3: first child, we moved to Wellington and we really had
Speaker 3: very few, very few friends and family around us. We
Speaker 3: moved from my wife's job and it was okay. Look,
Speaker 3: I think if you can afford it, there'll always be
Speaker 3: you know, there'll always be holiday programs, and they're often
Speaker 3: although kids can gown and grown a bit having to
Speaker 3: get up and go to them, they're often pretty enjoyable.
Speaker 3: So that might be a good thing. Look, it could
Speaker 3: be that it's an opportunity for you to meet people
Speaker 3: in your neighborhood. There will often be high school students
Speaker 3: who are looking for some extra money over that time
Speaker 3: and who are happy to do it at a much
Speaker 3: cheaper rate than a school holiday program. You might have
Speaker 3: to talk really nicely to your boss and say, hey, look,
Speaker 3: is there any way that I could be working from
Speaker 3: home a little bit? Yeah, just so that I'm around
Speaker 3: to supervise my kids. I don't want to give working
Speaker 3: from home a bad name or the sense that, you know,
Speaker 3: when people are working from home they're not really doing it.
Speaker 3: But for some people that's a reality, is that I
Speaker 3: don't have friends and family around, and they might just
Speaker 3: need to be at home just and they'll have to
Speaker 3: set kids up. There is a lot of setting up. Okay,
Speaker 3: Monday it's this, and Tuesday it's that, So there might
Speaker 3: be a bit of setting up and you being around
Speaker 3: a little bit more to supervise them.
Speaker 2: And how do you deal with that sort of routine?
Speaker 2: Have you got any good tips around that one?
Speaker 3: You mean the routine of when they are just this
Speaker 3: period when parents are back at work and kids still
Speaker 3: on holiday. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you were talking about how on Monday you
Speaker 2: do this on Tuesday night?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Look, Look, I think that the times when
Speaker 3: the situation that I have experienced it have worked the best,
Speaker 3: both personally and with you know, with other parents. I've
Speaker 3: known when you've sat down and actually done a little
Speaker 3: bit of planning out you've mapped out a week, you know, Okay,
Speaker 3: Monday morning, this is what's going to happen. Monday afternoon,
Speaker 3: this will happen. You know, the same for Tuesday, Wednesday,
Speaker 3: et cetera. It does take a little bit of planning,
Speaker 3: and the better planned you are, I think, the better
Speaker 3: prepared you are. And it tends to involve your kids
Speaker 3: in that as much as you can. You know, what
Speaker 3: are some of the things that you would like to do.
Speaker 3: And of course they're going to say that they want
Speaker 3: to go to the movies every day, and they want
Speaker 3: to watch video. You know, they want to be on
Speaker 3: the PlayStation for twenty four hours and that's not going
Speaker 3: to happen every day. But you know, remember it's their
Speaker 3: holidays too, so be a bit more lenient. If they
Speaker 3: want to have a bit more screen time than usual,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe that's okay. If they want to go
Speaker 3: to the pool every day, then maybe that's okay as well.
Speaker 3: But just you know, remembering that it is the holiday
Speaker 3: as well. It's their time to enjoy it. But the
Speaker 3: more planning and preparation and advance you can do, I
Speaker 3: think the more likely you are for it to go.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it. I remember
Speaker 2: going to holiday programs when I was a kid and
Speaker 2: being very sort of grumpy about having to go because,
Speaker 2: as you said, I wanted to stay home and play
Speaker 2: Police Station the whole time. But then you get there
Speaker 2: and you actually find that you enjoy it quite a lot.
Speaker 2: Is there a way that you know without telling your
Speaker 2: kids I told you so, but telling them I told
Speaker 2: you so that one.
Speaker 3: Oh. Look, going back to earlier conversation, I think, particularly
Speaker 3: once kids get over the age of sort of nine
Speaker 3: or ten or so, you can probably have that again.
Speaker 3: It's resisting the urge to tell them that that you
Speaker 3: told them so, and getting them to reflect on it
Speaker 3: and just gently reminding them. And this is a sort
Speaker 3: of a delicate thing to do, but gently reminding them
Speaker 3: that actually because of how they felt before they went,
Speaker 3: because often kids will be very much in the here
Speaker 3: and now and they've loved it and it was great. No,
Speaker 3: I want to go back and just gently remind them,
Speaker 3: you know, in a positive way. Ah, great, that's cool,
Speaker 3: because I actually when we talked about it last week,
Speaker 3: you weren't so into it, and just exploring with them
Speaker 3: what it was that made it good. You know, you know,
Speaker 3: so what changed your mind, what was good that made
Speaker 3: it or what did you enjoy that made it actually
Speaker 3: quite good for you rather than than what you thought
Speaker 3: or feared it was going to be. And then so
Speaker 3: letting them reflect and come up with the answers, because
Speaker 3: that's actually kind of going to be valuable information for
Speaker 3: you in the future, going, oh, actually that this worked,
Speaker 3: this holiday programer would ever work for them because I
Speaker 3: don't know, they went to the pool, or they did
Speaker 3: went to the zoo or something, and that was written.
Speaker 3: So let's try and do that again next summer holidays.
Speaker 2: So you retain a bit of that information and say,
Speaker 2: remember going to the zoo last time. I'm sure they'll
Speaker 2: be doing that again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, And it may take a little bit
Speaker 3: of you reminding them because and and also as parents
Speaker 3: sometimes you just have to you know, kids just have
Speaker 3: to do what they have to do, because that's the
Speaker 3: stark reality. And so not getting too drawn into the
Speaker 3: fact that I don't really want to do it. This
Speaker 3: is terrible, it's the worst day of my life. And
Speaker 3: again just sort of having to push through that because
Speaker 3: as parents, you know that they'll probably enjoy it when
Speaker 3: they get.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely right, doogle. Thank you so much for the chat.
Speaker 2: I've learned quite a lot. I particularly liked our roleplay,
Speaker 2: and I hope if you've been listening along you've learned
Speaker 2: a lot as well. So thank you very much and
Speaker 2: you enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker 3: Thanks Jason, great to chat with you, and yeah, enjoy
Speaker 3: the rest of your evening now that we're officially an
Speaker 3: evening time.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Oh, News Talk is zed B.
Speaker 2: You're with Jason Walls for the Weekend Collective. It's just
Speaker 2: about ten to six.
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Speaker 1: Talk zed B weekends from three pm, or follow the
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