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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine

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Speaker 1: from Newstalks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Crossfield kick looking for Tommy Freeman Freeman right is hi?

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Speaker 1: Tommy Freeman accident?

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Speaker 3: Was England try just on halftime? Terrific athleticism from Tommy

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Speaker 3: Freeman scoring England's second try just before halftime last night,

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Speaker 3: giving them a fourteen to thirteen lead at the break,

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Speaker 3: Mark Delaya's second try in the second half and Damion

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Speaker 3: McKenzie's two penalties getting the All Blacks home though twenty

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Speaker 3: four points to seventeen fifty five Tests sixty nine game.

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Speaker 3: Former All Black center Frank Buntz was in the News

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Speaker 3: Stalks heb commentary box alongside Elliott Smith last night. He

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Speaker 3: joins us, Now, Frank, can we start with Boden Barrett's influence?

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Speaker 3: How key was he to the result when he introduced

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Speaker 3: himself into the game with about half an hour ago?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think he was the key. You know, we

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Speaker 2: were floundering for a bit there and we needed the spark,

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Speaker 2: you know, and he came on and gave the energy,

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Speaker 2: as did I won't take away from Courtiers Romki either,

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Speaker 2: but you know, body came on and and you know,

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Speaker 2: we saw him back to his to his best. Really,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was a spark that we needed, bread

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Speaker 2: energy and and you know his his experience as well.

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Speaker 2: You know, he just knew where to be and when

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Speaker 2: to be there and what to do, so you know,

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Speaker 2: really got us out of a hole. I think, why

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Speaker 2: do you.

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Speaker 3: Think that spark was missing before he came on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a hard one. It's sometimes you know,

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Speaker 2: you get into games and it's not taken away from

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Speaker 2: England either, because you know, they force the game that

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Speaker 2: they play. You know, they they force you into into

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Speaker 2: doing a lot of things that you don't want to do.

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Speaker 2: And it just takes one individual and you know it

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Speaker 2: may even be only one moment, but it was. It

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Speaker 2: certainly wasn't lack of effort. I think, you know from

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Speaker 2: the All Blacks, but things just weren't clicking. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but someone comes on

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Speaker 2: and it takes it takes one kick, it takes one tackle,

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Speaker 2: that takes it's one moment, and you know, I think

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Speaker 2: that's what people talk about, is winning. You know, in

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Speaker 2: those games, it's it's winning the moments, winning the little things,

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Speaker 2: you know, and that's all it takes to turn people around.

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Speaker 3: Earlier in the game, how worried were you that the

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Speaker 3: thirty year unbeaten straight at Aden Park was going to fall.

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Speaker 2: Not so much in the first half, but certainly in

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Speaker 2: the second half. And I did say to Elliott that

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Speaker 2: I was. I was thinking, you know, to myself, I

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Speaker 2: was thinking, man, we're going to lose this. It's looking

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Speaker 2: like we were going to lose it. Then I looked

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Speaker 2: up and and I only the only reason I didn't

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Speaker 2: say it was because there was you know, there was

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Speaker 2: I think it was only about fifteen minutes into the

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Speaker 2: second half or something like that, and I was thinking,

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Speaker 2: it's too early, it's too early early to make a

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Speaker 2: call like that. But I did think it, So I wasn't,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I wasn't even worried about the you know,

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Speaker 2: the thirty years. I was worried about losing the game,

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Speaker 2: you know, at that time. But I actually played in

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Speaker 2: that that game thirty years ago too, which makes me feel,

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Speaker 2: you know, a way a lot older now. But uh,

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Speaker 2: you know that the good thing is that we we

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Speaker 2: we crawled our way out, you know, and had some

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Speaker 2: good moments, finished a whole lot stronger, and I think

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Speaker 2: the English did fade, you know a bit once the

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Speaker 2: All Black onslaughts sort of came and then you know,

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Speaker 2: enable us to get away. But certainly it did cross

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Speaker 2: my mind we were going to lose that test.

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Speaker 3: He talked about Body obviously, and he's he's the headline today.

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Speaker 3: But Courtiz without are coming on probably a bit earlier

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Speaker 3: than he would have expected us and like Christie having

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Speaker 3: to go off with an h I A. How impressed

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Speaker 3: were you with courtiz on debut?

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Speaker 2: Oh great, you know, he's he's just carried on from

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Speaker 2: his from his super rugby form and he's been he's

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Speaker 2: been there for you know, a couple of years. He's

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Speaker 2: been a young fellow, but you know he's he's been

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Speaker 2: there or thereabouts for for a number of years now,

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Speaker 2: so you know, really he he was a part of it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, body, Body was the main man. As you say,

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Speaker 2: he's he's getting all the rep but Cortez was you know,

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Speaker 2: he was a big part of that snappy you know,

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Speaker 2: just just straight into the game. And you know it

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Speaker 2: was the speed of the game, the All Blacks, the tempo,

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Speaker 2: you know, they it was markedly different. Once he came

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Speaker 2: on but you know, Findlay Christie unfortunately got the injury.

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Speaker 2: But it turned out to be you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: kind of the spark the moment that that we needed.

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Speaker 3: A lot of talk about England's approach to defense, their

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Speaker 3: rush defense. So this isn't new BUNSI I mean, the

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Speaker 3: opposition defenders used to get up on your face as

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Speaker 3: well as a midfield back. How is it best combated?

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Speaker 2: It's a really difficult one because done well, it's it's

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Speaker 2: you know, it's so effective. And I think was it

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Speaker 2: the spring box who first you know, started using it,

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Speaker 2: you know, properly against us and when we struggled for ages.

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Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know that there's you know, there's

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Speaker 2: there's one thing that you can do, you know, to

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Speaker 2: to to defend against it. But really it's just a

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Speaker 2: matter of there's I mean, there's there's a few options

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Speaker 2: of you know, people fly up, you kick into that

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Speaker 2: little space behind them more you get the Fords. Really,

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Speaker 2: the Fords are the ones that need to give you

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Speaker 2: the front football. You know, for me, it's it's to

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Speaker 2: take the opportunity away from them, you know, to actually

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Speaker 2: do that. And not everybody in the team, you know,

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Speaker 2: has the ability to make that rush defense work. So

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Speaker 2: you know, you tie up the guys that can do it,

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Speaker 2: tie up the backs, the inside backs or the midfielders

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Speaker 2: who do do it really successfully, and you tie them

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Speaker 2: up in a rock and them all and then you

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Speaker 2: move the ball away the same direction and you've got

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Speaker 2: you know a lot of the time, you've got forwards

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Speaker 2: there and tight forwards that you can create those mismatches.

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Speaker 2: But it's a you know, done well, it's like really

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Speaker 2: really effective and it's hard to combat.

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Speaker 3: So two tight test matches to start Scott Robertson's reign

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Speaker 3: as coach. How happy do you reckon he'll be after

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Speaker 3: these two test matches?

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Speaker 2: I think he will be guarded if well, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that's the thing that he does actually, but

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Speaker 2: he you'll definitely be be happy and grateful about the

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Speaker 2: two wins the way. You know, we've come away unbeaten

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Speaker 2: from a very good English team who are who are

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Speaker 2: on the rise, no doubt about that. But I think

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Speaker 2: he'll realize that, you know, this is a different beast

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Speaker 2: from from Super Rugby and there's a there's certainly a

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Speaker 2: lot of work to do. You know that that line

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Speaker 2: out everyone's talking about that. You know, that needs a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of work, and there's there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: ways that ye know, there's there's so many ways that

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Speaker 2: you know, you can be upset, you know, in getting

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Speaker 2: your set piece. But they've got to put some work

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Speaker 2: into that. And and it's a periods where you know,

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Speaker 2: we we make a whole lot of mistakes really that

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Speaker 2: we we shouldn't be making at this level. But I

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Speaker 2: think he's going to be pretty happy with with his

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Speaker 2: first sort of foray into into the international game. And

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Speaker 2: and bearing in mind he beat England, who know, easy beats,

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Speaker 2: you know, at the best of times. So you know there,

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Speaker 2: as I said before, they're on the up and and

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Speaker 2: he's beaten them into you know, either test could have

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Speaker 2: gone either way. So you know, you got that's a

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Speaker 2: that's a positive you've got. He's got to take that away.

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Speaker 2: And now he's got to just put his head down

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Speaker 2: different beasts. You know, Fiji is a it's a whole

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Speaker 2: different ballgame. So no, I think if I think he

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Speaker 2: will come away pretty satisfied.

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Speaker 3: Can you say the way he wants them to play?

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Speaker 3: Can you say this fingerprints on the or blacks or.

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Speaker 2: Or not not. I can't. I can't at the moment,

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Speaker 2: but you know, there are certainly certainly trying to play

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Speaker 2: at pace. I think I think he's still settling. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's and it's also game plans for different teams. I don't,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, you know, I don't. I don't really,

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Speaker 2: I'm not able to read a game like that, to

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Speaker 2: be honest, you know, I sort of I'm sort of

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Speaker 2: in the moment, you know, what's happening in the moment.

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Speaker 2: But if I if I had to stop and look,

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Speaker 2: you know, it'd look for an overall game play. And

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Speaker 2: I'm never being really that good at that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what you were got at was

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Speaker 3: was it the moment stuff? Last night? Loved having you

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Speaker 3: in the commentary with us, Bonsei. Thanks for joining us today, mate,

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Speaker 3: and I think we got you for the Fiji game

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Speaker 3: next week as well.

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Speaker 2: Have we? Yes, yes, yes, that'll be an interesting one.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately we didn't make the plane to gan Diego, but yes.

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Speaker 3: We'll do it. From the warmth of our studio, Beck

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Speaker 3: here and all. I enjoyed the risk of your eye. Frank,

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Speaker 3: thanks for.

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Speaker 2: Having a chat mate, Jeers Bunny, thanks, no, thank you.

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Speaker 3: By, that's Frank Bunz.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talk st B weekends from midday, or follow

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