Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 1: I'd be act.
Speaker 2: MP Karen Tuer has said that Parliament no no longer
Speaker 2: feels like a safe work environment for her after the
Speaker 2: recent debate around youth offender boot camps and other legislation
Speaker 2: has turned from criticism against legislation to personal attacks against her,
Speaker 2: much of this coming from Tapati Mari saying what quote
Speaker 2: is the quote here? How sad that you have been
Speaker 2: made a puppet of your party and posting on social
Speaker 2: media that she was raised Parkire with a disconnection and
Speaker 2: disdain for her people, and she isn't the first to
Speaker 2: highlight the hardships of being in Parliament, but is it
Speaker 2: getting too much with the personal attacks and the tone
Speaker 2: of the whole place. Joining me is former Speaker of
Speaker 2: the House David Carter. Good afternoon, Good afternoon too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thanks for your time. How closely have you been following
Speaker 2: Parliament in the last little while in the tone of
Speaker 2: these debates and attacks?
Speaker 3: I certainly don't watch Parliament on a daily basis. I
Speaker 3: think I think watched it once, so I've left. I
Speaker 3: spent twenty six years in question time. But however, I
Speaker 3: do keep in touch with media. I certainly watched news
Speaker 3: everything most nights, so I can sense that the tone
Speaker 3: of Parliament is declined and it's a worry to me,
Speaker 3: particularly with regards to race relations.
Speaker 2: Is it just a question of some politicians needing to
Speaker 2: lift their game?
Speaker 3: Well, I think yes, but this idea, Yes, yes it is.
Speaker 3: It's the short answer to question. But identifying which of
Speaker 3: those politicians need to lift their game is a more
Speaker 3: difficult question. They all are mature people. They've all been
Speaker 3: elected legally to Parliament and the voters that elected those
Speaker 3: people expect them to be responsible adults and to behave
Speaker 3: that way and to be there certainly to argue their
Speaker 3: party's policies, et cetera. But they should all be there
Speaker 3: for the one thing, and that's to make mow Zilds
Speaker 3: a better.
Speaker 2: Place on the issue of race. And of course we've
Speaker 2: got the Tree Prince Principal's Bill as well, with that
Speaker 2: active brought forward. Are we actually no, not a we? Sorry?
Speaker 2: Are the people in Parliament actually capable of having a
Speaker 2: discussion on this in a civilized way or need to
Speaker 2: take it off the table for them like a bunch
Speaker 2: of toddles who can't aground which toy to play with?
Speaker 3: No, I think we should be able to have a
Speaker 3: rational debate. And if you go back to the Marini
Speaker 3: Party when it was formed in two thousand and four
Speaker 3: and then they came into the John Key government that
Speaker 3: I was paid off in two thousand and eight, you
Speaker 3: had people like Tariana Turia. Didn't have to agree with
Speaker 3: everything she said. You have people like Petter Sharple's. You
Speaker 3: didn't have to agree with everything he said, but you
Speaker 3: could have a rational debate. It seems to me that
Speaker 3: at the moment it's difficult to have a rational debate
Speaker 3: with current members of the Mary Party. I think many
Speaker 3: times if you try and have a debate with them,
Speaker 3: then sadly they accuse you of being racist. Let's settle down,
Speaker 3: debate the issues, not attack the people, and I think
Speaker 3: that would be the way we've got to improve race
Speaker 3: relations in New Zealand.
Speaker 2: What role does the speaker have in this, because there
Speaker 2: are some who have suggested that, you know, there's far
Speaker 2: too much tolerance for accusations flowing one way than the other.
Speaker 2: I mean, can you imagine the outrage if someone was
Speaker 2: accused of betraying their parque our origins? Origins, we'd all
Speaker 2: be reaching for the smelling salts.
Speaker 3: The speakers in a difficult position, but ultimately the responsibility
Speaker 3: rests with him. If there are snide bullying remarks being
Speaker 3: made in the Titles of Parliament between one member and another,
Speaker 3: and that creates a bullying atmosphere, then you could argue
Speaker 3: it's no longer a safe workplace. In that case, I
Speaker 3: guess the legal responsibility probably goes back to the General
Speaker 3: Manager of Parliamentary Service. But who is the Minister for
Speaker 3: Parliamentary Service. It's the current Speaker, right Honorable Jerry Brownlee.
Speaker 3: So in that respect, whatever's happening outside the house he
Speaker 3: is still responsible for when you move it into the
Speaker 3: debating chamber. As the Speaker and particularly presiding over question
Speaker 3: time each day that Parliament sits, he is the ultimate
Speaker 3: determinant and the ultimate control of that of the procedure
Speaker 3: within Parliament at question time, and therefore he has to
Speaker 3: accept responsibility, listen to the argments of perform and he
Speaker 3: must all accordingly.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, so I mean it's difficult without offering criticism
Speaker 2: what he's doing. But what can you imagine what would
Speaker 2: you suggest might be an approach that a Speaker could
Speaker 2: take with these personal attacks.
Speaker 3: Well as I say, they occur within parliament. I'm not
Speaker 3: a regular watcher a question time, but there are things
Speaker 3: said at Parliament and the reporter to him. I think
Speaker 3: he needs to call that member out he's made a
Speaker 3: remark that's unsatisfactory, asked that member to withdraw and apologize.
Speaker 3: That's the sort of control that I would have exercised
Speaker 3: when I was spector. If it's occurring outside Parliament, outside
Speaker 3: the debating chamber, it's a little more difficult for him
Speaker 3: because there'll be the head she said type attitude. He's
Speaker 3: got to their attempt to try and find out what's happening.
Speaker 3: But the Business Committee that he chairs meets every Tuesday.
Speaker 3: He's got the opportunity at those meetings to get the
Speaker 3: whips of all parties together and say, come on, guys,
Speaker 3: this is about the reputation of New Zealand's democracy. We're
Speaker 3: meant to be adults here. Let's stop this sort of behavior.
Speaker 2: So John Key at the National Party AGM has talked
Speaker 2: about we need to turn down the temperature a little
Speaker 2: bit on the race relations. Do you think that's going
Speaker 2: to happen? We are we going to find it within
Speaker 2: ourselves to call it. I mean, we can hope so,
Speaker 2: but do you think what's your prediction because I can't
Speaker 2: imagine it don't getting anywhere. But worse.
Speaker 3: No, I think we all members of Parliament have a
Speaker 3: responsibility to tone it down and they need to work
Speaker 3: collectively to do so. Otherwise it used to become star
Speaker 3: wors for New Zealand. I know of people who recently
Speaker 3: left New Zealand to go to Australia. You ask them why,
Speaker 3: they never would be say, oh, I think I'll be
Speaker 3: financially better off. Talking a lit bit deeper when a
Speaker 3: two them say we're worried about race relations in this country.
Speaker 3: That's not a satisfactory situation. And all parliamentarians elected by
Speaker 3: the people of New Zealand have a responsibility to recognize
Speaker 3: the temperature has got a lot higher and they collectively
Speaker 3: need to do something about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, hey David, I really appreciate your time this afternoon.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Thanks Jim.
Speaker 2: Okay, bye bye. That's former Speaker. That's David Cardiff.
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