WEBVTT - David Carter: The Maori Party make debating difficult

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd be act.

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<v Speaker 2>MP Karen Tuer has said that Parliament no no longer

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<v Speaker 2>feels like a safe work environment for her after the

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<v Speaker 2>recent debate around youth offender boot camps and other legislation

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<v Speaker 2>has turned from criticism against legislation to personal attacks against her,

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<v Speaker 2>much of this coming from Tapati Mari saying what quote

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<v Speaker 2>is the quote here? How sad that you have been

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<v Speaker 2>made a puppet of your party and posting on social

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<v Speaker 2>media that she was raised Parkire with a disconnection and

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<v Speaker 2>disdain for her people, and she isn't the first to

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<v Speaker 2>highlight the hardships of being in Parliament, but is it

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<v Speaker 2>getting too much with the personal attacks and the tone

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<v Speaker 2>of the whole place. Joining me is former Speaker of

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<v Speaker 2>the House David Carter. Good afternoon, Good afternoon too. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>thanks for your time. How closely have you been following

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<v Speaker 2>Parliament in the last little while in the tone of

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<v Speaker 2>these debates and attacks?

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<v Speaker 3>I certainly don't watch Parliament on a daily basis. I

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<v Speaker 3>think I think watched it once, so I've left. I

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<v Speaker 3>spent twenty six years in question time. But however, I

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<v Speaker 3>do keep in touch with media. I certainly watched news

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<v Speaker 3>everything most nights, so I can sense that the tone

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<v Speaker 3>of Parliament is declined and it's a worry to me,

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<v Speaker 3>particularly with regards to race relations.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it just a question of some politicians needing to

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<v Speaker 2>lift their game?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think yes, but this idea, Yes, yes it is.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the short answer to question. But identifying which of

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<v Speaker 3>those politicians need to lift their game is a more

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<v Speaker 3>difficult question. They all are mature people. They've all been

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<v Speaker 3>elected legally to Parliament and the voters that elected those

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<v Speaker 3>people expect them to be responsible adults and to behave

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<v Speaker 3>that way and to be there certainly to argue their

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<v Speaker 3>party's policies, et cetera. But they should all be there

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<v Speaker 3>for the one thing, and that's to make mow Zilds

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<v Speaker 3>a better.

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<v Speaker 2>Place on the issue of race. And of course we've

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<v Speaker 2>got the Tree Prince Principal's Bill as well, with that

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<v Speaker 2>active brought forward. Are we actually no, not a we? Sorry?

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<v Speaker 2>Are the people in Parliament actually capable of having a

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<v Speaker 2>discussion on this in a civilized way or need to

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<v Speaker 2>take it off the table for them like a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of toddles who can't aground which toy to play with?

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<v Speaker 3>No, I think we should be able to have a

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<v Speaker 3>rational debate. And if you go back to the Marini

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<v Speaker 3>Party when it was formed in two thousand and four

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<v Speaker 3>and then they came into the John Key government that

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<v Speaker 3>I was paid off in two thousand and eight, you

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<v Speaker 3>had people like Tariana Turia. Didn't have to agree with

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<v Speaker 3>everything she said. You have people like Petter Sharple's. You

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<v Speaker 3>didn't have to agree with everything he said, but you

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<v Speaker 3>could have a rational debate. It seems to me that

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<v Speaker 3>at the moment it's difficult to have a rational debate

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<v Speaker 3>with current members of the Mary Party. I think many

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<v Speaker 3>times if you try and have a debate with them,

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<v Speaker 3>then sadly they accuse you of being racist. Let's settle down,

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<v Speaker 3>debate the issues, not attack the people, and I think

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<v Speaker 3>that would be the way we've got to improve race

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<v Speaker 3>relations in New Zealand.

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<v Speaker 2>What role does the speaker have in this, because there

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<v Speaker 2>are some who have suggested that, you know, there's far

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<v Speaker 2>too much tolerance for accusations flowing one way than the other.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, can you imagine the outrage if someone was

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<v Speaker 2>accused of betraying their parque our origins? Origins, we'd all

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<v Speaker 2>be reaching for the smelling salts.

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<v Speaker 3>The speakers in a difficult position, but ultimately the responsibility

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<v Speaker 3>rests with him. If there are snide bullying remarks being

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<v Speaker 3>made in the Titles of Parliament between one member and another,

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<v Speaker 3>and that creates a bullying atmosphere, then you could argue

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<v Speaker 3>it's no longer a safe workplace. In that case, I

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<v Speaker 3>guess the legal responsibility probably goes back to the General

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<v Speaker 3>Manager of Parliamentary Service. But who is the Minister for

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<v Speaker 3>Parliamentary Service. It's the current Speaker, right Honorable Jerry Brownlee.

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<v Speaker 3>So in that respect, whatever's happening outside the house he

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<v Speaker 3>is still responsible for when you move it into the

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<v Speaker 3>debating chamber. As the Speaker and particularly presiding over question

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<v Speaker 3>time each day that Parliament sits, he is the ultimate

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<v Speaker 3>determinant and the ultimate control of that of the procedure

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<v Speaker 3>within Parliament at question time, and therefore he has to

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<v Speaker 3>accept responsibility, listen to the argments of perform and he

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<v Speaker 3>must all accordingly.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, so I mean it's difficult without offering criticism

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<v Speaker 2>what he's doing. But what can you imagine what would

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<v Speaker 2>you suggest might be an approach that a Speaker could

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<v Speaker 2>take with these personal attacks.

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<v Speaker 3>Well as I say, they occur within parliament. I'm not

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<v Speaker 3>a regular watcher a question time, but there are things

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<v Speaker 3>said at Parliament and the reporter to him. I think

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<v Speaker 3>he needs to call that member out he's made a

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<v Speaker 3>remark that's unsatisfactory, asked that member to withdraw and apologize.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the sort of control that I would have exercised

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<v Speaker 3>when I was spector. If it's occurring outside Parliament, outside

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<v Speaker 3>the debating chamber, it's a little more difficult for him

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<v Speaker 3>because there'll be the head she said type attitude. He's

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<v Speaker 3>got to their attempt to try and find out what's happening.

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<v Speaker 3>But the Business Committee that he chairs meets every Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 3>He's got the opportunity at those meetings to get the

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<v Speaker 3>whips of all parties together and say, come on, guys,

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<v Speaker 3>this is about the reputation of New Zealand's democracy. We're

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<v Speaker 3>meant to be adults here. Let's stop this sort of behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>So John Key at the National Party AGM has talked

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<v Speaker 2>about we need to turn down the temperature a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit on the race relations. Do you think that's going

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<v Speaker 2>to happen? We are we going to find it within

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<v Speaker 2>ourselves to call it. I mean, we can hope so,

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<v Speaker 2>but do you think what's your prediction because I can't

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<v Speaker 2>imagine it don't getting anywhere. But worse.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I think we all members of Parliament have a

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<v Speaker 3>responsibility to tone it down and they need to work

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<v Speaker 3>collectively to do so. Otherwise it used to become star

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<v Speaker 3>wors for New Zealand. I know of people who recently

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<v Speaker 3>left New Zealand to go to Australia. You ask them why,

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<v Speaker 3>they never would be say, oh, I think I'll be

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<v Speaker 3>financially better off. Talking a lit bit deeper when a

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<v Speaker 3>two them say we're worried about race relations in this country.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not a satisfactory situation. And all parliamentarians elected by

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<v Speaker 3>the people of New Zealand have a responsibility to recognize

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<v Speaker 3>the temperature has got a lot higher and they collectively

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<v Speaker 3>need to do something about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, hey David, I really appreciate your time this afternoon.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks so much, Thanks Jim.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, bye bye. That's former Speaker. That's David Cardiff.

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<v Speaker 1>For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News

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