1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Finance Minister Nichola Williss is with us as per usual 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: on a Monday. Hey Nikola, Hey, he that after speaking 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: to Chris Bishop about it about an hour ago, I think 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: I have realized we are not really in the running 5 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: at all for hosting the America's Cup. Would that be fair? 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 2: Well? First things first, it's awesome that we won, and 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: it's very exciting, not just as a sporting achievement but 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: for the designers, the builders, the sailors, the scientists, everyone involved. 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: So let's actually take a little moment to celebrate that. 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: Second thing. I'm not normally one to blow smoke, but 11 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: there is a various stute commentator who has said recently 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: that it is a business decision for Grant Delta as 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: to where he wishes the Cup to take place, and 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 2: it is a business decision for New Zealand too. Yes, 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 2: And that is stute commentator being you. I think that, 16 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: thank you for listening. You've put it well, which is 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: that ultimately it is up to Team New Zealand to 18 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: decide where they wish to host it, and they will 19 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: make that judgment based on all number of things which 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: are outside our control. And then there is a question 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 2: if they ask us about what contribution we might be 22 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: prepared to make, and we need to be very hard 23 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: headed about that because dollars are precious and dollars can 24 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: go to many purposes, including schools and hospitals. 25 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: So are we waiting for them to come to us 26 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: rather than us chasing it with them? 27 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: That's right. We'll wait for them to come to us 28 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: here and as ultimately it's their decision. 29 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: Okay, hey, listen, this thing about Health New Zealand that 30 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: blows my mind is why they think they need to 31 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: have this conference in the first place. Of three hundred people. 32 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: Can you understand this? 33 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: Well? Look, the first I learned of it was today. 34 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: I do accept that when you've got big organizations that 35 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: are spread across the country, there can be value in 36 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: bringing leaders together to talk about what can we do 37 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 2: together to drive productivity, to drive value for money, to 38 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: get better results for our patients. And I understand that 39 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: was the intent of this event. There's no intention to 40 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: repeat it. And I note that subsequent to that event, 41 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: of course, the government chose to send in the commissioners. 42 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: The board has been replaced by a commissioner who has 43 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: an absolute drive and goal to get resources to the 44 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: front line for patients. 45 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: I get that. I get that about leaders But how 46 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: big is cabinet? Is it twenty people? 47 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: Twenty and it's in cabinet? 48 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: That is how big a leadership size is, right, That's 49 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: how many people you get together to make decisions, not 50 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: three hundred. That's taking the mickey, isn't it. 51 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I understand this was three hundred people, and 52 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: ultimately it's up to each organization to judge how it 53 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: will get good value. And I've been very explicit with 54 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: government entities that I expect them to be able to 55 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: demonstrate that their activities are going to deliver value to 56 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: the front line. And I also have made it clear 57 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: that I expect them not to continue with activities that 58 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: aren't delivering results for people. So that's the measure. 59 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: Okay, do you know the actual final cost of this conference, 60 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: because as far as I can see, we haven't actually 61 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: factored in flights andccommodation for these three hundred. 62 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: No, I don't have that number. I understand that. I 63 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: understand from the reporting on it that those who attending 64 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 2: the conference were encouraged to coincide that with other engagements 65 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: and meetings that they needed to have for business reasons. 66 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, is it worth? I mean, has it got 67 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: to the point where the public service where you guys 68 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,119 Speaker 1: actually need to put it in very simple terms to them, 69 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: no more conferences like this. 70 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: Well, we are making it very clear that we expect 71 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: them to be very rigorous about how they use public 72 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: money and the most effective lever we have for achieving that. 73 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: Heather is making it clear that there's not going to 74 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: be abundant supplies of money into the future. We're not 75 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: going to keep filling up the money jar like the 76 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: last government did it. Because when people can look forward 77 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: to noodle's more cash every time a budget rolls around, 78 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: then there's no need to tighten their belts. But when 79 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: they see that, actually the cost of doing all of 80 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: these conferences and consultations and all of that stuff is 81 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: that we might not then have enough money for the 82 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: essential people in our organization. Well, any public agency is 83 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: going to make more sensible decisions, and that's the situation 84 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: they are in with this government. 85 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: Do you feel vindicated by that inflation number last week 86 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: that showed that tax cuts were not really inflationary at all? 87 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: You know what I do? I do because I will 88 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: never forget the conger line of people in the election 89 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: campaign who wanted to tell us that tax relief would 90 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: be inflationary. I'll never forget Chris Hopkins and Barbara Edmonds 91 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: wanting to stop New Zealanders keeping more of their hard 92 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: earned money because they said it was going to drive inflation. 93 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: It was never going to do that. It hasn't done that. 94 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: We delivered tax relief and low inflation and dropping interest rates. 95 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: And I'm really pleased for New Zealanders. But that's the case. 96 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm reading in the week I'm reading the weekend papers 97 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: and something. There's this long interview with you and something 98 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: something fascinated me. They said, overall, Nikola Willis thinks that 99 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: the time for aggressive economic reform is right, and then 100 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: quotes you are saying, I am more impatient and more 101 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: reform minded. What are you thinking. 102 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: What I'm thinking is that I have met with so 103 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: many New Zealanders who have said to me, New Zealand 104 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: can't go on like this, limping along with slow growth, 105 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: talking about the same problems, whether that's declining achievement, low productivity, 106 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: long waiting lists. We have to be prepared to do 107 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: things differently and take bolder steps and so our government. 108 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: Here, Nicola, Are you still there? 109 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: Yes, let's do some bold stuff. 110 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got you. Okay, So what are you sorry? 111 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: We just lost you for a techi there? 112 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: So I was having quite I was waxing quite lyrical there. 113 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: No, it was so brief. We only lost you for 114 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: a second. What we've got the essence of it is 115 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 1: what are you thinking? Like, how bold are you thinking? 116 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: What are the areas you think we need some significant reforming. 117 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: Well, we've been very clear that education reform is necessary. Yeah, 118 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: to deliver the basics brilliantly, and we are shaking up 119 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: the schools. We're clear that we need to get more 120 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: overseas investment in this country to create better paying jobs, 121 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: and that means loosening the laws of the land to 122 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: allow that to happen, and being very clear that we're 123 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: going to roll out the welcomes. It's also about being 124 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: far more minded towards competition. So you've seen me talk 125 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: about the banks, but it's also about the regulatory settings 126 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 2: across a number of other sectors. On infrastructure, we've had 127 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: enough with the consent in Quagma. We're cutting through the RIMA. 128 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: We're doing that fast track consenting. There's been protests on 129 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: Queen Street, but I think New Zealanders want to see 130 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 2: development and growth and those projects will deliver it. We're 131 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: going to invite private capital and to help us build 132 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: some roads, help us build some of the infrastructure New 133 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: Zealand needs for the future. And then on the science system, 134 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: we've had enough of the debate about whether or not 135 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: we need gene editing. We're bringing in being editing regulator 136 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: and we're getting on with it. So across the board, 137 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: we are making big changes because this moment in history 138 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: demands it of us. 139 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: On the foreign money stuff, are you prepared to cut 140 00:06:58,120 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: the corporate tax rate? 141 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: Well, that would come with a significant cost, and the 142 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: thing I'm always conscious of is it wouldn't just attract 143 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: new investors, it would also involve giving potentially quite a 144 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: windfall gain to the likes of the big banks, the 145 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: big tailcos the exhibit. So to my mind, we need 146 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: to think about the text system's role in incentivizing investment 147 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: and productivity, and there are always new things we can 148 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: be considering there. We certainly shouldn't be considering things that 149 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: tell people they shouldn't grow their capital and they shouldn't 150 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,119 Speaker 2: grow their productivity, and so we need to remain open 151 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: to that. But we're also and I've been really clear 152 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: about this, we're fiscally constrained. I have a job to 153 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 2: do to get the books back in order, so anything 154 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: we do we have to be able to pay for. 155 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: Okay, did you read about best Start in the papers today? 156 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: I haven't read about that. 157 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: These are the childcare people who declared themselves a charity 158 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: about nine years ago and therefore oh and had a 159 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: sale to facilitate the transition into it charity. Now they 160 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: don't pay any tax. I think you should go and 161 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: read about that and then tell me when you're going 162 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: to start taxing the charities. 163 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: I know that if my IID people were here, they 164 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: would tell me it would be most unwise to comment 165 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: on the tax of fears of an individual organization. But 166 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 2: what we have put on the Tax Policy Work Program 167 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: the Minister of Revenue and I is another look at 168 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 2: the charity sector to make sure that the rules there 169 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: are working fairly and that they're not being abused. 170 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: And when we get a decision from you guys on. 171 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: That, well, the deadline that I've set at a budget 172 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: next year and I have not taken any proposals to 173 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: cabinet as yet. 174 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: Good stuff. Hey Nichola, thanks very much, really appreciate it, 175 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: and thank you for listening to the show. Nichola Willis 176 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: Finance Minister. 177 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 178 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: news talks they'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 179 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.