1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: What a miserable week for William Lawson, a dream shattered. 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: As the news officially was released, as you well know, 3 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: overnight Lawson to racing Bullsonoda to the top team. Of course, 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Christen Hornet called it the sporting decision and they had 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: a duty of care to protect and develop laws in 6 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: the BBC formula. And correspondent Andrew Binson's back, whether it's 7 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: Andrew morning to you morning, this has been a you know, 8 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: as you would understand, a mess of story in this 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: part of the world. How it seems to me to 10 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: be global as well. Has it been a big deal 11 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: where you are? 12 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty massive everywhere. Actually, it's quite an extraordinary turn 13 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: of events, doesn't it. Give a guy a chance three 14 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 2: months ago, give him two races, and then flick him 15 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: for the guy you thought wasn't good enough when you 16 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: gave him the drive in the first place. So I 17 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 2: think most of them one is like what. 18 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you put it like that, they almost seem 19 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: a nipped, are they? 20 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: Well it's not for me to say, is it, But 21 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: certainly lots of people are asking serious questions about this. 22 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: It goes right back to well, even perhaps before, but 23 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: certainly right back to last spring when Serge of Perez's 24 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: performances were beginning to tail off again for the second 25 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: year running, and yet Red Bull gave him a new 26 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: two year contract at the end of twenty twenty six. 27 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: Then he had a really bad season. They paid him 28 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: off at the end of the year put Lawson in 29 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 2: even though you know, he's only done eleven Grand Prix 30 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: before he started this season, and Sonoda, who was his 31 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: teammates at Racing Bulls or RB as it was called 32 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: last year, had done four seasons. Now they were pretty 33 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: evenly matched, but on most metrics, Snoda probably just about 34 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 2: edged it against Lawson in their time together. But still 35 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: they picked Lawson because they thought he was the guy 36 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: with the best potential. They didn't trust Snoda in terms 37 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: of mentality resilience going up against Max de Stappen in 38 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: the senior team and two races in you know before 39 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: Lawson's even driven on a track that he knows. You know, 40 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: this weekend next weekend in Japan is the first track 41 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: that he's been to before. Out of these races. At 42 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: the start of the year, they've got rid of him. Now. 43 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: Lawson obviously didn't have a very good start to the season, 44 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: there's no question about that, but you really have to 45 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: question if he was if he was the right guy 46 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: in December should assume a bit more chats. Yeah. 47 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: I note that helmet make this morning said it was 48 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: a mistake and he hasn't handled it mentally, and that 49 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: they couldn't have talked up as mental stability more at 50 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: the time. This duty of care line that Horner's running 51 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: this morning is for a really cutthroat team. Do we 52 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: believe that? I mean, on one hand, you talk us 53 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: about peerios, and you're right, they wanted to give them surety, 54 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: to give them confidence that look good. And then the 55 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: next thing, this second I can't work out what they're about. 56 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think it smacks a little bit of trying 57 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: to dress it up as best they can. You know, 58 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: this is not a duty of care, is it, by 59 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 2: any stretch of the imagination getting rid of someone after 60 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: two races. The duty of care is to give him 61 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: chance to try and perform a bit better. Put your 62 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 2: arm around his shoulder, talk to him about what's going wrong. 63 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: I mean, from Lawson's point of view, Actually, I don't 64 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: think this is all negative. You know, there are other 65 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: drivers who Red Bull have rejected and have rebuilt their careers. 66 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: Look at Alix Alban, who's not Williams and very well 67 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: respected in One one, Pierre Gasly who's gone to Alpine 68 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: earning lots of money as their kind of lead driver 69 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: at the moment. So I think if Lawson deals with 70 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: this with a positive mindset, he can go back to 71 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: racing bulls. He can perform strongly. I think he probably 72 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: needs to get out of the red bull driver fold 73 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: as soon as he can. But if he performs strongly 74 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: at racing bulls, he's got every chance of doing that 75 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: and he could still have a long and successful Formula 76 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 2: One career. 77 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: They're making a little bit of Thos mex for Stepans 78 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: liked an Instagram post from Guido Vanderguarde saying that he 79 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: was bullied out. The fact that mex has liked the 80 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: post has been seen as Mechs being unhappy again. How 81 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: much weight do you place on mex as unhappy and 82 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: eventually will end up somewhere else. 83 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: Well, it's very interesting that post because Vastapan is not 84 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: the only Formula One driver who's liked it. So is 85 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: Oscar Piastre, So is Niko Holkenberg. So has Pierre Ghasly. 86 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: That's four out of twenty Formula One drivers or four 87 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: out of the other nineteen, if you like, who have 88 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: kind of what appears to be expressed their displeasure with 89 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: the way Red Bull have behaved. I don't think we 90 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: should presume what Verstappan thinks until we've spoken to him 91 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: in a week's time in Japan. But I have heard 92 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: on the grape vine. I mean, he was making it 93 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 2: pretty clear at the weekend in China that he, you know, 94 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: he didn't think it was the driver's fault in the 95 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: second Red Bull. He was you know, he thinks the 96 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: car is what's the problem is. You know, he thinks 97 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: it's the fourth fastest car on the grid. So I 98 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: think there are a lot of questions that need to 99 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: be addressed at the team, not just about their drivers choices. 100 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: You know, they've lost Adrian Nui, the you know, the 101 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: design guru who's gone to ask the Martin They've not 102 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: They've apparently lost competitiveness relatively over the over the winter. 103 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: So what's going on there? And if the cars are 104 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: this difficult to drive? We know that the Stappen's a genius. 105 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: Is Sonoda going to do any better than laws. And 106 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: these are all interesting questions. 107 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I'm interested in Andrew and you're taking Liam 108 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: from from the outside, and obviously we're obsessed about him. 109 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: He's not. He's a likable guy. Yes, he's skilled, because 110 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: he wouldn't be an IF one, But what's your view 111 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: of him as a driver? 112 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: Well, until this, until this certain turn of events, he 113 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: was he'd looked like a very decent Formula One driver, 114 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: you know, he'd acquitted himself well, and those eleven Grand 115 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: Prix spread over the two seats. The two previous seasons, 116 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: he'd been aggressive and robust, you know, racing wheel to 117 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: wheel with the likes of Fernando al on So last 118 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: year and Perez, you know, not making any friends. But 119 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: then from the one drivers aren't out to make friends. 120 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: He seems like a very personable guy when you meet him. 121 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: But to be honest with you, the last two races 122 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: in Australia and China, he's looked like a rabbit caught 123 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 2: in the headlights. He's looked like someone who was really struggling, 124 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: couldn't get his head around why it wasn't working with 125 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: the car quite how the car was so difficult It 126 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: did look like he was struggling. I have to say, 127 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: you know, you would catch glimpses of him while he 128 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: was waiting to be interviewed on camera, for example, and 129 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: he just looked, you know, it looked like it looked 130 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: completely shell shocked. Things like that. But you know, I'm 131 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 2: sure he'll be able to bounce back from this. Certainly 132 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 2: people hope so. But he needs to think about it positively. 133 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: It's very hard to think about that now. You can 134 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: see how he must be thinking. All his dreams have 135 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: been shattered. But as long as he thinks positively, thinks right, 136 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to go out there. I'm going to prove 137 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: them wrong. He can still he can still maintain a 138 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 2: career going on. 139 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: And Andrew not to catch up. Appreciate it very much. 140 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: Andrew Binson, who's with the BBC's Formula one correspondent Nix 141 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: Race this coming weekend week in of course Japan. For 142 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. 143 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 144 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio