WEBVTT - Surviving the empty nest with Kerre Woodham 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:10.760 I'm Francesca Rudkin and I'm Louise Area. And this is 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.200 season four of our New Zealand Herald podcast The Little. 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.119 Things, a podcast where we have common sense conversations about 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.680 women's well being at all ages and stages. And today 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:21.920 we're going to talk about a stage that most parents 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.560 go through at some point, dealing with the empty or 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.640 emptying nest. Now, at this time the year, parents are 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.160 saying goodbye to their teenagers. And I think it'd be 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:31.640 fair to say to we's they're all dealing. 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.400 With it differently. Well, if you or I are any example, 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.040 we've dealt with it differently ourselves. But yeah, leaving home 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.680 as a ride of passage for both the parents and 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.239 the child, and it comes at different times. It might 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.320 be like it might be earlier, it might be boarding school, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.120 it might be tertiary education. They could just go on 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.839 their ioe or leave home for a job. 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.720 Or finally maybe finally appearance dis comps enough, yeah to go. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.320 And I mean I didn't leave home until quite late. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:00:58.720 I was. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:01.720 Probably about twenty. 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:06.440 Yeah, but my fist, why would you exactly? That's what 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.720 I said to my kids. But anyway, look, I mean 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:11.960 it is something they will do, and it is a 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.679 universal experience. But we should, in my opinion, we should 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.240 be careful what we wish for because eventually it just 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.480 feels like this child sized gap at the dining table, 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.559 and it comes around faster than I'd like, But does it, 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.920 Because doesn't it feel like it'd spend a long seventeen 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:27.960 or eighteen years. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.679 I mean that might just be me, but I love 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.200 it because you say that all the time and I'm 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.600 looking at you going, I don't know, Lou, it feels 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.440 like been parenting for a while. I feel like it 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.760 comes at the perfect stage. It's like the perfect I 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.720 remember when the kids went to Kendy Well, the kids 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:45.920 went to school. You went, oh, someone's really thought about this. 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:47.280 Three is a good time for you to go after 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:48.760 Kenny five. It's a good time for you to go 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:49.280 off to school. 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.040 That's true. I don't feel like, you know, everybody wants you. 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.800 When you have children, it goes fast, right and then 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.440 and then there is that really busy, busy, busy baby 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.040 period and I don't know if is a kasmin gap 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.760 and then they're gone. That was yeah, maybe I'm. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.960 Just a bit more sentiarty, but you've had to leave 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.880 now and Ted has just finished university. Congratulations to the graduate. 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:11.760 It's very exciting. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:12.320 You're excited. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.280 Your daughter May is just starting at the University of Canterbury. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:20.240 How would their departures well, you know, you know franchise gap. Well, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.840 I might share it with our audience. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.080 Well and my kids. No, I have often wonder if 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:26.520 I have a bit of a weird reaction to the 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.639 kids leaving, because I get sad and then I get angry, 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.760 like really quite cross. And I did some research into 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.079 this because I was quite baffled, like, there's this a 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.840 normal reaction, What's wrong with me? But it is a 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.960 normal reaction. I mean, I'm sure less than fifty percent probably, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.359 But it's to do with a sadness and a lack 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.520 of control because my kids are becoming more independent and 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.680 so yeah, it's quite an admission, isn't it. I am 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.640 an angry mother when it comes to my kids leaving 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:56.000 the nest. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:57.040 That is interesting. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:58.840 Yeah, I wouldn't have thought. 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:00.920 I mean I wouldn't you know, we need being like 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.520 a helicopter parent or anything like that. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.840 That well, I would be compared to my parents' standards, 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.000 but maybe not today's standards. But what I would say 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:11.560 is I'm. 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.320 Just thinking of the control aspect you're talking about. 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, totally. And I think it's because 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:20.280 I get snotty when people say, well, they're eighteen now, 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.320 they're adults, because Francesca, they're not. Are they not? 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:23.720 Really? 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.800 We're still paying for them, We're still emotionally supporting them. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.960 I mean, this isn't all cases. I'm talking personally, and 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.200 so I'm a bit like they get all the benefits 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.920 of their independence. I'm still doing all the all the 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.480 hard work. And I think that's where the irritation sets that. 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:45.240 Actually, when you say control, it's more just it's not 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.760 trying to control their lives. It's just knowing that things 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.480 are sorted and done, almost, isn't it. 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:51.839 Well, there's a lot of things that you're doing, isn't there? 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:53.720 Would that be fair to say it's not so much 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.120 that you want to direct them and tell them what 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:56.720 to do all the time and control their lives and 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.320 you know, scenes are and things like that. So when 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:00.880 you say that word, it kind of comes with quite 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.360 a lot of connotations. Yeah, but actually what you're saying, well, 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.560 I think what you're sort of implying when you say, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.760 you know you're losing that control is just knowing that 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.200 everything's sorted and everything's done and everything, and you've kind 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:13.160 of got to give it up to them. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.240 Yeah, that I'm not seeing them face to face to 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.520 check on their daily well being. That does sound like, 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.520 doesn't it. I think you're being very honest about that. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.560 I think it's very stute of you as well to 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.920 kind of work out that those are the how you're 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.440 feeling about it. I mean, I don't think it's straightforward 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:30.880 for anybody. I think a lot of parents are surprised 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.440 by how this moment feels. My partner was kind of, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.480 you know, mourning the loss of our first child leaving. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.120 He's like, I'm going to be so sad. This is 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.960 going to be so sad. And he took our son 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.520 down to university and settled him in at the beginning 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.159 of February and came home and went, oh, I'm fine. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:48.599 He found the whole thing of dropping him off really 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.960 emotional and walking around the university again and reminiscing about 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.000 his own time, and he was really emotional. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.799 By the time he got back home to Auckland. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:00.400 He's kind of said, but like me, yeah, yeah, And 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:02.239 there are times we're thinking about him all the time 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:07.039 and love him dearly, but actually we're surprised at the 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.640 moment that we're kind of okay. 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.480 Look, and I think you're right. It does come at 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.880 the right time for different people, and you know when 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.040 they're really really ready, And it might depend a little 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:23.240 bit on Oscar's enthusiasm and how excited he was to go. Absolutely, 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.360 this is a child who's feeling really apprehensive at that. 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.960 Absolutely, so this was his dream, It all worked out, 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.480 he worked really hard for it, it all fell into place, 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.120 so we were thrilled for him. So he was so 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.200 excited to go, So that makes it easier for me 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.800 to be excited about it as opposed to sort of 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.440 focusing on the sad part. I know about you, but 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:45.400 I wonder too whether we've been preparing for it for 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.919 a little while, and maybe more so than our partners 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.080 have or the dads have, because you know, it felt 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.560 like for six months we were organizing university applications, we 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.919 were organizing hall applications, we were getting study links sorted, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.880 you know, get your full license, do this, get your vaccinations, 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.159 Like there was a lot I felt like as much 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.520 as Oscar did it all himself. There was a lot 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.920 of kind of preparing or preparation for him to leave. 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.240 It wasn't like it hit me as a shock. I 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.960 felt like we've been working towards it for quite a while. 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.360 Are you suggesting, Francisca, that as the woman in the household, 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:20.839 you took a bit of that mental load. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.960 I might have been holding on to a bit of 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.160 mental load there anyone I've spoken to, whether their child's 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:27.960 going to union, whether they're going over to the States, 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.320 or whether and are we it will more than likely 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.200 I'm making generalization here, be maybe the woman who is 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.479 driving it or assessing with all of that stuff. And 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:39.760 I think I also, I'd like to think this was 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.080 slightly mature of me. That was, but I was also 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.839 aware that our relationship needs to go to another level 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:51.520 now and I need to accept that he's an independent 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.280 young man and that we're going to be Our relationship 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:56.960 is going to be on a slightly different level, and 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:01.120 I think it's going to be better if he left. Look, 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.039 I'm going to be honest. I love him so so 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:06.880 much and I do miss him, and I have had 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.440 a couple of tiny moments, like cleaning out after I 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:11.960 finally cleaned out his bedroom, which I thought, you know, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.240 was his job to do. And I cleaned that out, 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:15.680 and I looked and I went, oh, yeah, he has gone. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.280 And I have had little moments, but I am. I 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:19.840 am sort of all good about this. But I didn't 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:21.960 think myself, this is a very expensive way to grow up, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:25.920 and there's a very expensive, privileged way to grow up. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.720 But I do believe that the relationship will kind of 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.040 go to another level. And do you know what, I'm 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:31.800 taking that whole chestnut that you do as a parent, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.080 that whole you know, if your kid is unhappy, the 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.120 parent's unhappy. If your kids fine, you're fine. That's the 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.040 attitude taking. At the moment, he is fine, he is 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.680 living the dream. So I'm not going to worry because 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.280 I know there's going to be ups and downs stirt 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.320 the year. I know there will be hurdles and things 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:48.800 that come along. 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.560 Will worry when there's something, so I will. 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.600 Worry when there's something to worry about. You mentioned the 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.200 sadness and the anger. Were you expecting to feel like 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.960 that and was it different the second time around? 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.600 Well, yeah, so the first time around, my son was 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.680 a bit more super enthusiastic and super goal oriented and 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.760 absolutely knew one hundred percent why he was going what 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.880 he was going for, and he was also going with 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.040 his girlfriend and mates. So he kind of, you know, 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:20.600 shut the door and did a little back and I 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.640 think that's where the little seed of irritation grew. It's like, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.880 wait a minute, you haven't got to this point without 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.280 without us. And you know, it wasn't that I expect 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.560 him to be gushy with gratitude. It was just more that, oh, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:37.040 just like that. Okay, So yeah, no worries worth The 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.079 second one less one hundred percent focused on what it 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:41.960 was that she wants to do, still lots of and 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.360 we've always encouraged her. She's a bright girl. We've always 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.720 encouraged her to think of lots of options, and now 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.000 I'm starting to think perhaps we should have, you know, 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:50.679 pushed it towards a certain goal. So there was a 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.719 little bit of hesitation on both about parts of is 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.560 this the one hundred percent the right thing to be doing? 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.319 And then you know, the dog died. 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:57.960 Oh you had a bad week. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.280 I died like a few days before she left, So 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.599 there was a lot of there was a bad additional 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.440 gree in the family. So it just got's gone about 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.760 as much as I expected to that afterpart the I 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.520 didn't go with her, as you know, my son was 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:14.440 already down there, my sister was down there. They said 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.440 little and it went as it expected. But I will 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.679 say the three of us left me, my husband and 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.000 my sixteen year old are settling in nicely. We make 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.760 a cute little team. We should make a cute little tea. 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.960 Not that we don't mess terribly and her can't misses 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.920 her terribly, but we're good. Yeah, we're all right. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:32.040 That's good. I'm pleased to hear. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.760 No no big angsty arguments over the phone with the 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:36.400 second one. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.840 Okay, well, they're all different, aren't they. I've got a 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.160 bit of a theory though about mums and sons, and 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:44.800 I don't know if you'd agree with this, but I 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.720 think that I struggled more with the loss. And you'll 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.560 remember this, with the loss of my gorgeous young boy. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.160 When puberty hit, you know that stage when they go 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.280 from sort of they're so cuddly and overly enthusiastic about 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.439 everything and they're communicative, and they turn into grunters who 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.000 can't remember why they crossed the room, and you remember 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.040 just saying to here, I just I don't, I can't. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.839 Who is this child that I can't They don't communicate 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:11.480 and I can't talk to them, and where is this 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.439 boy gone? And everything? And you said to me, it's okay, 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:17.839 he'll be back a couple of years later. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.000 If finally, Oh, you were right. It was a little 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:20.720 longer than I thought. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.400 But I wonder whether that it was almost like grief. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.120 I had that. 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.120 For that goal experience. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.800 When you know that that mothers have when their sons 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.200 around thirteen is a bit of an opportunity for them 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.559 to slowly start preparing to let their boys go at eighteen. 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:40.680 It's just a theory, but I just, oh, I like 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:41.120 that theory. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.120 And I think there is a term of individuating. If 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:48.280 you don't individuate from your family, I think we probably 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.040 can all think of people we've known who have failed 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.200 to launch, or even ourselves sometimes failed to launch. But 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.520 they have to unless there's some reason that they can't. 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.679 They do need to individuate from their family. And so 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.720 that's where I settle down and rationalize and sit in 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.240 that feeling and go, oh, this is okay for me 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.240 to feel angry, but it's not okay for me to 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.439 put it on them. This is just life actually. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.880 But look, we still both have one at home. I 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.320 think when the final child leaves, that'll hit me, you know, 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.280 oh my gosh, my kids have their own lives. But 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.520 you know, in the meantime, it's all good. 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:21.359 Yeah. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.960 Well, look we are very still, very much in the 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.400 thick of this Epnionese phase, and so you know, we 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.640 thought we could do some perspective, didn't we. So we 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.640 decided we'd talk to someone who's been through it all, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.320 dealt with her daughter living overseas and it's gone full 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.000 circle to be back living with her daughter and grandchildren. 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.880 So today we have also columnists and host of news 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.440 Talk zb's Mornings, Carrie Wouldham. Welcome, Carrie Hi. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.160 Carrie Hi team, thank you very much for being with us. 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:47.000 My pleasure. 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.680 Can you I was gonna say, can you remember, but 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.320 that implies that it was a long time ago. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.280 It was kind of a long time ago. 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:55.160 I did Kate leave home. 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.560 She lived when she was eighteen, so that was, you know, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:04.120 eighteen years ago, and yeah, so left she was still 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.520 in the same city, but she left to go flatting 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:08.360 when she went to Uni. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.120 And how did you cope with that? 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.360 It was okay because I knew she was in the 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.480 same city, but I anticipated feeling a sense of loss 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.800 because I loved having the girls and the guys coming 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.960 around and getting ready to go out for their big nights. 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.719 And they were so gorgeous and so much fun. And 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.960 I love the fact that they'd come around on the 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.400 weekend for pool parties and I'd learn new music from them, 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.560 and they were just vibrant and young and gorgeous and 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.679 just delightful to be around, interesting different perspectives. And then 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.920 she was gone, and they were gone, and they were gone, 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.480 because you don't just lose your daughter, you lose that 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:54.600 whole company of friends. They're gorgeous, young people, and you're 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:59.240 left with the man who loves to watch television and 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:03.079 put phones on his ears and watch television. And then 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:03.560 there was me. 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.960 Yeah, yeah, I didn't think about the friends that we 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:07.480 were losing to. 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.560 No, No, I'm sorry to enter. It's funny you say that, 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.600 because whenever I do talk to my son, it's only 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.360 been a month, but I'm always asking about everybody else 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:16.960 as well, and how so and so has And you 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:17.840 can't get any information. 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.120 They are just divine young people to be around. And 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.839 you know, a couple of Kate's friends and my son 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.480 and laws friends who are married now met on my 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.559 fiftieth birthday, you know, well, not met, they knew each other, 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.120 but they got together on my fiftieth birthday, which is 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.920 just lovely, you know. So that should give you hope 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:38.559 that they do still stay in your lives. 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.800 So did you react the way you thought you would 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.040 or was there anything that kind of surprised you or 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:44.840 took you by surprise. 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.920 No. I knew that I'd miss Kate terribly and her 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.280 friends when she was gone, because she was my proxy 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.440 going out person because my then husband really didn't like 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.160 going out. Why would I want to go out and close? 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.240 I don't want to go to meet people I don't 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.680 want to meet to talk about things I'm not interested in, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.800 which was a compelling point, you know. So Kate would 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.840 come with me and she was my really call plus one, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.120 So I knew I was losing that when she left. 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:14.840 Were you working? 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:15.480 Oh? 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.199 God, yes, you were, always you always were. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:18.160 I've worked since I was. 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:18.800 Seven, Yeen. 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.240 Does that make a difference? Do you think having something 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.080 else in your life hugely saying goodbye hugely, Like if. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.080 My work had been at home, if my job was 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.600 to be a homemaker, which I think is a really 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.800 important job, I would be devastated because what is your purpose? 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.280 What is your reason? When that reason has left you, 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:40.760 abandoned you. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.440 I guess that, you know, you'd hope perhaps that people 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.440 for whom that has been their primary role have hopefully 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.160 given that some thought and made sure they've got other 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.160 things in their life for when it comes. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:52.520 Otherwise it's a big wrench. 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:53.400 It's a big wrench. 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.440 Yeah, yeah, and hopefully they have I mean most most 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.520 men and women who are homemakers. That's not just it. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.160 You know, they do have groups and friendship groups and 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.880 interest groups. But yes, I imagine it would be a 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:16.360 big wrench. But I suppose mercifully the year that she 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.240 was the first year that she went flatting, I'd been 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.960 asked to run my first marathon, and i'd also, you know, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.920 so that that took a lot of time and a 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.320 lot of training and was a great distraction for me. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.840 So then I ran the Aukland Marathon. Then I was 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.000 asked to write a book about that, and then I 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:39.120 ran the New York marathon, and then I became a 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.240 spokesperson for paper Plus, which involved going around the country 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:47.000 hosting author evenings, which took up enormous amount of time 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:51.000 and was enormous amounts of fun. And so that filled. 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.400 The time running marathons and writing books like Carrie. That's 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.040 quite that, you know, you think about it quite an. 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.480 Extreme rame with people to deal with it, but. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.280 A lot of I am extreme way extraorin. 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.480 Actually that's great because you actually recognize I do have 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.920 my time back. I can make decisions about what I 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:07.880 do with my time. 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.640 Yes, and that's a good thing. Yeah, it is, And 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:12.920 you can fill it in a really purposeful way. Mine 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.880 was accidental. You know. If somebody had said the way 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.160 you'll fill time when Kate leaves home, mister on marathons, 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.120 I would have you know, I wouldn't have thought that 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.120 was a viable option, shall we say? But it does 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.760 mean that you can fill your life in a purposeful 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:32.920 way and do things perhaps that you never imagined you 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:33.720 might be able to. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.720 I also think if all of our children are different 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.080 and they're all ready to leave at different times, there 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.080 are some that just stay too long, you know, and 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.400 they need to be booted out. But everyone's kind of 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.520 ready to go when they're ready to go. But I 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.160 think when they do go, you should pack yourself on 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.680 the back as a parent, because actually, if you've raised 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.600 a kid to be independent and to be brave enough 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:58.920 to gout me independent, you've done your job, you know, 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.040 so you should we should actually be celebrating it as 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.840 a sign of this is awesome, This is what you're 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.359 supposed to do. This is a sign that you know. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.240 Well, I mean, when did you leave home? 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.760 I stayed at home for my first year of UNI 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.320 because I went to UNI in the same city, yeah, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:15.960 maybe the second or third year. 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.399 And sensibly having come fresh out of a Catholic boarding school, 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:22.919 my mum and dad put me with an Irish Catholic 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.280 aunt and her family in Wellington because I would have 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.399 been a disaster if I'd stayed in a flat or 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:33.880 in student accommodation. You know, I had naive Catholic girl 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.920 to get heard across my forehead. Please take me anybody, now, 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.200 you know, it was just I would have been a disaster, 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.320 so I was insulated, awe. But then I was off 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.880 and away, from the age of seventeen eighteen around the country. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.159 Doing you know, working in Ready in New Zealand and 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.680 far flung spaces, and you know, eighteen I think is 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.440 about right. But for me, and it was for Kate too, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:58.120 at least. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.960 She was in the same city school in seventh four 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.200 to two, so I had my parents would have over sea, 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.159 so we'd had time apart and things like that, and 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:07.240 I did have some independence. 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.120 I felt like my son was a mere fetus, as 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:10.440 you know, I think I said to you, it feels 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.040 like someone's ripped him from my work. He was seventeen. 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.360 I think it was also additional grief for the idea 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.840 that he was leaving his siblings behind. And they were 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.560 quite young, so I mean, no, I don't know how 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.239 rold would head being thirteen, and it just seemed like, oh, 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.080