Speaker 1: I'm Francesca Rudkin and I'm Louise Area. And this is
Speaker 1: season four of our New Zealand Herald podcast The Little.
Speaker 2: Things, a podcast where we have common sense conversations about
Speaker 2: women's well being at all ages and stages. And today
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about a stage that most parents
Speaker 2: go through at some point, dealing with the empty or
Speaker 2: emptying nest. Now, at this time the year, parents are
Speaker 2: saying goodbye to their teenagers. And I think it'd be
Speaker 2: fair to say to we's they're all dealing.
Speaker 1: With it differently. Well, if you or I are any example,
Speaker 1: we've dealt with it differently ourselves. But yeah, leaving home
Speaker 1: as a ride of passage for both the parents and
Speaker 1: the child, and it comes at different times. It might
Speaker 1: be like it might be earlier, it might be boarding school,
Speaker 1: it might be tertiary education. They could just go on
Speaker 1: their ioe or leave home for a job.
Speaker 2: Or finally maybe finally appearance dis comps enough, yeah to go.
Speaker 1: And I mean I didn't leave home until quite late.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: Probably about twenty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but my fist, why would you exactly? That's what
Speaker 1: I said to my kids. But anyway, look, I mean
Speaker 1: it is something they will do, and it is a
Speaker 1: universal experience. But we should, in my opinion, we should
Speaker 1: be careful what we wish for because eventually it just
Speaker 1: feels like this child sized gap at the dining table,
Speaker 1: and it comes around faster than I'd like, But does it,
Speaker 1: Because doesn't it feel like it'd spend a long seventeen
Speaker 1: or eighteen years.
Speaker 2: I mean that might just be me, but I love
Speaker 2: it because you say that all the time and I'm
Speaker 2: looking at you going, I don't know, Lou, it feels
Speaker 2: like been parenting for a while. I feel like it
Speaker 2: comes at the perfect stage. It's like the perfect I
Speaker 2: remember when the kids went to Kendy Well, the kids
Speaker 2: went to school. You went, oh, someone's really thought about this.
Speaker 2: Three is a good time for you to go after
Speaker 2: Kenny five. It's a good time for you to go
Speaker 2: off to school.
Speaker 1: That's true. I don't feel like, you know, everybody wants you.
Speaker 1: When you have children, it goes fast, right and then
Speaker 1: and then there is that really busy, busy, busy baby
Speaker 1: period and I don't know if is a kasmin gap
Speaker 1: and then they're gone. That was yeah, maybe I'm.
Speaker 2: Just a bit more sentiarty, but you've had to leave
Speaker 2: now and Ted has just finished university. Congratulations to the graduate.
Speaker 2: It's very exciting.
Speaker 1: You're excited.
Speaker 2: Your daughter May is just starting at the University of Canterbury.
Speaker 2: How would their departures well, you know, you know franchise gap. Well,
Speaker 2: I might share it with our audience.
Speaker 1: Well and my kids. No, I have often wonder if
Speaker 1: I have a bit of a weird reaction to the
Speaker 1: kids leaving, because I get sad and then I get angry,
Speaker 1: like really quite cross. And I did some research into
Speaker 1: this because I was quite baffled, like, there's this a
Speaker 1: normal reaction, What's wrong with me? But it is a
Speaker 1: normal reaction. I mean, I'm sure less than fifty percent probably,
Speaker 1: But it's to do with a sadness and a lack
Speaker 1: of control because my kids are becoming more independent and
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's quite an admission, isn't it. I am
Speaker 1: an angry mother when it comes to my kids leaving
Speaker 1: the nest.
Speaker 2: That is interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wouldn't have thought.
Speaker 2: I mean I wouldn't you know, we need being like
Speaker 2: a helicopter parent or anything like that.
Speaker 1: That well, I would be compared to my parents' standards,
Speaker 1: but maybe not today's standards. But what I would say
Speaker 1: is I'm.
Speaker 2: Just thinking of the control aspect you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, totally. And I think it's because
Speaker 1: I get snotty when people say, well, they're eighteen now,
Speaker 1: they're adults, because Francesca, they're not. Are they not?
Speaker 4: Really?
Speaker 1: We're still paying for them, We're still emotionally supporting them.
Speaker 1: I mean, this isn't all cases. I'm talking personally, and
Speaker 1: so I'm a bit like they get all the benefits
Speaker 1: of their independence. I'm still doing all the all the
Speaker 1: hard work. And I think that's where the irritation sets that.
Speaker 2: Actually, when you say control, it's more just it's not
Speaker 2: trying to control their lives. It's just knowing that things
Speaker 2: are sorted and done, almost, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of things that you're doing, isn't there?
Speaker 2: Would that be fair to say it's not so much
Speaker 2: that you want to direct them and tell them what
Speaker 2: to do all the time and control their lives and
Speaker 2: you know, scenes are and things like that. So when
Speaker 2: you say that word, it kind of comes with quite
Speaker 2: a lot of connotations. Yeah, but actually what you're saying, well,
Speaker 2: I think what you're sort of implying when you say,
Speaker 2: you know you're losing that control is just knowing that
Speaker 2: everything's sorted and everything's done and everything, and you've kind
Speaker 2: of got to give it up to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that I'm not seeing them face to face to
Speaker 1: check on their daily well being. That does sound like,
Speaker 1: doesn't it. I think you're being very honest about that.
Speaker 2: I think it's very stute of you as well to
Speaker 2: kind of work out that those are the how you're
Speaker 2: feeling about it. I mean, I don't think it's straightforward
Speaker 2: for anybody. I think a lot of parents are surprised
Speaker 2: by how this moment feels. My partner was kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, mourning the loss of our first child leaving.
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm going to be so sad. This is
Speaker 2: going to be so sad. And he took our son
Speaker 2: down to university and settled him in at the beginning
Speaker 2: of February and came home and went, oh, I'm fine.
Speaker 2: He found the whole thing of dropping him off really
Speaker 2: emotional and walking around the university again and reminiscing about
Speaker 2: his own time, and he was really emotional.
Speaker 4: By the time he got back home to Auckland.
Speaker 2: He's kind of said, but like me, yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 2: there are times we're thinking about him all the time
Speaker 2: and love him dearly, but actually we're surprised at the
Speaker 2: moment that we're kind of okay.
Speaker 1: Look, and I think you're right. It does come at
Speaker 1: the right time for different people, and you know when
Speaker 1: they're really really ready, And it might depend a little
Speaker 1: bit on Oscar's enthusiasm and how excited he was to go. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: this is a child who's feeling really apprehensive at that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so this was his dream, It all worked out,
Speaker 2: he worked really hard for it, it all fell into place,
Speaker 2: so we were thrilled for him. So he was so
Speaker 2: excited to go, So that makes it easier for me
Speaker 2: to be excited about it as opposed to sort of
Speaker 2: focusing on the sad part. I know about you, but
Speaker 2: I wonder too whether we've been preparing for it for
Speaker 2: a little while, and maybe more so than our partners
Speaker 2: have or the dads have, because you know, it felt
Speaker 2: like for six months we were organizing university applications, we
Speaker 2: were organizing hall applications, we were getting study links sorted,
Speaker 2: you know, get your full license, do this, get your vaccinations,
Speaker 2: Like there was a lot I felt like as much
Speaker 2: as Oscar did it all himself. There was a lot
Speaker 2: of kind of preparing or preparation for him to leave.
Speaker 2: It wasn't like it hit me as a shock. I
Speaker 2: felt like we've been working towards it for quite a while.
Speaker 1: Are you suggesting, Francisca, that as the woman in the household,
Speaker 1: you took a bit of that mental load.
Speaker 2: I might have been holding on to a bit of
Speaker 2: mental load there anyone I've spoken to, whether their child's
Speaker 2: going to union, whether they're going over to the States,
Speaker 2: or whether and are we it will more than likely
Speaker 2: I'm making generalization here, be maybe the woman who is
Speaker 2: driving it or assessing with all of that stuff. And
Speaker 2: I think I also, I'd like to think this was
Speaker 2: slightly mature of me. That was, but I was also
Speaker 2: aware that our relationship needs to go to another level
Speaker 2: now and I need to accept that he's an independent
Speaker 2: young man and that we're going to be Our relationship
Speaker 2: is going to be on a slightly different level, and
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be better if he left. Look,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be honest. I love him so so
Speaker 2: much and I do miss him, and I have had
Speaker 2: a couple of tiny moments, like cleaning out after I
Speaker 2: finally cleaned out his bedroom, which I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: was his job to do. And I cleaned that out,
Speaker 2: and I looked and I went, oh, yeah, he has gone.
Speaker 2: And I have had little moments, but I am. I
Speaker 2: am sort of all good about this. But I didn't
Speaker 2: think myself, this is a very expensive way to grow up,
Speaker 2: and there's a very expensive, privileged way to grow up.
Speaker 2: But I do believe that the relationship will kind of
Speaker 2: go to another level. And do you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: taking that whole chestnut that you do as a parent,
Speaker 2: that whole you know, if your kid is unhappy, the
Speaker 2: parent's unhappy. If your kids fine, you're fine. That's the
Speaker 2: attitude taking. At the moment, he is fine, he is
Speaker 2: living the dream. So I'm not going to worry because
Speaker 2: I know there's going to be ups and downs stirt
Speaker 2: the year. I know there will be hurdles and things
Speaker 2: that come along.
Speaker 1: Will worry when there's something, so I will.
Speaker 2: Worry when there's something to worry about. You mentioned the
Speaker 2: sadness and the anger. Were you expecting to feel like
Speaker 2: that and was it different the second time around?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, so the first time around, my son was
Speaker 1: a bit more super enthusiastic and super goal oriented and
Speaker 1: absolutely knew one hundred percent why he was going what
Speaker 1: he was going for, and he was also going with
Speaker 1: his girlfriend and mates. So he kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: shut the door and did a little back and I
Speaker 1: think that's where the little seed of irritation grew. It's like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you haven't got to this point without
Speaker 1: without us. And you know, it wasn't that I expect
Speaker 1: him to be gushy with gratitude. It was just more that, oh,
Speaker 1: just like that. Okay, So yeah, no worries worth The
Speaker 1: second one less one hundred percent focused on what it
Speaker 1: was that she wants to do, still lots of and
Speaker 1: we've always encouraged her. She's a bright girl. We've always
Speaker 1: encouraged her to think of lots of options, and now
Speaker 1: I'm starting to think perhaps we should have, you know,
Speaker 1: pushed it towards a certain goal. So there was a
Speaker 1: little bit of hesitation on both about parts of is
Speaker 1: this the one hundred percent the right thing to be doing?
Speaker 1: And then you know, the dog died.
Speaker 4: Oh you had a bad week.
Speaker 1: I died like a few days before she left, So
Speaker 1: there was a lot of there was a bad additional
Speaker 1: gree in the family. So it just got's gone about
Speaker 1: as much as I expected to that afterpart the I
Speaker 1: didn't go with her, as you know, my son was
Speaker 1: already down there, my sister was down there. They said
Speaker 1: little and it went as it expected. But I will
Speaker 1: say the three of us left me, my husband and
Speaker 1: my sixteen year old are settling in nicely. We make
Speaker 1: a cute little team. We should make a cute little tea.
Speaker 1: Not that we don't mess terribly and her can't misses
Speaker 1: her terribly, but we're good. Yeah, we're all right.
Speaker 2: That's good. I'm pleased to hear.
Speaker 1: No no big angsty arguments over the phone with the
Speaker 1: second one.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, they're all different, aren't they. I've got a
Speaker 2: bit of a theory though about mums and sons, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if you'd agree with this, but I
Speaker 2: think that I struggled more with the loss. And you'll
Speaker 2: remember this, with the loss of my gorgeous young boy.
Speaker 2: When puberty hit, you know that stage when they go
Speaker 2: from sort of they're so cuddly and overly enthusiastic about
Speaker 2: everything and they're communicative, and they turn into grunters who
Speaker 2: can't remember why they crossed the room, and you remember
Speaker 2: just saying to here, I just I don't, I can't.
Speaker 2: Who is this child that I can't They don't communicate
Speaker 2: and I can't talk to them, and where is this
Speaker 2: boy gone? And everything? And you said to me, it's okay,
Speaker 2: he'll be back a couple of years later.
Speaker 4: If finally, Oh, you were right. It was a little
Speaker 4: longer than I thought.
Speaker 2: But I wonder whether that it was almost like grief.
Speaker 2: I had that.
Speaker 1: For that goal experience.
Speaker 2: When you know that that mothers have when their sons
Speaker 2: around thirteen is a bit of an opportunity for them
Speaker 2: to slowly start preparing to let their boys go at eighteen.
Speaker 2: It's just a theory, but I just, oh, I like
Speaker 2: that theory.
Speaker 1: And I think there is a term of individuating. If
Speaker 1: you don't individuate from your family, I think we probably
Speaker 1: can all think of people we've known who have failed
Speaker 1: to launch, or even ourselves sometimes failed to launch. But
Speaker 1: they have to unless there's some reason that they can't.
Speaker 1: They do need to individuate from their family. And so
Speaker 1: that's where I settle down and rationalize and sit in
Speaker 1: that feeling and go, oh, this is okay for me
Speaker 1: to feel angry, but it's not okay for me to
Speaker 1: put it on them. This is just life actually.
Speaker 2: But look, we still both have one at home. I
Speaker 2: think when the final child leaves, that'll hit me, you know,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, my kids have their own lives. But
Speaker 2: you know, in the meantime, it's all good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, look we are very still, very much in the
Speaker 1: thick of this Epnionese phase, and so you know, we
Speaker 1: thought we could do some perspective, didn't we. So we
Speaker 1: decided we'd talk to someone who's been through it all,
Speaker 1: dealt with her daughter living overseas and it's gone full
Speaker 1: circle to be back living with her daughter and grandchildren.
Speaker 1: So today we have also columnists and host of news
Speaker 1: Talk zb's Mornings, Carrie Wouldham. Welcome, Carrie Hi.
Speaker 2: Carrie Hi team, thank you very much for being with us.
Speaker 3: My pleasure.
Speaker 2: Can you I was gonna say, can you remember, but
Speaker 2: that implies that it was a long time ago.
Speaker 3: It was kind of a long time ago.
Speaker 2: I did Kate leave home.
Speaker 3: She lived when she was eighteen, so that was, you know,
Speaker 3: eighteen years ago, and yeah, so left she was still
Speaker 3: in the same city, but she left to go flatting
Speaker 3: when she went to Uni.
Speaker 1: And how did you cope with that?
Speaker 3: It was okay because I knew she was in the
Speaker 3: same city, but I anticipated feeling a sense of loss
Speaker 3: because I loved having the girls and the guys coming
Speaker 3: around and getting ready to go out for their big nights.
Speaker 3: And they were so gorgeous and so much fun. And
Speaker 3: I love the fact that they'd come around on the
Speaker 3: weekend for pool parties and I'd learn new music from them,
Speaker 3: and they were just vibrant and young and gorgeous and
Speaker 3: just delightful to be around, interesting different perspectives. And then
Speaker 3: she was gone, and they were gone, and they were gone,
Speaker 3: because you don't just lose your daughter, you lose that
Speaker 3: whole company of friends. They're gorgeous, young people, and you're
Speaker 3: left with the man who loves to watch television and
Speaker 3: put phones on his ears and watch television. And then
Speaker 3: there was me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I didn't think about the friends that we
Speaker 1: were losing to.
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm sorry to enter. It's funny you say that,
Speaker 2: because whenever I do talk to my son, it's only
Speaker 2: been a month, but I'm always asking about everybody else
Speaker 2: as well, and how so and so has And you
Speaker 2: can't get any information.
Speaker 3: They are just divine young people to be around. And
Speaker 3: you know, a couple of Kate's friends and my son
Speaker 3: and laws friends who are married now met on my
Speaker 3: fiftieth birthday, you know, well, not met, they knew each other,
Speaker 3: but they got together on my fiftieth birthday, which is
Speaker 3: just lovely, you know. So that should give you hope
Speaker 3: that they do still stay in your lives.
Speaker 2: So did you react the way you thought you would
Speaker 2: or was there anything that kind of surprised you or
Speaker 2: took you by surprise.
Speaker 3: No. I knew that I'd miss Kate terribly and her
Speaker 3: friends when she was gone, because she was my proxy
Speaker 3: going out person because my then husband really didn't like
Speaker 3: going out. Why would I want to go out and close?
Speaker 3: I don't want to go to meet people I don't
Speaker 3: want to meet to talk about things I'm not interested in,
Speaker 3: which was a compelling point, you know. So Kate would
Speaker 3: come with me and she was my really call plus one,
Speaker 3: So I knew I was losing that when she left.
Speaker 2: Were you working?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: God, yes, you were, always you always were.
Speaker 3: I've worked since I was.
Speaker 1: Seven, Yeen.
Speaker 2: Does that make a difference? Do you think having something
Speaker 2: else in your life hugely saying goodbye hugely, Like if.
Speaker 3: My work had been at home, if my job was
Speaker 3: to be a homemaker, which I think is a really
Speaker 3: important job, I would be devastated because what is your purpose?
Speaker 3: What is your reason? When that reason has left you,
Speaker 3: abandoned you.
Speaker 1: I guess that, you know, you'd hope perhaps that people
Speaker 1: for whom that has been their primary role have hopefully
Speaker 1: given that some thought and made sure they've got other
Speaker 1: things in their life for when it comes.
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's a big wrench.
Speaker 1: It's a big wrench.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and hopefully they have I mean most most
Speaker 3: men and women who are homemakers. That's not just it.
Speaker 3: You know, they do have groups and friendship groups and
Speaker 3: interest groups. But yes, I imagine it would be a
Speaker 3: big wrench. But I suppose mercifully the year that she
Speaker 3: was the first year that she went flatting, I'd been
Speaker 3: asked to run my first marathon, and i'd also, you know,
Speaker 3: so that that took a lot of time and a
Speaker 3: lot of training and was a great distraction for me.
Speaker 3: So then I ran the Aukland Marathon. Then I was
Speaker 3: asked to write a book about that, and then I
Speaker 3: ran the New York marathon, and then I became a
Speaker 3: spokesperson for paper Plus, which involved going around the country
Speaker 3: hosting author evenings, which took up enormous amount of time
Speaker 3: and was enormous amounts of fun. And so that filled.
Speaker 2: The time running marathons and writing books like Carrie. That's
Speaker 2: quite that, you know, you think about it quite an.
Speaker 4: Extreme rame with people to deal with it, but.
Speaker 3: A lot of I am extreme way extraorin.
Speaker 2: Actually that's great because you actually recognize I do have
Speaker 2: my time back. I can make decisions about what I
Speaker 2: do with my time.
Speaker 3: Yes, and that's a good thing. Yeah, it is, And
Speaker 3: you can fill it in a really purposeful way. Mine
Speaker 3: was accidental. You know. If somebody had said the way
Speaker 3: you'll fill time when Kate leaves home, mister on marathons,
Speaker 3: I would have you know, I wouldn't have thought that
Speaker 3: was a viable option, shall we say? But it does
Speaker 3: mean that you can fill your life in a purposeful
Speaker 3: way and do things perhaps that you never imagined you
Speaker 3: might be able to.
Speaker 2: I also think if all of our children are different
Speaker 2: and they're all ready to leave at different times, there
Speaker 2: are some that just stay too long, you know, and
Speaker 2: they need to be booted out. But everyone's kind of
Speaker 2: ready to go when they're ready to go. But I
Speaker 2: think when they do go, you should pack yourself on
Speaker 2: the back as a parent, because actually, if you've raised
Speaker 2: a kid to be independent and to be brave enough
Speaker 2: to gout me independent, you've done your job, you know,
Speaker 2: so you should we should actually be celebrating it as
Speaker 2: a sign of this is awesome, This is what you're
Speaker 2: supposed to do. This is a sign that you know.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, when did you leave home?
Speaker 2: I stayed at home for my first year of UNI
Speaker 2: because I went to UNI in the same city, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe the second or third year.
Speaker 3: And sensibly having come fresh out of a Catholic boarding school,
Speaker 3: my mum and dad put me with an Irish Catholic
Speaker 3: aunt and her family in Wellington because I would have
Speaker 3: been a disaster if I'd stayed in a flat or
Speaker 3: in student accommodation. You know, I had naive Catholic girl
Speaker 3: to get heard across my forehead. Please take me anybody, now,
Speaker 3: you know, it was just I would have been a disaster,
Speaker 3: so I was insulated, awe. But then I was off
Speaker 3: and away, from the age of seventeen eighteen around the country.
Speaker 3: Doing you know, working in Ready in New Zealand and
Speaker 3: far flung spaces, and you know, eighteen I think is
Speaker 3: about right. But for me, and it was for Kate too,
Speaker 3: at least.
Speaker 2: She was in the same city school in seventh four
Speaker 2: to two, so I had my parents would have over sea,
Speaker 2: so we'd had time apart and things like that, and
Speaker 2: I did have some independence.
Speaker 1: I felt like my son was a mere fetus, as
Speaker 1: you know, I think I said to you, it feels
Speaker 1: like someone's ripped him from my work. He was seventeen.
Speaker 1: I think it was also additional grief for the idea
Speaker 1: that he was leaving his siblings behind. And they were
Speaker 1: quite young, so I mean, no, I don't know how
Speaker 1: rold would head being thirteen, and it just seemed like, oh,
Speaker 1: you haven't had enough time with them. Yeah, but they
Speaker 1: were fine. It was me. It was me, part of
Speaker 1: project Grief on Grief. But you know, he's twenty one
Speaker 1: now and he may have had a job opportunity here
Speaker 1: and there was the idea that he might come home
Speaker 1: and the youngest son now who's sixteen, went oh bloody, hell,
Speaker 1: I hope not. You know, I've just got this pad
Speaker 1: to myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So actually and they've got a great relationship.
Speaker 3: Do The thing that I'm really grateful for is that
Speaker 3: I wasn't going through menopause at the same time as
Speaker 3: Kate was leaving home, because that would be a double whammy.
Speaker 3: That would be horrific.
Speaker 2: It's a joking. Our family. My daughter just think it's hilarious.
Speaker 2: She's just like, well, that's what happens when you go
Speaker 2: through perimenopause, and I'm a puberty mum. It's just it's dynamite.
Speaker 3: Oh well, see, I was. I'm quite grateful I was
Speaker 3: out of the blocks quite young because I just turned
Speaker 3: twenty four when Kate was born, So when she left home,
Speaker 3: I donate I think it's forty one or forty two,
Speaker 3: and then it was years before bloody menopause, which is
Speaker 3: the most ridiculous form of production. I mean, it's just inefficient, you.
Speaker 2: Know it is.
Speaker 3: It least started me have to deal with that, but
Speaker 3: we actually the emotional kind of anguish that you have
Speaker 3: going through menopause, dealing with the fact that you're then
Speaker 3: also losing a child.
Speaker 1: And also it might be retrospective because as you're saying that,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, yeah, that probably was when I was
Speaker 1: in the thick of it when he left four years
Speaker 1: or three years later, got my head around all of that,
Speaker 1: and it's a lot more stable.
Speaker 3: I think you have to be really gentle with yourself,
Speaker 3: you know. And I remember Mum saying that she used
Speaker 3: to walk past my bedroom and cry because it was
Speaker 3: so neat.
Speaker 2: And isn't that what your dad?
Speaker 3: What are you? What are bloody doing? You know she's
Speaker 3: she's loving where she is.
Speaker 2: I why are you bloody crying? I haven't had many moments,
Speaker 2: but the one I did have was after I'd cleaned
Speaker 2: up Oscar's room and they went, oh, yeah, he has gone,
Speaker 2: he has he's going to stay this and then the
Speaker 2: cat moved one. It's hilarious, but you're absolutely right. I think,
Speaker 2: of course, we're all having our babies later, and what
Speaker 2: we're not thinking about is there's just going to be
Speaker 2: cat hormonal carnage at the same time. I mean, I
Speaker 2: do feel for the boys in our house at times.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got you've got two women at different
Speaker 2: ends of the spectrum going through sort.
Speaker 1: Of a that's actually that's why you can't really don't
Speaker 1: have an I probably didn't realize in that first year
Speaker 1: when my oldest sound left home that my husband was
Speaker 1: grieving too. Yes, his mate particularly, they had rugby in common,
Speaker 1: and he'd be the one, he will be the one
Speaker 1: that would entertain very long conversations about rugby. And so
Speaker 1: it was like, Dad, we're not interested, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's it was.
Speaker 3: But there's a reason why a lot of people go
Speaker 3: do lowly, you know. I think the men have their
Speaker 3: meno Porsche, you know, which is when they trade in
Speaker 3: the sensible family sedan in the form of the wife
Speaker 3: and the mother of their children, for the snazzy top
Speaker 3: down red sports car which is the much younger girl
Speaker 3: because they need to validate themselves too, you.
Speaker 1: Know that me, my husband coming for the live the car,
Speaker 1: all the women, So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's that kind of well, this is it,
Speaker 3: you know, now what because the really important phase of
Speaker 3: your life has come to an end of raising a
Speaker 3: beautiful adult, you know. And now what did Kate have
Speaker 3: any wobbles, No, none, whatsoever, although she did get married
Speaker 3: before she had graduated law school. So yeah, that she
Speaker 3: was married very young and had very clear ideas about
Speaker 3: how her family wanted to look, which will no resemblance
Speaker 3: to how she had been raised.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. We hate you the most her leaving home
Speaker 2: or deciding to get married.
Speaker 3: Oh, her leaving home. I was thrilled for her. But
Speaker 3: do you know that the most amazing sense of release
Speaker 3: when your child finds your adult child finds a partner
Speaker 3: that you think is worthy of them. You know that
Speaker 3: that is loved and supported and nurtured in a way
Speaker 3: that you you had done and that you dream that
Speaker 3: they will get. Because then you really do feel your
Speaker 3: jobs done. Then you know from now on it's just
Speaker 3: you know, the the chocolate flakes on top of the cherry,
Speaker 3: on top of the cake, because you know, I can
Speaker 3: leave this planet quite happily now knowing that everybody I
Speaker 3: love is safe.
Speaker 1: Gosh, that's something, isn't it. I must I agree with you.
Speaker 1: My son had quite a long term relationship and his
Speaker 1: teens and although maybe you could say that wasn't ideal,
Speaker 1: watching him be loved and really beautifully loved was did
Speaker 1: make me feel like, oh, we've done something else right.
Speaker 1: It's a tick in the box of having a healthy
Speaker 1: being able to be capable of having a healthy relationship.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: So that's something to look forward to, it is, Carrie,
Speaker 2: if Kate had wobbled or if she was struggling, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure there were times that she called with some
Speaker 2: issues or spoke to things. How do you deal with that, Because,
Speaker 2: as we've already said, all our kids are different. They
Speaker 2: head off on these adventures. Some it all goes swimmingly.
Speaker 2: You know, Oscar's gone to Canterbury with a girlfriend and
Speaker 2: his best mates and he's in heaven right, But that's
Speaker 2: not the same for everybody. So how do you from
Speaker 2: afar support without trying to control.
Speaker 3: The caring, not controlling, caring, not controlling. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Because she was in Auckland. If she needed me, she'd
Speaker 3: swing by. We used to go on holiday together. Sometimes
Speaker 3: she'd come with me on the marathon tours when I
Speaker 3: went to France and parrisonlike, wouldn't.
Speaker 1: You Yeah, I think holidays are really really important.
Speaker 3: Holidays together are great. But I just knew it was
Speaker 3: her time, you know, for her to be her, for
Speaker 3: her to because I'd had that time. I'd had that time,
Speaker 3: and I didn't necessarily want to see her grow up
Speaker 3: and make mistakes under my watch. I don't want to
Speaker 3: see her drunk, you know, that's for her friends to
Speaker 3: pick her up and sort her out. I didn't, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't think it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't want to see her make mistakes
Speaker 3: like I thought of myself, and I thought, I don't
Speaker 3: want to see myself like that. I don't want my
Speaker 3: mother to see it.
Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I've spoken to a few people in preparation for this,
Speaker 1: and a couple of tuesdays ago, I was pretty close
Speaker 1: to booking a flight down to christ Jurch and literally
Speaker 1: a woman came up to me who I've been talking
Speaker 1: about about the kids leaving and all that, and she said,
Speaker 1: take your finger off that button. No, you don't need
Speaker 1: to go. It was And then I talked to a
Speaker 1: few other people and they all said, oh, you've all
Speaker 1: had that lingering moment where you just look up. Can
Speaker 1: I get a flight today? How much is it going
Speaker 1: to cost me? Because your child's just merely said, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling a bit wobbly today. You know, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, they're fine.
Speaker 3: I remember Kate saying to me one day she might
Speaker 3: have even been married by them, but then she was
Speaker 3: married at twenty one, but she said to me, sometimes
Speaker 3: I just want to talk to you. I don't want
Speaker 3: you to fix it. I just want you to I
Speaker 3: just want to talk and if load, I don't want
Speaker 3: you to, right, Okay, Well we don't lah.
Speaker 1: You know, you think we'd have learned that without them
Speaker 1: having to tell us, wouldn't you? But we I guess
Speaker 1: we don't. That caring buttons pretty.
Speaker 3: Hard to kill the control them.
Speaker 1: Yes, the controlling fixing button is quite hard to turn off.
Speaker 3: But I mean, how do you stand by and watch
Speaker 3: somebody in pain, you know, if they're letting out a
Speaker 3: psychic graw. I don't blame you for wanting to get done,
Speaker 3: but I can't.
Speaker 2: Remember my partner coming home from work once instead of
Speaker 2: and he was just any to have event and everything,
Speaker 2: and I'd try and offer some sage advice.
Speaker 4: So can you just look to me one and he went,
Speaker 4: I just want a vent. I don't need a pep talk.
Speaker 2: I know all that, but he was right, And it's
Speaker 2: a bit the same, really, what you're talking about with
Speaker 2: these kids, They just want to know that there's some
Speaker 2: where they can go where they're not going to be judged.
Speaker 2: They can just be heard and listen to it and
Speaker 2: get it all out. Yeah, because there is a subtle
Speaker 2: shift in the relationship when they leave, they've headed out
Speaker 2: into the world. We want to treat them like young adults,
Speaker 2: aware of the fact they've got a lot to learn,
Speaker 2: a lot of experiences to go through and things and
Speaker 2: you can't fix everything. No, So I'm being really conscious
Speaker 2: at the moment of you know, I mean, I would
Speaker 2: love to just be able to ring my boy and go, hey,
Speaker 2: have you sorted this? And have you done that? And
Speaker 2: are you on top of the UNI work? And have
Speaker 2: you got that assignment? And and you can't. No, you
Speaker 2: can't just keep going back. You've got to kind of
Speaker 2: just go how's your week, I know, and let them
Speaker 2: open you know. But they're not good at sharing, so
Speaker 2: you just have to open it up. And then you
Speaker 2: sort of subtly might say, and how's the work going?
Speaker 2: And you're enjoying this and enjoying that. But it's about
Speaker 2: stepping back and going actually, it's on you now, my friend.
Speaker 2: This is what you want. You want the independence. You're
Speaker 2: a younger. Where's going to treat you like a young adult?
Speaker 3: You know? And I'm watching it because I think Kajun
Speaker 3: her husband are really good parents, really good parents. They
Speaker 3: don't fix things or create things, and like, I really
Speaker 3: admire the way they parent, and they don't fix everything
Speaker 3: for the kids, you know, they they you know, I've
Speaker 3: had to really stop myself from saying be careful, be
Speaker 3: careful around the grandchildren because they don't say that. They
Speaker 3: let them have a go around. If they fall off
Speaker 3: and cry for a bit, then they cry for a
Speaker 3: that's life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. We had a family gather and I
Speaker 1: think you guys were there and Tournia fell there and
Speaker 1: Ted was home for the holidays, and they were asking
Speaker 1: him how things were going on. And I wasn't really listening,
Speaker 1: but I did hear this. He said, you know what,
Speaker 1: I was on the bones of my ass ealier this year,
Speaker 1: and god, it was hard, it was awful and my
Speaker 1: heart just went into my stomach. And yeah, well, no,
Speaker 1: I would have if you had told me. But he'd
Speaker 1: made a conscious decision. I'm not asking this time. I'm
Speaker 1: going to do something about this. But he had to
Speaker 1: get to rock bottom. But it was interesting because he
Speaker 1: didn't tell me. He told them and I only overheard
Speaker 1: it later on that night. I said, you know, wish
Speaker 1: you told us it was such a struggle, and he goes,
Speaker 1: I work through it. It was fine because you'd.
Speaker 3: Have fussed tried to fix exactly, and they don't want to.
Speaker 3: They want to know that they're capable and strong and able,
Speaker 3: and I totally get that. And I think the best
Speaker 3: thing Kate and her husband did was to fly to London,
Speaker 3: you know, and build a life of their own over there.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that in just a moment.
Speaker 2: You're listening to The Little Things, and our guest on
Speaker 2: the podcast today is the News Talks Here to be
Speaker 2: morning's host, Kerrie Would It will be back shortly after
Speaker 2: this break.
Speaker 4: This is The Little Things.
Speaker 2: So, Carrie, you mentioned just before your daughter heading overseas,
Speaker 2: which is the next step. And I'm sure there's lots
Speaker 2: of pearance at the moment dealing with kids heading off
Speaker 2: on oe's and things. How did that feel?
Speaker 3: I was really excited for them. I would have probably
Speaker 3: felt differently if she'd been going off on her own
Speaker 3: to join friends who were already over there, but she
Speaker 3: was going with her husband, and I just saw these
Speaker 3: two gorgeous young souls, just brave and foolish, and you know,
Speaker 3: going off as so many the other Key Wee kids
Speaker 3: have done to take on the world. You know, did
Speaker 3: you feel the distance though, No, because I knew and
Speaker 3: that only comes with having the money in the bank
Speaker 3: to be able to do so that I could be
Speaker 3: there in twenty four thirty six hours. You know, I
Speaker 3: knew I was, and that worked out, Like when jumping
Speaker 3: ahead when they had the second baby. Kate was so
Speaker 3: pregnant with her with Dora and her husband broke his leg.
Speaker 3: She was so hugely pregnant and had a little toddler
Speaker 3: and she just rang mom and I was. I was
Speaker 3: there in thirty six hours. But that that comes, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm well aware that that only comes with the financial
Speaker 3: privilege of being able to buy an air ticket and
Speaker 3: be there. If I didn't, if I knew I couldn't
Speaker 3: be there, or if it was the days of having
Speaker 3: to hop on an ocean line or and parp your
Speaker 3: way across, you know, that would be quite different if
Speaker 3: it was if I was just relying on aerograms.
Speaker 2: How often did you guys, Because communication is a really
Speaker 2: interesting thing as well, so we dealing with that not
Speaker 2: trying to over communicate.
Speaker 4: You know, you don't get a lot.
Speaker 2: Out of a teenage boy. To be honest with you,
Speaker 2: they're having a good time and they're having a great time.
Speaker 2: So we have a scheduled call every Sundayay and at
Speaker 2: a time that suits him. And we just cacked up
Speaker 2: on the week that's been in the weak ahead, and
Speaker 2: anything else that comes throughout the week is a little extra.
Speaker 2: But I'm not trying not to push it. But you've
Speaker 2: got you've got your child who's on the other side
Speaker 2: of the world with her husband, but now they're having
Speaker 2: babies and things like that.
Speaker 3: You know, I was a bit desperate about that, but
Speaker 3: I was able to get over and see them. They
Speaker 3: were able to get over come back and see me.
Speaker 3: There was one ropeie time before the babies were born,
Speaker 3: when Kate was working as a nanny and was in
Speaker 3: Greece on an island in Greece somewhere, and it all
Speaker 3: went pear shaped with a pearents and she was catching
Speaker 3: the first flight out but on this resort she couldn't
Speaker 3: get off until the morning. So I just stayed up
Speaker 3: all night with her on Facebook. And again, how lucky
Speaker 3: were we to have that communication, that form of community.
Speaker 3: So we opened a bottle of wine and she opened
Speaker 3: a bottle of wine and we just you know, sat
Speaker 3: through the night, was safely on a pointment.
Speaker 1: I've got a million different ways of keeping in touch.
Speaker 3: It's not that flimsy blue eerogram.
Speaker 2: I don't know so many of those that my mother
Speaker 2: sent me when I was on my oh.
Speaker 1: Even with now, I mean, we often just seemed a
Speaker 1: real or something. You know, every day there'll be some
Speaker 1: sort of we played as something, yeah, something to chicken,
Speaker 1: but when gosh, I mean, I didn't give my My
Speaker 1: parents had nine children between them, so you know, when
Speaker 1: I left overseas, I don't know how much they thought
Speaker 1: about it, but I didn't really give it much.
Speaker 2: Thought at all.
Speaker 3: I didn't give any thought to my parents either.
Speaker 2: Trans Siberian Express and went to China for four months
Speaker 2: and then Russia for a little bit, and I got
Speaker 2: an aerogram with a cutout from the Christ Church priest
Speaker 2: and they'd written an article and the title was the
Speaker 2: Train of Pain and Death the Trans Siberian Express. So
Speaker 2: my mother kindly sent that to me, which she was
Speaker 2: very brave like. My mum let me wander around the
Speaker 2: world and parts of the world where there had not
Speaker 2: been a lot of foreigners before you know, and she
Speaker 2: I don't know how she coped with that. But these days,
Speaker 2: but that's the thing, you see, we expect proof of life,
Speaker 2: that's what you know. And I've had a few parents
Speaker 2: say to me, how often are you texting? And how
Speaker 2: often should I expect a response? This is for those
Speaker 2: of us who've just you know, his first kids gone
Speaker 2: and I go. The proof of life is easy. It's
Speaker 2: as you say, it's liking a funny video you send them,
Speaker 2: or it doesn't have to it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 2: They don't have to answer all your calls or answer
Speaker 2: all your texts. You just have to accept the fact
Speaker 2: they're having a good time and everything's okay.
Speaker 4: And they will be in touch when they need you.
Speaker 1: And even in one family, two kids can be quite different.
Speaker 1: We've got friends, but you know, the dad is always
Speaker 1: reaching out to one of the doors and she just
Speaker 1: like okay, yeah, you know, and the other daughter's full
Speaker 1: of gushing news. So it's all very child dependent, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I do think again, it comes back to that my
Speaker 1: husband was trying to reach my daughter and she just was,
Speaker 1: I don't know, ignoring him, And then he sent her
Speaker 1: a message and said he if you've blocked me, or
Speaker 1: if you want to block me, just let me know,
Speaker 1: which he meant jokingly. She ran straight away. Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry you were feeling like that, dad. You know, you
Speaker 1: don't know what you don't know, but so yours have.
Speaker 1: Kate has come back. She came back from the UK.
Speaker 3: Obviously they were always going to come back when the
Speaker 3: first child was to start school, so thank god it
Speaker 3: was in the middle of the COVID years, so they
Speaker 3: came back six months early. And then we ended up
Speaker 3: buying a house together. And yeah, from you know, it
Speaker 3: was just the way it was. I was on my
Speaker 3: own by now, and house prices were insane, so we all, yeah,
Speaker 3: we bought a house and we were lucky enough to
Speaker 3: find one where I've got two rooms in her kitchen
Speaker 3: and a bathroom downstairs, and they've got the upstairs, so
Speaker 3: they've got their own separate living space. But it took
Speaker 3: a bit of learning because for a while I was
Speaker 3: up there like oh it's bad, like when you're eighteen again,
Speaker 3: and it's like, no, Mum, push off. There's a reason
Speaker 3: we bought, you know, a house with two levels.
Speaker 2: Because normally it's when they come back and they inevitably
Speaker 2: will come back to save some money. At some point
Speaker 2: that you have to put the boundaries around the child
Speaker 2: and go, actually, hey.
Speaker 5: Was boundaries around me, because it's like, yes, you've come
Speaker 5: back and that's great, but actually you need to fit
Speaker 5: in a little bit more now without And if you're working,
Speaker 5: what would you do if if your kid comes back,
Speaker 5: they've got a job, they want to save some money,
Speaker 5: would you still say, yep, but you can pay a
Speaker 5: little bit.
Speaker 3: I think So that's the real world, doesn't it. I
Speaker 3: mean I say that, I'd like i'd enforce it, Like
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm hopeless.
Speaker 2: But if you look at your friends as well who've
Speaker 2: had their kids come back, if they did they put
Speaker 2: any sort of they go, Okay, that's cool. We'd love
Speaker 2: to have your home. I mean, I would say to
Speaker 2: my kids, you're always welcome to come home. But I
Speaker 2: think at different ages and stages there might be you know,
Speaker 2: there might be slightly different.
Speaker 3: But I mean, if you've raised your child, it's just
Speaker 3: good manners to contribute towards anywhere you're staying. As one hundred, yeah, Like,
Speaker 3: I just can't imagine a world where where Kate wouldn't
Speaker 3: offer to pay for something like I know that when
Speaker 3: she's borrowed something or you know, it's always delivered straight
Speaker 3: back with some flowers and a note, you know, like,
Speaker 3: I can't imagine a world where she wouldn't contribute.
Speaker 1: And the poultry one hundred bucks or something I'd probably
Speaker 1: make him pay a week is not going to make.
Speaker 2: Much difference to his house deposit.
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, no, and they have to
Speaker 3: understand that there are going to be expenses and that
Speaker 3: it's important that they contribute, so they learn how to budget.
Speaker 1: But gosh and fire that in voice off. I'm just
Speaker 1: thinking that the difference from living across the other side
Speaker 1: of the world to living upstairs and downstairs, that's pretty significant.
Speaker 3: I think it was more significant for them, the poor things,
Speaker 3: because Kate was used to being the mistress of her
Speaker 3: own home for a very long time. Then all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, you know, she might come home from work
Speaker 3: and unfolding the wall. You know. I mean, it's good
Speaker 3: because I've picked up the kids and that's great, and
Speaker 3: I just it's such a privilege. But you know, I
Speaker 3: unfolding the washing. Does she really want me folding her under?
Speaker 3: You know, and I check in with her now and
Speaker 3: say anytime it's too much, or you just don't want
Speaker 3: to look at my face, you know, just send me downstairs.
Speaker 3: I'm happy down there.
Speaker 2: And interestingly, you're sort of going full circle. You know,
Speaker 2: You've gone through the experience of Kate living home and
Speaker 2: living overseas, and now she's come back and you've, as
Speaker 2: you say, got this privilege of being so close to
Speaker 2: your grandchildren. But they're going to grow up too, Carrie,
Speaker 2: I know they're gonna leave.
Speaker 3: It's like you're going through it, you go through your
Speaker 3: It's just pure joy. It's one hundred and fifty percent joy.
Speaker 3: Because they're not mine. They're not mine to lose. They're
Speaker 3: just mine to love, you know. And I just, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's quite a different love. I don't feel that possessive love.
Speaker 3: I don't like I love the fact that they've got
Speaker 3: other grandparents who love them as much as I do.
Speaker 3: I don't mind sharing them. It's a completely different love.
Speaker 3: You just want as many people in the world to
Speaker 3: love these beautiful souls as much as I do.
Speaker 1: How old are the grand children there?
Speaker 3: But will be eight on Monday and Dora's six Top
Speaker 3: four I'm.
Speaker 1: Got all those fabulous here, I know, and I've had
Speaker 1: all these fabulousies with them.
Speaker 3: You know, I was there when we're not there there,
Speaker 3: but I was there. I was with them within I
Speaker 3: was a week of Bart being born, and the night
Speaker 3: Dora was born, I looked after Bart and so I've
Speaker 3: got all of these beautiful memories that inform the relationship
Speaker 3: with these kids, Like for his birthday, but it was like,
Speaker 3: should you and me just go to that Ethiopian restaurant
Speaker 3: that we went to for Dad's birthday and you know,
Speaker 3: just us? And I'm like, yeah, that'd be fundable. It's
Speaker 3: just magical. And I know there are grandparents who don't,
Speaker 3: who feel that their parenting is done. But because I
Speaker 3: was a single mother for a long time and then
Speaker 3: I was working all the time, I never got my
Speaker 3: fill of nurturing, I guess, and being a mum. You know,
Speaker 3: I never got the chance to do it right, if
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because I couldn't pick Kate.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I could pick Kate up from school, but other times.
Speaker 2: I was I don't think there is a right way
Speaker 2: to do it, you know, I wouldn't let that go.
Speaker 2: I think we all do the best that we can do.
Speaker 3: That we have just pure joy the way everybody and
Speaker 3: to take them to like I love taking them to
Speaker 3: swimming practice and watching every stroke. I'm not on my phone.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know that's brilliant, you know, because I did
Speaker 1: not watch.
Speaker 3: Don't because you've got a thousand things to do. You know,
Speaker 3: you're a mum and you've got a million things to do, and.
Speaker 1: You're not as present. Perhaps no, no, no, you're not.
Speaker 3: As present because you've got a thousand things to do
Speaker 3: in terms of running the household and looking after the
Speaker 3: kids and trying to jack up the next thing. Whereas
Speaker 3: for me, I don't. I've got so much more time.
Speaker 2: So the crazy outcome of this podcast, I think is
Speaker 2: that I quite like my kids to have babies.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, you're jump too far.
Speaker 2: Left.
Speaker 4: Okay, you left time.
Speaker 2: Now how about a baby.
Speaker 4: Kit?
Speaker 3: And and partner told Tom and I would like to
Speaker 3: take you out to dinner. And I'm like, oh, oh,
Speaker 3: she's having a baby. Oh my goodness, Oh to be wonderful. No,
Speaker 3: they can move back in and I'll do the front room,
Speaker 3: and she can keep going to university until the baby's
Speaker 3: born in them. So I had it all planned. We
Speaker 3: went to dinner. Mum, Tom, yes, yes, well we're going
Speaker 3: to get married married. Are you pregnant? And didn't I
Speaker 3: tell you? She would say that, did I not tell
Speaker 3: you you are? You're not gonna have a baby, No, Mum.
Speaker 3: I just thought somebody should do things the right way
Speaker 3: around once.
Speaker 1: Like having just done a twenty first album for my
Speaker 1: oldest child, I really it was such a privilege and
Speaker 1: honor to do it because I had to look through
Speaker 1: all those photos and see the grandparents' influence on him,
Speaker 1: and it's fifty percent of how he's been raised as
Speaker 1: the grandparents, you know, really not in terms of time,
Speaker 1: but in terms of their influence and the love. They're pure,
Speaker 1: unadulterate and it's just love.
Speaker 3: It's you know. When I look at those children, it's
Speaker 3: that hard emoji that's you know, and there's just clouds
Speaker 3: of hearts coming out, and they're both so different. There's
Speaker 3: so much fun and it allows you to be present
Speaker 3: and allows you to enjoy every moment and not sweat
Speaker 3: the small stuff. And you know, I have them for
Speaker 3: a week during the school holidays, and it's such a privilege,
Speaker 3: such a privilege.
Speaker 1: We've already cycled through life, haven't we have?
Speaker 2: We still carry as always love your sage advice, but
Speaker 2: also thank you for sharing with us because I think
Speaker 2: you know we're all. I feel very positive about all
Speaker 2: this now. There's lots of wonderful things to look forward
Speaker 2: to in different stages and phases.
Speaker 1: And we could have sat here and just kind of
Speaker 1: reminisced about everything we've lost rather than what we're looking at.
Speaker 3: And honestly, I've been to three weddings of their friends,
Speaker 3: so you don't lose the friends either. You know, they
Speaker 3: are still part of your life. And I again that
Speaker 3: such a privilege to be involved.
Speaker 2: And look, there are a lot of silver linings, from
Speaker 2: the lack of dishes to the lack of washing, into
Speaker 2: the lack of you.
Speaker 1: Know, that'sing you can't hide from. When that person leaves,
Speaker 1: there's no you know you wondered who who was the
Speaker 1: messy one?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know who we know now.
Speaker 2: Carrie, thank you so much, absolute put.
Speaker 1: So, Francisca. That was really interesting and as I say,
Speaker 1: we did kind of cycle through the life cycle of
Speaker 1: it there, even though Carrie is still a very young woman.
Speaker 1: What did you what do you make of it all?
Speaker 2: I think it's just really reassuring life goes on. You're
Speaker 2: going to be okay, your kids are going to be okay.
Speaker 2: There's lots of different, exciting new stages ahead for both
Speaker 2: child and parent, and I think you just have to
Speaker 2: manage those little and accept that there will be moments
Speaker 2: of you know, sadness, or moments when things aren't you know,
Speaker 2: going well, and maybe you might need your child more
Speaker 2: than they need you. But actually that's kind of just
Speaker 2: life and it's okay.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. And I think you know, when we were
Speaker 1: talking at some point about how you leave them at
Speaker 1: the kindergarten and wave goodbye, and then you leave them
Speaker 1: at the first day of primary school and then again
Speaker 1: the first day of high school. It is it's you
Speaker 1: can be sad about how quickly it goes and you
Speaker 1: consider in those waves of grief from time to time,
Speaker 1: but there's always another tide coming in with something good.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be really philosophical.
Speaker 2: It's a huge amount of positives and I think we
Speaker 2: sort of talked about those. One there's you know, there's
Speaker 2: one less person at the hotel. Yeah, you know, so
Speaker 2: there's that side of it too. You know, we should
Speaker 2: be celebrating that our kids are brave enough to head
Speaker 2: out into the world. That's a really great thing to
Speaker 2: head off on that independence and the changing nature of
Speaker 2: our relationship. It's it's kind of got to be a
Speaker 2: good thing. I just for me personally, it's about remembering
Speaker 2: just to step back, not demand that communication that you
Speaker 2: want all the time, and checking that they're okay, and
Speaker 2: just letting that relationship naturally go to a new level,
Speaker 2: not trying to fix and solve everything.
Speaker 1: And that you know that comes more naturally to some
Speaker 1: of us than others. But you know, if you are
Speaker 1: struggling with that, just just talk to another person who's
Speaker 1: been through it, I think is always a good idea,
Speaker 1: Like sh'ld be honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know how someone said to me other day,
Speaker 2: you know, whose kid had just started intermediate, and she said, look,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be really honest with you.
Speaker 4: It's not going well.
Speaker 2: But she says, every time, you know, I ask another
Speaker 2: parent how it's going, they go, oh, my kid's loving it.
Speaker 2: Everything's great. You know, sometimes we're just it's actually okay
Speaker 2: to go. Not a good day, not a good week,
Speaker 2: not a good month. You know, just be honest with
Speaker 2: each other, because I think we'll find that we're all
Speaker 2: sort of sharing the same kind of.
Speaker 1: I spoke to a woman when I said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it so this is a rollercoaster. One day she's okay,
Speaker 1: the next day she's feeling really flat. The next day
Speaker 1: she's good. And she said, oh, you know, we had
Speaker 1: that for four years. It's like fantastic. Okay, Well, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: let's just see if we can get a little more
Speaker 1: stable kind of situation going on. But isn't it the
Speaker 1: same for all of us when we do something new. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we know that we've been able to do it.
Speaker 2: And look, that's what we want to say. We want
Speaker 2: to say if you're listening to this and you've had
Speaker 2: someone leave recently or a little while ago, or you know.
Speaker 1: Always going later and he's going later in the year.
Speaker 2: If you're tuning through those kids leaving, we're kind of
Speaker 2: all on this together. We're all experiencing the same thing.
Speaker 2: So thanks so much for joining us on our new
Speaker 2: Zealand Herald podcast series, The Little Things. We hope you
Speaker 2: share this podcast with the women in your life so
Speaker 2: we can all be reminded it's good times.
Speaker 1: Ahead, that's right, and you can follow this podcast on
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more
Speaker 1: on this and other topics, here to inset Herald dot
Speaker 1: co dot inzet and
Speaker 2: We'll catch you next time on the Little Things