1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: To Bondo Beach this terror attack, and the suspects a 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: twenty four year old his names Navid Arkram. He's in 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: custody right now. His dad, who's fifty, was shot dead 4 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: at the scene. 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: The son is an Australian born citizen. The father arrived 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight on a student visa, transferred in 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: two thousand and one to a partner visa, and after 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: each trip overseas since then, has been on resident return visas. 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: So we're learning more about these two now. Reportedly the 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: dad originally came from Pakistan. Police won't confirm that yet. 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: Doctor Levi West is a terrorism research fellow at the 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: Australian National University. With me, good evening, Good evening, Aden, 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: very well, thank you. How are you doing. How's Australia doing. 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: Ah? 15 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: Look, I think this is rattled the country in a 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 3: quite significant and consequential kind of way. I don't think 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 3: anyone was expecting something of this kind of scale and 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 3: gravity to take place, particularly an iconic location like Bondo Beach. 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: We're hearing that they've both pledged allegiance to ISIS. Do 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: we know that for sure yet? 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 3: There's some indicators in the public domain suggesting that certainly 22 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 3: the younger of the father and son duo had previously 23 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 3: been investigated for their tie for their connection to Islamic 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 3: state cells within Australia. There is talk in the public 25 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 3: domain that they found Islamic state flags and the vehicle. 26 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: None of this has been formally confirmed as official information 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 3: by the government. I would expect that sometime over the 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: next day or two if if those claims are true, 29 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: then they'll be confirmed by the relevant authorities. 30 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: Doctor Levy. The thing that's jumping out at me, and 31 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure it is for others as well. As You've 32 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: got the son who allegedly head links to an ISIS guy, 33 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: and then you've got the dad and they're both living 34 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: in the same house and the dad's got sex legal firearms. 35 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: How does that work? 36 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 3: So I think it's important in the aftermath of any 37 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: terrorist attack to remember that the assessments for things, for instance, 38 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 3: the father's gun license, he met the requirements to pass 39 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 3: the application for a gun license because he hadn't committed 40 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 3: a terrorist attack. Yet when we look back after an incident, 41 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: it's easy for us to ask questions about, well, why 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 3: didn't we do something about this person. It's because they 43 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: hadn't done anything at that point, and that associations with 44 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: people and associations that your son has with people who's 45 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 3: not necessarily sufficient to rule you out of measures. The 46 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: new stufile of state government is talking fairly transparently at 47 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 3: the moment about tightening what is, by any measure, some 48 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 3: of the toughest gun laws in the world. You know, 49 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: none of these things are fool proof. I think that's 50 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 3: important thing to keep in mind that just because someone 51 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: has gotten through the system doesn't mean that the system 52 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: is comprehensively flawed. It means that there's a small gap 53 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: there that someone's managed to slip through. 54 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: Anti Semitism, extremist Islamic ideologies, all these things. Are they 55 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: more prevalent in Australia than they are in other places? 56 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: Or is it just because we're at next door to 57 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: you that you know, we notice it more. 58 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 3: I don't think it is. If you track, for instance, 59 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 3: some of the anti semitism activity that's been happening in 60 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 3: Europe in particular, where the baseline level of activity is 61 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: like in numerical terms but also in terms of severity, 62 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 3: is higher than it is in Australia. For instance, there's 63 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 3: more incidents, and they tend to be more severe if 64 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 3: they haven't reached into this kind of level of proper 65 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: kinetic terrorist activity. But it's more like sabotage than it 66 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 3: is graffiti. It's not to say that it hasn't happened 67 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 3: in Australia, obviously it has. But there are other parts 68 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 3: of the world where the kind of anti Semitism that 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: we've witnessed here has been more prevalent and more consequential, 70 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 3: you know, and Australia is I think this is something 71 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 3: that Australia and New Zealand has learned really in very 72 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 3: difficult ways. And speaking here about New Zealand's experience with 73 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 3: christ Church and now Australia's experience with Bundai, is that 74 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: as much as it is easy in both Australia and 75 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: New Zealand to feel like we're largely disconnected from the 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 3: world and that we live in splendid isolation, because for 77 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 3: most of the time we do, the reality is that 78 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 3: we don't. That these things happen all over the world, 79 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: and that that includes Australia and it includes New Zealand. 80 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 3: So you know, yes, we have had a significant increase 81 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: in anti Semitic activity in Australia since October seven. Much 82 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: of the Western world has experienced that significant uptick in 83 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: anti semitism. The United States has, Canada has, the UK 84 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: certainly has. So, you know, I think it's important in 85 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 3: these things. Regrettably, these kinds of incidents remind us that 86 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: Australia and New Zealand are part of the world despite 87 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: our geographic isolation. 88 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: All right, well leave it there, Livia, I really appreciate 89 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: your analysis tonight, not be Levi West, who's say, national 90 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: security expert at A and you. 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