1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Gilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. This 3 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: week marks one year since the twenty twenty three election. 4 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: That election saw Labour's historic majority cut in half and 5 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: started weeks of negotiations between National Act and New Zealand. First, 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: about the shape of the government marking the anniversary. A 7 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: one used Varian poll shows thirty percent of respondents believe 8 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: the country isn't better shape than a year ago, while 9 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: forty percent think it's worse. That divisive nature has been 10 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: a cornerstone of this government, but is that having any 11 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: impact on their policies? And what about the other side 12 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: of the aisle? Today on the Front Page, Police commentator 13 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: Ben Thomas joins us to analyze the last year in politics. 14 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: First off, Ben, one year since the election, what was 15 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: your reaction at the time to those results? 16 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: Well, I was actually the National Party election night celebration 17 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 2: for part of that night, and what struck me there 18 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: was that the early results which showed that you know, 19 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: suggested National and Act would be able to form a 20 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: government by themselves, which had been the goal you know, 21 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: at the beginning of the campaign. Seemed to be in view, 22 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: and as the night went on and the vote margin narrowed, 23 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: but as the sort of libations flowed, I don't think 24 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: it really sunk in until the next day, and then 25 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,279 Speaker 2: really fully when the special votes were counted that actually 26 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: New Zealand First would be needed as well. So, you know, 27 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: maybe things haven't gone as smoothly as I think two 28 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: out of the three coalition parties would have expected. It's 29 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: seven to fifteen pm on election night, but I think 30 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: that given the hand that they've been dealt in terms 31 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: of a genuine three way coalition between three quite different parties, 32 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: they're holding together pretty well. A year on. I think 33 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: Winston Peters certainly had his eye on the way the 34 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: votes were going as election night progressed, and you know, 35 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: I guess is quite confidence was probably vindicated the next day. 36 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: But in a way it sort of set the tone 37 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: for New Zealand First participation in this government in that 38 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: it's been significantly less bombastic than New Zealand First is 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: on the campaign trail. You know, it's been very content 40 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: to play that sort of statesmanlike role that Winston Peters 41 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: tends to when he is the Deputy Prime Minister as 42 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: he has been before. And interestingly enough, a lot of 43 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: the friction into of the sort of outward presenting face 44 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: of the coalition is actually coming from the Act Party. 45 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: Well, of course there are three parties in this coalition. 46 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: How well do you think National Act in New Zealand 47 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: First have actually worked together in the past year. 48 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: Well, I think that if you were comparing it against 49 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: how people might have expected they work together, you would 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: say it's been a huge success. And part of that 51 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: is the way in which they've chosen to work together, 52 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: which is traditionally in New Zealand with MMP it's kind 53 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: of forced compromise on government parties. You know, the smaller 54 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: party might say we want this, in the larger party 55 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: will say, how about we meet you halfway and have 56 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: this here. It's what it's almost like, you know, sort 57 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: of an hr team building exercise that Christopher Luxon might 58 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: have had it in New Zealand, the kind of brainstorming 59 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: session where there are no bad ideas and so if 60 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: the minor party says something they want something, they say yes, 61 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: and and then the next party says, well we want this, 62 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: and you just kind of add together these promises. So 63 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: what you get is this huge, bulging agenda of work, 64 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: some of it slightly contradictory, some of it overlapping, but 65 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: all the parties, you know, feel like they're getting what 66 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: they want. And in terms of sticking to those agreements, 67 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: you know, not necessarily the matter is outside them, but 68 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: in terms of what is in those pretty big, pretty 69 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 2: detailed coalition agreements, I think all the parties will be 70 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: very happy with the progress that they've made. 71 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: Which of the three parties do you think has performed 72 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,679 Speaker 1: better overall? 73 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: Look, I think they've all performed well in terms of 74 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: making this very unusual, you know, first genuine three party 75 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: coalition government work. And I think that they all have 76 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: things that they can show their supporters. I think they've 77 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 2: all been allowed to claim credit for different things. If 78 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: there was a loser out of the coalition so far, 79 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: you would probably say that to some extent it's National. Still, 80 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: the broad policy program going forward is one that is 81 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 2: in line with what National campaigned on. I suppose the 82 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 2: Prime Minister himself has this situation where he doesn't quite 83 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: get to kind of lead as you know, the kind 84 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: of top dog in the same way that we've seen 85 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: in the past. You know, there very much is this 86 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: sort of you know, government of equals. You know, he's 87 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: first amongst equals with David Seymour and Winston Peters, and 88 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: so he hasn't necessarily been able to stamp the sort 89 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: of authority on that role. And you see you see 90 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: that in the sort of continuing ratings, and there hasn't 91 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: been a lot of movement in the polls. Ordinarily, a 92 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: large party would expect that it would go up in 93 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: government as people kind of got used to it in 94 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: that position. Here, you know, there's been ups, downs, overs 95 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: and unders, but we're basically around about where we were 96 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: on election made a year ago and so on terms 97 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: of in terms of what you might normally expect in government, 98 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: you would say that National has not has not had 99 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 2: the same success that it's two other partners have. 100 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: Do you reckon there have been any standout ministers in 101 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: this government so far? 102 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 2: I think like all governments, you know, there will be 103 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: a number of standout ministers who actually do sort of 104 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: the bulk of the work, you know, and carry carry 105 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 2: a lot of load in terms of those public facing 106 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 2: things and those really important portfolios. You could count the standouts. 107 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: Chris Bishop has been very good, very busy advancing a 108 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: very clear agenda on infrastructure and housing and RMA reform. 109 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: Simeon Brown has been you know, pretty busy, not maybe 110 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: not quite as sort of innovative, but you know, busy 111 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: getting the work done. Erica Stanford's been identified as a 112 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: standout by a lot of people. Some extremely overdue sort 113 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: of education reforms which seem to be handled pretty deftly 114 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: right now, and you know, one of those things that 115 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: really does you know, impact on a lot of voters' lives. 116 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: You know, they really see it at the coal face. 117 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: David Seymour, Look, he's been very effective, as he usually is, 118 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: a lot of controversy around his Treaty Principles bill, not 119 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: as much attention on his Ministry of Regulation, which I 120 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: think might actually end up being one of the more 121 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 2: important policy sort of policy additions of this government. You know, 122 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: it's already sort of getting to work and really could 123 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: you know, impro improve the quality of regulation which actually 124 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: does touch a lot of people's lives. Nikola Willis I 125 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: think has really grown as a retail politician. You know, 126 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: her political skills are excellent. She's managed to be a 127 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: sort of safe pair of hands and a very very 128 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: trying circumstance, really Finance minister with structural deficits kind of 129 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: handed down from the last government. You know. Winston Peters 130 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: again very statesman like, always conducts himself well as Foreign 131 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: Affairs Minister Shane Jones, I think is another surprise. Has 132 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: often been criticized in the past for a bit of 133 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: a low work rate, you know, except when he's sort 134 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: of reading the dictionary out loud to people. But you know, 135 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: he's been extremely busy and really kind of getting things done. 136 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: The Fast Trek Approval's Bill is really his baby. I 137 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: think that would have surprised a number of people that 138 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: the energy that he's come into government with. 139 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: The first few months of the coalition government was kind 140 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: of like a slash and burn of sorts, right, It 141 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: just felt like they were undoing everything labor done. How 142 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: has that worked out for them? 143 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: Well, you know, that was an easy criticism to make 144 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: of them. But at the same time, you know, how 145 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: do you introduce your policies if there are but these 146 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: new ones that have just been put in place by 147 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: a previous government. So you know, I think they would 148 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 2: see it as just like a kind of controlled burning 149 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: of the undergrowth. In the bush. You know, that feeds 150 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: the nutrients into the soil and it creates a climate 151 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 2: where actually there can be new growth. So get rid 152 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: of the Natural and Built Environments Act, which they disagreed 153 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: with three Waters, legislation, fair pay agreements, all these things 154 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: that labor really spent a lot of time, you know, 155 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: just getting across the line in a legislative sense, but 156 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 2: didn't embed in any way into the kind of practical 157 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: reality of government. And I think the ease with which 158 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 2: that was done is something that this government has taken 159 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: on board. So they're moving very quickly with a lot 160 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: of their reforms. And actually, if you can compare you know, 161 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: what they have, what they've done and completed in one 162 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: year compared to say the previous government or actually most 163 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: previous governments, it's been very busy. 164 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: Indeed, what are the highlights view in terms of what 165 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: the act, what the government's actually pushed through. 166 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: Look I think in terms of the big, big things 167 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 2: affecting New Zealand in the future, which is really where 168 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: we have to look at. You know, they came in 169 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: a pretty bad situation, the kind of in that COVID 170 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: sort of hangover, where inflation was very high. The government 171 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: government borrowing had really blown out, and you know, policy 172 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 2: mistakes that just haven't been addressed in the past were 173 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: really catching up to us. I think, you know, the 174 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: changes in the education will be some of the most important. 175 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 2: You know, the kind of novel idea of teaching children 176 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: to read and do maths as a priority. And then 177 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: I think, you know, as I said, the ministry of regulation, 178 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: I think will actually end up being you know, really important. 179 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 2: Governments talk about sort of putting in place a business 180 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: friendly kind of environment, and there are so many little 181 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 2: rules and regulations that trip people up, and they've never 182 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: really been addressed in a serious manner before. It's always 183 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: been kind of ad hoc or gimmicky. So I think, 184 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 2: I think that's an important reform. Again. Chris Bishop, I 185 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: think his his work in terms of reforming and in 186 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: terms of trying to get in place of framework where 187 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 2: we can actually you have sustainable and affordable delivery of 188 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 2: the infrastructure we need in New Zealand, the things that 189 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: this government wants to achieve, particularly from the national side, 190 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 2: but also act I think it will be a little 191 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: longer before we start seeing the results. And those are 192 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: the things like really setting concrete targets and being smarter 193 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: about how government money is spent, so everything you know, 194 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 2: from getting into the departments and you know, making them 195 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: rewrite their contractual expectations of third party providers, setting targets 196 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: for our departments, for bureaucrats to work towards. The Social 197 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: Investment Model, which you know is an attempt to take 198 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 2: kind of big data and use that to really isolate 199 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: and get better spending. Those are things that could be 200 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: extremely significant, but we're not far enough along to really 201 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: see that they've made a difference yet. 202 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: Well, according to the latest one used, Varyan pohl Kiwis 203 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: believe the country is in a better place than a 204 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: year ago. Forty think it's worse. What do you make 205 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: of those results, Well, that's. 206 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: Not surprising at all. I mean we've had I think, 207 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: you know, since October, we've had what three more the 208 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: periods of negative growth, quarters of negative growth. Announced inflation 209 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: is a little better under control, but there have been 210 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: big rates hikes and insurance hikes as well. So you know, 211 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: people will generally see, you know, how well the country 212 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: is doing through that lens, rather than through the elegance 213 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 2: of a policy solution that has been announced at a 214 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 2: press conference. They'll think about their hip pocket, filling up 215 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: the car, that sort of thing. And look, you know, 216 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: I think the government's been pretty honest about that and 217 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 2: upfront that that's not something that they can change overnight. 218 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 2: No government can. What they can do is put in 219 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: place the sort of building blocks so that when a 220 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: recovery happens, you know, people can take advantage of that. 221 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: So you know, they will have their fingers crossed that 222 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: the economy, you know, starts heading up, you know, hope 223 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: hopefully with interest rate cuts, text cuts and with sort 224 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: of inflation back in a manageable sort of banned. 225 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: When do you reckon the expiration data is when you 226 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: stop blaming the last government in their books. 227 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: Look, if John Key, who's Christopher Luxon's mentor, is to 228 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 2: be believed somewhere in the order of seven to eight years, 229 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 2: you know, look, I mean there's already a bit of 230 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: an expiration date on it. Because because of New Zealand 231 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: First's present in this government, they can never really talk 232 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: about the twenty seventeen to twenty twenty three labor government. 233 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: They can only talk about the twenty twenty to twenty 234 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: twenty three labor government. So you know, a lot of 235 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: damage was done in a very short time. If you 236 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: listen to this government now. But yeah, looks suddenly you 237 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: get away with it in the first term. People are 238 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 2: willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. 239 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: Generally, it's fair to say that the antagonism and backlash 240 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: towards this government came fairly quickly. You had Maulti dam 241 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: protesting across the country about a week after the government 242 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: was actually sworn in. Where do you rank this government 243 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: in terms of its divisiveness, I guess now, or is 244 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: that all David Seymour and is Treaty Principle's Bill. 245 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: No, look, I mean in terms of the divisiveness issue, 246 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: particularly to do with the treaty and multi ground relationships. 247 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: That's a function of that really kind of I guess 248 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: you call it additive or inclusive coalition agreement style that 249 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: they have, which is where rather than kind of promising 250 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: on things piece by piece or issue by issue, they 251 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 2: just said, actually, we'll just take everything and combine it together. 252 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: So what you ended up with was when these coalition 253 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: agreements went live, what you saw was just this ray 254 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: of policies that were to do with Crown Maori relationships 255 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: and the treaty and generally trying to roll back those 256 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: kinds of things, everything from ruling out a non existent 257 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 2: referendum to change the country's name to Tuna, to the 258 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: Treaty Principle's Bill. But then you know there's all these 259 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: other things that you know when you see them written 260 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: on the page. You know, if you're Ei, if you're Maldi, 261 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: you can't help but think, well, this is a bit, 262 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: this is a bit of an attack. And look it 263 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: has continued and we will continue the you know, even 264 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 2: leaving aside the Treaty Principle's Bill, which is a bit 265 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: of a red hearing because New Zealand First and National 266 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: have said there's no way it will go into law. 267 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: But New Zealand First Security commitment to a review of 268 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: a treaty clauses in legislation. Now, those are those are 269 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: rights that you know that a crew to Maori, and 270 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: you know that exists now that the government is proposing 271 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: to sort of you know, narrow down or get rid of. 272 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: So I think you know, in this sense, in the 273 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: Crown Maori relationship sense, you know, this is certainly the 274 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: most regressive government for at least twenty. 275 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: Years, and when looking back on the last year in 276 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: terms of scandals, I guess it's been quite It's been 277 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: on the lighter side. I mean, you've had ministers like 278 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: Melissa Lee and Penny Simmons stripped of their portfolios for 279 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: poor handling of them. You've got lux And paying back 280 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: his living allowance quite early on after initially asserting that 281 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: it was his right. And then there were other kind 282 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: of contentious bills like the fast Track one that's obviously 283 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: gone through and reversing the smoke free ban, things like that. 284 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: But has this government handled these issues quite well? And 285 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: would you agree that it's been quite light on terms 286 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: of I would have I would have seen I would 287 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: have put money on there being more scandals. Given the 288 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: amount of first time ministers we've got in cabinet, you would. 289 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: Normally get your first Yeah, you normally think Locke in 290 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 2: the first real scandal that's going to need a resignation 291 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: is somewhere between a year and eighteen months in. So 292 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: they're actually trekking pretty well, you know. Yes, certainly some 293 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: of the newer ministers are perhaps not as deft or 294 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: as sure footed as some of their more experienced colleagues. 295 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 2: But at the same time, yeah, no real smoking guns 296 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 2: that have emerged that you know, kind of career ending. Now, 297 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: obviously there's a bit of a buffer there, particularly for 298 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: the smaller party ministers, in the sense that the Prime Minister, 299 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: as a matter of political reality, can't unilaterally fire them. 300 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 2: You know, if you were Penny Simmons and you were 301 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: Melissa Lee particularly demoted from cabinet, yes, you might feel 302 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 2: you're pretty hard done by if you looked over at 303 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: Casey Costello for instance. And the fact of the matter 304 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 2: there is that Luxon wanted to sort of you know, 305 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: stampers authority, show that he's the actively managing CE. But 306 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: he only can do that with his own ministers without 307 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 2: sort of causing a bit of an incident. 308 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: And looking ahead, we've got two years left of this 309 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: coalition government until we get to the next election. Can 310 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: you give us some of your predictions. 311 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 2: Well, look, I think part of the reason that it's 312 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: worked so well so far and I think this will 313 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 2: probably carry them through to the second year. Through the 314 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 2: second year, is that just those agendas that they agreed 315 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 2: to because of tough negotiating by New Zealand First and Act, 316 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 2: the agenda is so full that it will only be 317 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 2: sort of black swan events or really unexpected things that 318 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: happen where there will be significant disagreements between the parties 319 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 2: about what they're they're doing a legislative sense, in a 320 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 2: policy sense that will be in reaction to things. So 321 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: I actually think that, you know, and you know if 322 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: you also sort of think that, you know, idle hands 323 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: make work for the devil. Everyone's very busy, you know, 324 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: there's a lot to get on with, and I think 325 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 2: that that's working in the government's favor as well politically. 326 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 2: You know. Look, I think that they will be in 327 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 2: a position where they will be able to show all 328 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 2: of their respective supporters some pretty big wins in a 329 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 2: year's time, you know, touch would but I think the 330 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: economy will be performing much better, and that is always 331 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 2: a tail wind for a government. So look, I think, 332 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: as Christopher Luxen might say in a report to his board, 333 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: there is plenty of upside for this government. 334 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Ben. That's it for this episode 335 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: of the Front Page. You can read more about today's 336 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: stories and extensive music at enzeed Herald dot co dot z. 337 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles with sound 338 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: engineer Patti Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front 339 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 340 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.