1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,920 Speaker 1: You can hold the presses because the government has released 2 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: a new framework for public private partnerships and the Labor 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Party is on board with it. So some rere cross 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: party cooperation we seem to have here. Had trouble with 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: PPPs is we haven't been very good at them. In 6 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: fifteen years we've entered into eight apparently there's been three prisons, 7 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: three schools and two roads. Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop is 8 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: with us. Very good morning to you come on the 9 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: relevance of having Labor on board. How significant, But. 10 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Like I to be honest, I'm really pleased by it. 11 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: I was a bit surprised, but I am pleased by it. 12 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: I'm trying to build greater by partisanship around infrastructure because 13 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: that's what the country desperately needs, and it's the feedback 14 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: from the market, both international and domestic they say, you've 15 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: just got to get a bit of consensus on this stuff. 16 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a shift for Labor. They 17 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: didn't do any PPPs for six years. They basically, you know, 18 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: the reason, one of the reasons why we've had to 19 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 2: update the model and the frame workers that they didn't 20 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: do any and the market lost all confidence in it, 21 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: and I've been developing the Steady and National Infrastructure Plan, 22 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: which has been done by them for Structure Commission, and 23 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: as part of that, I've been meeting with Labor and 24 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: the Greens actually around the development of that plan because 25 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: I want to get some buy in from them as 26 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: to the long term vision, and Labor expressed interest in 27 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: being briefed on the PPP model and the work we 28 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: were doing, so we made that happen and then they 29 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: offered to write a full worth and we've accepted and 30 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: I think it all rowned quite well with the market 31 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: because it gives a sense that the government changes, which 32 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 2: hopefully it won't, but if it does, then you know 33 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: there's a bit of stability. So someone signed the contract, 34 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: I'm just going to be torn up. That's a good, big, 35 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: good stuff. 36 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: Why are we no good at them? 37 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: Well, we're not good at them because over the LEA, 38 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 2: I would argue that we haven't developed sufficient expertise inside 39 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: the Crown to make sure that the government is as 40 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: a good client on our side of it. And that's 41 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: one of the things we're changing with the development of 42 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: this new National Infrastructure Agency that will start life in 43 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: two and a half weeks first of December. We're going 44 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: to buy and attract really top class talent so that 45 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: when the Crown engaged is in public private partnerships, we 46 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 2: get the contracting really really really right. And that involves 47 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: expertise and talent to make sure the resources there. So 48 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: we're going to do. 49 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: That, Okay. Is this just is a public private partnership? 50 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: Just the money? So whenever I talk to Luxon about this, 51 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: it's all these equity funds he meets overseas have got 52 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: billions of dollars ready to roll. It's just the money 53 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: or is it more than that? 54 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: It's a delivery method. It's basically a procurement method. And 55 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 2: what it is is it it's a twenty five or 56 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 2: thirty year contract for the delivery of approaching. But the 57 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: critical thing about a BPP that goes with the oncome 58 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: maintenance and the asset management. And that's what we're really 59 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: bad at in New Zealand And If you take the 60 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: school PTPs for example, Labor despite being opposed to school PPPs, 61 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: quietly rolled them over and actually extended the contracts of 62 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: some of them when they are in government because that's 63 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: been so successful with the schools. A private partner comes 64 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: long and builds the school and then rather than just 65 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: building something and handing it over to the ministry or 66 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: the school to maintain, which you know, as I think 67 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: anyone listening will know from our school property experience, the 68 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: government has done really badly. It's while we have rotten 69 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: school buildings all over the country. In a PPP deliverer 70 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: of the project and maintains it for twenty five cerenty years. 71 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: Now we pay for that, so there's an ongoing maintenance 72 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,559 Speaker 2: but that's built into the contract and there's an availability 73 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 2: payment and a maintenance payment and all of those things. 74 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: But they have to maintain it to specified performance standards. 75 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: And anyone who visits the PPP schools that we have 76 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: out there now will know that they're really well maintained. 77 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: They're very high quality schools, and so you get what 78 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: you paid for, and of course you get private set 79 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: to innovation and expertise around that rather than having random 80 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: people at the Ministry education to it. 81 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: Is there still an ideological hurdle to get over because 82 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: of course they're clipping the ticket. There's money to be 83 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: made from it because they're not doing it for charity. 84 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: Is there an ideological hurdle still in this country. You've 85 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: still got to convince people that that is a model 86 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: that works, despite the fact that they are clipping them 87 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: ticket and you're sort of privatizing. What's going on. 88 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: Well, I think I think there's a bit of a 89 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: myth about TPPS in the sense that a lot of 90 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: people think it's the privatization of things. It's not. It's 91 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: a delivery method. So the ownership of the asset, the 92 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: public asset, remain remains with the crown. This is not 93 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: privatization of of things that the government builds. This is 94 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: this is actually who does the building and who does 95 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: the financing for it, which is just vary, but all 96 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: of it at the end of the day is Crown 97 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 2: money and Crown debt and it sits on our balance 98 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: sheet and we have we're we're the owner of the 99 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: asset at the end of the day. So the few 100 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 2: missed out there about it. This is just a project 101 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: delivery method and a procurement method and it's what you 102 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 2: know every other OECD country does. So you know, we're 103 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 2: well behind the eight ball when it comes to the stuff. 104 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons why our infrastructure is 105 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: in the poor state that it is. So this is 106 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: about bringing New Zealand up to speck on what other 107 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: countries do, updating the model and reflecting that we haven't 108 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: done Uneath for six years and the model was last 109 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: developed in twenty eleven. Putting it out there to the market. 110 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: We've got a foreword from the PM and ME and 111 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: a Labor Party foreword as well. It's a market facing 112 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 2: document and there's been a lot of interest and it's 113 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: been developed in construction in conjunction with the infrastructure sector. 114 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 2: So I think it's a good step forward. 115 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: Good stuff, mate, Nice to talk Chris Bishop infrastructure with 116 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: us this morning. 117 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 118 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 119 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.