1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,600
Speaker 1: New research out from Amazon says that kiwis check their phones.

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:05,720
Speaker 1: You pick up your phone all day long. I know

3
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,239
Speaker 1: you do pick up their phones and check notifications up

4
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,640
Speaker 1: to fifty times per hour. More than a quarter of

5
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,160
Speaker 1: us are receiving notifications right up until the time we

6
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 1: go to sleep. And it's also been revealed that apparently

7
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,400
Speaker 1: nine forty five pm is the ideal time to switch off.

8
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,799
Speaker 1: Doctor Mark Williams is a neuroscience professor. He's with me

9
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 1: this evening.

10
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 2: Good evening, Hi Ryan, nice to be here.

11
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: Good to have you on. Can you be honest hat

12
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: do you know how many times an hour you pick

13
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,159
Speaker 1: up your phone?

14
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 2: I actually have allline notifications turned off, so I'm not

15
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,120
Speaker 2: getting beat and buzzed all the time. And then I

16
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,200
Speaker 2: have in my calendar times to actually check my phone

17
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 2: to see if I've had anything important I'm going to

18
00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:45,479
Speaker 2: deal with, and.

19
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,839
Speaker 1: In between that you don't have the urge.

20
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,599
Speaker 2: No, No, not at all.

21
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,720
Speaker 1: Interesting because I think I think a lot of people

22
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 1: would you know where it? Because is it? If you

23
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 1: have your no notifications buzzing you, then you're less likely

24
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 1: to pick it up.

25
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the notifications are what they're using to actually

26
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,039
Speaker 2: get us to pick up the phone. So the notifications

27
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,520
Speaker 2: they have a noise, or if you turn down the

28
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 2: noise then they buzz, they actually move on you. And

29
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 2: those are two are the best ways to actually capture

30
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 2: our at tension. And we've got to remember that our

31
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,759
Speaker 2: brain is exactly the same brain as we had twenty

32
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 2: five thousand years ago, right, and that is just looking

33
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 2: for things that might be dangerous in our environment. And

34
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,479
Speaker 2: so things that move or sort of things that make

35
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,400
Speaker 2: sound could be dangerous, and so we're always looking out

36
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 2: for that, and that's basically why the phone attracts our

37
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,440
Speaker 2: attention and captures us. And so by getting rid of those,

38
00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 2: we don't have that drive to constantly pick it up

39
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 2: and have a look to make sure it's nothing we

40
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:42,400
Speaker 2: need to worry about.

41
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 1: If we continue down this path and we're doing it

42
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,320
Speaker 1: up to fifty times an hour, what happens to our brain?

43
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So our brain is basically just like any other muscle,

44
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 2: but it's got lots and lots of muscles in it,

45
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 2: and the muscles that we work all the time become

46
00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 2: really strong and they're the dominant ones that we're going

47
00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 2: to are constantly active, and the muscles that we don't

48
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 2: work are going to atrophy and slowly die off, and

49
00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 2: we won't have access to those anymore. And so if

50
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 2: you're constantly darting from one thing to another or constantly

51
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,920
Speaker 2: responding to your phone, then that's something that you're going

52
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,880
Speaker 2: to be constantly doing more and more and more. And

53
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:18,360
Speaker 2: that's why a lot of people now have a thing

54
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 2: called phantom buzz syndrome where they'll get a buzz on

55
00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 2: their leg or a buzz on their wrist if they

56
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 2: have the smart watch on, even when they're not actually

57
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,840
Speaker 2: getting notifications, because their brain's so wide to be constantly

58
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 2: getting these notifications, that's what they're looking for all the time,

59
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 2: and they get these phantom buzzers and they have trouble

60
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 2: going to sleep and doing those things because of those

61
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 2: fandom buzzers. So they're actually physically addicted to it.

62
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,639
Speaker 1: That's grim. And yet meanwhile, the longer term, you know

63
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 1: what you might call the deeper thinking part of our brain,

64
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 1: if we're not using that as much, then that just dies.

65
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, we know, we're getting dumber, right for the first

66
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,360
Speaker 2: time in our evolutionary history. We're getting dumber at the moment,

67
00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 2: and that's happened over about the last ten years, and

68
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 2: we know that from the Flint effect. The Fline effect

69
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,880
Speaker 2: is this idea that we were actually getting smarter because

70
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 2: people are getting more educated and we're learning how to

71
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 2: read and do all these sorts of things. So the

72
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 2: last one hundred and fifty years or so, we've been

73
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 2: getting smarter every five or ten years. Over the last

74
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 2: ten years, we've actually got dumber. And the only thing

75
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,359
Speaker 2: that's happened in that time, of course, is these devices

76
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 2: that we now have in our pockets that are constantly

77
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 2: distracting us. So that's a huge problem. But also we

78
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 2: know that it's the younger you've given a device, or

79
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,079
Speaker 2: the more time you spend on the device, the more

80
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 2: likely you are to have ADHD as well. And ADHD,

81
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 2: of course, is a disorder of attention, and these things

82
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 2: are attracted constantly interrupting how attentional mechanisms are not allowing

83
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,960
Speaker 2: us to develop those areas properly, so we're not able

84
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,160
Speaker 2: to sustain our attention that actually do good work, actually

85
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 2: think about things, and to read books and do these

86
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 2: sorts of things. And of course, on the other hand,

87
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 2: reading's gone dropped off dramatically. Most people used to read

88
00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen books every year. Your average person, an

89
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,640
Speaker 2: average person today is reading like some one booky, which

90
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:03,920
Speaker 2: is really really sad as well of.

91
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:08,119
Speaker 1: Course fascinating and disturbing. Doctor Mark Williams, really appreciate your time,

92
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 1: neuroscience professor. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen

93
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 1: live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

94
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,240
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio