1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: Do you how many subscriptions do you have? I was 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: counting up mine today at least thirteen subscriptions for Netflix 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: and iCloud and all that sort of stuff. Consumers, that's us. 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: We're being warned of subscription traps as meal kit company 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: hellow Fresh is facing criminal charges. This is from the 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: Commerce Commission. They say that the Hello Fresh business misled 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: its consumers during cold calls. They offered a discount voucher 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: without making it clear that this reactivated an old subscription. 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: Sahar Loan is with Consumer enz Edge's with me this afternoon. 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Hi Saha, Hi Ryan, how are you very good? Thank you. 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: Let's talk just generally about this subscription issue. What is 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: a subscription trap? What does that mean? 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: Well, let's start with what's not a subscription trap? So 14 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: people should be able to understand what they're signing up 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: for and be able to cancel subscriptions and services really easily. 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: So when that doesn't happen, you know, if a company 17 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 2: makes you jump through hopes essentially just to opt out, 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: that's when it becomes a trap. 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: Is it something that's easy to get into, hard to 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: get out of? 21 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think you know businesses 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: are incentivized to make it hard to quit because they 23 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: want you to stay with them, they want, you know, 24 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: customer attention. So I think that's where things are starting 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: to get a bit trickier. 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: What does the law actually say about you know, what 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: rules do you have to follow to cancel subscriptions? 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: So there is a little bit of a gap there. 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: So there is the Consumer Guarantees Act, which requires traders 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: to exercise reasonable care and skill, and then there's also 31 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: the Fair Trading Act, which prohibits misleading and deceptive conduct 32 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: and unfair contract terms. But neither of those addresses some 33 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: of the you know, those really questionable subscription cancelation practices. 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: And in the US we've seen a click to cancel bill, 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: So some of those rules would actually make it a 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: bit simpler for people to get out of a contract 37 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: the same way they got in. 38 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 1: What does that mean? You just one click and it's over. 39 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, one or two, or you know, rather than having 40 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: to make a phone call or you know, some gyms 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: will make you actually go into cancel rather than doing 42 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: it online. 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: So you can sign up online, but you have to 44 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: go in personally to get out of it. 45 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, in some cases with apps, for instance, you might 46 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: be looking for the actual mechanism or the button or 47 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 2: where that lives, and so it's increasingly harder for people 48 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: to understand how to actually get out of that. 49 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: So if people and it seems an odd thing to say, 50 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean money's tight at the moment, so you would 51 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: presumably know if you had subscriptions you didn't need that 52 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: you were paying for. But if people discover that they 53 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: are paying for stuff that they don't actually need or 54 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: don't want anymore, what advice do you have for them? 55 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: What should they do? 56 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of things you can do. You know, 57 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 2: having a through your bank account is a good way 58 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: to start, So you might want to sit down once 59 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: a year and look at what's going out of it 60 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: in case there's something you haven't realized you'd like to 61 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: get out of. There's also just reading the t's and 62 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: c's before signing up to make sure there's no hidden 63 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: costs or cancelation fees. You can diorize renewal dates. Say 64 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: you're signing up for a free trial and you just 65 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: want to make sure that that doesn't keep rolling on 66 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: after you intend it to last, or if you don't 67 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: actually appreciate the service. You can also document any attempts 68 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: to cancel that service and use that for chargeback request 69 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: for your bank. If you have no luck with the 70 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: service itself and you decide you need to escalate it. 71 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: There's also going to the Commerce Commission to complain if 72 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: you think that that difficulty of experience could be the 73 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: result of a breach. Okay, so it sounds like a lot. 74 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: I just want to breach one buttons. Bugger off. 75 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: You know that's the point. That shouldn't really be a pain. 76 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: It shouldn't. It shouldn't, sah Thank you for that, Saharlan, 77 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: who's with Consumer in Z. For more from Hither Duplessy 78 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: Allen Drive, listen live to News Talk zid B from 79 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.