1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:13,107 --> 00:00:17,067 Speaker 2: Christian Horner has been dismissed as Red Bull team principal 4 00:00:17,547 --> 00:00:19,587 Speaker 2: in Formula One. The fifty one year old's been in 5 00:00:19,627 --> 00:00:23,787 Speaker 2: the role since two thousand and five, overseeing eight drivers 6 00:00:23,827 --> 00:00:28,707 Speaker 2: world championships and six constructors' titles, but they have struggled 7 00:00:28,747 --> 00:00:32,147 Speaker 2: this season. Full time defending world champion Max for Stappan 8 00:00:32,387 --> 00:00:35,787 Speaker 2: has won just two of twelve races and the syndicate 9 00:00:35,867 --> 00:00:39,947 Speaker 2: sits fourth on the team's ladder. Laurent Mickeys has been 10 00:00:39,987 --> 00:00:43,867 Speaker 2: appointed chief executive in his place. Let's get some insight 11 00:00:43,947 --> 00:00:46,787 Speaker 2: into what is behind this, what it might mean moving forward, 12 00:00:46,947 --> 00:00:49,387 Speaker 2: in particular for Liam Lawson, of course, who is part 13 00:00:49,947 --> 00:00:53,747 Speaker 2: of the Red Bull stable, founder of the Toyota Racing 14 00:00:53,867 --> 00:00:56,747 Speaker 2: series which many of our top drivers raced in, including 15 00:00:56,747 --> 00:01:01,707 Speaker 2: Lillam Lawson and Astute Motorsport analyst Barry Tomlinson is with 16 00:01:01,827 --> 00:01:04,147 Speaker 2: us on Weekend Sport. Barry, Thanks for taking the time. 17 00:01:04,187 --> 00:01:07,187 Speaker 2: Did this come as a surprise when you heard this news? 18 00:01:08,507 --> 00:01:12,747 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's surprised everybody. Finey, you know, came 19 00:01:12,787 --> 00:01:14,787 Speaker 3: out of the blue, I guess, but you know, it's 20 00:01:14,827 --> 00:01:18,267 Speaker 3: been bubbling away for quite some while from you know 21 00:01:18,267 --> 00:01:20,787 Speaker 3: what what what the most of the pundits are saying, 22 00:01:20,867 --> 00:01:23,347 Speaker 3: and you know, I think it goes way back to 23 00:01:23,787 --> 00:01:26,067 Speaker 3: probably a couple of years ago, when Adrian knew he 24 00:01:26,147 --> 00:01:30,507 Speaker 3: left the team under circumstances that probably weren't so pleasant. 25 00:01:31,307 --> 00:01:34,267 Speaker 3: I mean, Adrian was, you know, is probably the best, 26 00:01:34,427 --> 00:01:36,787 Speaker 3: if one designer of the world we've ever seen. And 27 00:01:37,267 --> 00:01:40,187 Speaker 3: you know, he walked out the door and was followed 28 00:01:40,187 --> 00:01:43,467 Speaker 3: by Rob Marshall, who you know, became chief designer at 29 00:01:43,507 --> 00:01:45,987 Speaker 3: McLaren if one and we see the success of that 30 00:01:46,027 --> 00:01:49,947 Speaker 3: car and that team. Now Jonathan Wheatley has gone to Audi. 31 00:01:50,867 --> 00:01:55,987 Speaker 3: He was a TM you know at Red Ball, and 32 00:01:56,067 --> 00:01:58,107 Speaker 3: a lot of other senior stuff that probably aren't so 33 00:01:58,227 --> 00:02:01,707 Speaker 3: public but have also left. And you know, I think 34 00:02:01,747 --> 00:02:04,987 Speaker 3: the team, you know, has has probably you know, struggled 35 00:02:04,987 --> 00:02:11,787 Speaker 3: to rebuild from Christian downplayed Adrian's sort of departure from 36 00:02:11,867 --> 00:02:14,747 Speaker 3: the team, you know, which was probably a mistake for 37 00:02:15,107 --> 00:02:17,347 Speaker 3: you know, in the end. You know, I think Adrian, 38 00:02:17,907 --> 00:02:20,387 Speaker 3: you know, people knew that Adrian was was was you know, 39 00:02:20,427 --> 00:02:23,027 Speaker 3: a very very valuable member of the team, and when 40 00:02:23,027 --> 00:02:26,307 Speaker 3: he walked, you know, it was Yeah, probably not a 41 00:02:26,307 --> 00:02:26,907 Speaker 3: good scene. 42 00:02:27,347 --> 00:02:31,027 Speaker 2: So was this a case of some big personality, some 43 00:02:31,107 --> 00:02:34,267 Speaker 2: big egos? Dare I say in Formula one just clashing? 44 00:02:34,307 --> 00:02:37,427 Speaker 2: What actually happened between Christian Horner and the likes of 45 00:02:37,467 --> 00:02:39,867 Speaker 2: Adrian Newey and the others who left the who left 46 00:02:39,867 --> 00:02:40,787 Speaker 2: the team? 47 00:02:41,187 --> 00:02:43,307 Speaker 3: Well, well, you know, I'm not I don't have any 48 00:02:43,827 --> 00:02:47,427 Speaker 3: personal insight into it, but you know, I believe that 49 00:02:48,627 --> 00:02:51,227 Speaker 3: you know, Adrian, you know, there was a bit of 50 00:02:51,227 --> 00:02:54,507 Speaker 3: a cloud around us, you know, allegation by an employer, 51 00:02:54,747 --> 00:02:58,507 Speaker 3: a female employee against Christian, and I think probably that 52 00:02:58,587 --> 00:03:01,187 Speaker 3: was you know, the male and the coffin for for Adrian, 53 00:03:01,427 --> 00:03:04,267 Speaker 3: he didn't, you know, for whatever reason, none of us know, 54 00:03:05,507 --> 00:03:08,427 Speaker 3: you know, he decided leave the team. And but look, 55 00:03:08,467 --> 00:03:11,987 Speaker 3: you know, Formula ones full of huge personalities, you know, 56 00:03:12,027 --> 00:03:14,467 Speaker 3: the team, the guys that run the teams, you know, 57 00:03:14,547 --> 00:03:19,707 Speaker 3: the designers, the Herodonamesis, the drivers, full of egos and 58 00:03:19,787 --> 00:03:22,867 Speaker 3: you know, I believe Christian has done an amazing job 59 00:03:22,947 --> 00:03:26,747 Speaker 3: for twenty years to mold all of those egos into 60 00:03:26,787 --> 00:03:29,307 Speaker 3: a team that has you know, been one of the 61 00:03:29,307 --> 00:03:32,187 Speaker 3: most successful form lines I've ever seen. And you know, 62 00:03:32,267 --> 00:03:34,227 Speaker 3: so he did a fantastic job for a long time, 63 00:03:34,307 --> 00:03:36,107 Speaker 3: but you know, I guess, you know, you go to 64 00:03:36,147 --> 00:03:39,107 Speaker 3: the top and eventually there's only a couple of ways down, 65 00:03:39,187 --> 00:03:42,187 Speaker 3: and Christians found the hard way down and being relieved 66 00:03:42,187 --> 00:03:42,907 Speaker 3: at as duties. 67 00:03:43,467 --> 00:03:46,107 Speaker 2: I guess in any sport though, barrye twenty years in 68 00:03:46,227 --> 00:03:50,507 Speaker 2: charge of any sporting team, any sporting franchise, any sporting organization, 69 00:03:50,947 --> 00:03:52,707 Speaker 2: that's a that's a heck of a long time, a 70 00:03:52,747 --> 00:03:56,067 Speaker 2: lot changes in two decades, had had his time there, 71 00:03:56,267 --> 00:03:57,667 Speaker 2: just run its course. 72 00:03:58,707 --> 00:04:01,627 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, you know, in the end, that's what's happened. 73 00:04:01,907 --> 00:04:05,107 Speaker 3: I mean, the loss of Deetrich Matchets, you know, who 74 00:04:05,427 --> 00:04:08,987 Speaker 3: obviously was under a Red Bull and you know, funded 75 00:04:09,067 --> 00:04:11,587 Speaker 3: the Red Bull Racing team along with everything else they did, 76 00:04:12,147 --> 00:04:15,347 Speaker 3: you know, his loss, you know, that seemed to sort 77 00:04:15,347 --> 00:04:18,347 Speaker 3: of tie into you know the down down for really 78 00:04:18,467 --> 00:04:20,707 Speaker 3: you know, with you know, he had gone, and then 79 00:04:20,787 --> 00:04:23,547 Speaker 3: you know the helmet Marco and Christian kind of took 80 00:04:23,627 --> 00:04:27,427 Speaker 3: over the team running it, you know, and then I 81 00:04:27,467 --> 00:04:29,347 Speaker 3: don't know, the duties might have been a little bit 82 00:04:29,427 --> 00:04:33,707 Speaker 3: you know, you know clashing, you know there. We really 83 00:04:33,707 --> 00:04:35,427 Speaker 3: don't know. But then of course you've got the factor 84 00:04:35,467 --> 00:04:38,187 Speaker 3: of Maxis staff and you know, probably one of the 85 00:04:38,187 --> 00:04:40,267 Speaker 3: greatest e f F one drivers of the world's ever seen, 86 00:04:40,707 --> 00:04:44,187 Speaker 3: you know, not the greatest, certainly modern day. And you know, 87 00:04:44,307 --> 00:04:48,227 Speaker 3: his team, his father and his management behind the scenes. 88 00:04:48,507 --> 00:04:50,267 Speaker 3: You know, there's been a lot going on there and 89 00:04:50,787 --> 00:04:54,747 Speaker 3: for whatever reason, you know, the father of jos Josseph Steffen, 90 00:04:55,347 --> 00:04:59,707 Speaker 3: Max's father has been pretty vocal, you know, against Christian 91 00:04:59,747 --> 00:05:04,787 Speaker 3: as well. So Mark, the son of Dietrich, has taken 92 00:05:04,867 --> 00:05:09,387 Speaker 3: over the operation. And I guess you know, it's also 93 00:05:09,707 --> 00:05:12,747 Speaker 3: probably not well known, but Red Bull is also fifty 94 00:05:12,747 --> 00:05:17,587 Speaker 3: month percent owned by a tie gentleman and apparently certainly 95 00:05:17,627 --> 00:05:21,067 Speaker 3: the thie Chap was a supporter of question for all 96 00:05:21,107 --> 00:05:24,427 Speaker 3: these years, but maybe lost, you know, Christian loss his 97 00:05:24,547 --> 00:05:26,587 Speaker 3: support in the end, and then it was always one 98 00:05:26,587 --> 00:05:27,067 Speaker 3: way down. 99 00:05:27,187 --> 00:05:32,547 Speaker 2: So there's always talk that or there has been talk 100 00:05:32,587 --> 00:05:37,067 Speaker 2: about Max the staff and leaving Red Bull. With the 101 00:05:37,147 --> 00:05:41,347 Speaker 2: change of ownership, is he more likely to stay, Well, you. 102 00:05:41,387 --> 00:05:44,027 Speaker 3: Know, that's a big question and everybody's trying to answer 103 00:05:44,027 --> 00:05:46,147 Speaker 3: that one. At the moment, only Max and his management 104 00:05:46,187 --> 00:05:48,267 Speaker 3: and I guess the people inside Red Bull know what's 105 00:05:48,307 --> 00:05:51,027 Speaker 3: going on in terms of whether he's going to remain 106 00:05:51,067 --> 00:05:53,347 Speaker 3: with the team. But you know, for sure. Mercedes have 107 00:05:53,467 --> 00:05:56,307 Speaker 3: been courting him, and they've been courting him for a while. 108 00:05:57,427 --> 00:05:59,667 Speaker 3: They have the might and power and the money to 109 00:06:00,547 --> 00:06:02,907 Speaker 3: be able to take the staff in into the longer 110 00:06:03,027 --> 00:06:07,347 Speaker 3: term contract that probably he's looking for next year, new rules, 111 00:06:07,427 --> 00:06:10,547 Speaker 3: new engine, new car. You know, there's a lot of 112 00:06:10,587 --> 00:06:14,147 Speaker 3: debate as to whether, you know, who's going to have 113 00:06:14,187 --> 00:06:17,187 Speaker 3: the best car package, car and engine package, and I 114 00:06:17,227 --> 00:06:20,027 Speaker 3: think the Fetis seemed to have favor there and of 115 00:06:20,067 --> 00:06:23,027 Speaker 3: course red Will also you know they lost Honda for 116 00:06:23,267 --> 00:06:27,947 Speaker 3: their engine supply and shows, which was a Christian kind 117 00:06:27,987 --> 00:06:30,387 Speaker 3: of decision. I believe that. You know, they'd set up 118 00:06:30,427 --> 00:06:33,227 Speaker 3: their own engine shops, so they're building their own engine 119 00:06:33,707 --> 00:06:36,947 Speaker 3: in conjunction with Ford Motor Company, and you know there's 120 00:06:36,987 --> 00:06:39,267 Speaker 3: probably some debate about whether that is going to be 121 00:06:39,307 --> 00:06:42,147 Speaker 3: a competitive unit straight off the bat too. 122 00:06:43,107 --> 00:06:46,307 Speaker 2: How important is the constructor's title because we always hear 123 00:06:46,387 --> 00:06:48,987 Speaker 2: a lot about, you know, who the world drivers champion 124 00:06:49,067 --> 00:06:50,827 Speaker 2: is and we know expus happens one the last four 125 00:06:51,707 --> 00:06:56,027 Speaker 2: How important two teams Barry is the constructor's. 126 00:06:55,427 --> 00:07:00,707 Speaker 3: Title for a team it's the most important thing, almost 127 00:07:00,707 --> 00:07:03,867 Speaker 3: the drivers' championship the second and you know they get 128 00:07:03,907 --> 00:07:07,987 Speaker 3: paid on team results on points and you know, it's 129 00:07:08,067 --> 00:07:10,827 Speaker 3: worth a lot of money. And and of course not 130 00:07:10,907 --> 00:07:14,947 Speaker 3: only do the teams get the you know, the prize 131 00:07:14,947 --> 00:07:17,467 Speaker 3: money if you like, but then that filters down through 132 00:07:17,507 --> 00:07:20,307 Speaker 3: their employees and the people at Red Bull, all of 133 00:07:20,347 --> 00:07:23,187 Speaker 3: the staff over a thousand people, they'd all have a 134 00:07:23,187 --> 00:07:26,427 Speaker 3: bonus every year are based on what they would you know, 135 00:07:26,507 --> 00:07:29,787 Speaker 3: the points that they would score, and so team Team 136 00:07:29,907 --> 00:07:33,307 Speaker 3: championship is everything in terms of their funding. And of 137 00:07:33,307 --> 00:07:36,507 Speaker 3: course then drivers is obviously something that they all love 138 00:07:36,587 --> 00:07:39,027 Speaker 3: to have too, and but it's you know, the driver. 139 00:07:39,107 --> 00:07:41,947 Speaker 3: It's a very individual thing too, you know, through selfish 140 00:07:41,947 --> 00:07:43,827 Speaker 3: part of the whole sport. 141 00:07:44,027 --> 00:07:46,827 Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, Liam Lawson, we know he's in the Red 142 00:07:46,827 --> 00:07:53,747 Speaker 2: Bull stable racing balls. Will this have any impact on him, Barry. 143 00:07:53,667 --> 00:07:55,787 Speaker 3: Look, I'm sure it's you know, it had an impact 144 00:07:55,827 --> 00:07:58,187 Speaker 3: on Liam Wright. You know, obviously we all know at 145 00:07:58,227 --> 00:08:00,027 Speaker 3: the start of this year when he when he was 146 00:08:01,147 --> 00:08:04,467 Speaker 3: placed in the Red Bull car alongside Maxim and given 147 00:08:04,947 --> 00:08:07,307 Speaker 3: two races to perform and actually, you know, that was 148 00:08:07,347 --> 00:08:10,907 Speaker 3: just quite ridiculous in the end to think that, you know, 149 00:08:10,947 --> 00:08:13,667 Speaker 3: he only had that amount of time. And I think 150 00:08:13,707 --> 00:08:16,827 Speaker 3: that's also part of the whole scenario that's gone on 151 00:08:16,947 --> 00:08:19,307 Speaker 3: with the downfall of Christian because you know, in the end, 152 00:08:19,387 --> 00:08:22,587 Speaker 3: Christian would have been involved in making decisions around who 153 00:08:22,627 --> 00:08:24,867 Speaker 3: they were going to put in the second car. Obviously 154 00:08:25,027 --> 00:08:27,867 Speaker 3: chose to put Liam in the car, along with others 155 00:08:27,867 --> 00:08:30,267 Speaker 3: that would make that decision. And you know, so it's 156 00:08:30,267 --> 00:08:32,187 Speaker 3: had an impact on Liam and now he's had to 157 00:08:32,227 --> 00:08:34,587 Speaker 3: reinvent his career back at Racing Balls and we can 158 00:08:34,587 --> 00:08:37,307 Speaker 3: see that he's, you know, he really is starting to 159 00:08:37,347 --> 00:08:40,227 Speaker 3: find his confidence. Had a good result in Austria, it's 160 00:08:40,347 --> 00:08:44,067 Speaker 3: core result in Silverstone, you know, not his own making. 161 00:08:44,107 --> 00:08:47,187 Speaker 3: I guess, you know, the first lap accident. So Liam 162 00:08:47,307 --> 00:08:49,987 Speaker 3: now really has to just get his head down, keep 163 00:08:50,027 --> 00:08:53,507 Speaker 3: his head down and get results. In the end. It's 164 00:08:53,547 --> 00:08:58,347 Speaker 3: a results, results based championship. And you know, so he 165 00:08:58,627 --> 00:09:01,027 Speaker 3: really just has to concentrate on his role as a 166 00:09:01,107 --> 00:09:02,907 Speaker 3: racing driver at Racing Balls. 167 00:09:03,507 --> 00:09:05,667 Speaker 2: Just back to Max for step and you'll be able 168 00:09:05,707 --> 00:09:07,187 Speaker 2: to fill in the gap for a here, Barry, but 169 00:09:07,227 --> 00:09:10,467 Speaker 2: it seems to me as though he's driving a difficult car, 170 00:09:10,587 --> 00:09:13,107 Speaker 2: a very difficult car, because he is, as you said, 171 00:09:14,067 --> 00:09:16,547 Speaker 2: a Formula one genius, one of the best we've ever seen. 172 00:09:17,027 --> 00:09:20,987 Speaker 2: Can can anybody feel that number two seat effectively? 173 00:09:22,587 --> 00:09:25,907 Speaker 3: Look at again a great debate and you know they 174 00:09:26,027 --> 00:09:29,587 Speaker 3: obviously Carez was there for a number of years, you know, 175 00:09:29,747 --> 00:09:34,187 Speaker 3: started to struggle in the car alongside Max, and you 176 00:09:34,227 --> 00:09:36,827 Speaker 3: know there was debait about whether it was you know, 177 00:09:37,147 --> 00:09:40,547 Speaker 3: Krez losing his confidence as you know, as a driver 178 00:09:40,787 --> 00:09:43,147 Speaker 3: and getting a little older and a little bit maybe 179 00:09:43,147 --> 00:09:46,747 Speaker 3: bored or whatever it was. But you know, can someone 180 00:09:46,787 --> 00:09:50,507 Speaker 3: compete against Max? Well it's a big call. And you 181 00:09:50,507 --> 00:09:53,347 Speaker 3: know the car has obviously been developed for him, it's 182 00:09:53,387 --> 00:09:56,587 Speaker 3: gone down a path for his driving style and that 183 00:09:56,827 --> 00:09:59,987 Speaker 3: doesn't suit a lot of guys. You know, it's pretty 184 00:10:00,027 --> 00:10:02,227 Speaker 3: evident that you know a lot of people have to 185 00:10:02,267 --> 00:10:04,547 Speaker 3: try and adapt. And and now you see Sonoda just 186 00:10:04,547 --> 00:10:07,587 Speaker 3: struggling like anything to you know, to even understand, and 187 00:10:07,627 --> 00:10:10,227 Speaker 3: I mean so not a quality racing driver thing around him, 188 00:10:10,267 --> 00:10:13,787 Speaker 3: former one for four plus years, but he's struggling really 189 00:10:13,787 --> 00:10:16,827 Speaker 3: badly with that car. And yeah, look big question marks 190 00:10:17,067 --> 00:10:19,507 Speaker 3: finely on all of that. And you know, but that's 191 00:10:20,147 --> 00:10:22,667 Speaker 3: you know, were all Mexico. That's the question what will 192 00:10:22,667 --> 00:10:24,867 Speaker 3: he do? And time to tell. 193 00:10:25,827 --> 00:10:28,467 Speaker 2: Just to finish then, is there any set of circumstances 194 00:10:28,547 --> 00:10:30,907 Speaker 2: under which we might see Liam back in the Red 195 00:10:30,947 --> 00:10:34,067 Speaker 2: Bull car if Max stays or if Max goes, could 196 00:10:34,387 --> 00:10:37,627 Speaker 2: could or would Liam want to drive the Red Bull again? 197 00:10:38,747 --> 00:10:41,667 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And the way he will get back to Red 198 00:10:41,707 --> 00:10:46,187 Speaker 3: Bull it will be to a most importantly beat his teammate. 199 00:10:46,587 --> 00:10:49,507 Speaker 3: And he's got a very very strong teammate and Hadjar, 200 00:10:49,867 --> 00:10:52,987 Speaker 3: and I think we'll see that Hadjar. I mean, he's 201 00:10:53,027 --> 00:10:56,707 Speaker 3: I think the top shelf, a very very accomplished driver 202 00:10:57,387 --> 00:10:59,627 Speaker 3: doing an amazing job, and Liam's got a big job 203 00:10:59,667 --> 00:11:02,787 Speaker 3: to kind of beat him. He will need to consistently 204 00:11:02,867 --> 00:11:08,827 Speaker 3: show that he is faster, more consistent than Isaac. And 205 00:11:09,507 --> 00:11:11,547 Speaker 3: you know, if he can do that right through to 206 00:11:11,587 --> 00:11:14,067 Speaker 3: the end of the season, then he's definitely in with 207 00:11:14,147 --> 00:11:16,867 Speaker 3: a chance of getting back to Red Bull. And you 208 00:11:16,907 --> 00:11:19,747 Speaker 3: know again Carmifel. But the main thing for Liam how 209 00:11:20,107 --> 00:11:22,587 Speaker 3: he really wants to secure a seat and racing balls 210 00:11:22,707 --> 00:11:26,067 Speaker 3: next year. Concentrate on that and then what will be 211 00:11:26,187 --> 00:11:28,747 Speaker 3: from there will be and I think that needs to 212 00:11:28,747 --> 00:11:29,347 Speaker 3: be his goal. 213 00:11:31,027 --> 00:11:33,627 Speaker 2: Very great to get your insight and your expertise, I've learned, Heapes. 214 00:11:33,667 --> 00:11:36,467 Speaker 2: Thanks much for joining us this afternoon. I really appreciate your. 215 00:11:36,307 --> 00:11:39,627 Speaker 3: Time, my pleasure, mate, and go the all Black People go. 216 00:11:39,547 --> 00:11:42,067 Speaker 2: The Avs indeed, Barry good Man, Barry Tomlins in there, 217 00:11:42,427 --> 00:11:44,947 Speaker 2: founder of the Toyota Racing Series. As you can hear, 218 00:11:44,987 --> 00:11:48,467 Speaker 2: they're a very astute motorsport analyst. Great to get his 219 00:11:48,947 --> 00:11:51,667 Speaker 2: views on what's going to happen at Red Bull with 220 00:11:51,947 --> 00:11:57,187 Speaker 2: Christian Horner departing. The next Formula One weekend actually is 221 00:11:57,227 --> 00:12:00,227 Speaker 2: in Belgium July twenty five through twenty seven, so a 222 00:12:00,227 --> 00:12:03,147 Speaker 2: couple of weeks away before we have Formula One to 223 00:12:03,187 --> 00:12:04,667 Speaker 2: look forward to again. 224 00:12:05,547 --> 00:12:08,907 Speaker 1: For more Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live to 225 00:12:09,027 --> 00:12:12,227 Speaker 1: News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or follow the 226 00:12:12,267 --> 00:12:13,787 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio