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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, a name

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Speaker 1: you can trust locally and.

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Speaker 2: Globally with us on the huddle. Morris Williams and Auckland

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Speaker 2: Council of former National Party Minister Mike Munroe, former a

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Speaker 2: Labor Party chief of staff and director at Mike Munroe Communications. Hi, lads,

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Speaker 2: hear oh Morris. Every time I'm hear we've got to

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Speaker 2: put more money into something. I think this can surely

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Speaker 2: not be the only solution, can it?

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Speaker 3: What I am concerned. I've read this article, I read

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Speaker 3: the Raid in New Zealand piece that came with it,

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Speaker 3: and all the background to it. I keep thinking that

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Speaker 3: my wife and I many years ago, and it's a

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Speaker 3: long sort of before the arc landed on Mount our Rat,

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Speaker 3: we decided we would have children, but we just said

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Speaker 3: we're not earning enough. She was working at a New

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Speaker 3: Zealand and earning more than I was at the time

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Speaker 3: because she was working shift work, and we thought, we

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Speaker 3: just can't afford the kids yet. So we've got to wait.

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Speaker 3: And we saved and we bought a house and we

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Speaker 3: pay and when we finally did decide that the kids

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Speaker 3: were the time Rayland left work altogether and brought up

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Speaker 3: the kids and so on. Now I hear people saying, no,

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Speaker 3: we've got to have two cars, a better life style,

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Speaker 3: lots of overseas trips, and we're going to have kids

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Speaker 3: as well, so somebody else working should be paying for that.

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Speaker 3: And I don't get it. I don't understand. If you're

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Speaker 3: going to have kids and bring them up and have

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Speaker 3: both of you working, there's a cost that you knew beforehand.

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Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of supporting costs you didn't know about,

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Speaker 3: and it just comes out of the blue. If you

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Speaker 3: are a young couple today right now, sitting down thinking

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Speaker 3: of having kids, you know it's going to cost you

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Speaker 3: for childcare if you both are going to work. But

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Speaker 3: somehow it's poor old Johnny taxpayer. It's got to reach

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Speaker 3: into his pocket and pay for other people to have kids.

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Speaker 2: I don't hate where you're going with this, Morris, but

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Speaker 2: the problem that I can see in your argument is

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Speaker 2: unless you actually do help as a state to subsidize

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Speaker 2: the childcare, you are going to end up with a

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Speaker 2: birth rate that drops off the cliff that it's already

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Speaker 2: sitting on.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's already dropped down a very big cliff. We

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Speaker 3: talked about this with the under twenty fives having about

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Speaker 3: a seventh of the number of babies last week. But

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Speaker 3: in the end, there is this element of personal responsibility

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Speaker 3: and bring the cost of things that you choose to do. Now,

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Speaker 3: we've got a pretty generous subsidy you can earn. I think,

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Speaker 3: what is it up to about fifty seven thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: when they take the seven percents off from the thirty

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Speaker 3: five thousand and still be getting a subsidy. All I

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Speaker 3: know is that I grew up in a time when

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Speaker 3: if you wanted to have kids, made the decision to

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Speaker 3: have one of the parents stay at home and not

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Speaker 3: be yearning or at part time job or whatever. It's

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Speaker 3: not good enough to say we need the both incomes

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Speaker 3: and now someone else can pay for the subsidy for.

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Speaker 2: Us too, right, Mike, Is he not right? He's right,

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Speaker 2: isn't he?

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Speaker 4: No, he's not entirely sorry, sorry to tell you that, Marris.

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Speaker 4: I'd rather I'd rather not discussion and go down that

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Speaker 4: personal responsibility path because the fact that the kids are here,

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Speaker 4: the families are here, and we've got to do something

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Speaker 4: about it, and you know, these kids they start their

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Speaker 4: life education journey very early now, obviously, and this is

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Speaker 4: a critical period, early childhood education. And I just think

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Speaker 4: we have to accept that Johnny tex Player as Morris

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Speaker 4: turned them. We'll have to step in and do something

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Speaker 4: about it.

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Speaker 2: But Mike, the stuff that they teach them at ECE

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Speaker 2: is no more than what you would teach them as

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Speaker 2: a full time mum or dad.

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Speaker 4: But the learning dost of learning social skills and learning

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Speaker 4: to become little people. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry and whatever.

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Speaker 2: To come down on the side of Morris with us,

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Speaker 2: and you could make this a thing. But also you're

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Speaker 2: not raising them in an isolation in a bubble, are you. Like,

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Speaker 2: if you're staying at home as a mum or dad,

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Speaker 2: you're taking your kids off to play dates and they're

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Speaker 2: mixing with their siblings and their cousins and stuff. They're

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Speaker 2: going to get it. They don't have to go to

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Speaker 2: ECE before school. If you're a dedicated parent.

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Speaker 4: Either mum or dad or the Kira, whoever's looking ask

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Speaker 4: them at home. He's got other things to do as

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Speaker 4: well as You'll know yourself as a mother, Heather, And

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Speaker 4: so you know, you pack your kids off to eat

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Speaker 4: and at least there's some structure to their day, and

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Speaker 4: there's some you know, there's some pattern to their day.

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Speaker 4: They're learning social skills, they learning to play together, to

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Speaker 4: work together, and I'm sure that's going to be a

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Speaker 4: lot more beneficial in the long run than just been

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Speaker 4: given a ball and told to go out the yard

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Speaker 4: and kick it around for a while.

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Speaker 3: The option, that's not the option. Raywan used to take

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Speaker 3: their kids of the swimming pool every second day and

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Speaker 3: take them to gym monastics some days, and there was

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Speaker 3: playdates where the group of friends would get together and

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Speaker 3: they socialized and the kids learned all sorts of skills.

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Speaker 3: And she wasn't earning a bloody good income then anymore,

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Speaker 3: so it really hurt us financially. I was the only

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Speaker 3: income earner. So if you want to both be out

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Speaker 3: working and earning an income, that you should be prepared

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Speaker 3: to cover the cost of someone looking after your kids.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, But like I say, the fact is the kids

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Speaker 4: are here that their parents are working. They can't be

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Speaker 4: kept at home during the day, so somebody has to

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Speaker 4: look after them. And that's where the early children became.

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Speaker 3: A person who should have been looking them was earning

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Speaker 3: an income.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, no, I think some really valid points have

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Speaker 2: been raised on both sides. Now, I really wasn't expecting

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Speaker 2: that discussion, but thoroughly enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the only

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Speaker 1: truly global brand.

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Speaker 2: Back with us on the huddle we have Mike Munroe

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Speaker 2: and Marris Williamson. Now Mike, the pay equity thing very worthy.

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Speaker 2: They make some good points, but ultimately it's not going

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Speaker 2: to change anything. Right, We're not getting pay equity back,

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Speaker 2: not in that form.

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Speaker 4: No, not in that form, and that's very sad. It's

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Speaker 4: the die is cast. But you know, I think the

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Speaker 4: report has just reminded us what a dog of a

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Speaker 4: scheme this government brought in last year. You know, we've

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Speaker 4: had a world leading arms of reputation, or a great

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Speaker 4: reputation in the world, I should say. We've had social

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Speaker 4: systems and social processes that other countries have admired and

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Speaker 4: wanted to copy forever. Experts in the field said that

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Speaker 4: we had one of the best pay equity laws in

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Speaker 4: the world, best in class system. We had those reputation

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Speaker 4: of being democratic and innovative, blah blah blah, and it

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Speaker 4: feels like all this has just gone up in flames

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Speaker 4: with several things this government has done, and most particularly

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Speaker 4: this change, and it's I think it's, you know, like

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Speaker 4: you say, the report's not going to change anything while

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Speaker 4: this government's in power anyway, it's just underlying that sort

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Speaker 4: of abusive power. And that's a downhill slope that we've

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Speaker 4: been on when it comes to social policy.

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Speaker 2: I can't Marris, I can't see it changing. But I

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Speaker 2: can't see pay equity coming back under any government just

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Speaker 2: because of the sheer cost of the thing.

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Speaker 3: Well. See, I disagree with with Mike obviously, because I

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Speaker 3: think that what Brooklyn Velden said is we believe in

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Speaker 3: pay equity, but you have to be comparing apples with apples,

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Speaker 3: and if you're comparing a graphic artist or something with

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Speaker 3: a air traffic controller. There was all some incredible examples

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Speaker 3: of people in their claims. You didn't say that's not

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Speaker 3: even within the same ballpark. And so it's the same

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Speaker 3: old argument that I believe there should be pay equity

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Speaker 3: for people who are doing work of equal sort of

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Speaker 3: value and equivalence and so on. The big debate about

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Speaker 3: this that sits behind all this is how do you

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Speaker 3: define those levels of equality and equivalence?

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Speaker 2: Listen, Morris, you've got a technical background this medical hack,

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Speaker 2: do you Is that actually a hack?

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Speaker 3: Or is that.

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Speaker 2: Somebody who's working within this system tinkering and accidentally doing

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Speaker 2: something bad.

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Speaker 3: I just read this one, and I'm not sure. I

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Speaker 3: think it could easily be the second that you said.

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Speaker 3: But what I don't quite get is all these people

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Speaker 3: developing these IT systems for medical systems and not putting

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Speaker 3: in place what are just straight out considered, you know,

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Speaker 3: off the shelf protection mechanisms to prevent people coming in

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Speaker 3: and putting a worm into the system and breaking down

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Speaker 3: your data systems and so on. So you can do

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Speaker 3: them a lot cheaper if you don't put all the

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Speaker 3: protections in and then it all happens and breaks loose,

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Speaker 3: and then the data has been leaked and it's oh wow,

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Speaker 3: it was me. I think that anyone is going to

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Speaker 3: hold your medical data needs to have the proper systems

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Speaker 3: of protection in place, I think, so am I Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 3: look at that.

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Speaker 4: The hackers are getting smarter and smarter, so look to

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Speaker 4: people who designed these systems. You're going to have to

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Speaker 4: lift their game as well, you know, I've ed deparment.

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Speaker 4: If they're talking today about you stronger laws, cybersecurity laws,

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Speaker 4: well you know, stronger laws might act as a bit

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Speaker 4: of a deterrent, but they're not going to stop hacking entirely.

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Speaker 4: The threats are These threats are evolving all the time,

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Speaker 4: very rapidly, and inside the crime rates are going up everywhere.

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Speaker 4: So as I say, the people who design the systems,

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Speaker 4: they're just going to have to look their game otherwise

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Speaker 4: to problem just gets worse and worse over time.

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Speaker 3: I guess now I always liken it to tax evasion.

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Speaker 3: The smart companies out there that are avoiding in fact

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Speaker 3: evading tax, which is the illegal, but are always just

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Speaker 3: slightly ahead of the ird and the laws that we

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Speaker 3: keep putting in place in some new laws, and the

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Speaker 3: really top end people are out there just at the

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Speaker 3: sort of leading edge doing it, getting away with it,

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Speaker 3: and then the loophole gets closed and they move on

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Speaker 3: to the next one. That data systems have almost got

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Speaker 3: to be a living system where you're continuously putting patches

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Speaker 3: and updates for all of them, now know and bugs

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Speaker 3: and so on. And if you're not that level of

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Speaker 3: household management of your systems, they're going to get breached

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Speaker 3: and done, and the data is going to get moved

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Speaker 3: off and sold and so on. And I think it's

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Speaker 3: just I think it's quite heartbreaking to hear the number

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Speaker 3: of businesses that have gotten into medical data systems. You

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Speaker 3: expect to be the ones kept very confidential and are

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Speaker 3: getting hacked on a regular basis.

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Speaker 2: Now, yeah, do you have I mean, Mike, have you

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Speaker 2: thought about your medical files and whether you've got embarrassing

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Speaker 2: stuff in there?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: No, not really, It's a fully comprehensive file and given

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Speaker 4: up worrying about it. You know, I'm actually more I'm

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Speaker 4: actually more concerned about the little medical cares I get

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Speaker 4: rather than the maintenance of the files and the data.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, good luck to a hacker getting

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Speaker 4: hold of it and having a read of it. You'll

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Speaker 4: find it pretty pretty boring.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll tell you what if the hack my stuff,

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to air it on the radio before they

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Speaker 2: can release it, just to relieve them of the pressure

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Speaker 2: for one minute, even thinking that I might be embarrassed

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Speaker 2: by anything on there. Guys, thank you as always appreciate it,

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Speaker 2: would you, Mike Monroe and Morris Williams in our Huddle

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Speaker 2: this evening eight Away

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Speaker 1: From six For more from Heather Duplessy Alan Drive, Listen

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Speaker 1: live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio