1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: So more allegations against the Maori Party over the misuse 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: of private information to influence their election campaign. As it stands, 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: the accusation as they misused both census and COVID vaccine 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: data to target voters. The party denied all stats and 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: z's investigating the officer of the Privacy Commissioners involved. They 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: passed a complaint onto police. The labor parties talked to 7 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: the police. Ellen Hults is an employment advocate representing six 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: former Maria staff and one MSD worker who laid these complaints, 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: and he's with us Hellen morning to. 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: You, Good morning, right. 11 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: So your role in this is what just for clarifications sake, 12 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: you're representing these people. 13 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 2: I'm representing them and helping them potentially declare their names 14 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: because at the times these events were taking place last year, 15 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 2: they were raising their concerns with their employers, and the 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: employers being the MARII and also with mist now in 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: the and what happened to them. A number of the 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: six Marie workers were falsely accused by the chief executive 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 2: of things that hadn't been done, and basically those people 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: left and a number of their team left with them 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: because they were implicated in these false allegations. And the 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 2: MASD worker who was a cocation officer based at the Marai, 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: she was taken off the site BYMSD because of a 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: complaint from the chief executive. So the people that were 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: raising concerns were targeted and suffered retaliation. So my role 26 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: is to try and help them firstly clear the names 27 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: and then secondly address the unjustified disadvantagement experienced. 28 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: All right, just also for clarifications sake, the allegations from 29 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: the Mariah towards your clients, if you want to call 30 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: them that, are they suggesting that the so called wrongs 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: that we're talking about, the information, the distribution, the collection 32 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: of information, are they accusing them of that or something. 33 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: Different something similar. They basically have accused our clients of 34 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: what they were actually doing themselves. So it was to 35 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 2: spare their name to discredit them. And the same things 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: happening currently with the head of wapper Era Trust and 37 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 2: the Murray Party basically saying these allegations are baseless when 38 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: they're not, and I've seen them and we work kind 39 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: of evidence, so everything is evidence based and there is 40 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: sufficient evidence. Well, my role now is to help structure 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: an investigation that is going to look at all the 42 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: issues involved. And believe me, Mike, this case has more 43 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: tentacle ciner octopus. 44 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: I'm into it. I already got to that part. So 45 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: we've got two things. We got the centers, got the 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: COVID information. How much of it's a legality issue as 47 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: opposed to a if you want to use the word 48 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: misappropriation issue, in other words, you shouldn't have done it, 49 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: but you're not going to end up in jail for it. 50 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: Okay, So you're right, there's two aspects. So there's a 51 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: the criminal and police. We'll look at the criminal, which 52 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: is and some of it will look at as breaches 53 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: of the Public Records Act two thousand and five in 54 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: the Privacy Act twenty twenty. And then is also the treating, 55 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: which is a breach of two hundred and seventy of 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: the electoral at ninety ninety three. So police we'll be 57 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: looking at that. But the other investigation needs to look 58 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: into the unethical conduct was took place. And I see 59 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: the villains here as the public service. So NSD I 60 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: can tell you that our whistleblower that work and so 61 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: work through MISD. She's used to protective disclosure Act. She 62 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: declared her concerns. At every single stage. She would pune 63 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: up her manager and say this is happening at Demari, 64 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: this is happening at DEBRAI. She did that continuously until 65 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: a complaint went from the Marai tomsc and she was 66 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: removed from the site with no explanation, no investigation, and 67 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: has basically been vilified. And because she can't trust them, 68 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: he hasn't returned to work. Our client and I have 69 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: tried to meet with the chief executive of MSD. They 70 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: won't meet. The other six clients that I have tried 71 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: to meet with the Marai they won't meet. So it's 72 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: not a So there are people that are hiding. They 73 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: are willing to basically stand up for what they've done, 74 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: But my real fear is victimization, and my role now 75 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: is to protect them. 76 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: Hand on heart. You have I seen evidence that, without 77 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: a shadow of a doubt, is in breach of something, 78 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: whether it be the law or the rules. 79 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely hand on art I can say that, and I 80 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 2: speak as somebody that has twice been a district census 81 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 2: supervisor and five times the returning office of the General Elections. 82 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: So I understand how they meant to be done and 83 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: they I did this back in the nineteen eighties and 84 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: nineteen nineties, but the basic principle remains the same now 85 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: morel concerns like MASD, they funded activities. They basically funded 86 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: the election campaign run by the former chief Executive of 87 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: the Marai so Marii's staff and it was over fifty 88 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: of them basically campaigned for the chief executive the entire 89 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: time she ran for elections. So once she decided, they 90 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: were working on her campaign case. So MISB funded that 91 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: and a lot of the money intended for people that 92 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: are on benefits never got there because it was being 93 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 2: used in this way. So that's the first thing. So 94 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: ICUMSD is needing to be investigated then comes that's New 95 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: Zealand and they were advised early on of issues here 96 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: and despite what they say, didn't investigate. And the same 97 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: with the Electoral Commission. The first day voting took place 98 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: at Manuru and Mariah your complaints that went to the 99 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: Electoral Commission. Now what we're not happy with is these 100 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 2: investigations taking place in Solos, so there needs to be 101 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: a police investigation. So really happy with how that's working 102 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: out and by client and I are hoping to meet 103 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 2: and drop off more evidence today and then that's an 104 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: opened And the other thing that needs to happen that 105 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: there has to be an investigation into the role of 106 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: the public service, So that includes MSD, that's New Zealand 107 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: and the Electoral Commissioner, and that it's our belief that 108 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: investigation needs to be conducted by somebody that doesn't owe 109 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: any allegiance to the public service. And already STATS New 110 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: Zealand have done what public services do an ideal with 111 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: cases of public service. So I'd probably have twenty cases 112 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: right now for in cases. But the first thing they 113 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: do is a point a payme investigator and they've set 114 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: terms of reference and a scope that doesn't allow the 115 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: majority of the evidence to be heard. So if the 116 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: STATS New Zealand haven't contacted me or anymore times, I 117 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: could tell them the scope, I could tell them the 118 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: extent of what's going on. So at some point they're 119 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: going to come out with something that will maybe look 120 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: at a quarter of what happened. So that's my role 121 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: is how can we set up a process because they're 122 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: all allegations and they need to be investigated, and nobody's 123 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: skilled to be of anything and toll. The investigation has concluded. 124 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: Well explained Ellen, Listen, We'll stay in touch. I appreciated 125 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: very much, Ellen Holts. I think we've got a good 126 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: background as to what we're dealing with there and an 127 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: element of how much complexity there is. There's got a 128 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: long way to go, clearly. For more from the Mic 129 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks that'd be from 130 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.