1 00:00:06,707 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,787 Speaker 1: from newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:12,907 --> 00:00:16,627 Speaker 2: SO announced on Thursday around lunchtime that Leon McDonald was 4 00:00:16,747 --> 00:00:19,747 Speaker 2: leaving his role as an All Black's assistant coach. New 5 00:00:19,827 --> 00:00:23,707 Speaker 2: Zealand Rugby's media release said he and head coach Scott 6 00:00:23,787 --> 00:00:28,307 Speaker 2: Robinson have been having some robust but constructive discussions on 7 00:00:28,347 --> 00:00:31,147 Speaker 2: the approach to drive the All Blacks, but the pair 8 00:00:31,267 --> 00:00:35,507 Speaker 2: have different coaching views and both agreed it wasn't working, 9 00:00:35,587 --> 00:00:38,547 Speaker 2: so they've mutually agreed to part ways. Here is New 10 00:00:38,627 --> 00:00:43,027 Speaker 2: Zealand Rugby's head of the professional game, Chris Lendram, speaking 11 00:00:43,067 --> 00:00:44,347 Speaker 2: shortly after the announcement. 12 00:00:44,627 --> 00:00:47,587 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think, as I said, the conversations have 13 00:00:47,627 --> 00:00:51,307 Speaker 3: been going for a few weeks, and really it's probably 14 00:00:51,387 --> 00:00:55,427 Speaker 3: the intensity of preparing for chest matches we can week 15 00:00:55,507 --> 00:01:00,347 Speaker 3: out that's highlighted that they're just not quite aligned. And 16 00:01:00,867 --> 00:01:04,147 Speaker 3: as I say, they've made a really brave and bold 17 00:01:04,187 --> 00:01:07,027 Speaker 3: early decision and the best interests of the team to 18 00:01:07,107 --> 00:01:07,627 Speaker 3: call it now. 19 00:01:07,867 --> 00:01:10,187 Speaker 2: Former All Blacks legend and co host of The Breakdown 20 00:01:10,227 --> 00:01:12,227 Speaker 2: on Sky Sport Jeff Wilson as well as Jeff was 21 00:01:12,587 --> 00:01:14,627 Speaker 2: a surprise to you when you heard the news. 22 00:01:14,947 --> 00:01:18,187 Speaker 4: Piney, absolutely, you know, like what five test matches in 23 00:01:18,707 --> 00:01:21,347 Speaker 4: we're thinking to ourselves. You know, the All Blacks were 24 00:01:21,787 --> 00:01:25,067 Speaker 4: certainly moving forward. They had a really impressive second performance 25 00:01:25,107 --> 00:01:28,227 Speaker 4: against Argentina and you were wondering how the next challenge 26 00:01:28,267 --> 00:01:30,867 Speaker 4: in South Africa was going to go. But now once 27 00:01:30,907 --> 00:01:34,907 Speaker 4: the news broke surprise, then you hear the comments coming 28 00:01:34,947 --> 00:01:36,907 Speaker 4: out of the All Blacks from Scott robertson the head coach. 29 00:01:37,707 --> 00:01:40,747 Speaker 4: Clearly they wanted to go in a different direction. There's 30 00:01:40,787 --> 00:01:44,147 Speaker 4: no doubt. You know they've worked before briefly at the Crusaders. 31 00:01:44,307 --> 00:01:48,227 Speaker 4: They worked together long, but we didn't always think about 32 00:01:48,227 --> 00:01:50,507 Speaker 4: you finely when they named their coaching squad and we 33 00:01:51,307 --> 00:01:53,867 Speaker 4: then saw Tarmody Allison add to the group. There's a 34 00:01:53,907 --> 00:01:56,587 Speaker 4: lot of people, a lot of voices, a lot of 35 00:01:56,587 --> 00:01:59,987 Speaker 4: information and even Razor himself that talked after after a 36 00:02:00,027 --> 00:02:02,547 Speaker 4: couple of test matches they weren't going out and executing 37 00:02:02,907 --> 00:02:05,507 Speaker 4: what the plans that had been training. So whether or 38 00:02:05,587 --> 00:02:08,987 Speaker 4: not they felt they needed to reduce the number of voices, 39 00:02:09,387 --> 00:02:13,667 Speaker 4: and clearly those discussions have led to this point where 40 00:02:13,667 --> 00:02:16,547 Speaker 4: we are now where it's Leo McDonald. They felt as 41 00:02:16,547 --> 00:02:18,787 Speaker 4: though it was the voice they didn't need any longer. 42 00:02:19,267 --> 00:02:21,307 Speaker 2: You've been traveling around obviously covering the All Blacks and 43 00:02:21,347 --> 00:02:23,107 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four well for a long time, but this 44 00:02:23,187 --> 00:02:25,667 Speaker 2: year in particular, Jeff, have you picked up anything you 45 00:02:25,707 --> 00:02:27,947 Speaker 2: know from being down on the sideline just observing. Have 46 00:02:28,027 --> 00:02:30,427 Speaker 2: you picked up anything in the relationship between the two 47 00:02:31,147 --> 00:02:33,907 Speaker 2: that you know in hindsight you've looked back and gone, 48 00:02:33,947 --> 00:02:34,907 Speaker 2: oh okay. 49 00:02:35,787 --> 00:02:37,387 Speaker 4: Oh no, not at all. But this is a really 50 00:02:37,427 --> 00:02:40,627 Speaker 4: high pressure environment and you know the expectations you would 51 00:02:40,627 --> 00:02:44,267 Speaker 4: have then any management for not to be noticeable. And 52 00:02:44,267 --> 00:02:45,947 Speaker 4: I've actually spoken to a couple of people in and 53 00:02:45,987 --> 00:02:48,707 Speaker 4: around the All Back and they haven't noticed anything you know, 54 00:02:48,827 --> 00:02:51,347 Speaker 4: untoward over the last month. It's clearly just like say, 55 00:02:51,347 --> 00:02:53,907 Speaker 4: a different opinion on where the game needs to go. 56 00:02:53,987 --> 00:02:56,827 Speaker 4: And also, I think one of the challenges was always 57 00:02:56,827 --> 00:02:59,427 Speaker 4: going to be when you've been a head coach and 58 00:02:59,467 --> 00:03:01,667 Speaker 4: then going back to being an assistant coach, and that's 59 00:03:01,707 --> 00:03:04,467 Speaker 4: what Lea McDonald was being asked to do. And you know, 60 00:03:04,467 --> 00:03:07,267 Speaker 4: you get the sense that with the person these and 61 00:03:07,307 --> 00:03:09,427 Speaker 4: the responsibilities that come as being in the All Blacks 62 00:03:09,427 --> 00:03:11,387 Speaker 4: should be to be really really clear on what your 63 00:03:11,467 --> 00:03:13,667 Speaker 4: role is and you know, with the number of coaches 64 00:03:13,747 --> 00:03:16,827 Speaker 4: they had, the amount of actual time and opportunity to 65 00:03:16,867 --> 00:03:19,827 Speaker 4: have influence would have been very, very small. So maybe 66 00:03:19,867 --> 00:03:22,147 Speaker 4: this has just freed up a little bit of that time. 67 00:03:22,587 --> 00:03:25,827 Speaker 4: They've reassigned some of the responsibilities and now Scott Henson 68 00:03:25,827 --> 00:03:29,187 Speaker 4: has moved across to attack and Tarmody Ellison who's gone 69 00:03:29,227 --> 00:03:32,227 Speaker 4: from contact skills, so the work around the breakdown has 70 00:03:32,267 --> 00:03:34,627 Speaker 4: gone to defense, which is always something he's been fit with. 71 00:03:34,627 --> 00:03:37,587 Speaker 4: For the Crusaders, it's just been a bit of repositioning 72 00:03:37,627 --> 00:03:40,467 Speaker 4: and you know, now I think they're focusing on everyone 73 00:03:40,547 --> 00:03:42,867 Speaker 4: being exactly on the same page. And as you know, 74 00:03:42,947 --> 00:03:45,587 Speaker 4: if you've got a lot of voices, very hard to 75 00:03:45,627 --> 00:03:48,187 Speaker 4: be really consistent in the messages you're trying to get. 76 00:03:48,227 --> 00:03:50,787 Speaker 4: So by the sound of things, a lot of that 77 00:03:50,867 --> 00:03:53,547 Speaker 4: voice now is going to Scott Hanson. It sounds as 78 00:03:53,587 --> 00:03:56,907 Speaker 4: though he is inside that group, is driving a lot 79 00:03:56,907 --> 00:04:00,547 Speaker 4: of that tactical work that's going on the pitch. And look, 80 00:04:00,747 --> 00:04:03,147 Speaker 4: I think if you talk to Scott Robertson himself, he's 81 00:04:03,147 --> 00:04:05,747 Speaker 4: been on making sure that the culture is right from 82 00:04:06,027 --> 00:04:08,547 Speaker 4: week week in and around the All Blacks. So not 83 00:04:08,747 --> 00:04:12,347 Speaker 4: some subtle changes it's going to get tested then South. 84 00:04:12,107 --> 00:04:14,427 Speaker 2: Africa are there's still too many voices. 85 00:04:15,547 --> 00:04:17,987 Speaker 4: Look, I went back and compared just just you know, 86 00:04:18,267 --> 00:04:20,307 Speaker 4: to compare what went to the Rugby World Cup last 87 00:04:20,347 --> 00:04:23,547 Speaker 4: year with the All Blacks in Foster, Jusement, Jason Yin, 88 00:04:23,587 --> 00:04:26,907 Speaker 4: Greg Beak and Spot McCloud. So you're at the same 89 00:04:26,987 --> 00:04:29,347 Speaker 4: number now. I mean that's where you've got to. I 90 00:04:29,387 --> 00:04:32,187 Speaker 4: think this has been more around, you know, I think 91 00:04:32,467 --> 00:04:35,587 Speaker 4: the assignment of those roles and it's almost like they 92 00:04:35,627 --> 00:04:37,387 Speaker 4: were just always a little bit too heavy. There was 93 00:04:37,427 --> 00:04:39,587 Speaker 4: just that one number two more side. You know. I 94 00:04:39,867 --> 00:04:42,587 Speaker 4: don't think they're like they've got too many there now. 95 00:04:42,747 --> 00:04:45,787 Speaker 4: I always thought they were one one over the top 96 00:04:46,787 --> 00:04:48,787 Speaker 4: to what they needed and let's just see how it 97 00:04:48,787 --> 00:04:51,427 Speaker 4: plays out now, you know, like this is I think 98 00:04:51,427 --> 00:04:54,947 Speaker 4: this has been a learning experience for Scott Robertson and 99 00:04:54,987 --> 00:04:57,667 Speaker 4: his team, you know about you know, the pressures and 100 00:04:57,707 --> 00:05:00,027 Speaker 4: responsibilities and just how hard it is to prepare an 101 00:05:00,067 --> 00:05:02,067 Speaker 4: All Black side to play kiss rugby. 102 00:05:02,347 --> 00:05:04,587 Speaker 2: There were far fewer voices, you know when you were 103 00:05:04,627 --> 00:05:07,547 Speaker 2: playing for the All Blacks, But were you in environments 104 00:05:07,587 --> 00:05:10,547 Speaker 2: where there were differing views or you were getting two 105 00:05:10,547 --> 00:05:13,147 Speaker 2: different messages from a head coach and an assistant. 106 00:05:13,907 --> 00:05:16,387 Speaker 4: Well we only ever had like three coaches max, so 107 00:05:16,867 --> 00:05:20,947 Speaker 4: there was and and with that became responsibilities. I was 108 00:05:20,947 --> 00:05:22,747 Speaker 4: speaking to John Hart about it over the last couple 109 00:05:22,787 --> 00:05:25,267 Speaker 4: of days, you know, like you know, virtually there was 110 00:05:25,267 --> 00:05:27,427 Speaker 4: there was two or three guys that was it, you know, 111 00:05:27,547 --> 00:05:30,707 Speaker 4: and then the senior players. And look, I played with 112 00:05:30,747 --> 00:05:32,707 Speaker 4: the vasty experience group when I first got in there, 113 00:05:32,707 --> 00:05:34,827 Speaker 4: and that's you know, you're talking about that the heart 114 00:05:34,867 --> 00:05:38,067 Speaker 4: of the Blues and Auckland team, right, So they themselves 115 00:05:38,347 --> 00:05:40,947 Speaker 4: had been around long enough to understand what works and 116 00:05:40,947 --> 00:05:43,347 Speaker 4: what doesn't work. And I don't think we should underestimate 117 00:05:43,347 --> 00:05:46,107 Speaker 4: that as well, is that the all back players themselves, 118 00:05:46,667 --> 00:05:50,227 Speaker 4: they do a lot of the strategizing, explaining what world 119 00:05:50,347 --> 00:05:53,147 Speaker 4: might work. And I think there's another site to this 120 00:05:53,507 --> 00:05:56,747 Speaker 4: of getting all of those opinions and work together. And 121 00:05:56,827 --> 00:05:59,747 Speaker 4: we've also got a new leadership group that's trying to 122 00:05:59,787 --> 00:06:02,467 Speaker 4: expand after a vast number of test matches left after 123 00:06:02,547 --> 00:06:04,907 Speaker 4: last years Rugby World Cup. So I think there's a 124 00:06:04,907 --> 00:06:06,587 Speaker 4: lot of moving pieces. But like you said, it was 125 00:06:06,667 --> 00:06:08,707 Speaker 4: very different when I played, but you see it now, 126 00:06:08,747 --> 00:06:12,507 Speaker 4: this is a machine that's squads are large. You know, 127 00:06:12,547 --> 00:06:14,867 Speaker 4: you have to be very very clear on the information 128 00:06:14,947 --> 00:06:17,827 Speaker 4: if you want to get accuracy and clarity as you're 129 00:06:17,867 --> 00:06:20,387 Speaker 4: going into test matches, and I think that's what they 130 00:06:20,667 --> 00:06:22,987 Speaker 4: were a little bit uncomfortable with and they've had to 131 00:06:23,067 --> 00:06:23,547 Speaker 4: move forward. 132 00:06:23,947 --> 00:06:26,467 Speaker 2: Are you worried about the disruption to the team as 133 00:06:26,467 --> 00:06:30,147 Speaker 2: they head to South Africa for two massive test matches 134 00:06:30,147 --> 00:06:31,227 Speaker 2: over the next two weekends. 135 00:06:32,627 --> 00:06:34,387 Speaker 4: Look, one of our talking points at the moment is 136 00:06:34,387 --> 00:06:36,587 Speaker 4: there's a number of guys, young guys who had never 137 00:06:36,627 --> 00:06:40,147 Speaker 4: even been to South Africa, you know who once they 138 00:06:40,227 --> 00:06:42,267 Speaker 4: went out of Super Rugby And it was not many, 139 00:06:43,547 --> 00:06:45,787 Speaker 4: but there's a few guys that haven't experienced. But I 140 00:06:45,827 --> 00:06:49,107 Speaker 4: think the benefit of what happened a couple of years 141 00:06:49,107 --> 00:06:52,107 Speaker 4: ago to the All Blacks in South Africa when there 142 00:06:52,187 --> 00:06:55,227 Speaker 4: was huge pressure on Emboss in his team, majority of 143 00:06:55,267 --> 00:06:58,067 Speaker 4: these players in this group starting group would have been 144 00:06:58,067 --> 00:07:00,267 Speaker 4: there and done that and experienced and seen it, and 145 00:07:00,347 --> 00:07:03,307 Speaker 4: they were able to focus, refocus and put on one 146 00:07:03,347 --> 00:07:05,587 Speaker 4: of the big best best performances I've seen from All 147 00:07:05,587 --> 00:07:07,107 Speaker 4: Black teamers. So they have to for a long long 148 00:07:07,147 --> 00:07:10,627 Speaker 4: time to win that second Test match. So I don't 149 00:07:10,627 --> 00:07:13,027 Speaker 4: think the focus for the team will be too hard. 150 00:07:13,067 --> 00:07:14,587 Speaker 4: I think there's enough guys there, and I think this 151 00:07:14,627 --> 00:07:17,027 Speaker 4: is a time we're grateful for a Sam Kine to 152 00:07:17,067 --> 00:07:19,907 Speaker 4: still be around, you know, whether he starts or comes 153 00:07:19,907 --> 00:07:21,827 Speaker 4: off the bench or what he might do. But I 154 00:07:21,867 --> 00:07:25,307 Speaker 4: think having his leadership, Scott Barrett returning. You know, there 155 00:07:25,347 --> 00:07:27,587 Speaker 4: was a couple of huge performances a couple of years 156 00:07:27,627 --> 00:07:30,147 Speaker 4: ago from the likes of a Tyree Lomix where they 157 00:07:30,267 --> 00:07:33,667 Speaker 4: know what to expect. These guys will be prepared, but 158 00:07:34,347 --> 00:07:36,987 Speaker 4: you know it will still be a little bit you'd 159 00:07:37,027 --> 00:07:38,867 Speaker 4: have to think it'll be a little bit uncomfortable, right, 160 00:07:38,907 --> 00:07:41,667 Speaker 4: just for a few days at least, going okay, how's 161 00:07:41,707 --> 00:07:42,347 Speaker 4: this going to work? 162 00:07:42,867 --> 00:07:45,147 Speaker 2: What your gut feel on what Leon McDonald will do. 163 00:07:45,147 --> 00:07:49,827 Speaker 4: Now, regardless of what happens. You know, anyone who's been 164 00:07:49,867 --> 00:07:53,267 Speaker 4: in the all black environment, they find opportunities overseas. I mean, 165 00:07:53,267 --> 00:07:55,427 Speaker 4: he was in hot demand. Remember when one of us 166 00:07:55,467 --> 00:07:58,227 Speaker 4: was playing out. You know there's rumors floating around other 167 00:07:58,307 --> 00:08:01,147 Speaker 4: international sides at the Ruggy World Cup we're looking for 168 00:08:01,187 --> 00:08:04,267 Speaker 4: head coaches. His name was being banded around. Look, Japan 169 00:08:04,347 --> 00:08:07,387 Speaker 4: will always be an option. Guy who's got a huge 170 00:08:07,387 --> 00:08:10,747 Speaker 4: amount of experience I get the sense though he's got 171 00:08:10,787 --> 00:08:13,787 Speaker 4: a bit of time on his hands. I'm sure there 172 00:08:13,787 --> 00:08:17,747 Speaker 4: would have been a vast negotiation right, you know, around 173 00:08:17,747 --> 00:08:21,147 Speaker 4: his contract that he would have certainly been given to Winn. 174 00:08:21,187 --> 00:08:23,307 Speaker 4: There's gardening league or a little bit of a break. 175 00:08:23,347 --> 00:08:25,907 Speaker 4: But he'll get an opportunity to coach again soon. 176 00:08:25,987 --> 00:08:28,587 Speaker 2: All right. Just before you go, Bunnings MPC carries on 177 00:08:28,787 --> 00:08:31,107 Speaker 2: no all blacks this weekend, but Hawks Bay kept the 178 00:08:31,107 --> 00:08:33,067 Speaker 2: shield last night by a penny. Three from three my 179 00:08:33,227 --> 00:08:36,947 Speaker 2: Wellington unbeaten Tasman, unbeaten Auckland. Oh and two you're enjoying 180 00:08:36,987 --> 00:08:37,787 Speaker 2: the Bunnings MPC. 181 00:08:38,587 --> 00:08:41,387 Speaker 4: Mate, I've got a fantastic game the Southternoon looking forward 182 00:08:41,387 --> 00:08:43,267 Speaker 4: to this. I've got Aukland. Canterbury and Auckland are on 183 00:08:43,307 --> 00:08:45,827 Speaker 4: the ropes. Man. They are on the ropes because I 184 00:08:46,347 --> 00:08:48,867 Speaker 4: looked at last year's table and you need to win 185 00:08:48,907 --> 00:08:51,827 Speaker 4: five games. It took five games to make the playoffs 186 00:08:51,827 --> 00:08:53,867 Speaker 4: to make the top eight. We'll've only got eight games 187 00:08:53,867 --> 00:08:57,227 Speaker 4: to go and they've got all the big guns pretty much. 188 00:08:57,467 --> 00:09:00,467 Speaker 4: They've got many who look really really strong, White Cuttle. 189 00:09:00,667 --> 00:09:02,987 Speaker 4: They've got to go through North Harbor, They've got to 190 00:09:02,987 --> 00:09:07,067 Speaker 4: go through Hawks Bay. If they don't get a win today, Canonbury, 191 00:09:07,507 --> 00:09:10,867 Speaker 4: she's she's some tens times in ed Eton Park, so 192 00:09:10,947 --> 00:09:13,227 Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to that. But they have plenty been good, 193 00:09:13,827 --> 00:09:16,307 Speaker 4: been good action Bok's Bay. You know they're going to 194 00:09:16,347 --> 00:09:19,387 Speaker 4: be tough to get the shield off, really hard. So yeah, 195 00:09:19,547 --> 00:09:22,347 Speaker 4: like what I'm saying. And some tellan and Rico Simpson 196 00:09:22,387 --> 00:09:25,187 Speaker 4: might get to go off the beach for Auckland today 197 00:09:25,987 --> 00:09:28,107 Speaker 4: Star under twenty players, So a lot to look forward to. 198 00:09:28,187 --> 00:09:30,107 Speaker 2: Good on you, Jeff. Always love chatting rugby. Thanks for 199 00:09:30,147 --> 00:09:30,707 Speaker 2: taking the time. 200 00:09:31,227 --> 00:09:32,387 Speaker 4: Always a pleasure, chess mate. 201 00:09:32,387 --> 00:09:35,067 Speaker 2: Now, thank you, Jeff. Jeff Wilson. There from the Breakdown 202 00:09:35,147 --> 00:09:36,907 Speaker 2: on Sky for more All Black of course. 203 00:09:37,427 --> 00:09:40,587 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 204 00:09:40,707 --> 00:09:43,987 Speaker 1: to News Talks ed B weekends from midday, or follow 205 00:09:44,027 --> 00:09:45,667 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio