1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Today the courts heard more about the injuries found in 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Pauline Hannah's body after she died and wire mark seemingly disappeared. 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: We're into the third week of the trial of Philip Poulkinghorn, 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: who's accused of murdering his wife. Now he maintains it 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: with suicide. Chelsea Daniels has been following the trial for 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: US and it is with us now, Hey, Chelsea, I 7 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: am Today we heard from the pathologist who did Pauline's autopsy. 8 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: What did he say? 9 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: Well, Doctor Kahlak Kesher did Hannah's post mortem on April sixth, 10 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, the day after she was reported dead, 11 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: and there was an abrasion on the bridge of her 12 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: nose and her back and a cluster of bruising on 13 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: her back of her right arm, and she was bleeding 14 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: from the ear. Small pinpoint hemorrhages or contusions were found, 15 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 2: and they're commonly seen when there's an obstruction of the 16 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: neck veins. Kesher said he had seen a belt impression 17 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 2: on the neck at the scene, a criss cross pattern 18 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: on the right side, and an officer there alerted him 19 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: to a belt found. He said it looked identical were. 20 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: These taken at the post mortem. Yes, this is taken 21 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 3: out the post mortem roughly twenty hours later. 22 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: And as you can see, there is no markings left. 23 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 3: Right, So the markings have gone away to some greater 24 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 3: or lesser skin. Yes, what does that suggest to you? 25 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 3: Was there any bruising underneath the skin? No, there was 26 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: no bruising under the skin or in the muscles of 27 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: the neck. And what does that suggest to you? The 28 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 3: terms can that there was an object, most likely the 29 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: belt on the neck after death. 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: That's compelling, right, But pretty much immediately after defense lawyer 31 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: Ron Mansfield began his cross examination, he got Kasher to 32 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: concede the belt could have been used in her death 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: then removed shortly after she died. 34 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 3: And if it had been removed one to two perhaps 35 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: longer hours after her death, then that might also explain, 36 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: might it not? Why it was seen on the fifth 37 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: but it wasn't on the sixth. It's possible, but I 38 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 3: would say it's less than two hours. Well, we can 39 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: agree the time period might be one to two hours, 40 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 3: couldn't we It's possible. Yes, Well both possibilities are equal, 41 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 3: aren't they Yes, So the absence of the belt impression 42 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 3: by the time you do the autopsy on the sixth 43 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: simply means one of two things. Perhaps it was placed 44 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: on her neck after her death, yes, or she was 45 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 3: discovered dead and it was removed one to two hours 46 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 3: following her death. Yes, And you can't tell us, can 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,399 Speaker 3: you which one of those is more likely than the other? 48 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: That's crypt they can't. 49 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: Chelsea. What about those injuries that you mentioned earlier, So. 50 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: Those pinpoint hemorrhages, for example, could be a result of 51 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: suicide by hanging. Bruises on her right arm, which he 52 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: earlier said were consistent with being grabbed, were difficult to 53 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 2: gauge and age actually and how, and could have been 54 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: caused by perhaps her being steadied by a personal trainer 55 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: at the gym. It's also hard to say when the 56 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: abrasion on her nose happened, but Kesha did say it 57 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: happened before or about her death. They spent a lot 58 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: of time going through what kind of defensive wounds you'd 59 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: see in someone who was actually fighting for their life. 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: Scratches on the neck and on the assailant, we know 61 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: there aren't anything like these. There were injuries though, to 62 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: her head and for her nose example, for example, that 63 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: could have happened during an assault, but they could have 64 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: also happened by accident. You can never really tell. 65 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: So then what's the conclusion. How did she die? 66 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: Well, that's the whole crux of this case, Heather, isn't it? 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: The pathologist says, the neck compression he's noted as the 68 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: cause of death could have been anything from a multitude 69 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: of things, such as manual or ligature strangulation, or partial 70 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: or full suspension hanging. The pathologists can't basically rule out 71 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: any of these, and it can't rule any in either 72 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: or definitively. 73 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: Say which one it was. 74 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: So that's why this case is so full of so 75 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: much circumstantial evidence. The jury has to decide whether it's 76 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 2: murder or suicide. The forensic and pathology evidence, as we've 77 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: just heard, isn't so black and white. 78 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: Chelsea, thanks for running us through it again. That's Chelsea Daniels, 79 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: our reporter who was in court for this. 80 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 3: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 81 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 3: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 82 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio.