1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Now, master Card has released a survey that it says

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,480
Speaker 1: shows kiwis want surcharges band Apparently, sixty one percent of

3
00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,280
Speaker 1: US would support a ban, Seventy five percent of US

4
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,920
Speaker 1: do not believe that surcharging is fair. Forty four percent

5
00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,040
Speaker 1: of US think that retailers should absorb into change fees

6
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,840
Speaker 1: without surcharging or without increasing the price. And Jessica Walker

7
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 1: is Consumers Acting Head of Research and Advocacy. Hey Jessica, Hi,

8
00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,599
Speaker 1: how are you doing. I'm very well. I need you

9
00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 1: to I need you to explain something to me. Jessica.

10
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 1: I look at this coming from MasterCard, who I believe

11
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 1: are ultimately responsible for the fact that we get surcharged,

12
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 1: and I think they have got a bloody brass neck

13
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 1: putting something like this out. Am I wrong?

14
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,839
Speaker 2: Well, it's really complicated, and I feel like I'm always

15
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 2: staying complicating. It sounds like a cop up. But payment

16
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 2: systems are really complicated, and businesses are charged a fee

17
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 2: for using these these payment networks. And so of course

18
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,680
Speaker 2: Visa and MasterCard are going to benefit from surcharges being

19
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 2: bunned because it means that more people will use Visa

20
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 2: and master Cards. Because it will be free for them

21
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 2: to do so. But we think we've gone on the

22
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 2: record and said that surcharges are a national embarrassment, and

23
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,959
Speaker 2: we stand by that. There is a huge problem.

24
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,840
Speaker 1: Blame for them? Who do you blame for them? Do

25
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,240
Speaker 1: you blame Do you blame MasterCard and Visa who have

26
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: who introduced the fees? Do you blame the retail banks

27
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 1: who also have fees? Or do you blame the little

28
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 1: retailer who I bought my coffee from today, who is

29
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,560
Speaker 1: going to have to absorb what is in some cases

30
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,480
Speaker 1: like thousands of dollars? It's a lot. Who do you blame?

31
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 2: And we don't blame one person, and again it sounds

32
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 2: like a cup out or one organization, But we are

33
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,400
Speaker 2: saying that there needs to be regulations, so right now

34
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 2: is guidelines, and so we think that's what's contributing to

35
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,240
Speaker 2: the mess there was the consumer is the horrible experience.

36
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 2: But also I get your point that for small businesses

37
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 2: it's also a mess because they're in carring fees that

38
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,280
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be and they've got no choice but to

39
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 2: pass them on, or if they're not passing them on,

40
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 2: then it means it's costing them more. So what we

41
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,480
Speaker 2: think is a bunch would absolutely be on the table.

42
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,800
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, we really support this further interchange regulation,

43
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 2: which is what the Commerce Commission has just been consulting on.

44
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 2: And what that should mean is that costs for businesses

45
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,280
Speaker 2: come down, so which should cost them much less to

46
00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,400
Speaker 2: expect payments, and that's what interim measure.

47
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,320
Speaker 1: Am I wrong to blame Visa and master Card for this?

48
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,120
Speaker 1: Am I wrong to actually see them as the lead

49
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,399
Speaker 1: culprits because when I read about what happened last year

50
00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 1: around about this time in the US, they reached a

51
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 1: thirty billion dollar settlement over these credit card fees, which

52
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 1: was basically accepting that they were too high. So am

53
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: I wrong blaming them for this?

54
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 2: I think blame needs to be a portion across lots

55
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 2: of different players because.

56
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 1: Right now, tell me who they are, so who What.

57
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 2: We don't understand is where the extra money is going.

58
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 2: So we think that's one question that needs to be

59
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 2: asked and companies yeah, yeah, well yeah, and then are

60
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 2: there some retailers that are taking some cream off the

61
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,399
Speaker 2: top as well? Is it payment service providers? So there's

62
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 2: so many questions, but at the end of the day

63
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,800
Speaker 2: is the it's the consumer that's paying the cost for this.

64
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,399
Speaker 2: It does need to be addressed.

65
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 1: But okay, to get back to my point. Though MasterCard

66
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 1: does have a bloody brass neck, don't they well tya

67
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,919
Speaker 1: going to benefit it's separately they're charging them. I mean,

68
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,280
Speaker 1: how can they think about this, Jessica, How can they

69
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 1: actually say that these charges, these surcharges need to be banned,

70
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: Like the little retailer who's selling you the tiny little

71
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 1: pot part you're buying has to stop the surcharge because

72
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 1: they want to fill their pockets. The old credit card

73
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 1: companies anyway, and never mind, I'm not going to force

74
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 1: you to take my side on this. However, it seems

75
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 1: to me that what the Commerce Commission is proposing is

76
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 1: actually a solution to this, right because not only are

77
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 1: they going to regulate what these fat cats can charge,

78
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,280
Speaker 1: but they then do actually regulate also what the retailers

79
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 1: can charge you.

80
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 2: And I yeah, that's right. So at the moment, the

81
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 2: section that's that's regulated is what the business is paying

82
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 2: you as the contumer pay is what's it's There are

83
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 2: only guidelines, and we think that they're being ignored because

84
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 2: surcharges are supposed to be not excessive. They're supposed to

85
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 2: be visible, and you're supposed to know in advance what

86
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 2: you're going to pay in a lot of the time

87
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 2: what consumers are telling us, and we know we're all

88
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,479
Speaker 2: consumers ourselves that that's not the case. So we absolutely

89
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,280
Speaker 2: support the Commerce Commission bringing those charges down, which should

90
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,880
Speaker 2: mean that if there is an all outbound which we

91
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,120
Speaker 2: think should be on the table, then businesses fees are

92
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,840
Speaker 2: going to be lower. So if those costs are passed

93
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,919
Speaker 2: on in higher costs of service and goods, it should

94
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 2: be less than one percent overall, and we think that's

95
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 2: a much better position than what we're in now. You know,

96
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,520
Speaker 2: for example, the most egregious surcharge we've heard about in

97
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 2: the last few months was twenty five percent Behave. It's

98
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,840
Speaker 2: just got to stop it with a nail stalon somewhere

99
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,640
Speaker 2: twenty five percent nail salon. It's just absolutely shocking too.

100
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,920
Speaker 1: Right, Hey, thank you very much, Jessica. Always appreciate a

101
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 1: JISCA Walker Consumers acting here, research and advocacy for more

102
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 1: From Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks

103
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,720
Speaker 1: it B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

104
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio