1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Big debate coming tonight on the Treaty Principles Build. This 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: is David Seymour's topic, Djuur and he will be taking 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: on the Nazi Tower chief executive Helmet Modlick. They'll go 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: head to head in a public debate. It will take 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: place at eight pm this evening. It's been live streamed 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: on all sorts of different platforms and Helmet Modlick is 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: with us this morning. 8 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 2: Helmet. Some say we shouldn't be. 9 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Debating the treaty. That is a very strong line coming 10 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: from the lights of the party, Maori. Does this mean 11 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: you disagree we do need the debate. 12 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 3: I agree entirely that we should have a debate, which 13 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: is why I've made myself available to participate in it. 14 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 3: What I was discomforted by was the lack of substantive 15 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 3: information and thought exchange. We were only getting curated SoundBite 16 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 3: versions of one position. And so yeah, I'm looking forward 17 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 3: to the debate, welcome it. 18 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: What do you make of Taparty Maori's approach to this, 19 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: which has been to throw words like genocide and white 20 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: supremacist out there. 21 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: What's your take on their stance? 22 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: Well, I can't speak for the party, Maori of course. 23 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 3: But what I do know is that the historical record 24 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 3: of the harm that has occurred in the Maori community 25 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,279 Speaker 3: as a consequence of breaches of they to await tonguey 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: are hard to overstate, and in fact that my memory 27 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 3: shoves me right. I believe the word genocide was originally 28 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 3: used by the white Tonguy tribunal connection with the harm 29 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: that resulted to the Taranaki people as a consequence of breaches. 30 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 3: So I understand the feeling, I understand the language, I 31 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: understand the passion, and there's no avoid at this point 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 3: in our history, though, I think the time for us 33 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 3: is here as for us to exchange ideas about to 34 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 3: go forward. 35 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: Okay, this sounds promising. This sounds like you're going to 36 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: have a robust discussion. Do you you've seen that, You've 37 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: seen that the principles that the government has put forward, 38 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: David Siemas put forward. 39 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: You know the government has the power to govern. 40 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: Respecting the Ewi and hapoo and being equal before the law. 41 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: Is there anything wrong with those? 42 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, okay, you don't want me to give one 43 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: of the game plans for tonight, bud, but just really quickly, 44 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: the government has the right to govern, sees who and 45 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 3: how did they get their right? Well, that's a rather 46 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: fundamental question that will examine tonight. Secondly, the rights that 47 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: accrue to the hapoo of In fact, the bill says 48 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: that they are as outlined in the treaty, but constrained 49 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 3: by whatever the government of the day actually concedes that 50 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 3: they may be. So there's a lot of logical flaws, 51 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 3: even on the question of equality before the law. I'll 52 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: look forward to pointing out tonight how equality before the 53 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 3: law is a fiction today, yesterday, and probably tomorrow. So 54 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 3: there's a lot of logical faus which I look forward 55 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 3: to servicing. And yeah, well that's it. 56 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: How the big one here then, you mentioned it to 57 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: start with that the governor has the right to govern? 58 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: You say, says who, When did that happen? 59 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: It's the fundamental question is whether Maori seated sovereignty, whether 60 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: the crown, whether the government is sovereign in New Zealand. 61 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: They have the right to make laws. You don't think 62 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: they do. 63 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 3: You have hit the nail on the head, Ryan, and 64 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: I look. 65 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: Forward to where does that leave us? 66 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: It leaves us right where we are, Ryan, right where 67 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 3: we are. So the real issue isn't about the technicalities. 68 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 3: The real issue has always is the substance of our 69 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: civil society. Do we actually believe in things like truth 70 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 3: and justice and freedoms and equality before the earth? We do? Then, call, 71 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 3: let's look with crystal clear eyes and what if that 72 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: got us to where we're at. We're in a great place. 73 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 3: This is an awesome place with an awesome group of 74 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: people and democracy call, So let's not ignore that, but 75 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: let's be truthful about what got us here and how 76 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 3: to go forward in the way that Kiwis actually wants. 77 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 3: That's it both, all right? 78 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: Hey, hey, it sounds like it's going to be a 79 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: good debate. Look forward to watching it. Helmet, thanks so 80 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: much for your time. 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