WEBVTT - How do we fix New Zealand's 'broken' energy sector? 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:05.160 Kiyota. 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.360 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.840 daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:20.440 New Zealand's energy sector is broken. That's according to an 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.639 open letter calling for the government to do more to 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:28.760 keep our power prices down. Soaring power costs is always 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.440 a concern, but we now live in a country where 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.960 for some it's a privilege. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.479 To have power. 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.640 We've heard too many stories about businesses closing due to 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.160 rising costs of just keeping the lights on and everyday 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:47.800 kiwis are struggling as well. Tens of thousands of households 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:53.080 are cut off from basic essential services just because they can't. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:54.400 Afford to pay their bills. 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:59.000 So what can we actually do to keep prices down 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.160 over winter? Can we ever get them to stay down permanently? 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.240 Today on the front page, as part of The Herald's 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:10.039 Power to the People campaign, we speak to the manager 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:19.720 of Consumer and Z's Power Switch, Paul fuge. So Consumer 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.160 and Z was part of this open letter calling for 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.440 reforms in the energy sector. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:27.800 Why is the sector broken? 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.160 That's a really big question bottom line, as we haven't 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.960 seen enough investment in generation. We have seen some, but 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.959 not enough and really because there's some structural issues in 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.000 the market that have not been addressed. The current market 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.480 structure basically centivizes just in time investment and being a 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.600 little bit late rather a little bit early. That's because 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.760 scarcity is rewarded in terms of high prices and seat 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.880 of high profits for gent tailors. And one of the 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.560 things we've observed in the market is that the price 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:59.880 of electricity has been decoupled from the cost of actually 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.600 reducing it, So the cost of eltricity, you know, the 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.480 foward prices of electricity are currently well above the long 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.079 run cost of building new power stations and happened since 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.000 twenty nineteen. And that's a good sign that the market 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.000 isn't delivering those sort of outcomes that you'd expect from 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:16.239 a competitive market. 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:20.320 Are Gen Taylor's meant to give a shit about how 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.799 much we pay? Like, legally do they have to? Can 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:28.000 they hold on to their profits and not build new 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.960 generators because they're getting away with us spending loads with. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.280 No requirement on them. It's a free market that they're 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.520 no requirement to build new generation Gen Taylor's, well, you know, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.480 and according to this tent's put in front of them 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:46.680 so they've got a judiciary requirement to deliver maximize shareholder return, right, 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.360 and that's what they're required to do, and so they 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.480 will make those decisions and make those investments according to 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.560 those rules. So what we would say is, if you 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.400 don't like the outcomes, don't blame the players, change the 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.120 rules of the game. If this was a game of 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.120 rugby and you didn't like how the game was being played, 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.280 or change the rules, you wouldn't blame individual players for 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.280 the way they're playing because they're just trying to play 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.240 to the rules as they are required to do. So 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.640 I think it's not helpful to just simply beat up 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.680 retailers or gentailers is as kind of villains. They are 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.680 just doing what they are required to do and according 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:22.520 to what the incent is put in front of them. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.440 So we would say change those incentives. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.920 Right, So what should we change those incentives too? 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.360 So we think there's to be some changes to the market. So, firstly, 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.960 we think markets are good for consumers. A thriving competitive 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:41.200 market will provide consumers with choice, innovation, and help keep 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.200 a lot on prices. So those are outcomes we're not 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.440 seeing from this market. So obviously the market isn't delivering 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.760 according to what it was intended, so we would say 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.280 change the change the rules of that market. So one 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:52.640 of the things we would say is you need to 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.400 levelize the playing field. What we observe is some of 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.680 the independent generators that this is the pure retailers and 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.520 who are quite innovative, have higher customer service levels and 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.560 tend to have lower prices, have really struggled to get 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.720 a foothold in this market. And we've excess in the 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.320 market condensed somewhat more recently. And in fact, if you 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.480 look at the market concentration, the top four generators and 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.599 their subsidiaries over an eighty six percent of the market share, 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.360 and that's the same as it was ten years ago, 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.440 which is quite remarkable, and that's not again, not a 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:27.720 great sign that this is a market that's working well 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.720 for consumers. To mean, these new innovative retailers have really 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.280 struggled to gain a foothold. Even retailers that have been 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.840 really successful overseas like Octopus Energy, have really struggled to 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.480 come into the New Zealand market. And primary it's because 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.520 they're struggling to compete with the gent tailors because they 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.279 can't procure electricity or what they say is on equal 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.080 terms as the people they're competing again, so that's quite 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.520 a major structural flaw in the market. So that's something 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.640 that the government should be looking at with urgency. 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.839 How bad are prices at the moment and how have 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.080 they gotten real bad over the last year. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.000 Yeah, so we've seen a little bit about ten to 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.839 eleven percent increase from the same time last year on 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.880 average across the country. That varies significantly. You know, the 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:12.840 price of eltricity is a funny thing. There's no price 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.040 eltricity in New Zealand. There's literally thousands and thousands of prices. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.599 So but on average across the country we've seen an 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.239 eleven percent increase from last last year. So that's not great. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.000 You know. As a result Alida survey, thirty six percent 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.280 of consumers have lost faith in the outlacity market or 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.880 that it's delivering delivering positive outcomes for them. That's not 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.600 a great a great sign when you know close to 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.520 forty percent of people just don't think it's working. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.080 To know this from me, we can no longer maintain 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.479 regional robustness unless we have affordable energy, not just for 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:51.680 mums and dads, but for employers and employees, I've championed 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.040 this issue. I've endeavored to get out in front of 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.040 this issue because it's haunted key. We sport too long 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:01.600 and we need to put the underlying security, the underlying 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.719 well being of all New Zealanders ahead of the short 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.480 term gent Taylor corporate riddle profits. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:14.000 What can be done to make sure that those smaller 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.000 players can get into the game? And can you explain 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:19.440 it to me as if I am, I don't know, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.600 like a five year old child or something. So Gen 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:27.719 Taylor's are the ones producing and selling, whereas you've got 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.960 other companies who are what trying to get a good 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.240 wholesale price and then sell it onto us. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:38.000 That's correct. So retailers basically procure eltricity on the ectricity market, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.240 and they're sort of basically heating themselves. So they're they're 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.320 basically buying on the wholesale market like other products, and 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.599 intelling on the retail market. So they have to procure 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.560 enough atris in the wholesale market to cover their cover 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.359 they customers needs both now and into the future. The 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.120 problem in New Zealanders, they're buying an electricity from the 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.520 very people they're competing against, okay, and you can imagine 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.039 that the disadvantages that they're in the resks that puts 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.880 you under and also the skull diggory that could go on, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.800 because the temptation for a gent tailor will be to 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.920 sell to its own retail arm at more favorable rates 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.400 or in more favorable conditions than these independents who are 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.600 trying to compete with them. So we make that a 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.680 legal flaw. Well, what would say there is just have 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.760 greater separation between the retail and generation functions so that 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.440 the independence can compete on the same terms as these larger, 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.280 larger retailers. And that's that's the fundamental flaw in thew 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:31.080 in this market. 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.640 Right. So if I was a gent tailor and I 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.720 was creating my energy and then selling it to people, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.480 I can sell it to my mate for two dollars, 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:40.360 but all. 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:41.880 Of these guys over here has to have to pay 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.960 three dollars. Basically they're working off a mates rates system. 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.080 That's the suspicion, and that's what independent retailers say, and 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:53.440 that's you know, there's I'd say, there's some evidence for that. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.040 And so what you what you can do is is 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:01.040 your your retail arm then operate at a loss or 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.600 to break even point, and but you more than make 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.720 up for it on your generation arm. And that's not 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.840 a luxury. That's that's available to independents who just we're 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.640 just living and dying basically on the retail part of it. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.560 And so obviously they can't compete. And it's it's more 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.080 complex because these innovative retailers are sort of looking for 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.680 different types of hedges that they're they're offering more time 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.280 of use products, So it's not just the rates, it's 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.240 also the time of the day that they're trying to buy. 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.840 Buy by elbxiosity as well. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.160 How about a world where we just can we create 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:33.200 more energy? 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:38.040 Well, well that's what's neat fundamentally, what's what's driving you know, 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:42.080 the high energy prices is scarcity. So there's a lack 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.320 of energy and also there's there's the risks to it 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.480 is that there's there's a fear that there will be 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.200 a lack of energy in the future. So New Zealand's 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:54.320 ultracity system is as fantastic thing, highly renewable though, so 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.600 we we really are at the vagaries of weather and 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.880 so when it doesn't rain, don't get enough snow, the 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.640 price of octricity can can get higher because of not 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.600 energy in the system, and so we need to have 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.840 almost like an over capacity to accommodate those dry years. 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.840 And the current sort of system doesn't really allow for 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.000 an over supply of electricity because powerstations are expensive to 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.000 run and you don't want to have a power station 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.160 if you're missed in one sitting sitting there there idle. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.080 So that's a real flaw in the system, is that, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.000 you know, this is just the physical nature of New 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.680 Zealand system doesn't lend itself easily for the current market structure. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.559 And as a result, we've sort of lurched from energy 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.480 crisis to energy crisis. I mean, we've had like, you know, 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.600 three energy crisis since twenty twenty. So it's sort of 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.319 not a great way to run an economy because because 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.520 truly is so essential to not just households, the health 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.280 and well being of households, but also for the functioning 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.360 of the New Zealand economy, right, and that's what this 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.440 is the problem now is prices become become elevated for 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.640 so long that's actually affecting the economy because there's businesses 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.480 now that are sort of curtailing production or shutting down completely. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.360 And that's what's really got the intention of I think of 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.400 this government is it's sort of becoming a risk to 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:12.400 the New Zealand economy. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.160 Now, why hasn't anything been done about this? Is it 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:17.199 just too hard? 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.640 Yeah? I think it's just been that they've kicked for touch. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.800 You know, successive governments you know, have tinkered around the 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.240 edges with this, but no one's been prepared to make 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.960 the consequential reforms or changes that are needed to sort 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.120 of arrest this. So, you know, we've given it a 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.160 good go. It's been twenty five years since we've put 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.400 the retail market in and we've had several crisis in 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.599 that time. The writing's been on the wall for a 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.040 while now that things have gone up a a ry, 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.000 Like I said, since twenty nineteen, the prices have been 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.640 above the cost of production. So, you know, as the 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.760 open that has sort of said the type of tinkering 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.400 is over when consequential reform and change in this market 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.640 to sort of get it working as it was intended 0:10:54.679 --> 0:11:00.320 to be working. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.240 So what can the government do tomorrow to help us 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:07.160 all out it was. 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.920 A few things, like some simple things that would really 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.079 help consumers. I mean, we've talked about the level of 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.680 playing field, but some of the basic things that we 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:16.960 haven't got right in New Zealand is something we've been 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.880 saying for decades basically is just for a start, make 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.719 power bills so people can understand them. It sounds but 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.240 try to say it, but you know, one five people 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.679 don't even bother opening their power bill. People are just 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.360 bamboozled by their power balls. People might be surprised to 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.760 know that US is quite unique and that our powerbles 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.080 a unstandardized at all. What's on a powerbill, what information 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.760 is shown, and how it's shown, it varies between retailers. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.559 Now it's a real flaw because people just can't understand 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.000 their own power bill and own power usage and even 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:48.800 knowing if that's normal and that what that does is 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.320 create vision and epathy and mistrust and people have become 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.960 disengaged from this market. And when you've got a market 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.520 where people disengage from it, it's never going to function properly. 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:02.559 So it's such a simple, easy life cost, non controversial 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.520 thing to do right is just make poweraballs easy to 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.199 understand eltricity is sort of analogous to petrol. So when 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.880 you think about how they show petrol prices, you can 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.720 drive down the road in your car and through through 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.040 a random town, look at the wind screen of your 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.480 car and look at the petrols the silent petrol station, 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.680 and you know that's a good or bad price. But 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:27.840 if you think in the petrol, it's complex, it's dangerous, difficult, supply, complex, 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.280 supply chains, et cetera. So similar to electricity. So how 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:32.439 come they can show the price of petrol in a 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.160 way that everyone can understand it in an instant ultricity 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.000 prices people are just completely bamboozled by it. And also 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.200 access to data, so we invested in using a big 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:45.079 success story in ultricity smart meters over a decade. Now 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.679 you know we're over ninety percent penetration and smart meter 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:52.440 roll out and these offer huge potential for consumers, but 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.840 we've locked that data away and so we run power 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.640 switch for example, So we struggle to help consumers as 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.920 much as as we could if we were able to 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.800 access that data, and other people as well access that data. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.400 So it's a real own goal. The smart mat of 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.120 thing is that we've invested in this this amazing technology, 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.520 but we haven't unlocked the potential benefits to consumers from 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.840 that because we just haven't enabled access to that data 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.120 and that's been an ongoing thing for more than a decade, 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.520 and that's that's a real problem, but also it's a 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.120 real frustration and something that would be that would that 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.880 would really help consumers that it sort of hasn't been 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:31.679 enabled for such a long time. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.199 And I suppose if making bills easier to read, because 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.360 I put my hand up, I'm one of those people 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.640 who go, is, oh, sixty. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.439 Dollars last month, the ninety dollars this month? 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:47.120 Okay, But I suppose if you understood how and why 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.240 it works, you have better options when it comes to 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.080 perhaps switching companies as well. Should people be doing that more? 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:55.040 And should we are? 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:56.160 We not doing it enough? 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.320 Well exactly, And that's that was what would drive change 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:03.160 as well, if I consumers basically started changing on mass, 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.320 and that's what we're trying to get happening with our 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:09.000 Powersweap service. So we've had some success in that. We've 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:14.320 seen massive upswing and site usage over this year. So 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:18.559 in June we saw the largest number of Initiato switches 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.600 ever on the site and it was more than double 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:25.600 the previous highest months, which is astonishing. We've put an 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.120 investment in an AI bill reader now, as I talked 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.560 that before that people find bills confusing, So we've built 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.240 this tool that can read any power bill in New Zealand, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.200 all the different variations, and take that information and feed 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.800 it into our calculator and give people really fast, faster, 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.120 more accurate comparisons that are more compelling. So people are 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.440 up with their bill are twice as likely to change 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.440 providers that those don't. This is the real game changer 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.600 because the issue we had is, like I said, getting 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.920 the data into the model, and it's been difficult because 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.640 a we don't have access to the smartmet of data, 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.640 but b because people can't read their powerble able to 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.520 enter their own data. We can do that for them 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.480 now with the AI bill reader. So this is the 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.400 first the first thing we're doing, and then we're going 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.880 to build some additional tools AI tools basically to help 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.240 people with their power build more. One of the things 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.520 you said is like is my powerball normal? So just 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:19.280 tell people through the AI bill reader, you know, is 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.480 what they're paying sort of normal for their household circumstances. 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.360 Is it more than their neighbors? How much could they 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.440 save if they change that sort of thing? What if 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.440 they change their behavior, what if they change their appliances. 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:31.960 So this is the first step and what could be 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:36.000 quite a revolution in retail. So we're really excited about 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.000 it and what we're finding. People on the site are 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.040 really excited as well because it's been such a high 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.400 uptake of that tool. But in general, people can save 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.640 between four and five hundred by changing provider. Look who 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.560 aren't aware of that? Just how much money they can 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:54.320 save by changing plan or provider a year, That's right, 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.880 So that's a significant part of your bill. That's about 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:00.280 the level at which people will change providers. So we 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.120 have seen people respond to that. We'd like to see more. 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.480 Our companies are making huge profits. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.000 They can reduce their prices. 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.320 Well, so again I ask you, what will you do 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.880 to come hard on these big companies. Well, we'd have 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.240 an electricity market review happening, which samm Brown is kicking off, 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.160 and we'll look into that and we'll monitor that. But 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.320 I just say to you also need those companies to 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.520 be profitable because they have to go make big investments 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:33.400 and actually new renewable energy facilities and production facilities in 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.040 order to be able to make sure that we double 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:36.680 the amount of renewables we're going to get in the 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.960 next few years, as well as we have to work 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.040 really hard to find a new supply of gas and 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.200 make sure that we've got gas in the market too. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.880 A review into the energy sector was announced in November 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:50.680 last year. 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.160 What are we are at an end of July? 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:53.920 Now? 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.040 What do you hope that reveals? 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.320 And are just are we moving quickly enough? 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.720 Here? Know we're not, And hence the open letters that 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.080 we've we've been tinkering for too long. Some of the 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:10.200 stuff we've seen coming out is they're not bad things 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.679 in themselves, but I liken it too. You know, some 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.720 of these the initiatives that are coming out from the 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.960 ultru See Authority, for example, sort of they're not consequential 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.280 enough for the for the for the crisis we find ourselves, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.800 and so I likened it to saying they're consulting on 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.680 you know, the color of the kitchen cabinets when the 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.520 house is on fire. It's just's what it feels like. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.200 So it's nice that they're they're asking the kitchen cabin 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.000 it should be it's not a bad thing, but what 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:38.359 we would say is the house is on fire, you 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.320 should probably be looking at their first. And so some 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.879 of these initiatives around increasing soule of iyeback making retailers 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.359 of the time and use crisis. These are good things. 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.560 There's no doubt that that we wouldn't say they're bad, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.719 but they're not the things that they should be focusing on. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.640 Because we've got people who are going cold, they're turning 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.480 off the water cylinders, you know, you know, living seeing 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:03.320 people say then your homes because it's too expensive. You 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.200 know that that's that's that's the real crisis. Rather than 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.640 sort of rewarding people who are fortunate enough to bet, 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.639 you know, for flip solar systems among those people, you know, 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:14.880 helping them shouldn't be a priority. 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:20.400 Thanks for joining us, Paul, No problem. 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.679 That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.640 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.720 at enzherld dot co dot MZ. The Front Page is 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.520 produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:36.399 our editor. 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:38.439 I'm Chelsea Daniels. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.040 Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.720 get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.240 behind the headlines.