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Speaker 1: Nurses at age care facilities going back to the old

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Speaker 1: school paper based prescriptions for medicines after this latest data

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Speaker 1: breach medi map it's used by sixty percent of care

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Speaker 1: facilities that was hacked. Patients details would change some from

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Speaker 1: a live to dead for goodness sakes, and this is

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Speaker 1: only just after the Manage My Health ransom hack. Rob Campbell,

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Speaker 1: former health enz share with me this morning, Rob, Good morning,

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Speaker 1: Good morning. Right. A general question for you, do you

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Speaker 1: trust after all of these hacks? Do you trust the

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Speaker 1: data with the health agencies?

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Speaker 2: Not completely? But that's more I think caution and wisdom

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Speaker 2: than just risky behavior. People don't have a lot of

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Speaker 2: choice about this, and you know there are lots of

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Speaker 2: points of vulnerability in the data systems in the health sector.

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Speaker 2: But no, I don't think there's a cause to immediately

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Speaker 2: distrust all the data.

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Speaker 1: Is there a difference between the private operators who seem

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Speaker 1: to be getting and the public? When you help New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: did they have more robust systems?

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Speaker 2: Some were, some weren't. There were issues. It's like a

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Speaker 2: lot of things in our society. This has been known

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Speaker 2: about for some time. The vulnerabilities that are not new.

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Speaker 2: The warnings have been issued. Some people have responded to

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Speaker 2: the warnings, some people haven't. Some have responded adequately, some haven't.

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Speaker 2: We're finding some points of vulnerability now in the health

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Speaker 2: system that are very concerning, but should indeed have been

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Speaker 2: addressed much earlier, because, as I say, the knowledge that

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Speaker 2: we had vulnerabilities is not new.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think they haven't been fixed?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's like again a lot of other

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Speaker 2: vulnerabilities in our society. It's expensive, it can be complex,

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Speaker 2: it's not headline grabbing stuff. So it's the sort of

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Speaker 2: thing that people do put off, and there is no

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Speaker 2: absolute data security assurance that you can give, so it's

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Speaker 2: a matter of constant vigilance. It's a matter of cost.

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Speaker 2: And you know, people do make trade in these things,

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Speaker 2: particularly systems and operators that are under pressure do make tradeoffs,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes those trade offs payoffs. Sometimes they don't, and

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Speaker 2: we're finding too many, certainly in the health system that don't.

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Speaker 2: So they are vulnerabilities at the point of the individual user,

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Speaker 2: the individual company or business that they're using in, but

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Speaker 2: across the health sector as a whole, I think there

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Speaker 2: are issues about governance from both the Ministry of Health

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Speaker 2: and Health New Zealand as to what level of attention

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Speaker 2: is required of people who are spending public funds or

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Speaker 2: providing public services, even if they may be private operators.

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Speaker 1: Rob appreciate that. Thank you, Rob Campbell, former health ended

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