WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast #285 - May 21st 2025 - Bryan Leyland & J. R. Bruning 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:11.973 You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B. 0:00:12.373 --> 0:00:16.173 Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.693 --> 0:00:19.733 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:19.773 --> 0:00:24.813 the information, all the debates of theis now the Leyton 0:00:24.933 --> 0:00:27.653 Smith Podcast powered by news talks it B. 0:00:28.053 --> 0:00:30.973 Welcome to podcasts two eighty five for May twenty one, 0:00:31.053 --> 0:00:34.413 twenty twenty four. And let's start with a warning. This 0:00:34.453 --> 0:00:37.533 is a lengthy podcast, but it could have been longer. 0:00:37.773 --> 0:00:42.573 Exercising discipline is sometimes difficult. It's a double interview session 0:00:42.693 --> 0:00:46.453 starting with an update on New Zealand power supply by 0:00:46.533 --> 0:00:49.613 power systems engineer Brian Leyland, who has been on the 0:00:49.613 --> 0:00:53.453 podcast on well more than one occasion. Eighteen months ago, 0:00:53.653 --> 0:00:57.013 he wrote in the New Zealand Herald, virtually every aspect 0:00:57.013 --> 0:01:00.173 of our power system is a cause for concern. Still is, 0:01:00.533 --> 0:01:04.733 and as before, considering the recent discovery that Chinese solar 0:01:04.773 --> 0:01:09.213 farms have built in kill switches accessible to theies who 0:01:09.253 --> 0:01:11.533 could switch off all the farms that they have supplied. 0:01:12.173 --> 0:01:15.573 That's about fifty percent worldwide. Now, to suggest that we 0:01:15.613 --> 0:01:19.573 are confronted with a serious issue is hardly debatable. What 0:01:19.733 --> 0:01:23.213 is debatable is whether it's being handled competently and Brian 0:01:23.253 --> 0:01:25.613 will take it from there. Then we have the suggestion 0:01:25.773 --> 0:01:29.653 that the New Zealand public is growing increasingly skeptical about 0:01:29.653 --> 0:01:34.053 the capacity for democratic institutions to put our best interests 0:01:34.053 --> 0:01:37.693 at heart. Conventions and processes are in place to ensure 0:01:37.733 --> 0:01:43.053 that these institutions are transparent and accountable. Public good policy 0:01:43.173 --> 0:01:47.613 requires that the information underpinning decision making is of the 0:01:47.613 --> 0:01:51.973 best possible standard. But what if those processes are bypassed. 0:01:52.493 --> 0:01:56.413 New Zealand government agency for Economic Growth, the Ministry for Business, 0:01:56.413 --> 0:02:02.253 Innovation and Employment otherwise known as MB is so entranced 0:02:02.253 --> 0:02:07.093 by the promise of biotechnology that has, to all appearances 0:02:07.253 --> 0:02:12.693 short circuited the democratic process and good regulatory practice. This 0:02:12.733 --> 0:02:15.053 has become a case study that may not only reflect 0:02:15.133 --> 0:02:18.973 New Zealand's woes, but mirror the global crises in policy 0:02:19.053 --> 0:02:23.493 and science across the Western world. And of course this discussion, 0:02:23.853 --> 0:02:27.253 and of course this discussion is related to the gene 0:02:27.293 --> 0:02:31.653 Technology Bill, which is a subject to some heated debate 0:02:31.693 --> 0:02:35.613 at this point of time. Now, the words that I've 0:02:35.653 --> 0:02:39.533 been quoting are by j. R. Brunning or Jody Running, 0:02:39.933 --> 0:02:44.773 who is a sociologist and a Trustee of Physicians and 0:02:44.853 --> 0:02:49.453 Scientists for Global Responsibility. She has been on the podcast 0:02:49.693 --> 0:02:54.693 on one occasion, I think from memory, and she's actually 0:02:54.773 --> 0:02:57.173 very thorough. But the other thing to add at this 0:02:57.213 --> 0:03:01.133 point is that the information in this report compelled us, 0:03:01.213 --> 0:03:05.173 I quote compelled us to request that the Ombudsman undertake 0:03:05.173 --> 0:03:08.493 a formal inquiry. So if by chance you have to 0:03:08.493 --> 0:03:11.893 be interested in what goes on well shall we say, 0:03:12.293 --> 0:03:17.133 behind the scenes, then this is a very very interesting discussion. 0:03:17.573 --> 0:03:30.253 But up in a moment. Brian Layland Layton Smith. Now 0:03:30.253 --> 0:03:32.973 the name Brian Leland is familiar to most of you, 0:03:33.053 --> 0:03:36.413 I'm sure, but there are always some who were fresh 0:03:36.413 --> 0:03:39.253 on the scene or who haven't heard of somebody I'm 0:03:39.293 --> 0:03:41.533 talking with. So let me give you a little of 0:03:41.573 --> 0:03:44.293 his background, well much of it, actually, we'll give him. 0:03:44.613 --> 0:03:47.133 We'll give him the full course. He is a New 0:03:47.213 --> 0:03:51.613 Zealander based consulting engineer with experience in all aspects of 0:03:51.653 --> 0:03:55.413 the power industry. His main interest is in hydro power. 0:03:55.453 --> 0:03:59.653 He has experience in wind, solar, tidal and wave power. 0:04:00.173 --> 0:04:04.813 He also has worked on substations and transmission lines on diesel, 0:04:05.173 --> 0:04:09.373 steam and gas turbine stations and he had he's had 0:04:09.413 --> 0:04:13.213 some involvement in nuclear power. I'm particularly interested in that. Actually, 0:04:13.933 --> 0:04:19.813 his academic qualifications include do academic qualifications count for much anymore? Well, 0:04:19.813 --> 0:04:23.173 they do for some people anyway, include a master's degree 0:04:23.213 --> 0:04:28.653 in Power system design and a Distinguished Fellow of Engineering 0:04:28.693 --> 0:04:32.653 New Zealand, a Fellow at the Institution of Mechanical Engineers, 0:04:33.173 --> 0:04:37.893 and a retired Fellow of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. 0:04:38.493 --> 0:04:41.453 He's also acted as a consultant on many overseas projects 0:04:41.493 --> 0:04:45.293 in developing countries. This has included work for the World Bank, 0:04:45.933 --> 0:04:49.933 the Asian Development Bank, and as an independent advisor on 0:04:50.053 --> 0:04:57.173 dam projects in India, Pakistan, West Africa and Afghanistan. I'd 0:04:57.213 --> 0:05:00.973 say that that qualifies him to make as much comments, 0:05:01.013 --> 0:05:03.933 if not more than most people in this country involved 0:05:03.933 --> 0:05:09.093 in the electricity industry. Brian, did I missety thing up now? 0:05:09.293 --> 0:05:12.493 That was? You will almost make me feel embarrassed? Well, 0:05:12.533 --> 0:05:16.893 in fact you do. Well, there's no need for it. 0:05:16.573 --> 0:05:21.013 What now? Quote you something from about a year ago, 0:05:22.933 --> 0:05:25.773 maybe ten months and it's from the New Zealand Herald 0:05:26.613 --> 0:05:31.933 and it's written by Samantha g of Radio New Zealand. 0:05:32.893 --> 0:05:34.813 And there's really only one line. I want to read 0:05:36.093 --> 0:05:41.653 New Zealand is heading toward an electricity supply crisis. Now 0:05:41.693 --> 0:05:44.933 you were awarding of that in the middle of last year. 0:05:44.933 --> 0:05:47.653 We spoke about it. But that's the middle of last year. 0:05:47.693 --> 0:05:50.333 We're now a good ten months down the track. What 0:05:50.493 --> 0:05:51.373 might have changed? 0:05:52.453 --> 0:05:56.533 Okay, what has changed is the availability of gas. We 0:05:56.613 --> 0:05:59.053 now know that we've got less gas, and we assumed 0:05:59.053 --> 0:06:03.653 a year ago. We now know also that the combined 0:06:03.653 --> 0:06:06.853 cycle station in Taranake, which is throughout articular meguans, will 0:06:06.893 --> 0:06:09.853 be retired pretty soon. So we've got less gas and 0:06:09.933 --> 0:06:14.893 less capability of burning it. And the latest security of 0:06:15.013 --> 0:06:19.493 supply assessment by Transpower, the draft one says that next 0:06:19.573 --> 0:06:21.613 year is going to be worse than this year, and 0:06:21.653 --> 0:06:24.333 the year after it will be worse still. Now, who 0:06:24.333 --> 0:06:28.053 says that Transpower the system operator? 0:06:28.213 --> 0:06:29.613 And how would Transpower know? 0:06:30.973 --> 0:06:33.773 Well, they are the ones who are in theory. The 0:06:33.773 --> 0:06:35.453 other ones who are trying to keep the lights on. 0:06:36.453 --> 0:06:39.093 But they have no power to build new stations or 0:06:39.293 --> 0:06:41.293 influence to building a new stations. 0:06:41.613 --> 0:06:46.013 But are they assuming that there will be weather that 0:06:46.573 --> 0:06:47.253 doesn't work? 0:06:49.893 --> 0:06:52.653 Yeah, they always assume that there's a possibility of but 0:06:52.773 --> 0:06:56.213 dry year. But it's getting to the stage now where 0:06:56.253 --> 0:06:59.453 even in a normal year there may have to be 0:06:59.973 --> 0:07:02.773 blackouts during peak DeMint periods because we just haven't got 0:07:02.893 --> 0:07:05.333 enough capacity to keep the lights on, but they would 0:07:05.333 --> 0:07:09.933 be fairly short two or three hours and intermittent. But 0:07:10.013 --> 0:07:12.413 a dry year, which is what we've just been through 0:07:12.453 --> 0:07:14.893 and had last year, is much different and you need 0:07:15.773 --> 0:07:18.733 massive rotating blackouts to cope with the fact that you 0:07:18.813 --> 0:07:19.853 haven't gotten that energy. 0:07:20.133 --> 0:07:25.333 You know, there's something about an assumption that sits uncomfortably 0:07:25.373 --> 0:07:29.453 with me. They assume that this will be the case, 0:07:30.133 --> 0:07:33.013 that doesn't plan for if their assumption is wrong. 0:07:34.493 --> 0:07:38.373 They've got a reasonable handle on contingencies and they've factored 0:07:38.373 --> 0:07:42.733 the men, but I think they've been on the generous side. 0:07:42.853 --> 0:07:48.933 Was the contingencies, I would be more pessimistic than they've been. 0:07:49.453 --> 0:07:51.893 In your experience, and you do a bit of public speaking, etc. 0:07:52.933 --> 0:07:59.533 Is the New Zealand population across the board aware of 0:07:59.853 --> 0:08:04.533 how close we are to losing control? No, not at all. 0:08:04.973 --> 0:08:09.333 And before two thousand and three, if we got short 0:08:09.373 --> 0:08:12.413 of power, the first thing they did was ask the 0:08:12.453 --> 0:08:15.533 public to save power, turn off flights, don't do so 0:08:15.613 --> 0:08:18.853 much hot water and all that sort of thing, and 0:08:19.173 --> 0:08:21.893 that used to ease the situation by quite a bit. 0:08:21.933 --> 0:08:25.653 It was got a significant reponse. After two thousand and 0:08:25.733 --> 0:08:30.133 three they decided that they would shut down industry and 0:08:30.173 --> 0:08:34.013 commerce before they asked people to save electricity. So last 0:08:34.053 --> 0:08:36.573 year we shut down Method X and paid a lot 0:08:36.613 --> 0:08:39.173 for the gas, which is it turned out we virtually 0:08:39.213 --> 0:08:43.133 did not need, and we reduced output on the smelter, 0:08:43.213 --> 0:08:46.013 which also cost quite a lot. And this year we've 0:08:46.013 --> 0:08:50.213 done the same. For those who don't know, and they 0:08:50.253 --> 0:08:53.213 claim that we're we're getting through it all right, when 0:08:53.253 --> 0:08:56.573 the real story is we've had shutdowns, just that the 0:08:56.653 --> 0:08:58.293 public didn't see them. 0:08:58.653 --> 0:09:01.733 For those unfamiliar, what is METHODEX or who? 0:09:02.773 --> 0:09:05.293 Method X is the gas? What used to be the 0:09:05.333 --> 0:09:08.293 gas the gasoline plant, but now it makes Method X 0:09:08.413 --> 0:09:14.213 methanol instead of gasoline. And it's been a steady taker 0:09:14.373 --> 0:09:18.173 of gas over the years and provided the steady load 0:09:18.253 --> 0:09:21.933 for the gas fields which make most of their money 0:09:21.973 --> 0:09:24.653 out of the liquids associated liquids, so it needs a 0:09:24.653 --> 0:09:25.453 steady demand. 0:09:25.573 --> 0:09:26.693 So it's done a good job. 0:09:27.453 --> 0:09:31.693 But we shouldn't be shutting it down just because we've 0:09:31.773 --> 0:09:34.333 run out of We haven't stored enough. 0:09:34.133 --> 0:09:37.253 Gas, so why are we shutting it down? 0:09:38.253 --> 0:09:40.253 We're starting it down so the gas can be burned 0:09:40.293 --> 0:09:43.133 in the gas turbine stations to keep the lights on. 0:09:44.213 --> 0:09:48.893 And how long would that last? I think it's several months. 0:09:49.013 --> 0:09:52.533 We've got we've shut shutting methodics down for several months, 0:09:52.573 --> 0:09:54.973 and we've paid for the gas. And as things are 0:09:54.973 --> 0:09:58.933 looking at the moment, we could give it all back tomorrow. 0:10:00.173 --> 0:10:01.933 But we've paid for it and we're stuck with it. 0:10:03.493 --> 0:10:04.573 And that's not a good thing. 0:10:05.493 --> 0:10:08.773 Well, it puts out the price of power. And you 0:10:08.813 --> 0:10:12.653 can remember the way the powers market works, the most 0:10:12.693 --> 0:10:15.853 expensive generator sets the planes for all of them. So 0:10:15.973 --> 0:10:19.253 when gas is scarce, my little hydro scheme is making 0:10:19.293 --> 0:10:23.533 heaps of money because it's I get the high price 0:10:23.573 --> 0:10:24.813 of the gas thing. 0:10:25.133 --> 0:10:29.813 It's crazy, all right. So let's let's just go back 0:10:29.853 --> 0:10:35.293 in history a little bit, because we've discussed it before, 0:10:35.613 --> 0:10:39.893 but it's always I think necessary to update and remind. 0:10:40.573 --> 0:10:46.693 But when did the when did the problem you've mentioned 0:10:46.733 --> 0:10:49.613 two thousand and three? But when did the problem really 0:10:49.813 --> 0:10:53.373 become the issue that it is now, or at least 0:10:53.413 --> 0:10:54.293 the lead into it. 0:10:55.573 --> 0:11:01.813 Probably when we signed the Paris Agreement and decided that 0:11:02.293 --> 0:11:06.253 coal and gas were bad things and that wind and 0:11:06.293 --> 0:11:09.453 solar were good things, and forgot about the need to 0:11:09.493 --> 0:11:11.373 keep the lights on when the wind's not blowing and 0:11:11.413 --> 0:11:12.413 the sun's not shining. 0:11:15.053 --> 0:11:16.173 Who was in government then? 0:11:17.093 --> 0:11:20.253 It was Key that signed the Paris Agreement and it 0:11:20.333 --> 0:11:22.893 was just center the shutdown gas exploration. 0:11:24.653 --> 0:11:30.253 Do you think that John Key would sign it today? 0:11:30.453 --> 0:11:34.453 I have no idea it had to be, but anyone 0:11:34.493 --> 0:11:37.133 would have to be pretty stupid. I mean, the whole 0:11:37.453 --> 0:11:43.573 agreement internationally is falling to pieces, and seventeen out of 0:11:43.613 --> 0:11:45.813 the two hundred odd people that have signed up to 0:11:45.853 --> 0:11:48.773 it or the countries have signed up to it, have 0:11:48.893 --> 0:11:52.693 given returns this year. Fourteen of them are not meeting 0:11:52.693 --> 0:11:57.373 their promises with one of them, but the other nearly 0:11:57.413 --> 0:12:02.173 two hundred, I've forgotten about it. The whole things are 0:12:02.893 --> 0:12:07.733 a massive nothing. Well it always was, it always was, 0:12:07.773 --> 0:12:10.333 but it's billions of dollars a year. 0:12:10.973 --> 0:12:12.093 Can you put a figure on that. 0:12:15.413 --> 0:12:19.933 According to some reports I've seen, the cost of buying 0:12:20.093 --> 0:12:23.173 carbon credits, which apparently we will soon have to do, 0:12:23.933 --> 0:12:27.173 could be ten billion dollars between now and twenty thirty. 0:12:28.133 --> 0:12:30.813 So that's a couple of billion dollars a year. Then 0:12:31.013 --> 0:12:33.133 there's the fact that it's jacked up the power price, 0:12:33.373 --> 0:12:36.773 probably by three or four cents, So everybody's paying three 0:12:36.853 --> 0:12:39.573 or four cents more for power than they otherwise would. 0:12:40.493 --> 0:12:43.733 Then you've got the effect that petrol and diesel and 0:12:43.773 --> 0:12:46.973 all that are also more expensive because of carbon tax. 0:12:47.733 --> 0:12:51.293 So there's that. It's an endless list. Almost everything you 0:12:51.293 --> 0:13:00.213 can think about is affected by the net zero belief. 0:13:02.253 --> 0:13:06.373 All right, So let's assume that you have been appointed 0:13:06.493 --> 0:13:11.013 as the lord of the the realm of power supply? 0:13:12.333 --> 0:13:14.813 What would you do? But would I do? First? 0:13:15.173 --> 0:13:21.013 Is forget about the net zero and also about the 0:13:21.133 --> 0:13:25.333 rumor that man made greenhouse gases caused dangerous global warming. 0:13:26.173 --> 0:13:27.893 And if I could do both of those things, I 0:13:27.933 --> 0:13:32.533 would be searching for gas high speed and burning coal 0:13:32.613 --> 0:13:36.053 and gas and developing geothermal as fast as I could, 0:13:36.173 --> 0:13:40.093 which is happening now, and maybe build some more hydro 0:13:40.173 --> 0:13:44.253 schemes if the greenies would let me the other alternatives. 0:13:45.333 --> 0:13:49.013 Hold it, hold it, Remember where you were going with that. 0:13:49.413 --> 0:13:53.253 But if the greenies would let you, what would what 0:13:53.333 --> 0:13:56.893 would what would be required to put them out of action? 0:13:56.973 --> 0:14:03.853 As far as that's concerned. A government was determination. Can 0:14:03.853 --> 0:14:07.093 you see any on the horizon? No, I thought I'd ask. 0:14:09.133 --> 0:14:13.533 David Seymour, but I'm not quite sure what he believes anyway. 0:14:14.173 --> 0:14:18.533 So where are you going before I interrupted you? 0:14:18.813 --> 0:14:21.413 Okay, if we still wanted to believe in man made 0:14:21.453 --> 0:14:23.733 global warming, I would go nuclear. 0:14:24.813 --> 0:14:27.773 And that's long term worldwide. 0:14:28.173 --> 0:14:31.733 Nuclear is the obvious way to generate all the energy 0:14:31.773 --> 0:14:37.213 we need safely and cheaply. That's it. It'll do it, 0:14:37.613 --> 0:14:38.653 and it'll do it safely. 0:14:39.613 --> 0:14:43.133 Here's the interesting thing, Well, it's only one interesting thing. 0:14:43.893 --> 0:14:45.933 The Australians have just had an election. Of course, the 0:14:45.933 --> 0:14:49.813 Greens got dumped on but they still are in a 0:14:49.853 --> 0:14:56.613 position of power slash influence as far as this is concerned, 0:14:57.053 --> 0:15:01.773 and the majority of Australians it appears, certainly a large 0:15:01.893 --> 0:15:06.933 number are still opposed to nuclear power, something I cannot 0:15:06.973 --> 0:15:10.813 work out with that con tree, you can, I. 0:15:10.933 --> 0:15:12.813 But then the other thing I can't work out is 0:15:12.813 --> 0:15:16.093 why they export millions of tons of coal millions and 0:15:16.133 --> 0:15:21.373 millions and won't burn it, and why they export vast 0:15:21.493 --> 0:15:24.653 qualities of gas from the North Fork Shelf and won't 0:15:24.693 --> 0:15:28.653 open up gas wells in the southeast equally stupid. 0:15:28.373 --> 0:15:32.813 Well, has this has something to do with the structure 0:15:32.853 --> 0:15:40.293 of the Australian political scene. Yeah, I wonder, No, I 0:15:40.333 --> 0:15:42.733 don't wonder, you can't. I was going to say, I 0:15:42.773 --> 0:15:44.413 wonder what it would be like in this country if 0:15:44.413 --> 0:15:49.333 we divided ourselves up into four quarters, for instance, and 0:15:49.333 --> 0:15:55.973 and elected our own local as in state politicians. 0:15:57.093 --> 0:15:59.893 Well, seeing we've got into the elected power system from 0:15:59.933 --> 0:16:03.573 the PowerPoint of view, to be chaos. If it's chaos 0:16:03.613 --> 0:16:06.653 already even worse than it is now that. 0:16:07.373 --> 0:16:09.413 All right, we'll past, will pass on that. 0:16:10.893 --> 0:16:11.093 Now. 0:16:13.093 --> 0:16:20.773 James Kilty of Transpower was on radio this morning, the 0:16:20.853 --> 0:16:26.213 day we speak, which is Tuesday. What did he have 0:16:26.333 --> 0:16:27.333 to say? 0:16:28.133 --> 0:16:31.173 Well, basically, he said that we are short of power 0:16:32.133 --> 0:16:35.013 and the situation is worse than it was last year. 0:16:36.733 --> 0:16:39.053 But he seems to believe that lots and lots of 0:16:39.093 --> 0:16:43.133 wind and solar and batteries will save the situation. And 0:16:43.253 --> 0:16:47.013 that's simply not true. And the reason is that batteries 0:16:47.453 --> 0:16:53.253 are impossibly expensive when you when you need to make 0:16:53.333 --> 0:16:55.293 up for the fact that the wind hasn't blown for 0:16:55.293 --> 0:16:58.533 the last five days and two thousand mega wats of 0:16:58.573 --> 0:17:04.893 wind are not there, saving extoring enough electricity to keep 0:17:04.933 --> 0:17:07.533 us to keep the lights on during that period is 0:17:07.533 --> 0:17:08.933 impossibly expensive. 0:17:10.853 --> 0:17:14.893 Let's forget for the moment. Let's forget the impossible and 0:17:15.053 --> 0:17:19.973 an expensive part. How difficult would it be impossible? 0:17:20.853 --> 0:17:23.093 Same thing if everybody does it in the world, and 0:17:23.173 --> 0:17:25.293 there's no point in us doing it, and that everybody else does. 0:17:26.453 --> 0:17:30.613 There's not enough rare earth and various other critical materials 0:17:30.933 --> 0:17:35.253 available in the time frame to do the job. And 0:17:35.333 --> 0:17:37.933 it means opening minds at a rapid rate, which you 0:17:37.973 --> 0:17:44.053 can't do. And it's rare which come out mostly come 0:17:44.093 --> 0:17:47.533 out of China. The Americans have got plenty of them, 0:17:47.653 --> 0:17:51.853 but they're Australians, so are the Australians. But their whole 0:17:51.893 --> 0:17:55.253 approvals system means it takes about six or eight years 0:17:55.293 --> 0:17:56.253 to open a new mind. 0:17:57.733 --> 0:17:58.693 So you just can't do it. 0:17:58.733 --> 0:18:01.653 Then we haven't got all the engineers needed to do 0:18:01.773 --> 0:18:05.813 all the reinforcement and build all these new stations. It's 0:18:05.893 --> 0:18:09.773 just simply is impossible from every point of view. 0:18:10.493 --> 0:18:17.133 Okay, let me extract from you then that's an appropriate 0:18:17.173 --> 0:18:21.653 word actually considering the question what these what these rare 0:18:21.693 --> 0:18:27.453 earths actually provide, it's all very well, all very well 0:18:27.493 --> 0:18:30.013 to throw around I don't mean you, but generally throw 0:18:30.053 --> 0:18:33.013 around you know, rare earth, rare earths, But what are 0:18:33.053 --> 0:18:37.173 they especial, especially in relationship to what we're talking about. 0:18:37.893 --> 0:18:42.413 Yeah, okay, apparently they're not actually all that rare, but 0:18:42.813 --> 0:18:47.333 they're an odd thing. But for instance, all the new 0:18:48.453 --> 0:18:52.973 wind turbine generators and other things rely on high strength 0:18:53.453 --> 0:18:59.533 permanent magnets, which use a product called neodymium, which provides 0:18:59.693 --> 0:19:01.613 very strong magnets. I've got one on my desk and 0:19:01.653 --> 0:19:07.533 it's extremely strong, and all the wind wind turbine generators 0:19:07.693 --> 0:19:11.733 use them. And yet thousands and thousands of tons. Then 0:19:11.773 --> 0:19:15.573 another thing that we'd be short of is copper, because 0:19:15.573 --> 0:19:17.493 you need lots of copper for the windings of the 0:19:17.573 --> 0:19:20.013 generators and for the cables that connect it all together. 0:19:20.693 --> 0:19:24.053 We can't open copper mines fast enough, and I mean 0:19:24.053 --> 0:19:27.653 we'd double or treble the current rate of mining, and 0:19:27.693 --> 0:19:30.653 you probably wouldn't still wouldn't be enough. 0:19:31.093 --> 0:19:32.253 Do we have copper here? 0:19:33.453 --> 0:19:33.613 No? 0:19:34.053 --> 0:19:37.573 I didn't think so. No, We've probably got rares somewhere. 0:19:37.653 --> 0:19:41.413 But we do have gold. We do have gold, yes, 0:19:41.453 --> 0:19:45.613 so we can buy the copper. Yeah. All right. Now, 0:19:46.053 --> 0:19:49.853 with regard to James Kilty, what else did he have 0:19:49.933 --> 0:19:57.213 to say, particularly not only about nuclear. 0:19:58.773 --> 0:20:03.693 He didn't mention nuclear, He didn't mention further gas exploration, 0:20:03.853 --> 0:20:07.573 which we desperately need because it's the only short term 0:20:07.653 --> 0:20:11.053 thing can dig us out of trouble. And yet he 0:20:11.093 --> 0:20:15.133 didn't mention it. It's very strange. I would have thought 0:20:15.173 --> 0:20:17.613 that he would be hammering on the government store for 0:20:17.733 --> 0:20:22.933 more gas, and he just doesn't seem to understand the 0:20:22.973 --> 0:20:26.773 storage problem and the fact that when the wind doesn't 0:20:26.773 --> 0:20:29.653 blow and the sun doesn't shine, something's got to keep 0:20:29.653 --> 0:20:34.053 the lights on. But there's also another problem because when 0:20:34.053 --> 0:20:37.173 the wind is blowing and when the sun does shine, 0:20:37.653 --> 0:20:40.493 we'll have it. We'll be a wash with electricity if 0:20:40.533 --> 0:20:42.493 there're the ones that are all built, go ahead, three 0:20:42.533 --> 0:20:45.893 thousand odd megawats and so the price will crash to 0:20:45.973 --> 0:20:49.173 nothing on the market. So all these wind farms and 0:20:49.213 --> 0:20:54.373 solar farms won't be earning anything when they're generating the most. 0:20:54.453 --> 0:20:58.093 Well, your average punter might into fear here and say 0:20:58.653 --> 0:21:02.613 what he means, it crashed to nothing. It's their product. 0:21:03.573 --> 0:21:08.213 They can set the price, Yeah, but it's a surface 0:21:08.373 --> 0:21:09.053 of it. They can't. 0:21:09.733 --> 0:21:14.173 Why not, Well, all they can do is refuse to generate, 0:21:15.973 --> 0:21:17.773 and then the price goes up, and then I'm getting 0:21:17.773 --> 0:21:23.853 any of it either. Yeah, Otherwise they all form a 0:21:23.933 --> 0:21:26.933 consortium and agree just how much to generate to keep 0:21:26.973 --> 0:21:29.493 the price at the at the level they would like 0:21:29.533 --> 0:21:32.333 it to be. A see, there is which is which 0:21:32.413 --> 0:21:34.613 is not very good from a novely point of view. 0:21:35.453 --> 0:21:37.773 There it's a sin in a way. That's what the 0:21:37.813 --> 0:21:42.373 generators are doing. Now, there is something that intrigues me 0:21:42.693 --> 0:21:46.013 at the moment across across a much bigger board than 0:21:46.013 --> 0:21:49.653 we're discussing. But the principle, the principle is the same. 0:21:51.533 --> 0:21:56.613 Why is it that so many countries are in trouble 0:21:57.893 --> 0:22:02.533 because of what has not gone before and has now 0:22:02.573 --> 0:22:07.733 caught up with us? What's where? Where? And how did 0:22:07.773 --> 0:22:13.573 it become a major issue that countries like us ended 0:22:13.653 --> 0:22:14.373 up here. 0:22:15.453 --> 0:22:19.493 Okay, for some reason or other and with the connivance 0:22:19.493 --> 0:22:22.093 of a lot of people, not necessarily all getting together 0:22:23.453 --> 0:22:26.133 and plotting against it. But it suits a whole lot 0:22:26.133 --> 0:22:31.333 of people to tell everybody that the wills and in 0:22:31.373 --> 0:22:35.053 the edge of disaster from global warning, it's a terrible 0:22:35.133 --> 0:22:39.253 situation and only I can save you, and you've got 0:22:39.253 --> 0:22:44.813 to do lots of penance, which is the salvation circus 0:22:44.893 --> 0:22:47.773 type argument. The world is going to come to an end. 0:22:47.973 --> 0:22:50.453 Come to me and give me lots of money and women. 0:22:51.293 --> 0:22:54.413 And so they've played on that. Nothing like a good 0:22:54.493 --> 0:23:00.453 crisis to get political support, and that's where it started. 0:23:00.533 --> 0:23:04.053 But there's a whole lot of outfits in the world, 0:23:04.693 --> 0:23:07.573 and a whole lot of so called scientists climate scientists 0:23:08.373 --> 0:23:12.573 who make their living depends on keeping this whole scam 0:23:12.573 --> 0:23:17.653 going and send there's the renewable energy people, the wind 0:23:17.653 --> 0:23:22.133 and solar overseas who get heavily subsidized, and they are 0:23:22.253 --> 0:23:25.533 very interested in keeping this game going and increasing the subsidies. 0:23:26.813 --> 0:23:31.613 And the subsidies for offshore wind are horrenders about forty 0:23:31.773 --> 0:23:38.013 cents a killing with out subsidy. It's crazy. And there's 0:23:38.013 --> 0:23:40.333 a bigger subsidy for offshore wind than there is for 0:23:40.373 --> 0:23:43.413 onshore wind. They're both the same product. Why do you 0:23:43.453 --> 0:23:44.493 pay more for one. 0:23:44.333 --> 0:23:44.773 Than the other? 0:23:46.133 --> 0:23:48.293 Why do you pay more than the market price, which 0:23:48.333 --> 0:23:50.693 is coal fired generation or nuclear? 0:23:51.853 --> 0:23:56.813 Are you familiar with the name David Leggetts vaguely Director 0:23:56.853 --> 0:24:00.773 of Research and Education for the Cornwall Alliance for the 0:24:00.773 --> 0:24:05.013 Stewardship of Creation. He's a retired professor of climatology at 0:24:05.053 --> 0:24:09.413 the University of Delaware and he's involved with the various organizations. 0:24:09.493 --> 0:24:13.653 I read this, I read this this morning. Over the years, 0:24:13.813 --> 0:24:17.213 even before I joined the Cordwell Alliance, I received numerous 0:24:17.213 --> 0:24:20.693 complaints from people sending me emails who I believe are 0:24:20.773 --> 0:24:24.973 well meaning that take issue that take issue with my 0:24:25.053 --> 0:24:28.893 position on carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas, as a pollutant, 0:24:29.373 --> 0:24:32.493 and as the single most existential threat to the planet 0:24:32.493 --> 0:24:34.893 as a whole. First, he says, let me state for 0:24:34.933 --> 0:24:39.733 the record that I do not believe that carbon dioxide, methane, 0:24:39.773 --> 0:24:44.293 and nitrous oxide are existential threats to the planet, nor 0:24:44.333 --> 0:24:47.733 are they reasonable threats of any kind. Second, let me 0:24:47.813 --> 0:24:49.973 also state for the record that I do not believe 0:24:50.013 --> 0:24:53.973 carbon dioxide is a pollutant. In fact, if all life 0:24:54.053 --> 0:24:58.173 on Earth ceased to exist, our atmosphere would lose all 0:24:58.253 --> 0:25:01.653 its oxygen content, and the proportion of carbon dioxide in 0:25:01.693 --> 0:25:06.573 our atmosphere would increase above ninety five percent. So what 0:25:06.733 --> 0:25:09.733 he writes, and then goes on, look, I have to 0:25:09.773 --> 0:25:13.133 say this. I've said it before, but in that debate 0:25:13.173 --> 0:25:15.493 that was held by Sky Television and back in two 0:25:15.533 --> 0:25:22.133 thousand and seven, the television debate after showing the first 0:25:24.013 --> 0:25:27.413 climate scam movie, a bunch of us sat around a 0:25:27.413 --> 0:25:35.893 couple of professors Greenie and myself and another another professor 0:25:36.253 --> 0:25:38.573 who was sort of who was on my team if 0:25:38.613 --> 0:25:42.813 you like. And at the end of that I was 0:25:42.893 --> 0:25:47.653 asked for the last words and my comment was simple, 0:25:49.133 --> 0:25:54.413 CO two is not a pollutant. End of story, and 0:25:55.133 --> 0:25:57.453 everyone reckon we run that won the debate, but the 0:25:58.013 --> 0:26:00.813 point being that that has been around for a long time, 0:26:01.213 --> 0:26:04.013 but it's not a pollutant. But it doesn't get much 0:26:04.053 --> 0:26:05.693 traction in mainstream. 0:26:09.093 --> 0:26:11.173 If you look on the stuff website, it will not 0:26:11.373 --> 0:26:15.453 publish anything that questions man made global warming. 0:26:16.653 --> 0:26:22.093 Well stuff are stuffed. Yeah, no no interest in them 0:26:22.413 --> 0:26:26.773 except for the people I know there. Now, is there 0:26:26.813 --> 0:26:28.373 any any more you want to hit on? 0:26:29.813 --> 0:26:29.893 No? 0:26:30.293 --> 0:26:33.613