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Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find you

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Speaker 1: are one of a kind on the huddle this evening'

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Speaker 1: got Morris Williamson Auckland Council obviously former National Party minister

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Speaker 1: and Ali Jones read pr and christ Church Local board member.

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Speaker 1: Holl are you too good?

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Speaker 2: Ay, Good evening, Heather, and good evening Ali Hirius.

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Speaker 1: Morris, what did you make of the pay equity announcement.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a sensible move because they're not getting

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Speaker 2: rid of pay equity. Pay equity will be here to stay.

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Speaker 2: But it's how you do the comparators. And I've had

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Speaker 2: a number of companies and employers raise it with me

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Speaker 2: along the way, saying that the ludicrous comparator of some

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Speaker 2: staff they've got with another occupation I think I I mean,

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Speaker 2: I've heard the Minister in the House today saying that

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Speaker 2: Health New Zealand and the clerical staff were being compared

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Speaker 2: to mechanical engineers Health New Zealand librarians to transport engineers.

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Speaker 2: And the one I loved was Oranger Tamariki social workers

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Speaker 2: to air traffic controllers. There's just lunatic lunacy. It's dear lunacy.

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Speaker 2: So the idea of pay equity is good, but make

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Speaker 2: sure you get the comparators sorted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 3: What do you think about it, Ali, Well, there's no

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Speaker 3: doubt in my mind that the coalition's using this to

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Speaker 3: fund the budget. Absolutely nothing they have said today Luxeon

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Speaker 3: or van Walden has made sense. So I heard chryst

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Speaker 3: Re Luxen say we're making sure we have a process

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Speaker 3: that is more robust, workable and sustainable than what I mean.

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Speaker 3: I have been involved with the College of Midwives pay

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Speaker 3: equity case. I'm not any longer. The hopes they had

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Speaker 3: to jump through the independent very expensive reports that they

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Speaker 3: had to pay for to get robust and accepted comparators.

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Speaker 1: And this is also for Meris.

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Speaker 3: The midwives union was huge. Morris, I think you're being

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Speaker 3: incredibly disingenuous when you start talking about, you know, comparing

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Speaker 3: librarians with engineers and so forth. Once it gets to

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Speaker 3: a negotiation into a court case, as it has with

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Speaker 3: the midwives, you just don't get that stuff accepted without

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Speaker 3: robust independent reports. So I think they're actually changing something

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Speaker 3: that doesn't need changeing.

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Speaker 1: Who were the midwives comparing themselves to. By the way, Alie, that's.

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Speaker 3: A good question, and that's one but I haven't managed

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Speaker 3: to look at and pull up today. But the PwC report,

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Speaker 3: I think it was PwC that did it. They looked

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Speaker 3: at the number of years that someone studies for what

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Speaker 3: their experiences and what their life protection responsibilities are in

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Speaker 3: the work that they do. So there are a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of different things that it might have been, for example,

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Speaker 3: a police detective. I'm not sure, don't quote me on that,

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Speaker 3: but it is done in a very scientific, very very

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Speaker 3: independent and robust waste. So I was curious to hear

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Speaker 3: Brook van Velden say that rubbish to.

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Speaker 2: So Alie, Well, those comparators I gave you here that

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Speaker 2: are actually in claims, because I've seen the copies of them,

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Speaker 2: and I thought the best one i've seen, I haven't

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Speaker 2: even yes that one use this one. Corrections officers have

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Speaker 2: been used as a compartor for nurses claims, for admin's

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Speaker 2: support staff claims, and for teacher aides. Now, I don't

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Speaker 2: think they've got anything to do with each other, whether

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Speaker 2: one's better or not, or bigger or less, but I

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Speaker 2: just think to use them as a comparator for the

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Speaker 2: work you do is just wrong.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but we don't know that, Morris. That's what the

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Speaker 3: Price Waterhouse Cooper's report does. It looks at how long

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Speaker 3: people study. It looks at their degree of responsibility. It

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Speaker 3: looks at the life protection and the work that they do.

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Speaker 3: It looks at their earnings. We can't sit here as

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Speaker 3: lay people and say, oh, an engineer is nothing like xyz.

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Speaker 3: It's got to be done properly. So those claims that

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Speaker 3: you're talking about are likely, if they don't stack up,

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Speaker 3: to be kicked out. So the process in the system

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Speaker 3: is already there. This is purely to get money that

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Speaker 3: they can put towards the budget, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Ali In which case, then if the claims will the

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Speaker 1: thirty three claims that have been sopped, they will simply

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Speaker 1: be reapplying, presumably under the new rules. It is just

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Speaker 1: deferring the spend, then, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, it is deferring the spend. But we all

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Speaker 3: know and Morris will know this too, that when you're

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Speaker 3: working either with long term plans at a city council

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Speaker 3: level or you're doing it through a budget at a

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Speaker 3: national government level, being able to first spend and move

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Speaker 3: money around is absolutely key. And presenting of the budget,

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Speaker 3: and the point that she made about just starting again.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of just dropped into conversation. This case

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Speaker 3: that the Midwives has been have been running, has been

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Speaker 3: going for nearly a decade. The decision has been reserved

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Speaker 3: for nearly a year, and it has cost them thousands

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Speaker 3: and thousands of dollars. Is that just going to be

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Speaker 3: chucked out the window?

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Speaker 1: When she doesn't? It will be, won't it? Because it

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Speaker 1: is retrospective. This law is retrospective, So it stops everything

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Speaker 1: in its tracks, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that I don't know, And I've just been in

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Speaker 3: touch with the college head now and she she does, well.

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Speaker 2: It's out retrospect. But how about if you get a

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Speaker 2: much better sort of clarity about the comparators and the

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Speaker 2: definitions into the legislation and then you don't have these

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Speaker 2: wild and swings of there is no way that some

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Speaker 2: of these occupations are comparisons.

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Speaker 3: Why does it need to be in the legislation, Morris,

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Speaker 3: it's in the negotiations, and they vary so much, particularly

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Speaker 3: with women. Where you've got and who one of your

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Speaker 3: texters say earlier, Heather, Oh you can't compare? You know

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Speaker 3: what was it a librarian with an engineer. They've got

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Speaker 3: to be men and women in the same job. The

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Speaker 3: point is most of these professions have got only women

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Speaker 3: in them. That's what a comparator is for. So I

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Speaker 3: don't think people actually understand that the Huddle.

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Speaker 2: With New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary results with

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Speaker 2: unparallel reach.

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Speaker 1: Back of the Huddle. Morris Williams and Ali Jones. Ali,

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Speaker 1: what did you make of the NATS pretending they're going

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Speaker 1: to do something about banning kids from social media? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Look, when you get into the detail of it, I

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Speaker 3: think some of the comments that some of the politicians

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Speaker 3: have made are fair enough. They're talking about putting some restrictions,

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Speaker 3: putting some parameters, putting some controls around it that you know,

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Speaker 3: we try and help our kids in many ways in

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Speaker 3: their lives in New Zealand, and this is causing a

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Speaker 3: huge problem just almost unfettered access to the Internet. So look,

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Speaker 3: I think banning is probably not what they're going to do.

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Speaker 3: It all depends what the terms of reference are and

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Speaker 3: what the outcomes expected.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you really were going to do something, Morris,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't do it as a member's bill. Would you

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Speaker 1: you do it as much it does as a government bill,

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Speaker 1: or get some cross pack.

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Speaker 2: It goes into the bis get ten and never gets

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Speaker 2: seen again, so it's got your headlined today and you'll

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Speaker 2: never remember it again. I actually think it's a great idea.

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Speaker 2: I've got very serious concerns about how you make it work,

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Speaker 2: and how are you implemented, and how easy it is

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Speaker 2: to get around it, because these tech companies will set

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Speaker 2: up new products which won't be called social media products.

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Speaker 2: They'll be streaming service or something else, and you'll still

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Speaker 2: be able to put your material in. I just think

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Speaker 2: the kids' minds are being warped so badly by social media.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really changing the world in a really

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Speaker 2: bad way. And if there is a way when my

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Speaker 2: kids grow up. We had to try and find a

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Speaker 2: way to blocking the Wi fi so they couldn't be

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Speaker 2: playing on the social media as it was back and

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Speaker 2: it was only getting started. In the end, we got

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Speaker 2: to the point we didn't know how to do it

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Speaker 2: because the technology didn't allow on those days, So we

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Speaker 2: turned the Wi Fi off at about six o'clock at

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Speaker 2: night and Raymond would complain to me, I want to

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Speaker 2: go on to the Internet and look, as I said,

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Speaker 2: well you can't because it's all blocked off so that

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Speaker 2: kids can't get on the w I think it's the

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Speaker 2: best thing to do is to stop your kids from

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Speaker 2: seeing this stuff because they are exposed to garbage on

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Speaker 2: that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I would have thought, Morris, that there's a reasonable number

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Speaker 1: of votes out there from parents, you know, parents like

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Speaker 1: yourself who've been through, parents like myself who face the

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Speaker 1: prospect of going through it like there must be a

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Speaker 1: huge number and grandparents, So there must be a huge

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Speaker 1: number of votes, and actually doing this properly and getting

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Speaker 1: it right.

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Speaker 2: Correct, And the only way you'll get it right is

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Speaker 2: if you do it as a government bill with all

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Speaker 2: the necessary advisors in there and the contestable advice about

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Speaker 2: how you make it work, how you get around the

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Speaker 2: tech companies trying to skirt around it. Put some penalties

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Speaker 2: in place that they can get pinged and stung quite

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Speaker 2: badly if they're proven to misbehave. Because it's a great idea.

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Speaker 2: I just it's really hard to do, That's all I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Too, right, Hey, Ali, I'm still not even though three

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Speaker 1: of them have done it now with the gmails. I'm

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Speaker 1: still not that exercise by it, are you? No? Not really?

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Speaker 3: I look, this was actually really close to home for

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Speaker 3: me because I can't do everything that I need to

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Speaker 3: do with my elector roll, with my counselor email. I

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Speaker 3: can't screenshot, I can't copy and paste, and apparently this

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Speaker 3: is all downe to security and obviously it's a trust

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Speaker 3: issue as well. I know it's bloody.

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Speaker 1: It's very frustrated.

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Speaker 3: So I have to while I have to forward it

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Speaker 3: to my red PR email and do things from there,

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Speaker 3: which the Council's happy about because then if there's a leak,

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Speaker 3: thing though, it's me sending it to my work email.

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Speaker 3: But I know what the frustrations are. What I'm more

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Speaker 3: concerned about is how these ministers aren't able to do

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Speaker 3: the jobs that they are supposed to be doing. Quite

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Speaker 3: how hard is it to make sure you can print too, right?

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Speaker 1: I mean the printing issue is something I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what though, Morris, I was thinking, actually I'm quite impressed

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Speaker 1: with I always worry about ministers doing this because I

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Speaker 1: think are they trying to get around the Official Information Act?

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Speaker 1: But I was quite impressed that actually TVs had managed

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Speaker 1: to get like a couple of folders that Erica actually

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Speaker 1: gave to them out of her own Gmail account. That's

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Speaker 1: not bad, is it? She's facing up Heather.

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Speaker 2: I learned about twelve thirteen years ago how to not

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Speaker 2: do this stuff. A strappy young reporter working for I

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Speaker 2: think the story TV three stopped me on the bridge

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Speaker 2: walk over and shoved a microphone in my face and said,

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Speaker 2: do you use private email? And what the hell is

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Speaker 2: this course?

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Speaker 1: Does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, that's right, it was you.

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Speaker 1: Was because I think I was how embarrassing? Stop each

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Speaker 1: is the right way, but was it's why were you

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Speaker 1: in trouble? What were you doing?

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Speaker 2: What you were asking? Every one of them? All ministers

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Speaker 2: were being asked as we walked over, did we use

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Speaker 2: private email? And I thought, well, yeah, of course I

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Speaker 2: do ye private email? I mean, if I'm arranging to

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Speaker 2: have dinner with Ray when I don't use my parliamentary

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Speaker 2: ministerial emails.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing and doing it on email? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: Why aren't you just calling your.

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Speaker 2: Wife many times? If you're stuck in a boring meeting

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Speaker 2: and you can't get out to make a phone call,

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Speaker 2: I'll flick an email to somebody. You really so.

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Speaker 1: Would you email? This is interesting, you'd email your wife

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Speaker 1: for a dinner date over texting your wife.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no, not a dinner date, but

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Speaker 2: just to say I'll be back home tonight for dinner.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you're.

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Speaker 3: Still doing it hither, aren't you? Why don't you shove

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Speaker 3: the microphone right up?

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Speaker 1: As I am so fascinated by Morris's private communications, as

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Speaker 1: you you years later.

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Speaker 2: You scared. You scared the bejeez on me that day

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Speaker 2: because I thought I had done something wrong, and then

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Speaker 2: it turned out every minister you were stopping and asking them.

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Speaker 1: It was just the confidence with which I was approaching it. Obviously, guys,

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Speaker 1: thank you. It's lovely to chat to you. Morris Williamson

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Speaker 1: and Ellie Jones are huddle this evening.

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Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy, Allen Drive listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio