1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: If we going to Britain now offering Rod Little's with us, Roderick, 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: good morning to you. 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 2: Good morning to you mate, Nice to hear you. 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Back, Nice to be back. Now, do explain this to me. 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: Sue Gray earns one hundred and seventy thousand pounds and 6 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: Keystarmer earns one hundred and sixty six Now in this 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: country we had the same scenario. There are plenty of 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: public servants who earn more than politicians. We don't seem 9 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: to make that bigger deal about it. Why is it 10 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: a big deal for you guys? 11 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: It never used to be a big deal. I mean, 12 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: it's been this kind of corrosive thing over the last 13 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: twenty to thirty years that anybody who earns more than 14 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: the prime minister is earning too much. That's a matter 15 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: of fact. That's true if you're on the left and 16 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: you're looking at kind of the bosses of corporations. And 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: it's true if you're on the right and you're looking 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: at council chiefs, because the majority of council chiefs across 19 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: the country will earn more than than prime minister does. 20 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: And Sue Gray, as you know, a senior civil servant 21 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: earned more than the prime minister. It just happens to 22 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: be the case that, you know, in the case of 23 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: Sue Gray, she was overpaid by roughly amount of the 24 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: amount of money which she received in most people's opinions, 25 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: but it's always been the case made And it's stupid, 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, because one of the things we 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: should talk about and perhaps are barred from doing so, 28 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: and no politician will raise it. It's that both our 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: MPs and indeed our prime minister don't get enough money. No, 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: it really is as simple as. 31 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: That, exactly. See, our prime minister gets four hundred and 32 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: eighty one thousand dollars, which in your money is two 33 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: forty so way more, yeah, than the Prime Minister of 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: Great Britain. Mind you, our prime minister doesn't accept glasses 35 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: and free suits, so it's sort of all balances up, 36 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: doesn't it. 37 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: Well you might say that, but then by the same 38 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: tone of your prime minister is also the prime minister 39 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: of a small hermit state tucked away at the end 40 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: near the it is. It seems to me an absurdity 41 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: that the prime minister of this country doesn't get somewhere 42 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: in the original three to four hundred thousand pounds. You know, 43 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: it seems to be an absurdity. 44 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: So Gray's new job as the Overseer of Nations or 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: whatever the hell they call it, what is that? 46 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 2: It isn't anything. She doesn't have a job. She's been 47 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: shuffled off, and I one could see her being shuffled 48 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: off a year ago when she was first appointed. She's obviously, 49 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: of course a lot of dissension or been the occasion 50 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: of a lot of dissension within Downing Street and within 51 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: the people who who who have been working for Karstar's campaign. 52 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: She's very simple minded, she's dogmatic. I think the phrase 53 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: which is usually used is doesn't suffer fools gladly, which 54 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: means she's a rude cow. I think say it's the 55 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: way one has to translate these civil service episeets. But 56 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: it's also true that much as with Alistair Campbell, she 57 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: had to become the story. And it's not just that 58 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: because this is quite a remarkable decision. If you look 59 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: at Keir Starmer over the last six to eight months, 60 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: whether since becoming Prime Minister or even before then, he 61 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: hasn't sacked people. There have been calls for him to 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: sack people and he's never done it, but clearly the 63 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: howl round within his own camp rather than in the 64 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,119 Speaker 2: press at large, had become so grave that he could 65 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: do nothing other than that. And so we have a 66 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: new chief of staff now, who is Morgan McSweeney or 67 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: Boatie mcboat face as he's almost certainly going to become known. 68 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: Who's an Irish guy who's been working with Starma for 69 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: a long time. 70 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: Right, So I'm watching Lord O'Donnell, who was the former 71 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: cabinet secretary, and you're looking for a cabinet secretary at 72 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: the Minment and that's a couple hundred thousand pounds a year, Ken, 73 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: and he's arguing you should get paid more because he, 74 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: subsequent to being the cabinet secretary has been he says, 75 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: paid a lot more to do a lot less. Do 76 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: you not run the risk if you don't pay people 77 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: properly that the only reason they're really there is for 78 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: the power or the authority or the ego, and not 79 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: actually for the money, because half decent people can earn 80 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: decent money elsewhere. 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 2: Of course you do. And it's not just that, mate. 82 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: I mean, forgive me for defending Starma for a moment, 83 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 2: but you know, if you are supposedly the most powerful 84 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: man in the country, but you're being paid at the 85 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: level of the manager of Driffield City Council. You know, 86 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: then you are prone to the kindnesses of aids who 87 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: offer you a million pound apartment or an eighteen million 88 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: pound apartment and buy some clothes for your poor wife. 89 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: You know. 90 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: The fact that we pay our elective politicians so little 91 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 2: comparatively is that it means that they are at risk 92 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: always of this kind of accusation that they're taking money 93 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: on the frame. And yet if you try to suggest 94 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: that the money should be raised, you know you will 95 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: hear it on question Time on the BBC. I've said 96 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: before on Question Time the MP should get more and 97 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: there will always be a nurse says I get. 98 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: Thirty four thousand pounds a year. You have to try 99 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 3: to explain to them, yes, well okay, and I'm sure 100 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: you do a great job, but this is the Prime Minister, 101 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 3: you know, this is an important job. 102 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: I had a poll out this morning. I had a 103 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: poll out this morning on Starmer who is favorability and 104 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: favorability is now sitting at minus thirty five and this 105 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,559 Speaker 1: resets on and they're looking at the norn don text 106 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: and the equity texts and the private penchingtech. How have 107 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: things gone so wrong so fast? 108 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: Because he's not very good? I think it's the first 109 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: thing to say. I mean, I think that does have 110 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: to be said that there never seemed to be any 111 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: driving force behind Starma other than the desire to win. 112 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: And he won on a very shallow basis. You know, 113 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: he didn't carry within the sorts of people which Tony 114 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: Blair carried with him in ninety seven, and still far 115 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 2: less that Margaret Tacha carried with her in seventy nine, 116 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: even though it's a comparable landslide. He is not very adept, 117 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: He is not very agile politically. There is no great 118 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: imagination about how to make this country better, which is 119 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: what we all rather hoped for. There are people within 120 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: his shadow, were within his cabinet, who suggests at a 121 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: degree of imagination, such as web streeting, for example. But 122 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: nonetheless this is a great managerial, boring labor regime and 123 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: people don't like it. 124 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: Always a pleasure, Mike. We'll catch up on Thursday. Rod 125 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: little out of Britain this morning. I wonder if there's 126 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: a see we had this discussion in this country didn't 127 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: we with the Adun government, they weren't really. They set 128 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: there for nine years, allegedly getting prepped up. When they arrived, 129 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: they didn't know what they were doing, so it was 130 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: endless working groups. We've seen the same with alban Ezi 131 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: in Australia. Small honeymoon, but now a disaster starmer hasn't 132 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: even lasted one hundred days. I wonder if there's a 133 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: connection for more from the Mic Asking Breakfast. 134 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 2: Listen live to news talks. 135 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 136 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.