1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,972 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B. 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,653 --> 00:00:18,853 Speaker 2: So we are talking about the conversations around the Foreign 4 00:00:19,053 --> 00:00:22,533 Speaker 2: Buyers band. Consultation is underway within New Zealand first and 5 00:00:22,573 --> 00:00:26,853 Speaker 2: the coalition government the other parties for any changes, and 6 00:00:27,253 --> 00:00:30,853 Speaker 2: they are expecting to announce those changes later this week. 7 00:00:31,013 --> 00:00:34,133 Speaker 2: Joining us now is Glenn Jones, Managing director of Southerby's 8 00:00:34,412 --> 00:00:36,812 Speaker 2: International in Wellington. Glenn, very good afternoons. 9 00:00:36,853 --> 00:00:38,293 Speaker 3: You good afternoon, Matt Tyler. 10 00:00:38,573 --> 00:00:41,772 Speaker 4: What are the current rules about foreign buyers in New Zealand? 11 00:00:42,293 --> 00:00:46,733 Speaker 5: Glenn, Well, effectively there's a blanket ban. So even if 12 00:00:47,053 --> 00:00:50,412 Speaker 5: we're trying to track significant global investment at the moment 13 00:00:50,772 --> 00:00:54,013 Speaker 5: with what they call the Golden Visa and that sort 14 00:00:54,013 --> 00:00:57,253 Speaker 5: of investment of between five and and ten million dollars 15 00:00:57,773 --> 00:00:59,773 Speaker 5: over sort of a period of three to five years, 16 00:01:00,693 --> 00:01:03,653 Speaker 5: even when those people invest those sums in this country, 17 00:01:04,053 --> 00:01:06,452 Speaker 5: they're still unable to buy a residential house here. 18 00:01:08,333 --> 00:01:10,973 Speaker 4: A right, And what are the thresholds being considered. 19 00:01:12,973 --> 00:01:15,133 Speaker 5: Well, there's been discussions around sort of I think two 20 00:01:15,133 --> 00:01:18,613 Speaker 5: million was what National Compact campaigned on. I think there's 21 00:01:18,613 --> 00:01:22,653 Speaker 5: been murmurs from New Zealand. First it'd be five million plus. 22 00:01:22,413 --> 00:01:23,372 Speaker 3: But those sort of. 23 00:01:23,333 --> 00:01:26,453 Speaker 5: Barriers or lines in the sand, that's sort of nonsensical. 24 00:01:27,292 --> 00:01:31,053 Speaker 5: You know, at the moment the world is vying for 25 00:01:31,212 --> 00:01:33,933 Speaker 5: the world's best talent in the world and significant investment, 26 00:01:33,973 --> 00:01:37,493 Speaker 5: you know, since since COVID, GFC and lots of global 27 00:01:37,533 --> 00:01:40,813 Speaker 5: crisis since you know, there's competition galore to get the 28 00:01:40,893 --> 00:01:44,413 Speaker 5: best people into this country. But our barrier to entry is, hey, look, 29 00:01:44,453 --> 00:01:46,613 Speaker 5: we want your money, but you can't buy a house 30 00:01:46,652 --> 00:01:48,893 Speaker 5: here now, even if you put in a say a 31 00:01:48,933 --> 00:01:52,373 Speaker 5: five million dollar blanket ban across the country for example, Hey, 32 00:01:52,493 --> 00:01:54,573 Speaker 5: you know, super uber wealthy people can come here for 33 00:01:54,653 --> 00:01:57,173 Speaker 5: five million plus. You know, if you look in Wellington 34 00:01:57,213 --> 00:02:00,253 Speaker 5: region at the moment, there's only two five million dollar 35 00:02:00,293 --> 00:02:02,933 Speaker 5: homes available on the market. So that are in ones 36 00:02:02,973 --> 00:02:06,213 Speaker 5: of why wrap and ones in company. So are we 37 00:02:06,293 --> 00:02:08,453 Speaker 5: then saying to somebody, hey, look, if you want to 38 00:02:08,453 --> 00:02:11,493 Speaker 5: build a business here in Wellington, for example, you'd have 39 00:02:11,533 --> 00:02:15,333 Speaker 5: to commute from Auckland or Queenstown. I mean, just that's 40 00:02:15,413 --> 00:02:17,773 Speaker 5: non sensical. And then that impacts of regions at what 41 00:02:17,893 --> 00:02:20,533 Speaker 5: level are the regions going to get hit by that? 42 00:02:20,573 --> 00:02:22,933 Speaker 5: Because if somebody wants to start a business in Palmerston 43 00:02:23,013 --> 00:02:27,373 Speaker 5: North or Timaru. It's going to push them to the 44 00:02:27,413 --> 00:02:29,333 Speaker 5: big cities, to the urban cities. 45 00:02:30,252 --> 00:02:32,453 Speaker 4: What are the ramifications because this is of course the 46 00:02:32,573 --> 00:02:35,733 Speaker 4: argument for housing affordability for New Zealand is on a 47 00:02:35,893 --> 00:02:37,412 Speaker 4: say two million dollar threshold. 48 00:02:38,613 --> 00:02:41,933 Speaker 5: Look, I mean, I think the wholesale ban frankly was 49 00:02:42,613 --> 00:02:44,933 Speaker 5: non sensical. But even if you could argue at the 50 00:02:44,972 --> 00:02:47,493 Speaker 5: time it was fit for purpose, it certainly isn't now. 51 00:02:47,773 --> 00:02:50,573 Speaker 5: I mean pre twenty eighteen market, when the band came 52 00:02:50,613 --> 00:02:54,333 Speaker 5: into force, only two point seven percent of our homes 53 00:02:54,413 --> 00:02:58,053 Speaker 5: were being acquired by foreigners. Now that was in a 54 00:02:58,133 --> 00:03:00,773 Speaker 5: year I think was about about a one hundred thousand sales. 55 00:03:01,013 --> 00:03:03,572 Speaker 5: We're in a population five million, we have two million 56 00:03:03,573 --> 00:03:06,773 Speaker 5: and fifty thousand households and two thousand and six hundred 57 00:03:06,773 --> 00:03:09,613 Speaker 5: are there thereabouts in one year went foreigners and that 58 00:03:09,733 --> 00:03:12,573 Speaker 5: catapulted this ban in place. Now, I can think of 59 00:03:12,613 --> 00:03:18,413 Speaker 5: some other drivers that were far more significant to inflating 60 00:03:18,413 --> 00:03:21,853 Speaker 5: our house price at the time, and foreign buyers coming 61 00:03:21,853 --> 00:03:24,053 Speaker 5: in here, you know we're not one of them. Now, 62 00:03:24,133 --> 00:03:27,493 Speaker 5: I mean, you can adopt a balanced approach here. I 63 00:03:27,532 --> 00:03:30,493 Speaker 5: don't think it needs to be binary. You know, foreigners 64 00:03:30,893 --> 00:03:32,933 Speaker 5: can buy here or they can't buy here. There's something 65 00:03:32,972 --> 00:03:35,653 Speaker 5: in the middle where everyone wins. You know, you put 66 00:03:35,693 --> 00:03:39,773 Speaker 5: you put a stamp duty on acquisitions at fifteen percent 67 00:03:40,893 --> 00:03:44,173 Speaker 5: for example, and to discourage speculation. If they buy a 68 00:03:44,213 --> 00:03:46,813 Speaker 5: second house or third house, that goes to thirty and 69 00:03:46,893 --> 00:03:49,493 Speaker 5: sixty percent respectively. You know that that stuff can go 70 00:03:49,613 --> 00:03:54,293 Speaker 5: straight back into social housing, healthcare, infrastructure, et cetera. And 71 00:03:54,333 --> 00:03:56,093 Speaker 5: how about for capital gains tax, you know, just put 72 00:03:56,093 --> 00:03:59,573 Speaker 5: a blanket flat forty percent attacks on the uplift of 73 00:03:59,613 --> 00:04:02,653 Speaker 5: when they sell. So they bought for one million you 74 00:04:02,733 --> 00:04:05,093 Speaker 5: know today and sold you know five years hence at 75 00:04:05,093 --> 00:04:06,893 Speaker 5: one point four million. You know, that's one hundred and 76 00:04:06,893 --> 00:04:10,013 Speaker 5: sixty thousand back into the government. Coffers and I also 77 00:04:10,053 --> 00:04:12,653 Speaker 5: understand some politicians have been arguing that we'll hold on. 78 00:04:13,653 --> 00:04:15,093 Speaker 5: You know, the big bad foreigners are going to come 79 00:04:15,133 --> 00:04:16,893 Speaker 5: over here, they go buy up New Zealand and then disappear, 80 00:04:16,893 --> 00:04:19,293 Speaker 5: and we're going to have ghost towns or ghost villages. Look, 81 00:04:19,533 --> 00:04:21,893 Speaker 5: there's solutions to every problem. You know, you can put 82 00:04:21,893 --> 00:04:25,453 Speaker 5: a vacancy tax on. Indeed, in Victoria and Australia they 83 00:04:25,493 --> 00:04:30,013 Speaker 5: have something similar called the absent tee owner surcharge which 84 00:04:30,373 --> 00:04:33,773 Speaker 5: deters ghost towns and generates local funding. Here, you could 85 00:04:33,813 --> 00:04:38,733 Speaker 5: say to local councils of homes that are owned by 86 00:04:38,773 --> 00:04:41,573 Speaker 5: foreigners a vacant for more than six months a year, 87 00:04:41,933 --> 00:04:45,013 Speaker 5: you know, charge the commercial council tax rates. You know 88 00:04:45,053 --> 00:04:47,653 Speaker 5: that's two point five times high in Auckland and three 89 00:04:47,693 --> 00:04:50,973 Speaker 5: point seven times high in Wellington. That then puts the 90 00:04:51,013 --> 00:04:54,013 Speaker 5: onus on local councils to ensure Yeah. 91 00:04:54,333 --> 00:04:56,773 Speaker 2: Yeah, but doesn't it cap make sense though, Glenn that 92 00:04:57,093 --> 00:04:59,533 Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying that it made no sense 93 00:04:59,573 --> 00:05:01,333 Speaker 2: to you when it was implemented in the first place, 94 00:05:01,333 --> 00:05:03,933 Speaker 2: and arguably a lot of that was a political move 95 00:05:04,013 --> 00:05:06,093 Speaker 2: that it was popular at the time. But is there 96 00:05:06,093 --> 00:05:09,373 Speaker 2: not still the argument at the first first home buyer 97 00:05:09,453 --> 00:05:12,453 Speaker 2: market that when people young New Zealanders are trying to 98 00:05:12,453 --> 00:05:14,013 Speaker 2: get into the home and they're getting help from mum 99 00:05:14,053 --> 00:05:16,733 Speaker 2: and dad, and there is always that argument that you 100 00:05:16,813 --> 00:05:19,533 Speaker 2: create more competition by allowing people who do not live 101 00:05:19,533 --> 00:05:23,653 Speaker 2: in this country to purchase those homes as well. I mean, 102 00:05:23,733 --> 00:05:25,933 Speaker 2: on an optic side of things, you can see why 103 00:05:26,093 --> 00:05:27,493 Speaker 2: it was so popular at the time. 104 00:05:28,293 --> 00:05:31,013 Speaker 5: Now no hundred percent. Look, I think there should be conditions. 105 00:05:31,053 --> 00:05:33,533 Speaker 5: I don't think any Joe blogs from across the world 106 00:05:33,533 --> 00:05:35,093 Speaker 5: you could just come here buy a house here. 107 00:05:35,413 --> 00:05:37,413 Speaker 3: You know, they'll have to have relative visas. 108 00:05:37,453 --> 00:05:37,573 Speaker 5: You know. 109 00:05:37,613 --> 00:05:39,213 Speaker 3: I think if you came in on a student. 110 00:05:38,973 --> 00:05:41,613 Speaker 5: Visa or any form of work visa, I think you 111 00:05:41,613 --> 00:05:44,533 Speaker 5: should ladder buy here. I mean, for example, we had 112 00:05:45,133 --> 00:05:47,173 Speaker 5: a couple from the US walk through a house of 113 00:05:47,213 --> 00:05:49,893 Speaker 5: about one point two million about five six weeks ago. 114 00:05:50,253 --> 00:05:52,973 Speaker 5: They were here on a six month fixed term visa 115 00:05:53,013 --> 00:05:54,333 Speaker 5: with the option of renewing. 116 00:05:54,373 --> 00:05:54,573 Speaker 3: That. 117 00:05:54,933 --> 00:05:56,613 Speaker 5: You know, they were unable to buy that. You know, 118 00:05:56,973 --> 00:06:00,293 Speaker 5: it's nonsensical that they that they couldn't. And the other 119 00:06:00,333 --> 00:06:03,213 Speaker 5: thing is, I think, you know that the Golden Visa, 120 00:06:03,213 --> 00:06:05,333 Speaker 5: I think that's great. You know, five to ten million 121 00:06:05,333 --> 00:06:07,693 Speaker 5: over three to five years. I think straight away they 122 00:06:07,693 --> 00:06:11,693 Speaker 5: should be allowed to at any price points. But I 123 00:06:11,693 --> 00:06:15,253 Speaker 5: think more than that, I'd bring that investment criteria down 124 00:06:15,333 --> 00:06:18,533 Speaker 5: to one or two million. But back to sort of 125 00:06:18,573 --> 00:06:21,333 Speaker 5: the skilled workers. You know, we've got a whole at 126 00:06:21,333 --> 00:06:24,973 Speaker 5: the moment, haven't we. We've got a very sizable skills shortagement. 127 00:06:24,973 --> 00:06:28,893 Speaker 5: We need healthcare, social services, I education, teaching for example. 128 00:06:29,373 --> 00:06:33,093 Speaker 5: We want these to attract these people. But we're saying, hey, 129 00:06:33,093 --> 00:06:35,053 Speaker 5: what you get here, you can't buy a house. I 130 00:06:35,053 --> 00:06:37,893 Speaker 5: mean again, it seems sort of counter intuitive. I think 131 00:06:37,973 --> 00:06:39,853 Speaker 5: last year we had a net loss of thirty thousand 132 00:06:39,893 --> 00:06:42,533 Speaker 5: people to Australia. On one hand, we don't want them 133 00:06:42,573 --> 00:06:45,253 Speaker 5: to leave. On the other, our doors are all but 134 00:06:45,373 --> 00:06:47,773 Speaker 5: close to the very people who we need to help 135 00:06:47,813 --> 00:06:51,493 Speaker 5: grow our country. And look, let's be honest, our economy 136 00:06:51,573 --> 00:06:53,933 Speaker 5: is on its knees. You know, any little any little 137 00:06:54,013 --> 00:06:56,613 Speaker 5: bit of relief at the moment would be beneficial to 138 00:06:56,613 --> 00:06:57,973 Speaker 5: all of us and have a sort of a domino 139 00:06:58,013 --> 00:07:01,533 Speaker 5: effective apostle outcomes across the country. 140 00:07:01,693 --> 00:07:04,973 Speaker 4: Could you see the advantage of a cap. But you 141 00:07:05,053 --> 00:07:11,133 Speaker 4: have the Overseas Investment Act being strategic, So you know, 142 00:07:11,253 --> 00:07:13,253 Speaker 4: if you've got some if we've got some people that 143 00:07:13,293 --> 00:07:16,253 Speaker 4: we really need and there's a really good cause for it, 144 00:07:16,253 --> 00:07:18,533 Speaker 4: it'll mean that that that a head office will move 145 00:07:18,573 --> 00:07:20,493 Speaker 4: to New Zealand and they've got a bunch of people 146 00:07:20,493 --> 00:07:23,093 Speaker 4: that need to bring in. Then we strategically go, well, 147 00:07:22,933 --> 00:07:26,173 Speaker 4: we'll sell to these people at any price because it's 148 00:07:26,173 --> 00:07:28,053 Speaker 4: great for the for the country. Do you think that 149 00:07:28,093 --> 00:07:30,133 Speaker 4: you could see a situation where the Overseas Investment and 150 00:07:30,133 --> 00:07:31,613 Speaker 4: it could be that dynamic. 151 00:07:32,693 --> 00:07:35,613 Speaker 3: Look again, it comes about how agile were we are. 152 00:07:35,693 --> 00:07:38,773 Speaker 5: You know, if we can make quick decisions quick then 153 00:07:38,853 --> 00:07:41,493 Speaker 5: look but by all means, but if but if I 154 00:07:41,533 --> 00:07:47,213 Speaker 5: mean historically the iiO process, Well, historically I think that 155 00:07:47,373 --> 00:07:49,293 Speaker 5: I approached when it first came in about five six 156 00:07:49,373 --> 00:07:51,453 Speaker 5: years ago. You know, some of these visas were taking 157 00:07:51,453 --> 00:07:53,973 Speaker 5: between sort of nine and years and months to process. 158 00:07:54,253 --> 00:07:57,053 Speaker 5: You know, we're in competition the world over. You know, 159 00:07:57,173 --> 00:07:59,373 Speaker 5: somebody's going to bite off their arm, you know. I 160 00:07:59,413 --> 00:08:03,533 Speaker 5: think it's well publicized that, you know, and various things 161 00:08:03,613 --> 00:08:05,773 Speaker 5: went on on the USA last year that that that 162 00:08:06,293 --> 00:08:09,133 Speaker 5: a significant quantity of people were We're googling how do 163 00:08:09,213 --> 00:08:11,773 Speaker 5: I move to X country? Now, if they have to 164 00:08:11,973 --> 00:08:14,093 Speaker 5: sit in line and wait six to twelve eighten months 165 00:08:14,133 --> 00:08:15,853 Speaker 5: to get to our country, they're going to go somewhere 166 00:08:15,893 --> 00:08:19,893 Speaker 5: else here. So there's a plethora of people highly skilled. 167 00:08:20,733 --> 00:08:23,453 Speaker 5: You went to United Kingdom, went to Spain, went to 168 00:08:23,533 --> 00:08:27,613 Speaker 5: canadatl and we would have lost out. Yeah, it just 169 00:08:27,653 --> 00:08:29,493 Speaker 5: seems a little bit Yeah, caun't intuitive. 170 00:08:29,813 --> 00:08:30,213 Speaker 3: Glenn. 171 00:08:30,373 --> 00:08:32,573 Speaker 2: Really great to get your expertise on this. Thanks very 172 00:08:32,612 --> 00:08:34,933 Speaker 2: much for joining us, Brilli, Thanks for your time. That 173 00:08:35,133 --> 00:08:38,573 Speaker 2: is Glenn Jones, Managing director of Southeby's International in Wellington. 174 00:08:39,293 --> 00:08:41,933 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks at b listen live on 175 00:08:42,012 --> 00:08:44,973 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 176 00:08:45,012 --> 00:08:47,573 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio