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Speaker 1: Now let's talk about what's going on with the unions.

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Speaker 1: The Primary Teachers' Union has threatened urgent legal action after

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Speaker 1: yesterday's announcement from the Public Service Commission. Brian Roach told

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Speaker 1: us yesterday he's offering pay rises of up to four

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Speaker 1: point seven percent to non union teachers despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that negotiations with the union is still ongoing.

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Speaker 2: We did this after careful consideration and on the basis

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Speaker 2: of equity between two categories of teachers, the unionized group,

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Speaker 2: and we're fully engaged with them and the non unionized group.

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Speaker 2: The two are separate and distinct, and that's how I

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Speaker 2: view them.

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Speaker 1: Liam Rutherford is the NZDI teacher leader and he is

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Speaker 1: with us.

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Speaker 3: Now, Hi, Liam Curder here the great to be there.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Mate. Listen, have you filed the

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Speaker 1: legal action yet?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so we have our filed legal action to bring

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Speaker 3: about urgent facilitation, which I mean it's something that we

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Speaker 3: shouldn't have to do. I mean, there should be some

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Speaker 3: willingness from the government to come to the table around facilitation.

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Speaker 3: And it's a shame that yesterday's our announcement has gotten

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Speaker 3: in the way.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that facilitation something you did last.

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Speaker 3: Week notes, So we had mediated bargaining. Facilitation is a

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Speaker 3: bit of a step up where both sides present their

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Speaker 3: presentations to a third party who writes an opinion as

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Speaker 3: to what should happen. It isn't an uncommon thing when

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Speaker 3: you do get to a challenging part of bargaining, and

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Speaker 3: that's what we're wanting to do with the Ministry of

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Speaker 3: Education now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when Brian Roach told us that he believed

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Speaker 1: it was an injunction, you were filing it's not an injunction.

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Speaker 2: No, that's right.

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Speaker 1: You are not trying to prevent non union teachers from

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Speaker 1: getting a pay rise.

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Speaker 3: No, we are incredibly frustrated and angry with the timing

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Speaker 3: of the move. This is a break from decades of

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Speaker 3: tradition where we settle the collective agreement and then peaches

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Speaker 3: that aren't members of the union get that passed on

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Speaker 3: through an IA. The challenge, and I think the frustration

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Speaker 3: and anger that we've heard from teachers over the last

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Speaker 3: twenty four hours is that they're now going to be

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Speaker 3: sitting in staff rooms where you've got some haves and

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Speaker 3: some have nots. And given the kind of collegial and

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Speaker 3: collaborative nature of teaching. That's where people's anger and frustration

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Speaker 3: comes from.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but I mean there is already frustration. I'd imagine

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Speaker 1: in staff rooms, don't you think where some of the

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Speaker 1: teachers being on the individual agreements waiting for this union

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Speaker 1: stuff to be wrapped up, we'll be feeling a little

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Speaker 1: grumpy at union members for the fact that it's being held.

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Speaker 2: Up for so long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we kind of hear two different things around that.

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Speaker 3: One is that this isn't a break from tradition. This

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Speaker 3: is how things have always worked and so it is

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Speaker 3: a normal within the education system up until now. But

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Speaker 3: what we're really hearing from teachers, and in the last

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Speaker 3: twenty four hours it's been nuts, is that there's frustration

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Speaker 3: that we're now having to deal with offers that actually

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Speaker 3: aren't going to address the issues going on. Primary teachers

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Speaker 3: in this round of bargaining put a great deal of

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Speaker 3: intent behind what it is that they were asking for,

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Speaker 3: because there are genuine issues. The ministry's own data shows

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Speaker 3: that we don't have enough teachers to be able to

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Speaker 3: be able to meet the needs that we currently have,

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Speaker 3: and so the things that we're talking about through negotiations

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Speaker 3: are about how we are going to be able to

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Speaker 3: attract and retain teachers. And when I say retain teachers,

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Speaker 3: I specifically mean now experienced tea teachers, because those are

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Speaker 3: the ones that are going to be the ones carrying

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Speaker 3: the load when it comes to implementing the government's change

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Speaker 3: management a gender around the new curriculum.

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Speaker 1: So is the government right in saying that thirty percent

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Speaker 1: of primary teachers are not unionized?

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Speaker 3: Technically correct? But a large group of those are part

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Speaker 3: time teachers or day to day relievers. If you walk

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Speaker 3: into any school, the overwhelming majority of full time classroom

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Speaker 3: teachers will be members.

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Speaker 2: Of the union.

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Speaker 1: What is that about eighty percent?

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Speaker 3: We don't go we don't go into specific numbers, but

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Speaker 3: but yet the overwhelming majority of full time classroom teachers

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Speaker 3: will be members of the union.

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Speaker 1: How does the proportion at the moment compare to the

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Speaker 1: proportion historically Because I'm surprised that the number of teachers

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Speaker 1: who are not unionized.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like I said, I mean the people that are

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Speaker 3: typically part time or day to day relievers. And so

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Speaker 3: have the data do you know? I don't have the

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Speaker 3: data around whether or not the number of relievers and

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Speaker 3: part time teachers are growing, and it totally, though we

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Speaker 3: are seeing a number of full time teachers may be

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Speaker 3: dropping a day or week and they cite things like

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Speaker 3: like a workload and wanting to have a better work life,

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Speaker 3: bad balance. And that's a real shame because that's a

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Speaker 3: direct impact on the kids in those classes who are

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Speaker 3: now juggling to tea teachers. But it is genuinely an

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Speaker 3: issue with God. Enough people wanting to become teachers, and

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Speaker 3: we seem to have an inability to hold onto them.

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Speaker 1: All right, Liam, listen, best of luck with all of this.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your time, Liam Rother for the NZDI

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