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Speaker 1: Off the back of Shane Ritchi's announcement yesterday of this

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Speaker 1: thirty million dollars for fast access to radiology, we've got

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Speaker 1: a Tiger University study that's found there has been an

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Speaker 1: increase in the likelihood of patients being denied specialist appointment.

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Speaker 1: So between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty two, the number

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Speaker 1: of referrals from GPS to public hospital specialists was stable,

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Speaker 1: but the risk of being declined increased by five point

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Speaker 1: two percent. A Tiger University professor, Robin Gold, was the

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Speaker 1: co author of this particular work and is with this, Robin,

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Speaker 1: very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: What Mike for good to be here.

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Speaker 1: I know that you're going to tell me it's tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of people. That is five percent over four years.

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Speaker 1: That big a deal.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's five more point two percent per year is

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Speaker 2: per so it is a big deal. It's seventeen thousand,

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Speaker 2: more than seventeen thousand extra people being denied over that

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Speaker 2: period of time.

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Speaker 1: And the reason is what money staff or the GP overreached.

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Speaker 1: And you shouldn't be here in the first place.

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Speaker 2: No, these are people who are well identified by a

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Speaker 2: GP as needing a special assessment or intervention by a specialist,

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Speaker 2: so you know, they're clinically clinically decided by a GP.

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Speaker 2: I mean the issues that do with longstanding issues to

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Speaker 2: do with workforce. Sometimes it's to do with availability of

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Speaker 2: allied staff such as you know, theater technicians and so forth.

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Speaker 2: Funding because remember, people are denied treatment because there is

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Speaker 2: not enough funding available to go down to those who

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Speaker 2: are in need. So it's sort of a nasty combination

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Speaker 2: of factors.

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Speaker 1: Is this just the way we're looking at it? Because

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Speaker 1: in other words, what you could do instead of sending

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Speaker 1: back to the GP is simply go, yep, we'll put

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Speaker 1: you on the list. Unfortunately, about list is four years

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Speaker 1: and sixteen months long, you know what I'm saying. So

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Speaker 1: it's one or the other, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, our hospitals try very very hard, you know,

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Speaker 2: to bring these lists down. From time to time, they

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Speaker 2: get extra injections of funding and they'll run weekend clinics

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Speaker 2: and so forth. But it's an interminable problem and we

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Speaker 2: really need to tackle it in a much more concerted

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Speaker 2: and cohesive way. And there are various things that could

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Speaker 2: be done.

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Speaker 1: Is it purely money? Like the radiology the thirty million.

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Speaker 1: Thirty million buys you more radiology. We just need more

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Speaker 1: of this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And that's a really good initiative action that was

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Speaker 2: announced yesterday because that's about changing the system. That's about

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Speaker 2: permitting people to be referred by a GP for radiology

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Speaker 2: before they see the specialist in the first place. So

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Speaker 2: we need more sort of innovation within the system and

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Speaker 2: that's what yesterday's announcement is all about. Now.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to make this all about grandmother research,

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Speaker 1: but I know of a couple of people at the

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Speaker 1: moment who have gone along to their GP. They've been

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Speaker 1: referred to a specialist for scans, for MRIs, for a

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Speaker 1: specialist consultation. All of it's happened in what I would

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Speaker 1: regard as as an exceedingly short period of time. In

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Speaker 1: other words, to my eye, the system works a treat.

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Speaker 1: What's happening with them that allegedly isn't happening with thousands

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Speaker 1: of others.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, the system is not perfect, and for

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Speaker 2: some people it works really well, and that's the case

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Speaker 2: with the people, you know, for others it doesn't and

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Speaker 2: sometimes attacks advocacy. There's quite a lot involved in all

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Speaker 2: of this, and that shouldn't be the case. You shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be having to advocate and phone up and try and

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Speaker 2: work out what's happening. So, yes, it works terrifically for

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Speaker 2: many people, and most people will say that the care

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Speaker 2: that they get when they receive it is absolutely terrific.

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Speaker 2: But that's not always the case.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So as the person who doesn't get the access

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Speaker 1: degrades in terms of health, do they not bump up

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Speaker 1: the list to the point where they do get accepted

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Speaker 1: or does that not happen?

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Speaker 2: They do bump up, and often it will take a

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Speaker 2: re referral by the GP, so they'll have another go

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Speaker 2: and at that point you might be bumped up the list.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you call it a national scandal short of literally

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Speaker 1: money being thrown at stuff and that buys one the

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Speaker 1: equipment and to the specialists. Is there anything else obvious

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Speaker 1: we can do or we're just going to be having

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Speaker 1: these reports till the day we die.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's quite a bit we can do.

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Speaker 2: The new budget about five billion dollars going into hospital

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Speaker 2: specialist services and into primary care and community health. I

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Speaker 2: think there's a good opportunity now the new government to

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Speaker 2: allocate some of that money directly to unmet needs, and

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Speaker 2: then they could be starting to look at things like

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Speaker 2: how do we get our hospital specialists and our gps

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Speaker 2: together to form unmet needs care teams. So THEYN come

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Speaker 2: up with more innovations like the one that was announced

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Speaker 2: yesterday to try and unblock the system and give greater

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Speaker 2: access to people. Of course we need more training of

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Speaker 2: specialists and allied providers, but there's a range of things

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Speaker 2: that could be done with well, all right.

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Speaker 1: Go well, Robin, appreciate it very much, Doctor Robin Gould,

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Speaker 1: co author and co director of the Tigo Center for

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Speaker 1: Health Systems and Technologies. For more from the mic Asking Breakfast,

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