WEBVTT - "Kane Williamson Says 'Thanks But No Thanks' To NZC" 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.240 Welcome to the BAC podcast, coming here from the Export 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.120 Beer Garden studio in the midst of another I think 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.680 gloom laden and fascinating week in recent New Zealand cricket history. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:21.400 This week we reflect on what the announcement from New 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.079 Zealand Cricket about Steady the Ship's future plans. We grind 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.120 some gears about the warm down matches against the Uganda 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.760 Cricket Cranes and the Papa New Guinea Baron Mundy's and 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.320 Davey Dumdum provides more incontrovertible evidence that he's a massive punisher. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:36.680 I'm Paul Ford, godfather of the Big Brigade, and I'm 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.000 joined by a master of the New Zealand Cricket scoop 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.960 this week, Dylan Pleaver Our Plenty Dente of the substack 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.880 sports newsletter The Bounce DC. How are your optimism levels 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:46.680 this week? Mate? 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:53.760 Flatlining? It's been an interesting week actually, particularly for myself. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.920 As you mentioned, I was lucky enough to get a 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:02.360 tip that King Williams and was about to take up 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.039 the option well turned down the option of a central 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.560 contract in favor of a casual pain contract. I've sort 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.679 of chicily put it in here that he's literally torn 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.200 up his contract and thrown it in the face of 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.800 New Zealand CEO and friend of the BYC Scott Weenink 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:25.440 Will New Zealand Cricket Players Association CAPO di Caappily. Heath 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:30.600 Mills laughs maniacally from his bolt hole in the Hanua Rangers, 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:32.920 which is a he. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:34.600 Does have a he does have a bit of a 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.920 Marlin Brando feel about him sometimes, Heath Mills, and I 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.040 mean that in a loving and respectful way. 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:46.120 Yes, yeah, So it is interesting. And look I break 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:47.760 the story that he is going to take up a 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.640 casual contract. There is all sorts of mechanics around it 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.600 that make this reasonably unique. The fact that New Zealand 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:59.280 doesn't have international cricket, doesn't have tests scheduled for that 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.560 generary win. He's almost certainly got an option to go 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.400 and play in South Africa. And look, if you take 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.360 it at face value, he is committing it seems, at 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.040 least for the medium to long term to New Zealand cricket. 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.720 So I guess I write the news story. So I'm 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.359 going to throw the analysis to you, Paul, and then 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:21.400 what does it all mean? 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.400 Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean it was I 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:26.200 guess there was sort of some bread crumbs that went 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.200 there after the pupa New Guinea game where he got 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.240 asked about what he was going to do and what 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.239 were his plans after the early exit, and his words were, 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.080 I don't know, which is always that's the kind of 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:42.040 thing that a veteran journalist such as yourself may may 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.120 have clocked. He did say, there's a bit of time 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.880 between now and the twenty twenty six World Cup India 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.800 and Sri Lanka, so it's about regrouping. We've got red 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.200 ball cricket over the next year, so it's back into 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.359 some other international formats and we'll see where things land. Well, 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.320 that's hardly kind of a full level commitment. I think 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.480 it did sort of indicate that he was trying to 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.280 work out where to next, and I guess part of 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:03.600 that might have been whether he was going to step 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.840 away entirely from international cricket, maybe do a home summer 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.840 something like that. Yeah, look, sorry, I was just going 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.160 to say the other thing as well, of because then 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.120 I'd see some comments from Michael absolutely putting the boot 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.519 into Kam Willimson a better strike great in the t 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:18.880 twenty world cut, So good on Michael Vaughan for that, 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.000 I guess. But yeah, look, I guess with the president 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:25.200 of Trent bolt back in twenty twenty two, it's just 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.720 no surprise that some of these guys that are kind 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.079 of living in the double worlds of being our best 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.960 players and also our most desirable players for TEA twenty 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.800 franchises and coming I guess the triple world also being 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.760 wanted by the franchises, but also coming to the end 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:45.600 of their careers and just trying to work out how 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.160 to have a foot in both camps. It's hard to 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.280 sort of deny them that I think that I think 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.240 it was Andrew Gordy maybe on Newshubs it's something like 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:55.920 get over it and get used to it. And I 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.680 think the alternate reality here is that we don't have 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.400 Kine and so I do think that generally New Zealand 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.720 cricket here have done a good job. And I think 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.880 Scott when taking him at face early and no reason 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.520 not to, you know, the basically said world cricket's changing, 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:12.440 it's changing dramatically and we need to continue to be 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.480 dynamic with our contracting situation. In other words, A bit 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:19.159 like how we take on Test cricket shit sorry, international 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.359 cricket matches. We just kind of have to take what 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.520 we're given a little bit in this front. You know, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.440 we don't have the power. New Zealand Cricket does not 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.599 have the power. Sure, I mean they could say, cool, well, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:30.960 if you're going to go and do that, Kane, we're 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:32.840 not going to have you play for us at all. Yes, 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.120 that's an option. I don't think that's better. And it's 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:40.479 a pretty funky summer with certainly bugger all crickets at 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.480 Bugger all Test cricket and zero Test cricket I think 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.560 in January, and you know, it's hard to deny Kane 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.919 an opportunity like that. Particularly. I don't know if you 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.240 had had a quick look at the numbers DC, but 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.600 those salaries in that South African T twenty or the 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.520 SA twenty league just just ballpark salaries. Harry Brook he 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.080 was on and eighty grand, Jimmy Nish two hundred and 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.359 ninety grand, Liam Livingston seven hundred and thirty seven grand, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.600 and Tristan Stubbs the highest paid player eight hundred thousand dollars. 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.320 So you know, literally Kan Limson could go over there 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.240 and get paid more than when he gets paid to 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.719 my New Zealand Cricket. It's it's a it's a it's 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.160 just the reality that our guys, as they come to 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.000 the end of their careers are going to be considering 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:21.600 their options. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.040 Yeah, and I look at a little bit of correspondent 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.200 saying this was a silly move by Kane because he's 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.080 not good enough to play IPL anymore. He's not that 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.320 attractive to IPL, and that look that might actually be true. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.960 The IPL cricket may have moved past Kane and as 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:41.160 his particular style of playing, but he's still hellishly attractive. 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.480 I would imagine two franchise leagues like the SA twenty, 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:49.680 like the IL T twenty in the UAE, because he's 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.320 a name, he's a great bloke that brings no baggage 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.000 with him, and he's almost effectively like a player coach 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.120 within some of those setups. It's scoop for the young guys. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.880 So I don't think he's I would push back on 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.000 the notion that the T twenty game has moved past them. 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.560 I think maybe the IPL has and maybe his shortcomings 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.960 have been exposed a little bit. Even T twenty eyes 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.279 but there's still certainly plenty of opportunities for him to 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.040 cash in that respect here right back in the country 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.280 this morning as it happened, and did a stand up 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.720 media at Aukland Airport and here's what he had to say. 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.919 I think everybody has a different situation and they're trying 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:33.800 to assess what it is for them and for me 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.080 and my family and at the stage my career and 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:42.440 the calendar that we have coming up, it's something exciting 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.640 and something to look forward to and something a little 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:50.680 bit different without really interfering with the international schedule. So 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:58.520 although it's turning down I suppose a central contract, it's 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.320 really no different in terms of the playing schedule and 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.520 representing New Zealand. I mean, I want to play as 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.440 long as I can. I love playing for New Zealand. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.760 I've really really enjoyed my time captaining and it's been 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.600 a privilege and an honor to do that for a 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.400 number of years. And I'm excited with what's next for 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.080 the team in terms of their leadership as well, and 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.760 I'm looking forward to being a part of that. In 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.800 terms of a time frame, it's difficult to say I 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.920 want to keep being keep doing as well as they 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.280 can keep trying to improve and play as long as 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:31.600 they can. 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.720 Yeah, look, I think that's probably what you'd expect, came 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.400 will him to say, and he came and listened to say. 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.160 And maybe once he's torn us, maybe once he once 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:42.960 he's actually torn his contract up, he might. Do you 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.880 think he might start sort of swinging from the rafters 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.320 become an incredibly amazing media or if you're just teeing 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.760 off on people left front and center and taking no prisoners, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:52.320 or do you think he's going to just keep sort 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.200 of kneting and just keeping everything out DC. 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.760 I think he still likes to play a fairly straight 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.840 back when the opportunity present itself. And look, I would 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:03.800 say that, look, this may be a positive in this 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:08.520 particular case as regards Kane Williamson's immediate future with the 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.720 black Caps. And we all I mean purists, we're purists. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.720 We want to see him played Test cricket for as 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:15.760 long as possible. We want to see him smash some 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.360 of those batting records. Well he's actually already smashed all 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.840 the New Zealand betting records. We want to put them 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.640 into areas that perhaps no one is going to get 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.040 to in our lifetime so when we're old and gray, 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:30.120 we can tell our grandkids about the magnificence of Kane Williamson. 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.319 But I do think that it's gilding the lily slightly 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:41.920 to not acknowledge that this, the widest symptoms of this 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:47.280 are troubling for New Zealand cricket and that the Super Smash, 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.880 which is our franchise T twenty League, just holds no 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.080 appeal for our best players. Maybe I'm being a little 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.760 bit hash there about it, not by much. 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:01.439 I think you are, And I think where it's getting 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.160 to as well, is that not only is it why 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.480 is it not appealing? It's because the best players aren't 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.520 playing because they are in hot demand in South Africa, 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.280 in the UAE and Pakistan and the new American League 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.200 that's going to spark up, which is going to clash 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.680 pretty much directly, and then you've got the Big Bash 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.720 pretty much either just before just after. I've got that 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.560 schedule in my brain. I know they've compacted it a 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.360 bit to sort of get out of the way of 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:29.240 other tournaments and so forth. But yeah, it's yeah, it does. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.600 I guess reiterate what a backwater the Super Smash really 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.880 is from an international cricketer's point of view. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.360 Yeah, but it also the Super Smash does make up 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.200 at quite a significant portion of what New Zealand Cricket 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.920 sells to the local broadcasters. If your TV and z 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.240 now or your Sky TV and you're looking to negotiate 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.120 the next deal with New Zealand Cricket, they're not really 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.000 in a position of strength when they get around that 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.120 table and say, hey, we've got this great T twenty 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.440 product for you that you can put on prime time 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.960 in those summer months where people are sitting around having 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.719 beers with their mates. They are going to push back 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:06.960 on that. 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.640 Now, that's right, and you know, just to remind people, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:14.040 so currently, if you're a player with a central contract 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.880 with New Zealand Cricket, you have to commit to obviously 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.240 playing the international matches pretty much, and you have to 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.679 commit to being available for the Super Smash competition. That's 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.840 kind of those are the two main criteria around availability. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.199 And yes, you're right, if you're going to have players 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:29.800 kind of we're going to have that as a rule 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.480 with a couple of asterisks, and those asterisks are your 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.280 most important players. Yeah, look, I think yeah, that's right. 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.640 One thing I would say is I have absolutely no 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.760 doubt that when Williamson talks about wanting to play for 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.760 New Zealand and his I guess his patriotic calling and 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.280 how much he loves playing for the team, that does 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.079 ring true with him. You know, he could one hundred 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.040 percent have been pulling up stumps here or saying, hey, 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.360 I'm going to play the Test matches against England and 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:02.880 I'm going to go into Christmas and I'm going to 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:04.200 put my feet up and I'm just going to travel 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.360 the world with my little kids and my English wife 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.480 and kind of you know, never play for New Zealand again, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.600 and I don't think anyone would be wouldn't be sad, 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.360 but you'd go, you know what, he's done a pretty 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:18.600 bloody good shift. But yeah, interesting, very very interesting times 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:23.040 for cricket in New Zealand and New Zealand cricket for sure. 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.720 Well, hey, if this is the last time came Williams 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.559 and ever captains this country, and it's looking more and 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.320 more likely, it's a non negotiable. You cannot kept in 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.320 your country if you're not on a central contract. You know, 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.800 what's his legacy, what's the kind of what's his premature 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.480 that he leaves on New Zealand cricket as a skipper. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.040 And before you say that, I'm just going to run 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.400 through a few facts and figures for you. And tests 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.000 he kept him forty times for twenty two wins as 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.079 a veteran as a captain, the average fifty seven point 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.360 four to three, which is higher significantly higher than his 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.600 overall average eleven hundreds. As a captain, he kept him 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.360 the second most tests after flem and had the second 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.760 best winning percentage of those who are captained at least 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.120 ten tests, behind the one and only Tim Salvey who's 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.400 captained exactly ten tests. ODI Eyes he kept in ninety 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:15.520 one times for forty six wins. He averaged fifty one 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.000 point three five as a batting captain and ODI eyes, 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.320 which again is significantly higher than his overall average seven hundred, 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.000 second most ODI Eyes captain behind Flemm. Somewhat surprisingly, this 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.280 actually six best winning percentage of a captain with those 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.200 who are at least ten games skippered behind Tom Lathan, 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:37.040 Brenda McCallum, Daniel Vittori, which was surprised about actually Jeff 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.800 Howth and John Wright, which was even more surprised about 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.720 T twenty is captain seventy five times fifty percent plus 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.920 winning record just over fifty percent. I think most T 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.080 twenty eyes captained obviously averaged thirty three point six moore 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.800 with the bat with sixteen fifties only a tiny bit 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.600 higher average with the bat as a captain. Those are 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.880 the raw numbers, but more generally, more holistically, how do 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.040 you view him as captain across those formats? 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.240 Well, I guess that's the thing. Is he going to 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.520 go down in time as probably our greatest when you 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.280 look at some of the results that the team has 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.000 gained with him, either as a player or as a 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.880 captain across all formats. He has been one of those 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.160 constant presences over the last fifteen twenty years. Whatever you 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:31.640 just said, so an extraordinary batsman, a fantastic captain across 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.520 all formats, and I guess a leader of men in 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.240 a very kind of came Williamson way, just that classic 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.800 way that we've talked about before. New Zealanders love it. Sure, 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.920 Brendan McCullum was did it in a different way. But 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:48.160 Kaine Williamson as your stoic follow me kind of a 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.959 guy I've got this, I never panic acknowledge you very 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.880 respectful of the opposition, all of those sorts of things. 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.280 You know, I think he's going to be looked back 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.040 upon it. People are going to get well, he's literally 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.240 already talked about us the one of the all time greats, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.600 potentially our greatest cricketer of all time. Even anytime you're 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.160 being mentioned in the same breath as Sir Richard Hadley, 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.560 you know, you're starting to be in quite a pantheon 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.280 of New Zealand cricket. And I think, you know, I 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.200 guess I've kind of touched on it there, but I 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.920 think that the way that he's played the game, you know, 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.800 I think the guys that have played with him, I 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.760 think he's managed to keep the team together potentially, you know, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.440 after Brendan McCullum, you could have seen things splinter and fragment, 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.120 but the fact that Kane was there and we call 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:32.520 him steady the ship, and you know, it's steadying that 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.480 ship of the black Cats. In this sense, he's the 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.840 kind of person that players stay around to play with 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.400 a because he'll probably help you win the games. But 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.320 he's obviously just one of those guys that people get 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.040 out onto the field for and play for. He brings 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.120 them together not Yeah, so I think that that piece 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:49.960 around the way that he's played the game, and the 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.200 other thing is as well. And you know, I don't 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.240 get heaps of stock on this, but you do get 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.040 the sense that he's the kind of person that gets 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.200 on with basically every single player in international cricket, which 0:14:59.240 --> 0:14:59.960 is quite extraordin. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.840 Yeah, I find it almost I find it quite tricky 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.520 to describe his legacy as a skipper a skipper because 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.960 following the black Caps during the Brendan McCallum Captaincy era, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:17.360 it was almost like a visceral experience, not so much 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:23.160 with Cain Williamson, but it was kind of better. And 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.440 I'm not quite sure why. I really struggled to articulate 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.240 why I enjoyed watching the black Caps under Kane Williamson, 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.320 possibly more than I did it under Brenda McCallum. Yet 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.520 Brendan mcallum, it was just such a seat of the 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.160 pants ride. It was bastic, Yeah, And it was all 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:44.160 those cliches like tumbling into advertizing hoardings to save a 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.000 meaningless one in this kind of thing, and it was 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.880 great fun. But it was almost like he set them 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.000 up and then came Williamson. Just it was this ultra 0:15:54.160 --> 0:16:00.320 smooth transition. Maybe we drifted back into more percentage style 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.080 of cricket. Not I wouldn't go so far as to 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.400 say we went back to the Daniel Vittori very kind 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:11.120 of statistical, data heavy percentage style of cricket. But there 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.440 was something that was there was a bit of a 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:18.160 sparkle missing, and yet the way they went about it 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.920 was just so pristine that I thoroughly enjoyed it. I 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.880 followed them around for a summer as a reporter while 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:26.680 I was still at the Herald. It was the summer 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.400 they qualified for the World Test Championship. Unfortunately I didn't 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.640 get to go to Southampton and watch the crown and glory, 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.680 but I covered all those tests where they qualified and 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.960 it was the most fun I've had covering cricket. And 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.040 yet I'm not quite sure why, and I've struggled to 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.280 articulate it, and that will always be my I guess 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.920 as paradox I have with Caan Williamson, but I think 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.080 he is New Zealand's greatest cricketer. And if you want 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.560 to argue, the toss was Sir Richard Hadley, I'm happy. 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.280 I'm happy for you to do that because Paddles was 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:06.280 a legendary and groundbreaking and barrier breaking in terms of 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:10.760 giving New Zealand cricket that respectability that never had. I 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.960 just think came on Us has probably done more for 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:18.640 the game overall. But yeah, it's it's sad, but I'm 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.320 glad we've got them as a player in a world 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.879 class batter. But it sounds like another three to four years. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.720 Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll take every little piece of that 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.600 hairy little man from Totalinger that we can get over 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.000 the next few years. Hey, we're going to take a 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.719 quick break the see and then we'll come back and 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.960 we'll go into the entrails of the World T twenty 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:45.040 campaign and New Zealand's warm down games. Welcome back to 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.080 the BYC and DC. I think you've described it as 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.320 New Zealand peaking perfectly to thrash Uganda and Papa New Guinea, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.800 giving those a cricketing superpowers a jolly good hiding and 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.520 teaching those basards to lesson. Is that your sort of 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:00.000 take on things? 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.280 Yeah, yeah, I thought they'd give They plan this campaign perfectly, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:07.040 really didn't they They knew they were underdone getting the air, 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.399 but it didn't bother them one little bit because by 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.560 the time they got to it was Uganda first, wasn't it. 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.320 They were ready to put them to the sword, dismissing 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.920 Uganda for forty and then chasing it down with their 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.800 loss of just one wicket in five point two overs. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:29.560 They followed that up again by inserting Papua New Guinea 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.720 and dismissing them for seventy eight and then chasing it 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.439 down with the loss of three wickets. Actually, and it 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.119 took them a wee while twelve point two overs to 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.679 win by seven wickets. We had a man on the 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.120 ground over there actually pulled. Do you want to read 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.360 what he has to say about this? Yeah? 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.320 Yeah, we did, We did. Yeah, it's an interesting little 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.920 piece of correspondence. Well, that all went about as well 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:52.879 as expected. But I have to get this off my chest. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.680 What a dick move by caning to bowl first last night. 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.160 He could have at least let the guy smash two 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.119 hundred against the minnows and give the new Deellan and 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.320 who traveled. There's something to cheer about. I love Cane, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.440 but it was like they just wanted to get home. 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.440 Early after the game, the Augaendon players came over and 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.000 acknowledged their fans who traveled halfway around the world from 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.720 Africa to support them. We got away from Lovely Trinity anyway, 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.720 I'm off the Lucia now for the West Indies versus 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.639 Afghanistan game, which I thought would decide our place in 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.400 the quarters. I'm a West Indies fan now looking forward 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.879 to the next podcast. It's from Mark. Cheers Mark and 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.880 safe travels. Mate tough over there. 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.320 And we also received this from Matt. He said, Hey, guys, 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.679 is watching our guys sit on the sideline on the 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.720 IPL and then playing poorly when they do play get 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.760 kind of humiliating for Black Cat fans. It was okay, 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.080 then we would perform well on tests and World Caps. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.760 I prove everyone wrong. Do these guys think they're not 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.960 preparing well and getting thrashed at the World Cup will 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:52.480 earn them lucrative T twenty contracts first really negative message 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.680 in a long time from Matt, So there is a 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:02.120 little bit of angst. Yeah, after all Matt described came 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.040 Dick move. Perhaps he's one that's not as upseid as 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.399 a number of people are. That he's tuning down the 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.960 Captain sy look. I don't know if we need to 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.520 scavenger around in the intrails of that campaign much more 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.159 than you already had, other than say it did not 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:19.880 go well. Paul. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.040 Yeah, I think that's fair. Maybe I did hypothesize that 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.119 perhaps the players were a bit worried about cricket violence 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.360 corner being committed by those New Zealand fans who traveled 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.879 ten thousand miles to be at that game. And yeah, 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:36.719 I do wonder if the players just wanted to get 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:38.199 the hell out of there. I'm not really defending it, 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:42.000 more of an explanation really. I guess the most interesting 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.360 things about that game were, and I think Cole Mill 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.960 said this actually on the Agenda podcast, it's a weird 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:49.600 T twenty game when the thing that you're talking about 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.320 the most of twenty four dot palls, which is of 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.040 course what Luckie Ferguson brought to the party, alongside the 0:20:55.280 --> 0:21:00.000 very very valuable wickets of course of Vala, Amini and Soper. 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.560 So's so fair. I love that. 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.640 I guess the other thing that caught my eye thin 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.399