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Speaker 1: Welcome to the BAC podcast, coming here from the Export

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Speaker 1: Beer Garden studio in the midst of another I think

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Speaker 1: gloom laden and fascinating week in recent New Zealand cricket history.

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Speaker 1: This week we reflect on what the announcement from New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Cricket about Steady the Ship's future plans. We grind

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Speaker 1: some gears about the warm down matches against the Uganda

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Speaker 1: Cricket Cranes and the Papa New Guinea Baron Mundy's and

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Speaker 1: Davey Dumdum provides more incontrovertible evidence that he's a massive punisher.

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Speaker 1: I'm Paul Ford, godfather of the Big Brigade, and I'm

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Speaker 1: joined by a master of the New Zealand Cricket scoop

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Speaker 1: this week, Dylan Pleaver Our Plenty Dente of the substack

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Speaker 1: sports newsletter The Bounce DC. How are your optimism levels

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Speaker 1: this week? Mate?

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Speaker 2: Flatlining? It's been an interesting week actually, particularly for myself.

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Speaker 2: As you mentioned, I was lucky enough to get a

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Speaker 2: tip that King Williams and was about to take up

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Speaker 2: the option well turned down the option of a central

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Speaker 2: contract in favor of a casual pain contract. I've sort

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Speaker 2: of chicily put it in here that he's literally torn

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Speaker 2: up his contract and thrown it in the face of

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Speaker 2: New Zealand CEO and friend of the BYC Scott Weenink

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Speaker 2: Will New Zealand Cricket Players Association CAPO di Caappily. Heath

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Speaker 2: Mills laughs maniacally from his bolt hole in the Hanua Rangers,

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Speaker 2: which is a he.

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Speaker 1: Does have a he does have a bit of a

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Speaker 1: Marlin Brando feel about him sometimes, Heath Mills, and I

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Speaker 1: mean that in a loving and respectful way.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, So it is interesting. And look I break

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Speaker 2: the story that he is going to take up a

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Speaker 2: casual contract. There is all sorts of mechanics around it

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Speaker 2: that make this reasonably unique. The fact that New Zealand

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Speaker 2: doesn't have international cricket, doesn't have tests scheduled for that

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Speaker 2: generary win. He's almost certainly got an option to go

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Speaker 2: and play in South Africa. And look, if you take

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Speaker 2: it at face value, he is committing it seems, at

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Speaker 2: least for the medium to long term to New Zealand cricket.

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Speaker 2: So I guess I write the news story. So I'm

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Speaker 2: going to throw the analysis to you, Paul, and then

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Speaker 2: what does it all mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean it was I

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Speaker 1: guess there was sort of some bread crumbs that went

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Speaker 1: there after the pupa New Guinea game where he got

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Speaker 1: asked about what he was going to do and what

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Speaker 1: were his plans after the early exit, and his words were,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, which is always that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing that a veteran journalist such as yourself may may

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Speaker 1: have clocked. He did say, there's a bit of time

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Speaker 1: between now and the twenty twenty six World Cup India

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Speaker 1: and Sri Lanka, so it's about regrouping. We've got red

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Speaker 1: ball cricket over the next year, so it's back into

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Speaker 1: some other international formats and we'll see where things land. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's hardly kind of a full level commitment. I think

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Speaker 1: it did sort of indicate that he was trying to

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Speaker 1: work out where to next, and I guess part of

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Speaker 1: that might have been whether he was going to step

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Speaker 1: away entirely from international cricket, maybe do a home summer

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Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, look, sorry, I was just going

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Speaker 1: to say the other thing as well, of because then

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Speaker 1: I'd see some comments from Michael absolutely putting the boot

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Speaker 1: into Kam Willimson a better strike great in the t

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Speaker 1: twenty world cut, So good on Michael Vaughan for that,

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Speaker 1: I guess. But yeah, look, I guess with the president

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Speaker 1: of Trent bolt back in twenty twenty two, it's just

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Speaker 1: no surprise that some of these guys that are kind

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Speaker 1: of living in the double worlds of being our best

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Speaker 1: players and also our most desirable players for TEA twenty

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Speaker 1: franchises and coming I guess the triple world also being

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Speaker 1: wanted by the franchises, but also coming to the end

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Speaker 1: of their careers and just trying to work out how

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Speaker 1: to have a foot in both camps. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: sort of deny them that I think that I think

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Speaker 1: it was Andrew Gordy maybe on Newshubs it's something like

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Speaker 1: get over it and get used to it. And I

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Speaker 1: think the alternate reality here is that we don't have

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Speaker 1: Kine and so I do think that generally New Zealand

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Speaker 1: cricket here have done a good job. And I think

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Speaker 1: Scott when taking him at face early and no reason

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Speaker 1: not to, you know, the basically said world cricket's changing,

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Speaker 1: it's changing dramatically and we need to continue to be

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Speaker 1: dynamic with our contracting situation. In other words, A bit

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Speaker 1: like how we take on Test cricket shit sorry, international

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Speaker 1: cricket matches. We just kind of have to take what

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Speaker 1: we're given a little bit in this front. You know,

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Speaker 1: we don't have the power. New Zealand Cricket does not

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Speaker 1: have the power. Sure, I mean they could say, cool, well,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to go and do that, Kane, we're

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Speaker 1: not going to have you play for us at all. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's an option. I don't think that's better. And it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty funky summer with certainly bugger all crickets at

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Speaker 1: Bugger all Test cricket and zero Test cricket I think

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Speaker 1: in January, and you know, it's hard to deny Kane

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Speaker 1: an opportunity like that. Particularly. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: had had a quick look at the numbers DC, but

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Speaker 1: those salaries in that South African T twenty or the

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Speaker 1: SA twenty league just just ballpark salaries. Harry Brook he

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Speaker 1: was on and eighty grand, Jimmy Nish two hundred and

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Speaker 1: ninety grand, Liam Livingston seven hundred and thirty seven grand,

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Speaker 1: and Tristan Stubbs the highest paid player eight hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So you know, literally Kan Limson could go over there

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Speaker 1: and get paid more than when he gets paid to

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Speaker 1: my New Zealand Cricket. It's it's a it's a it's

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Speaker 1: just the reality that our guys, as they come to

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Speaker 1: the end of their careers are going to be considering

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Speaker 1: their options.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I look at a little bit of correspondent

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Speaker 2: saying this was a silly move by Kane because he's

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Speaker 2: not good enough to play IPL anymore. He's not that

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Speaker 2: attractive to IPL, and that look that might actually be true.

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Speaker 2: The IPL cricket may have moved past Kane and as

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Speaker 2: his particular style of playing, but he's still hellishly attractive.

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Speaker 2: I would imagine two franchise leagues like the SA twenty,

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Speaker 2: like the IL T twenty in the UAE, because he's

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Speaker 2: a name, he's a great bloke that brings no baggage

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Speaker 2: with him, and he's almost effectively like a player coach

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Speaker 2: within some of those setups. It's scoop for the young guys.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think he's I would push back on

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Speaker 2: the notion that the T twenty game has moved past them.

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Speaker 2: I think maybe the IPL has and maybe his shortcomings

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Speaker 2: have been exposed a little bit. Even T twenty eyes

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Speaker 2: but there's still certainly plenty of opportunities for him to

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Speaker 2: cash in that respect here right back in the country

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Speaker 2: this morning as it happened, and did a stand up

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Speaker 2: media at Aukland Airport and here's what he had to say.

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Speaker 3: I think everybody has a different situation and they're trying

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Speaker 3: to assess what it is for them and for me

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Speaker 3: and my family and at the stage my career and

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Speaker 3: the calendar that we have coming up, it's something exciting

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Speaker 3: and something to look forward to and something a little

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Speaker 3: bit different without really interfering with the international schedule. So

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Speaker 3: although it's turning down I suppose a central contract, it's

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Speaker 3: really no different in terms of the playing schedule and

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Speaker 3: representing New Zealand. I mean, I want to play as

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Speaker 3: long as I can. I love playing for New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: I've really really enjoyed my time captaining and it's been

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Speaker 3: a privilege and an honor to do that for a

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Speaker 3: number of years. And I'm excited with what's next for

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Speaker 3: the team in terms of their leadership as well, and

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Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to being a part of that. In

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Speaker 3: terms of a time frame, it's difficult to say I

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Speaker 3: want to keep being keep doing as well as they

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Speaker 3: can keep trying to improve and play as long as

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Speaker 3: they can.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think that's probably what you'd expect, came

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Speaker 2: will him to say, and he came and listened to say.

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Speaker 1: And maybe once he's torn us, maybe once he once

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Speaker 1: he's actually torn his contract up, he might. Do you

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Speaker 1: think he might start sort of swinging from the rafters

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Speaker 1: become an incredibly amazing media or if you're just teeing

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Speaker 1: off on people left front and center and taking no prisoners,

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Speaker 1: or do you think he's going to just keep sort

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Speaker 1: of kneting and just keeping everything out DC.

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Speaker 2: I think he still likes to play a fairly straight

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Speaker 2: back when the opportunity present itself. And look, I would

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Speaker 2: say that, look, this may be a positive in this

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Speaker 2: particular case as regards Kane Williamson's immediate future with the

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Speaker 2: black Caps. And we all I mean purists, we're purists.

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Speaker 2: We want to see him played Test cricket for as

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Speaker 2: long as possible. We want to see him smash some

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Speaker 2: of those batting records. Well he's actually already smashed all

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Speaker 2: the New Zealand betting records. We want to put them

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Speaker 2: into areas that perhaps no one is going to get

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Speaker 2: to in our lifetime so when we're old and gray,

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Speaker 2: we can tell our grandkids about the magnificence of Kane Williamson.

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Speaker 2: But I do think that it's gilding the lily slightly

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Speaker 2: to not acknowledge that this, the widest symptoms of this

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Speaker 2: are troubling for New Zealand cricket and that the Super Smash,

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Speaker 2: which is our franchise T twenty League, just holds no

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Speaker 2: appeal for our best players. Maybe I'm being a little

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Speaker 2: bit hash there about it, not by much.

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Speaker 1: I think you are, And I think where it's getting

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Speaker 1: to as well, is that not only is it why

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Speaker 1: is it not appealing? It's because the best players aren't

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Speaker 1: playing because they are in hot demand in South Africa,

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Speaker 1: in the UAE and Pakistan and the new American League

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Speaker 1: that's going to spark up, which is going to clash

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Speaker 1: pretty much directly, and then you've got the Big Bash

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Speaker 1: pretty much either just before just after. I've got that

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Speaker 1: schedule in my brain. I know they've compacted it a

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Speaker 1: bit to sort of get out of the way of

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Speaker 1: other tournaments and so forth. But yeah, it's yeah, it does.

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Speaker 1: I guess reiterate what a backwater the Super Smash really

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Speaker 1: is from an international cricketer's point of view.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it also the Super Smash does make up

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Speaker 2: at quite a significant portion of what New Zealand Cricket

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Speaker 2: sells to the local broadcasters. If your TV and z

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Speaker 2: now or your Sky TV and you're looking to negotiate

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Speaker 2: the next deal with New Zealand Cricket, they're not really

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Speaker 2: in a position of strength when they get around that

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Speaker 2: table and say, hey, we've got this great T twenty

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Speaker 2: product for you that you can put on prime time

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Speaker 2: in those summer months where people are sitting around having

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Speaker 2: beers with their mates. They are going to push back

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Speaker 2: on that.

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Speaker 1: Now, that's right, and you know, just to remind people,

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Speaker 1: so currently, if you're a player with a central contract

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Speaker 1: with New Zealand Cricket, you have to commit to obviously

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Speaker 1: playing the international matches pretty much, and you have to

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Speaker 1: commit to being available for the Super Smash competition. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of those are the two main criteria around availability.

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Speaker 1: And yes, you're right, if you're going to have players

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Speaker 1: kind of we're going to have that as a rule

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Speaker 1: with a couple of asterisks, and those asterisks are your

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Speaker 1: most important players. Yeah, look, I think yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: One thing I would say is I have absolutely no

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Speaker 1: doubt that when Williamson talks about wanting to play for

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Speaker 1: New Zealand and his I guess his patriotic calling and

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Speaker 1: how much he loves playing for the team, that does

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Speaker 1: ring true with him. You know, he could one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent have been pulling up stumps here or saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to play the Test matches against England and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go into Christmas and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: put my feet up and I'm just going to travel

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Speaker 1: the world with my little kids and my English wife

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Speaker 1: and kind of you know, never play for New Zealand again,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think anyone would be wouldn't be sad,

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Speaker 1: but you'd go, you know what, he's done a pretty

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Speaker 1: bloody good shift. But yeah, interesting, very very interesting times

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Speaker 1: for cricket in New Zealand and New Zealand cricket for sure.

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Speaker 2: Well, hey, if this is the last time came Williams

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Speaker 2: and ever captains this country, and it's looking more and

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Speaker 2: more likely, it's a non negotiable. You cannot kept in

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Speaker 2: your country if you're not on a central contract. You know,

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Speaker 2: what's his legacy, what's the kind of what's his premature

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Speaker 2: that he leaves on New Zealand cricket as a skipper.

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Speaker 2: And before you say that, I'm just going to run

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Speaker 2: through a few facts and figures for you. And tests

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Speaker 2: he kept him forty times for twenty two wins as

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Speaker 2: a veteran as a captain, the average fifty seven point

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Speaker 2: four to three, which is higher significantly higher than his

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Speaker 2: overall average eleven hundreds. As a captain, he kept him

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Speaker 2: the second most tests after flem and had the second

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Speaker 2: best winning percentage of those who are captained at least

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Speaker 2: ten tests, behind the one and only Tim Salvey who's

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Speaker 2: captained exactly ten tests. ODI Eyes he kept in ninety

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Speaker 2: one times for forty six wins. He averaged fifty one

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Speaker 2: point three five as a batting captain and ODI eyes,

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Speaker 2: which again is significantly higher than his overall average seven hundred,

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Speaker 2: second most ODI Eyes captain behind Flemm. Somewhat surprisingly, this

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Speaker 2: actually six best winning percentage of a captain with those

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Speaker 2: who are at least ten games skippered behind Tom Lathan,

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Speaker 2: Brenda McCallum, Daniel Vittori, which was surprised about actually Jeff

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Speaker 2: Howth and John Wright, which was even more surprised about

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Speaker 2: T twenty is captain seventy five times fifty percent plus

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Speaker 2: winning record just over fifty percent. I think most T

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Speaker 2: twenty eyes captained obviously averaged thirty three point six moore

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Speaker 2: with the bat with sixteen fifties only a tiny bit

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Speaker 2: higher average with the bat as a captain. Those are

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Speaker 2: the raw numbers, but more generally, more holistically, how do

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Speaker 2: you view him as captain across those formats?

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's the thing. Is he going to

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Speaker 1: go down in time as probably our greatest when you

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Speaker 1: look at some of the results that the team has

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Speaker 1: gained with him, either as a player or as a

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Speaker 1: captain across all formats. He has been one of those

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Speaker 1: constant presences over the last fifteen twenty years. Whatever you

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Speaker 1: just said, so an extraordinary batsman, a fantastic captain across

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Speaker 1: all formats, and I guess a leader of men in

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Speaker 1: a very kind of came Williamson way, just that classic

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Speaker 1: way that we've talked about before. New Zealanders love it. Sure,

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Speaker 1: Brendan McCullum was did it in a different way. But

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Speaker 1: Kaine Williamson as your stoic follow me kind of a

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Speaker 1: guy I've got this, I never panic acknowledge you very

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Speaker 1: respectful of the opposition, all of those sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think he's going to be looked back

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Speaker 1: upon it. People are going to get well, he's literally

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Speaker 1: already talked about us the one of the all time greats,

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Speaker 1: potentially our greatest cricketer of all time. Even anytime you're

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Speaker 1: being mentioned in the same breath as Sir Richard Hadley,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're starting to be in quite a pantheon

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Speaker 1: of New Zealand cricket. And I think, you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess I've kind of touched on it there, but I

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Speaker 1: think that the way that he's played the game, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think the guys that have played with him, I

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Speaker 1: think he's managed to keep the team together potentially, you know,

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Speaker 1: after Brendan McCullum, you could have seen things splinter and fragment,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that Kane was there and we call

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Speaker 1: him steady the ship, and you know, it's steadying that

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Speaker 1: ship of the black Cats. In this sense, he's the

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Speaker 1: kind of person that players stay around to play with

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Speaker 1: a because he'll probably help you win the games. But

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Speaker 1: he's obviously just one of those guys that people get

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Speaker 1: out onto the field for and play for. He brings

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Speaker 1: them together not Yeah, so I think that that piece

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Speaker 1: around the way that he's played the game, and the

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Speaker 1: other thing is as well. And you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: get heaps of stock on this, but you do get

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Speaker 1: the sense that he's the kind of person that gets

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Speaker 1: on with basically every single player in international cricket, which

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Speaker 1: is quite extraordin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I find it almost I find it quite tricky

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Speaker 2: to describe his legacy as a skipper a skipper because

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Speaker 2: following the black Caps during the Brendan McCallum Captaincy era,

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Speaker 2: it was almost like a visceral experience, not so much

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Speaker 2: with Cain Williamson, but it was kind of better. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure why. I really struggled to articulate

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Speaker 2: why I enjoyed watching the black Caps under Kane Williamson,

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Speaker 2: possibly more than I did it under Brenda McCallum. Yet

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Speaker 2: Brendan mcallum, it was just such a seat of the

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Speaker 2: pants ride. It was bastic, Yeah, And it was all

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Speaker 2: those cliches like tumbling into advertizing hoardings to save a

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Speaker 2: meaningless one in this kind of thing, and it was

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Speaker 2: great fun. But it was almost like he set them

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Speaker 2: up and then came Williamson. Just it was this ultra

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Speaker 2: smooth transition. Maybe we drifted back into more percentage style

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Speaker 2: of cricket. Not I wouldn't go so far as to

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Speaker 2: say we went back to the Daniel Vittori very kind

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Speaker 2: of statistical, data heavy percentage style of cricket. But there

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Speaker 2: was something that was there was a bit of a

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Speaker 2: sparkle missing, and yet the way they went about it

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Speaker 2: was just so pristine that I thoroughly enjoyed it. I

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Speaker 2: followed them around for a summer as a reporter while

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Speaker 2: I was still at the Herald. It was the summer

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Speaker 2: they qualified for the World Test Championship. Unfortunately I didn't

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Speaker 2: get to go to Southampton and watch the crown and glory,

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Speaker 2: but I covered all those tests where they qualified and

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Speaker 2: it was the most fun I've had covering cricket. And

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Speaker 2: yet I'm not quite sure why, and I've struggled to

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Speaker 2: articulate it, and that will always be my I guess

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Speaker 2: as paradox I have with Caan Williamson, but I think

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Speaker 2: he is New Zealand's greatest cricketer. And if you want

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Speaker 2: to argue, the toss was Sir Richard Hadley, I'm happy.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy for you to do that because Paddles was

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Speaker 2: a legendary and groundbreaking and barrier breaking in terms of

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Speaker 2: giving New Zealand cricket that respectability that never had. I

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Speaker 2: just think came on Us has probably done more for

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Speaker 2: the game overall. But yeah, it's it's sad, but I'm

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Speaker 2: glad we've got them as a player in a world

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Speaker 2: class batter. But it sounds like another three to four years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll take every little piece of that

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Speaker 1: hairy little man from Totalinger that we can get over

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Speaker 1: the next few years. Hey, we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break the see and then we'll come back and

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Speaker 1: we'll go into the entrails of the World T twenty

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Speaker 1: campaign and New Zealand's warm down games. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the BYC and DC. I think you've described it as

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Speaker 1: New Zealand peaking perfectly to thrash Uganda and Papa New Guinea,

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Speaker 1: giving those a cricketing superpowers a jolly good hiding and

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Speaker 1: teaching those basards to lesson. Is that your sort of

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Speaker 1: take on things?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I thought they'd give They plan this campaign perfectly,

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Speaker 2: really didn't they They knew they were underdone getting the air,

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Speaker 2: but it didn't bother them one little bit because by

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Speaker 2: the time they got to it was Uganda first, wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: They were ready to put them to the sword, dismissing

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Speaker 2: Uganda for forty and then chasing it down with their

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Speaker 2: loss of just one wicket in five point two overs.

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Speaker 2: They followed that up again by inserting Papua New Guinea

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Speaker 2: and dismissing them for seventy eight and then chasing it

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Speaker 2: down with the loss of three wickets. Actually, and it

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Speaker 2: took them a wee while twelve point two overs to

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Speaker 2: win by seven wickets. We had a man on the

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Speaker 2: ground over there actually pulled. Do you want to read

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Speaker 2: what he has to say about this? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we did, We did. Yeah, it's an interesting little

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Speaker 1: piece of correspondence. Well, that all went about as well

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Speaker 1: as expected. But I have to get this off my chest.

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Speaker 1: What a dick move by caning to bowl first last night.

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Speaker 1: He could have at least let the guy smash two

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Speaker 1: hundred against the minnows and give the new Deellan and

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Speaker 1: who traveled. There's something to cheer about. I love Cane,

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Speaker 1: but it was like they just wanted to get home.

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Speaker 1: Early after the game, the Augaendon players came over and

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Speaker 1: acknowledged their fans who traveled halfway around the world from

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Speaker 1: Africa to support them. We got away from Lovely Trinity anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm off the Lucia now for the West Indies versus

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan game, which I thought would decide our place in

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Speaker 1: the quarters. I'm a West Indies fan now looking forward

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Speaker 1: to the next podcast. It's from Mark. Cheers Mark and

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Speaker 1: safe travels. Mate tough over there.

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Speaker 2: And we also received this from Matt. He said, Hey, guys,

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Speaker 2: is watching our guys sit on the sideline on the

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Speaker 2: IPL and then playing poorly when they do play get

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Speaker 2: kind of humiliating for Black Cat fans. It was okay,

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Speaker 2: then we would perform well on tests and World Caps.

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Speaker 2: I prove everyone wrong. Do these guys think they're not

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Speaker 2: preparing well and getting thrashed at the World Cup will

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Speaker 2: earn them lucrative T twenty contracts first really negative message

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Speaker 2: in a long time from Matt, So there is a

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Speaker 2: little bit of angst. Yeah, after all Matt described came

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Speaker 2: Dick move. Perhaps he's one that's not as upseid as

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Speaker 2: a number of people are. That he's tuning down the

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Speaker 2: Captain sy look. I don't know if we need to

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Speaker 2: scavenger around in the intrails of that campaign much more

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Speaker 2: than you already had, other than say it did not

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Speaker 2: go well. Paul.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair. Maybe I did hypothesize that

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Speaker 1: perhaps the players were a bit worried about cricket violence

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Speaker 1: corner being committed by those New Zealand fans who traveled

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Speaker 1: ten thousand miles to be at that game. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do wonder if the players just wanted to get

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Speaker 1: the hell out of there. I'm not really defending it,

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Speaker 1: more of an explanation really. I guess the most interesting

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Speaker 1: things about that game were, and I think Cole Mill

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Speaker 1: said this actually on the Agenda podcast, it's a weird

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Speaker 1: T twenty game when the thing that you're talking about

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Speaker 1: the most of twenty four dot palls, which is of

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Speaker 1: course what Luckie Ferguson brought to the party, alongside the

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Speaker 1: very very valuable wickets of course of Vala, Amini and Soper.

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Speaker 2: So's so fair. I love that.

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Speaker 1: I guess the other thing that caught my eye thin

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Speaker 1: Allen got a couple. I think it gets again a

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Speaker 1: bit failed again against a Papa New Guinea. He has

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Speaker 1: had a tough tough time and yeah, look nice soy

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Speaker 1: to finally get a game. That's the other thing that

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Speaker 1: caught my eye. He would have had a very frustrating

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks over there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should probably talk about Lucky a little bit actually,

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Speaker 2: because and just to go to max point one more time,

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Speaker 2: I think we would be more patronizing if you win

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Speaker 2: the tis on clearly a bowl first wicket and then

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Speaker 2: just have a bat for ships and giggles. I don't

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Speaker 2: think cricket quite works like that. So I will defend

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Speaker 2: Kane and this decision to bowl first, although if I

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Speaker 2: was at the ground and a travel that far, I

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Speaker 2: would have also been mortified, So I think you can

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Speaker 2: both be right on this occasion.

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Speaker 1: We're probably also slightly surprised that New Zealand did actually

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Speaker 1: read the conditions correctly in the substance and managed to

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Speaker 1: get the job done after making the right decision.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but Lucky for over his four maidens three for

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Speaker 2: naught is extraordinary, and he backs it up also with

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Speaker 2: the news that he is to decline his national contract.

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Speaker 2: He won't be given the kind of sweetheart deal Kane

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Speaker 2: is getting and I think there's fine. I think that's

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Speaker 2: fair enough. I think Lucky probably understands it's fair enough. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: thoughts on Lockey's decision, and I guess his future because

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Speaker 2: he is still equality bowler to twenty high level.

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Speaker 1: I was just trying to work that out this then

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you can clarify this for me. So Lockie

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Speaker 1: Ferguson has declined a central contract, which means that does

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Speaker 1: that mean that he is no longer available for New

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00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: Zealand for white ball games or is he running a

433
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: sort of a Trent Bolt scenario where he can kind

434
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: of or a Jimmy Nishan type scenario where he's freelancing

435
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: and available to play and will be picked. So he's

436
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: available to play and can be picked. I guess that's

437
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 1: my question.

438
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he can still be picked. But the difference, I

439
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 2: guess between getting right into the weeds of contracts here.

440
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 2: But I guess the difference is if you're on a

441
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: central contract, you get a retainer for the year and

442
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 2: then you get your match fees on top of that.

443
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: Kaine has moved onto a casual contract, so when he

444
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: is available for New Zealand, when he's in camp with

445
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: New Zealand, he will be paid a retainer for that

446
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: time as well as his match fees. Lucky Ferguson and

447
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: I believe in a mill might be another one who

448
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: turns down a central contract when they play for New

449
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: Zealand they are playing for match FEESH.

450
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: Gotcha, that's a great clarification. I guess the other point

451
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: that has been made and maybe applied inconsistently or on

452
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,479
Speaker 1: a needs must basis, but is that you would expect

453
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: that centrally contracted players will be preferred primarily ahead of

454
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: casual players and uncontracted players. So that would you know,

455
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: Lockeye's move would would probably be good news if you

456
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: want to put it that way, for the likes of

457
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: will I Rourke. Ben says, those guys that are kind

458
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: of fringe selections at the moment and when all the

459
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: big dogs are back, they're not quite breaking that that

460
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: that to eleven.

461
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, So those guys that are hovering around sort of

462
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: twenty one to twenty five on the ranking list that

463
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: just miss out on the central contracts and they would

464
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: then be bumped down to the top domestic contracts which

465
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 2: really only contract for six months and I don't know

466
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: who is around that twenty one to twenty five mark

467
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 2: that you are probably talking about your O'Rourke's And no,

468
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: actually Orock will be well up the list now because

469
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 2: he's shun so.

470
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: It's got ever been a Nathan Smith or something like that, Nathan.

471
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: Smith as sears, maybe even a Henry Nichols who's really

472
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: only considered for ODI and tests and he's been dropped

473
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: from the test team. He's probably hovering around that twenty

474
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 2: twenty one level now, So that those sort of guys

475
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: might be having it a couple more decide to hand

476
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 2: in their contracts and because we shouldn't make an idea

477
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: that they still are desirable, I think for the bulk

478
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: of cricketers in New Zealand, as central contractor is very desirable.

479
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: It's yeah, well that's it's a six fo sum, isn't it.

480
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: So you know, if you're going to turn down that contract,

481
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: you've either got to be backing yourself that you're going

482
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: to be doing well in a profession as a professional

483
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: cricketer in other parts of the world, or you've got

484
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: a really good day job with heaps of annual le

485
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, good luck with either of those two things

486
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: that's are pretty both are pretty niche arrangements. I guess

487
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: the other thing that we might see in terms of

488
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: those contract lists is we might get a little taste

489
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: of how the selectors are seeing New Zealand's needs for

490
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: the future of T twenty. And if you've got any

491
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: thoughts on the types of things that you'd like to

492
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: see in terms of I guess reconfiguring the approach that

493
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: the black Caps are taking two T twenty, given it's

494
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: proven reasonably ineffective apart from against a couple of smaller nations.

495
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've noted three things that I'd like to see.

496
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: I'd like to see more power up and down the order,

497
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 2: but particularly up the order. We can't just throw the

498
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: entire burden under Finellen, who has discussed ad nauseam. We're

499
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 2: still not quite sure if he is going to be

500
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: able to deliver consistently enough add international level to be

501
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: the player we need him to be the top. So

502
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: more power up and down the order. I think We've

503
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: got a great white bull bowler in mitchell Santina, but

504
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 2: I'd like to see faster, flatter spinners I think we've

505
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: got and I think I might have mentioned this last week.

506
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: If I didn't, I mentioned in my newshetter. I think

507
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: we've got very good, very clever, good wicket spinners who

508
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: can out fox batners from time to time. But I

509
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: think when the conditions suit spin bowlers, we need guys

510
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: like Judasia and Go from the Western is Akila Hussein

511
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 2: who just rip it and just bolt good balls fast

512
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: at bulls that are hard to score. So I'd like

513
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 2: to see that. And finally, as I've made a note here,

514
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 2: I would like to see a hard assed, virulently rednecked,

515
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: deeply unpleasant Australian fielding coach who is just going to

516
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: get those boys and give them no leeway whatsoever. He

517
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: is going to be on them. They're going to hate

518
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: him and hate every minute of working with him. That

519
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: they're going to restore New Zealand's pride in the field.

520
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, brilliant, Okay, I wonder I wonder who's available? It

521
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: sounds are you advocating for Matthew Hayden to join the

522
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: New Zealand cricket team. Are there a few exceptions to

523
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: your veto as part of your bat plan?

524
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: See what's beyond deeply unpleasant? You can't go beyond that.

525
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking more more in terms of like your

526
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: stumper ricks and kind of guys. Actually the skit love

527
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: for you. He was quite he was quite a good

528
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: BLOKEP See, well we'll talk about it.

529
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: Surely there's a guy called David Warner that's going to

530
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: have a going to be looking around for offshore jobs.

531
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'd be real keen to come and help

532
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: the black Cats.

533
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, what about yourself? If you identified anything that

534
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: you'd like to see more of or see introduced into

535
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: the black Caps T twenty environment.

536
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I'm just aligning with a couple

537
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: of those points that you make. You know, I think

538
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: we talked about it last week, but that you know,

539
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: it's the writing instructions that go to finale. And if

540
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: you're going to have him, if we're going to have

541
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: we're going to make the most of those thirty six

542
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: balls in the power play, then we're going to have

543
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: to absolutely redline that top order. So yes, you know,

544
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: you talk about power up and down the order, and

545
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: I think maybe the power is there, it's just like

546
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: let's absolutely commit to using it. That's the way T

547
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: twenty crickets going and we are falling behind when we're

548
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: just trying to sort of knock it around and mow

549
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: down any total really really late bottles are getting smarter,

550
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: and I think we're missing some opportunities at the top.

551
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: So completely agree with you there. And yes, how good

552
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: would it be if we could get Rushi Khan to

553
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: immigrate to New Zealand? You know, given the current state

554
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: of the international deploymacy between the two countries, possibly unlikely,

555
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: but yeah, we need where do we get a mystery

556
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: spinner from in Hamilton, Palmerston North, you know, Lincoln or

557
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: your beloved, your Plymouth, you know, I'm not sure that

558
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: they exist. There's a couple of guys, Addie a shock,

559
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: I guess, is floating around. Yeah. Look, I think those

560
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: getting getting our guys overseas and actually playing in some

561
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: of these international T twenty comps feel super super important because,

562
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: as you say, that's those are the types of spinners

563
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: that are going absolute gamebusters. If the West Indies can

564
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: do it, I suspect that we can as well. But Gi,

565
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: it's going to take some big changes in our pictures

566
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: and the way that we're bringing players through and getting

567
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: some of those new Zealand a guys over to weird

568
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: places to do weird things.

569
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: One other thing I thought of, we're probably in the

570
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: market for a left arm swing bowler now as well.

571
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: I know. I know Jason Hoyt was with us now

572
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: he might be advocating for Ben Lister, although he went

573
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: a bit off them last summer to me, which was

574
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: a bit rough. It was like it's like he felt

575
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: spurned by him when he didn't immediately start taking five

576
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: wicket bags for the New Zealand.

577
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: Very fickle, very thick, Jason, very fickle. Hey, I don't

578
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: know if you've caught any of the South Africa versus

579
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: the United States match this morning, DC. It's it's Super

580
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 1: eight time because New Zealand not there. It does mean

581
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: I only watched the replays. But Servica beating the United

582
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: States by eighteen runs in the first Super eight game

583
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: at Antiga, I think sound yep.

584
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

585
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: South Africa racking up on hindundred and ninety four for

586
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: four and I had a chicken a little bit on.

587
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: I Quentin Takock to come right in this game and

588
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: he did absolutely blazed away. I think he got seventy

589
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: four and I'm sure the South Africans would have absolutely

590
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: loved being on an actual cricket ground that didn't have

591
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: the field, the sand spray painted green to look like grass,

592
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: and a pitch that seemed to be pretty pretty pretty

593
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: sweet to bat on. They walloped at one hundred and

594
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 1: ninety four for four. To be fair, the United States

595
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: one seventy six for six, a pretty decent run chase

596
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: with some absolute fireworks from Andreas, the South African born

597
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: well expat, I guess, but eighty not out extraordinary, not

598
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: from him.

599
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah it was USA if you been really handy at

600
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: this World Cup, and obviously they have any of the

601
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: big greatest SA conditions either. But yeah, I've been quite

602
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: impressed with them, and I hope it's made a little

603
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: dent over there. The guy de Travka keep I'm forgetting

604
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: how to say his name properly. The Indian Petrovoka Travalka. Yeah,

605
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: the Indian left Armor Silicon Valley executive. He bowled really

606
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: well again, So yeah, fair play to them. At the

607
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: moment I was just going.

608
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: To say, you want to speak about hard art, virulently

609
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: red neck, deeply unpleasant Australian coaches. They've got Stuart law

610
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: in there and he did soften a little bit this week.

611
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: He broke because I think he's been flogging them to

612
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: death in the field and all that sort of thing.

613
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: And he was asked where many of his players had

614
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: to go back to their bosses and ask for extendedly

615
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: but he said yes, yes, quite a few of them

616
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: actually did. They only sort of booked out to the

617
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: group matches. So yeah, I think there's a few of

618
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: them becoming national heroes. I'm sure the bosses have signed

619
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: those off wholeheartedly. But just an interesting little sideline there

620
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: from from Stuart Law as we're speaking at the moment. Actually,

621
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: it's obviously is pointless giving you a match report to

622
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: a game that's halfway through, well not even halfway through,

623
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: and will be finished by the time you're listening to this.

624
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: But I can tell the West Indies are betting first

625
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: against England at Saint Lucia and after fourteen point two

626
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: overs are one hundred and twenty five for one with.

627
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 2: Oran and Powell going great guns and Powell has just

628
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: hit two six is in a row off Livingston, so

629
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: it's now one hundred and thirty one for one and

630
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: that is a Group two match being played. At Saint Lucia. Tonight,

631
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: well overnight we have Indiana versus Afghanistan. It's a Group

632
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: one match. The Superwates are split into two groups. That's

633
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: in Barbados. Tomorrow lunch time we have Australia Bangladesh Group

634
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: one from Antigua and then Saturday two thirty am England

635
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: South Africa Group two from Saint Lucia. The Saturday lunchtime

636
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: game is West Indies USA Barbadoso thirty in the morning

637
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: Bangladesh be India at a Antigua and then Sunday lunchtime

638
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: game is Afghanistan for Australia and that kind of takes

639
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: you through the weekend a lot of cricket. It's just

640
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: even reading that out, it feels sad to read that

641
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: out without New Zealand there. New Zealand should be there

642
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: ahead of your likes. If you're usas your Bangladesh is

643
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: your Afghanistans, well they shouldn't because they didn't qualify. But

644
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's it's doesn't feel right that those

645
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: teams are.

646
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: It's a new Lit cricket podcast. It doesn't. But I

647
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: can tell you that the Afghani cricket podcasts are absolutely

648
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: rubbing their hands with glee, and all of the American

649
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: cricket podcasts are very very excited, and the Bangladeshi ones

650
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: as well. I think those three teams are probably all

651
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: quite surprised to be there and having the well they're

652
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: going to rather if they're going to run a full

653
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: Netherlands vibe and just be extremely happy to be there

654
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: and just go absolutely nuts and have a hell of

655
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: a time to look like the Americans were like, well,

656
00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: we're not going to just knock it around and get it,

657
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, and just sort of see how we go.

658
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: We're going to absolutely go for it and try and

659
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: make some magic happen. We're in the bonus round. I

660
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: do really hope that England get up and do something

661
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: interesting it gets the sorry. I hope that the West

662
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: Indies negate England's attempts to ruin their home tournament. That

663
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: would be good on today's game, and God wouldn't be

664
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: lovely to sit down slightly hangover on Sunday after the

665
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: Super Rugby and the Warriors on Saturday night and watch

666
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: Afghanistan do something filthy to the Australians.

667
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be good. Hey, We're going to take a

668
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: short break now and then come back with some from

669
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: the David Warner files and a bit of violence.

670
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the BYC. You're with Paul Fordham, Dylan

671
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: Cleaver talking absolute rubbish about King Williamson, the Black Caps,

672
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: delving into the intrails of the T twenty World Cup

673
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: and now DC you've got a little bit of news

674
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: from our great free to the podcast, David Dumdam David Warner.

675
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: Let's see of the Super eight opener against Bangladesh. He

676
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: was speaking to NewsCorp and to the Cricket dot com

677
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: Dot Au website and Antigua and he said, since twenty eighteen,

678
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: I've probably been the only one that's ever copped a

679
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: lot of flak. And he's course talking about the the.

680
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: Use of sandpaper at Capetown.

681
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: All tampering scandal of Cape Town and the aftermath of

682
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: Vans and to which Michael Clark said on a ESPN

683
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: Cricken Foe show that he's involved in that he's a

684
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: panelist on, he said, Davey has certainly copped it, There's

685
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: no doubt about it. I just think the timing is

686
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 2: probably not right. I think it probably would have been

687
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: suited for the end of a World Cup rather than

688
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: the middle of it, because there's probably other players in

689
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: the team who would prefer this not to be spoken

690
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 2: about right now. But there's parts of what he said

691
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: that are correct, and I'm not actually sure that there's

692
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: not many parts to it. For a start, he's basically

693
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 2: you just said, he's the only one that's been really

694
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 2: penalized for the bull temporary scandal, and I think Kivin

695
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: Bancroft will quite like a word given he hasn't played

696
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: a test since.

697
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: I do seem to remember seeing a few photos of

698
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: Steve Smith crying as well. I think it's another signal

699
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: of David Warner's self obsession. I think that the world does.

700
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: He does seem to review the world, as you know,

701
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: with him at the center of it. So I'm trying

702
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: to get to and I think, yeah, it's an interesting one.

703
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: I think there is a little bit of an undercurrent

704
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: in there, though, which is that you know he's kind

705
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: of I think there's two things. He's under a lifetime

706
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: leadership band. So you know, you do your crime and

707
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: do your time, well not in this case, you do

708
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: the time and then you just keep doing the time,

709
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: and that you can never kind of escape that that.

710
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: Punishment, and he did ask for that to be reviewed

711
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: and it was rejected, wasn't it Yep?

712
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: Yep? And his wife very helpfully waited in on that battle.

713
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: And you know, you know, I think fair enough, to

714
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: be honest with you, I think that's a pretty reasonable

715
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: thing to dig into from a just a natural justice

716
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: point of view. But anyway, that's that's done and dusted.

717
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: I think the other thing that's in his comments is

718
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: that it's kind of you know, he is hinting that

719
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: other people involved around this were protector that that's an

720
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: interesting little thing there, and he himself, I think the

721
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: follow on quote from the piece that you mentioned was

722
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: that he said, I've taken a lot of pressure off

723
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: a lot of guys as well, and I think understandably

724
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: I've been the person to be able to absorb that.

725
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: But one can only absorb so much. Yeah, there's some

726
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: interesting dynamics in that team, I imagine around that incident

727
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: still ongoing.

728
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: Well, there has always been this feeling that it's curious

729
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 2: that the three people penalized for the ball tampering are

730
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: all batters who didn't directly stand to gain from the

731
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: ball tampering and that the bowling attack on that day

732
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: have got away scott free. That is I mean it

733
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: probably hasn't been written, but that is the unspoken septics

734
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: of that, isn't it. But you know totally and you.

735
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: Know over those when we talked about it before. But

736
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: the other thing is that one hasn't been an absolutely

737
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: magnet for controversy his whole career. I mean he not

738
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: his fault, but of course even just getting picked into

739
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: the Australian team having never played you know, Sheffield Shield cricket,

740
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: it's sort of he's sort of always either accidentally or

741
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: deliberately sort of antagonized purists, you know, punch Joe Root.

742
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: He you know, just he's just been in the I

743
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: guess even just the way that he's played the game

744
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: is trying to hit you slug balls for six. You know,

745
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: Murphy's talked about he talks about David Water as the

746
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: junk yard dog. You know that that he bite your

747
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: leg off. I give him half a chance, all those

748
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: sorts of things. Just an abrasive character that's just a

749
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: magnet for controversy.

750
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeahs, when Kauhaja says something really interesting about that recently

751
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: and I and I guess as a caveat those two

752
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: have played cricket with and against each other since they

753
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: were knee hired to a Grasshopper. They playing the same

754
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: junior rep teams, so there were maybe even the same

755
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: junior club team, so they're obviously close, but it was

756
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: Minkwija said that he felt that Warner was manipulated into

757
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: being someone he wasn't. That he was basically given the

758
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: task of being the on field aggressor the asshole, the

759
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: guy that pushed the boundary with Nathan Lyons, was the

760
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: guy that head butted right up to the to the line.

761
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: He said that when certain elements were removed from that

762
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 2: team and it was post Cape Town essentially, he said

763
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: that when David Warner came back after Cape Down, that

764
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: is the real David Warner. He was finally allowed to

765
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 2: be himself, and it was a far different character, riendly,

766
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: a face, I guess, the reverend. Yeah, yeah, so I mean,

767
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: probably the true guys somewhere between those two poles. But yeah,

768
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: there might be something in that, you know, And I've

769
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 2: always got the feeling that David Warner might be quite

770
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: easily manipulated.

771
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: I was just going to say he's been treated like

772
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: he's the manipulator and maybe he is an element of

773
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: being manipulated. Yeah, interesting one, All.

774
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: Right, cool, I've got one more thing, actually, I think

775
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 2: I asked the question following on from Bruce Paradoo who

776
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 2: died in Hamilton, who was the former Trinidaddian cricketer who

777
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: died in christ Church in twenty thirteen. The answer, of

778
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: course was Simpson Clermonte Dillon, who has been known as

779
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: Sammy Gillon, who wicket kept in New Zealand's first Test

780
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: win against the West Indies and in fact took the

781
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 2: stumping to win the Test, having previously represented that Caribbean conglomerate.

782
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: He also played at Chattam Cup Final in nineteen fifty four.

783
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 2: I did not realize this till recently though. His Western

784
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: AFC side lost in the final to Ony Hunger. And

785
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: apparently he was a man who loved a chat. Did

786
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: semi do it?

787
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: I'll tell you another amazing fact. His grandson is Logan

788
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: van Beek. How good? Yes, sational, sensational, Yeah, amazing. The

789
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: DNA of cricketers is real, isn't it. It's a real thing.

790
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 1: It is that talent is transferred for sure. Yeah, magnificent,

791
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: magnificent player. Hey, speaking of magnificent, this is the complete opposite.

792
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 1: It's time for Paul Ford's cricket Violence Corner. Paul Ford's

793
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: cricket Violence Corner got two this week DC, just very quickly.

794
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 1: Of course, our very owned Tim Soudy has been involved

795
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: in some violence and been handed an official reprimand after

796
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: lashing out at a hand sanitizing dispenser. This was at

797
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: the Brian Lara Cricket Academy. I think we can all

798
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: I empathize with Tim for this, but he did result

799
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: in a Level one breach of the ICC Code of Conduct,

800
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: which relates to the abuse of cricket equips or clothing,

801
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: all ground equipment or fixtures or fittings during an international match.

802
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: He has a unblemished disciplinary record now with one little

803
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: black mark on it. The second one is also World

804
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: Cup related. The world of Pakistan cricket has been rocked

805
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: by a controversial incident involving fast Bola Harris Ralph. This

806
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: has gone viral in the subcontinent outside his team hotel

807
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: during the T twenty World Cup in the USA following

808
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: Pakistan's disappointing exit he's caught on video. He looks visibly

809
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: upset and it confronts a group of fans over their

810
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: alleged disrespectful remarks. Despite efforts from bystanders, including his wife,

811
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: who's in full regalia and trying to intervene, he expresses

812
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: his frustration quite openly, I think is probably the best

813
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: way of saying it. And there was a I guess

814
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: he sparked a diplomatic incidents as well by assuming that

815
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: some of the fans were One of the fans I

816
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: think was Indian. The fan has confirmed that he's actually

817
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: Pakistani and was just having a crack and his own

818
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: player for having a bit of a shit tourna. So yeah,

819
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: but rough.

820
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 2: But you did say that if you bring my family

821
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: into it, I will go at yeah, something to those

822
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: to that effect. And how very New Zealand, isn't it

823
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: that the violence involves an anti bacterial sanitizer. Yeah, we

824
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: like to keep our violence very clean, very very very

825
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 2: clean violence.

826
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad I think you said a challenge of

827
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: Cricket Violet's corner having to go around the world, and

828
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: it's good that New Zealand's finally done something that we

829
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: can but yeah, whether it qualifies as violence, you.

830
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: Know now that fair play to you. That's well done.

831
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dylan, I think that's just about us. Thanks everyone

832
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: for tuning in, dialing down, downloading, whatever you're doing riding

833
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: home from work punching walls. Yes, as Dylan said, you're

834
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: going to need to furtle your week watching other teams

835
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: play out the Super Eights. Hopefully Afghanistan continue to wreak

836
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: have it throughout this tournament and we can look back

837
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: and go well, at least we lost to them and

838
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: they were really damn good. I mean, this could be

839
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: an Afghanistan West Indies final in this World Cup. We'll

840
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: be back next week. In the meantime, if you've got

841
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: anything to get off your chest, send us a short

842
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: dire tribe to b YC at Base Brigade dot co,

843
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: dot z, Kakite and Kirkaha