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Speaker 1: Time to catch up with Finance Minister Nichola Willis gel

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Speaker 1: A good evening, Jack. Did you indulge in the Black

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Speaker 1: Friday sales at all? Was it your cup of tea?

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Speaker 2: No? Not really my kind of thing, but got on

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Speaker 2: those who did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think the Yeah, there's not only much

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Speaker 1: you can read into it. Apparently we had more transactions

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Speaker 1: than last year, but with a slightly lower cost, so

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Speaker 1: it's about even with last year, which I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Can you read anything into that when it comes to

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Speaker 1: our economic progress?

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Speaker 2: Ah? Well, look, I think a lot of people leave

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Speaker 2: this Christmas shopping to a bit later, don't they, And

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Speaker 2: that's when we all part with our precious dollars. So

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Speaker 2: people will be gearing up for that. And I know

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Speaker 2: many New Zealanders will share my argue that if you

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Speaker 2: can spend it at a local business on a local product,

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Speaker 2: you should very good.

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Speaker 1: Now, interest rates the ocr has drop fifty basis points,

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Speaker 1: but we haven't seen a whole lot of movement from

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Speaker 1: the banks when it comes to fixed term rates over

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Speaker 1: the last five or six days. Are you surprised by

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Speaker 1: that at all?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, banks always have a choice about how much

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Speaker 2: they pass on and I'd always rather see it kiwis

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Speaker 2: pockets than padding the bottom line of Australian banks, But

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Speaker 2: of course you know many of them will have priced

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Speaker 2: it in already. This year you have seen significant drops

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Speaker 2: across the board. There was a peak for one year

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Speaker 2: fixed term rates of seven point three four four percent

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Speaker 2: in January. That's now down to five point nine one

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Speaker 2: four percent at the rates vary. I see that there

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Speaker 2: are some banks advertising five point four nine for a

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Speaker 2: two year fix. So in all of these things, I

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Speaker 2: shouldn't give advice, but always shop around refixing your mortgage,

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Speaker 2: make sure you get the best rate possible, because that

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Speaker 2: is real money into your bank account.

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Speaker 1: What did you think of Labour's call regarding ORCUS.

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Speaker 2: I was surprised by that because it seemed premature to me.

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Speaker 2: Let's remember that it was Labor who started the discussions

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Speaker 2: about Pillar two of Aucus back in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: No one's ever talked about joining the pillar, but exploring

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Speaker 2: how we could cooperate on technology with something Labor kicked off,

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Speaker 2: and I was surprised that while those discussions are still ongoing,

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Speaker 2: they would come to a view. And what it said

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Speaker 2: to me is rather than taking a cool, calm view

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Speaker 2: of New Zealand's national interests. Chris Hopkins is putting the

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Speaker 2: views of his labor activists. First. I think he's a

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Speaker 2: leader under pressure.

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Speaker 1: What would we actually get out of joining Pillar two?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that case has been sufficiently made.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what we're continuing to explore, Jack, which is

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Speaker 2: exactly what you would expect us to do, because it's

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Speaker 2: too soon to say at this stage. And what the

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Speaker 2: Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister have been doing is

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Speaker 2: working with Australia in the UK and US to understand

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Speaker 2: how we could work with them in it and whether

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Speaker 2: there would be advantages to New Zealand. It's about technology

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Speaker 2: and it's about maintaining security for New Zealand and what

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Speaker 2: is an increasingly contested region of the world.

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Speaker 1: So David Parker said to us before SOCOT this evening

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Speaker 1: that increasingly it's become obvious that ORCUS is simply an

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Speaker 1: effort to contain China. Is he right?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't see it that way. These are cooperation.

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Speaker 2: This is a cooperation agreement between three countries who are

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Speaker 2: looking to preserve security in the world. As I say,

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Speaker 2: it's a process that labor began back in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: which we've continued and we are doing so with New

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Speaker 2: Zealand's best interests first and foremost in our minds, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's the right thing to do to let

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Speaker 2: that process run through and to so prematurely come to

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Speaker 2: a decision based on a remit at a Labor Party

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Speaker 2: conference that just suggests that Labor are putting politics ahead

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Speaker 2: of the national interest.

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Speaker 1: I was speaking to a security analyst in DC a

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Speaker 1: month or so ago, and we were talking about UCUS

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Speaker 1: and the implications for the Pacific and he said that

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Speaker 1: from his perspective, the thing that was being missed in

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Speaker 1: some of the orcust discourse so far was that there

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Speaker 1: would be really significant economic benefits potentially for New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: that some of this technology could be used by private

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Speaker 1: industry to actually benefit our economy. So when will New

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Speaker 1: Zealanders have a really good idea of what Pillar two

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Speaker 1: would actually entail. It seems to me that's absolutely critical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm sure we will in the coming months.

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Speaker 2: And that is those are conversations that the Defence Minister,

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Speaker 2: the Minister are frand I heres the Prime Minister are

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Speaker 2: regularly engaged in and you're right. Look, our security relationships

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Speaker 2: go to not just our safety in the world and

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Speaker 2: our ability to protect the values that we stand for,

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Speaker 2: but also, of course significantly, they do impact training relationships,

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Speaker 2: They do impact who our businesses operate with and on

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Speaker 2: what basis, And so we need to weigh up all

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Speaker 2: of that and as I say, we think it would

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Speaker 2: be wrong to have a knee jerk reaction at this

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Speaker 2: early interval. We need to assess the information and weigh

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Speaker 2: it up against what's best for keywis would.

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Speaker 1: You consider underwriting the risk of fossil fuel exploration like

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Speaker 1: the oil and gas industry ask you to in July.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've actually recused myself from decision making on that matter,

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Speaker 2: and that is a matter that I have delegated to

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Speaker 2: the Associate Minister for Finance, Chris Bishop, and obviously the

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Speaker 2: Cabinet as a whole.

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Speaker 1: Can we ask why, Yes.

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Speaker 2: That's because I'm complying with the Cabinet Manual in terms

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Speaker 2: of how we manage any perceived conflicts of interest.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, what is the perceived conflict of interest there?

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Speaker 2: Well, per the Cabinet Manual, I'm not going to disclose

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Speaker 2: or go into the detail of that so much as

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Speaker 2: to say that New Zealanders can be assured that I

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Speaker 2: have made the decision that I should recuse myself from

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Speaker 2: that decision so that I can be free from any

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Speaker 2: accusations of bus. I always put New Zealand's interests first,

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Speaker 2: and if that means recusing myself in some matters, then

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Speaker 2: I will.

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Speaker 1: Is the government's investment one hundred and fifteen million bucks

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Speaker 1: into sold the zero is that gone? Pease?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, this is the New Zealand Green Investment Fund,

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Speaker 2: which was started by the previous government, which was intentionally

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Speaker 2: set out pretty independent of ministers in its decision making.

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Speaker 2: So they've told me they made one hundred and forty

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Speaker 2: five million dollar capital commitment and that to date one

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifteen million has been drawn down in subordinated lending.

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Speaker 2: What they are now trying to do is work out

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Speaker 2: how much is at risk, and they tell me that

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Speaker 2: they first need to understand the advice from the legal

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Speaker 2: and insolvency advisors. It's really important to me. One, I'm

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Speaker 2: really concerned for everyone who's lost their job here at

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Speaker 2: a terrible time, just before Christmas. That's really rough. So

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Speaker 2: I want to understand what has gone on, and the

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Speaker 2: second thing I want to understand is are all steps

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Speaker 2: being taken to protect tax payers money? And was this

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Speaker 2: a prudent investment to have made. So I will be

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Speaker 2: meeting with the New Zealand Green Investment Fund later this

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Speaker 2: week to ask those questions, as you would expect me

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 1: Your surplus definitely delayed, right, No, I haven't heard anyone

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Speaker 1: saying it's going to be saying at twenty seven twenty eight.

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Speaker 1: We're looking at twenty eight twenty nine minimum.

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Speaker 2: Right. Well, I make an announced about the forecasts on

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Speaker 2: the seventeenth of December and that's when I will share

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Speaker 2: them what the New Zealand is.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us when you make a decision on

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Speaker 1: the Indo Islander replacement or the future of the replacement

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Speaker 1: theory as well?

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Speaker 2: Not long to wait. Jack will be coming out with

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Speaker 2: our plans for safe, reliable Fury crossings into the future

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Speaker 2: in the coming weeks.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your time, We appreciate it. Finance Minister

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Speaker 1: Nichola willis with us this evening for more from Hither

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Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive listen live to news talks. It'd be

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Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,