1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,920
Speaker 1: Now the government has today started the process to overturn

2
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: the ban on oil and gas exploration in our resources.

3
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:06,760
Speaker 1: Minister Shane Jones is with us.

4
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 2: Hey Shane, Hey, good afternoon. All good evening, Yeah, good evening.

5
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,119
Speaker 1: How are you going convincing the oil and gas companies

6
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:14,160
Speaker 1: to come back to New Zealand.

7
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 2: Oh, it's quite a bit of interest. I host have

8
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,759
Speaker 2: been to see me. Some are relatively small and they're

9
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,639
Speaker 2: willing to invest in the fields that still have a

10
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 2: bit of juice left in them. The others that have

11
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 2: bigger checkbooks are looking to wait and see a final

12
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,879
Speaker 2: shape and form of the bill. Naturally, they're but fearful

13
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,199
Speaker 2: as to whether or not the government's going to change

14
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 2: and the Venezuelan orientated Green Party takeover. But I said,

15
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 2: there's a little prospect of that happening.

16
00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So what do they want to see in the

17
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,040
Speaker 1: build the big guys before they actually put their money

18
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 1: back in the country.

19
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,239
Speaker 2: Ah, they want to be sure that there's a balanced

20
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:57,200
Speaker 2: approach to decommissioning. That means cleaning up. That's the first thing.

21
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,320
Speaker 2: Second thing that the process for alacating the consents of

22
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,639
Speaker 2: the permits. It's rational and more importantly that whatever rights

23
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,400
Speaker 2: they secure, that they're protected, they're safeguarded, and they're a

24
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 2: change of government doesn't mean that they can be arbitrarily stripped.

25
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:17,640
Speaker 1: Have you figured out how to do that?

26
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

27
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, No, the bill's got some robust protections. And

28
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,800
Speaker 2: also what are that trainsparent process? Well, number one, if

29
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 2: you are allocated a permit, then that permit cannot be

30
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,959
Speaker 2: summarily stripped away from you. If you are a high

31
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,680
Speaker 2: quality entite, like someone like Rio Tinto, et cetera, then

32
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 2: a great deal of focus and emphasis will be placed

33
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 2: on your pedigree and your reputation and the fact that

34
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 2: you have had a profound experience in operating these industries

35
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 2: overseas and you won't be totally put through the ringer.

36
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,800
Speaker 1: Okay, is that any different to what it was beforehand

37
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 1: with stripping away the oil and gas expiration permits, because

38
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 1: that's not what the last government did that free people

39
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,320
Speaker 1: out anyway, Well.

40
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 2: The last government puts such huge onerus obligations on the

41
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,360
Speaker 2: cleanup that people. The people basically gave up. The obligations

42
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 2: were so extraordinarily heavy, they were the worst in the world,

43
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 2: so no one was prepared to do it.

44
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 1: But is it possible for you guys to lay out

45
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 1: what you expect the clean up the cleanup obligations to

46
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,040
Speaker 1: be without the next lot coming in and beefing them

47
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 1: up again.

48
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is because those will be contractual

49
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:36,360
Speaker 2: obligations in contracts will be enabled to exist beyond regimes.

50
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 1: So do you do you expect then that the big guys,

51
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,560
Speaker 1: having seen the bill now that are they waiting for

52
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 1: the bill basically to pass into an act before they

53
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:45,760
Speaker 1: actually do something, or will they look at the bill

54
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,320
Speaker 1: as it is right now and go okay, cool, yep,

55
00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:48,079
Speaker 1: we're all good.

56
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean they're going to wait for it to pass.

57
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 2: But look, they had some positive feedback already.

58
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 1: What about Todd though in their announcement today.

59
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 2: Look, I've got they've got a call and with me,

60
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 2: and the message from them is that there's a lot

61
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 2: of misinformation in the media. But I'll talk to them

62
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 2: later around the seat.

63
00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 1: Oh really, what is the misinformation?

64
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,799
Speaker 2: If you bring me tomorrow, I'll be able to share

65
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:11,239
Speaker 2: it with you.

66
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: Because they say our refocus on New Zealand, coupled with

67
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 1: declining gas reserves means that Todd is adopting a simplified structure. Unfortunately,

68
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,639
Speaker 1: this will also result in a reduction of jobs. That's

69
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,239
Speaker 1: them quota of verbatim. I can't see how that could

70
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 1: be misconstrued.

71
00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 2: Well, at the end of the day, they already have

72
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,360
Speaker 2: gas interests. They are selling gas as we speak. They

73
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 2: recently were involved in a High court case with methad X.

74
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 2: They've got a hell of a lot of investment capital

75
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 2: tied up in the gas industry.

76
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 1: Shane, do you I mean, it seems to be that

77
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,160
Speaker 1: at the heart of their concerns is whether we actually

78
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,680
Speaker 1: have any more gas out there? Do you think we

79
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 1: have more gas out there?

80
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, the geologists assume me that we've got more gas

81
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 3: out there. But then you know, as well as I

82
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 3: do anything to do with the mineral, natural resource estate,

83
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 3: there's always a risk involved. You could argue, why don't

84
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 3: we just import it? And that's something that the government's

85
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,240
Speaker 3: looking at. But forgot this indigenous resource and it is

86
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,240
Speaker 3: capable of being extracted, why shouldn't we.

87
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, when they say there's more gas out there,

88
00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 1: do they mean that there's more gas in the existing

89
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,000
Speaker 1: gas fields that we just need to pump pump them harder,

90
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,839
Speaker 1: or are they saying that we haven't even discovered other.

91
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,159
Speaker 2: Gas Yeah, yeah, I mean there were latter. Yeah, there's

92
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 2: an Australian crowd that were five days away from signing

93
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 2: up a massive deal for a virtually infinite gas field

94
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,760
Speaker 2: off the coast of Wamadu, And sadly, once just Cinda

95
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 2: made her decision six years ago, they walked away from

96
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 2: the deal. So there's an inordinately large gas field of

97
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,800
Speaker 2: the South Island and there are additional gas resources in

98
00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 2: Tatanaky And this is what I am told by the geologists.

99
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 1: Why didn't you stop that decision when you had the power?

100
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 2: Yes, that would pass as the most egregious decision I

101
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 2: was ever associated with. And sadly it is burned in

102
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,240
Speaker 2: my consciousness and the kabuki faces I made.

103
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 3: At the time.

104
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 1: And why didn't you stop it?

105
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:22,839
Speaker 3: Oh?

106
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,479
Speaker 2: Well, I think we got six or seven percent of

107
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 2: the vote and just Cinder at the time treated it

108
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 2: as her nuclear moment. It's in the past and I'm

109
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,920
Speaker 2: serving a type of penance by reversing it.

110
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,840
Speaker 1: Well, why don't you tell me why you didn't stop it?

111
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,560
Speaker 1: Because you do think you're dodging that question, aren't.

112
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 2: You, mate? When you got six or seven percent of

113
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 2: the vote. Therein lies the level of your influence.

114
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:45,160
Speaker 1: She overruled you.

115
00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's all in the past. Now she's in America

116
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,680
Speaker 2: getting on with the rest of her life. As we

117
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 2: got closer to COVID, our party and labor through Jacinda

118
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 2: drifted apart and a massive chasm ideological barrenness emerged between

119
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 2: the two of us.

120
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you stopped heaps of other things. You were

121
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 1: a handbrake on a whole bunch of stupid ideas. This

122
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 1: was like one hundred percent the stupidest. Should have stopped

123
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:10,440
Speaker 1: this one.

124
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,000
Speaker 2: No, no, it was the worst energy decision in the

125
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 2: history of New Zealand. Of course I've told you before

126
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,720
Speaker 2: that Megan would she closed down the Marson Point Refinery,

127
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,760
Speaker 2: the worst energy minister ever since the Treaty of white Ony.

128
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can anyway. I don't want to talk to

129
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 1: you too much. I think you are already living in

130
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,160
Speaker 1: the ramifications of it. Shane, always appreciate your time. Best

131
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 1: of Like, are there reading that? Shane Jones, the Resources Minister.

132
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,360
Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

133
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,479
Speaker 1: news talks the'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

134
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,240
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio,