1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,972 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talk zed Be 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,813 --> 00:00:19,372 Speaker 2: Doctor Alex Barta is one of the foremost experts in 4 00:00:19,533 --> 00:00:22,213 Speaker 2: sleep in this country. He runs the sleep Well Clinic 5 00:00:22,413 --> 00:00:24,773 Speaker 2: and he joins us on the line now, doctor Bartle, 6 00:00:24,813 --> 00:00:26,692 Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Good afternoon. 7 00:00:26,253 --> 00:00:29,173 Speaker 3: Good to talk to you. In simple terms, what does 8 00:00:29,253 --> 00:00:33,613 Speaker 3: working night or rotating shifts do to the body's circadian rhythms? 9 00:00:33,853 --> 00:00:37,853 Speaker 3: The Cicadian clock? And see what is the Cicadian clock. 10 00:00:37,933 --> 00:00:39,893 Speaker 3: Let's go to base well. 11 00:00:39,973 --> 00:00:42,772 Speaker 4: Circadian clock is based on the light and the dark, 12 00:00:43,213 --> 00:00:45,293 Speaker 4: which for thousands of years has been sort of twelve 13 00:00:45,373 --> 00:00:47,772 Speaker 4: years to twelve hours day, twelve hours night. And we've 14 00:00:47,853 --> 00:00:50,973 Speaker 4: mucked around with that in that we're now living in 15 00:00:50,973 --> 00:00:53,532 Speaker 4: an environment where we change our day and night so 16 00:00:53,613 --> 00:00:58,773 Speaker 4: much so light suppresses melatonin and starts producing cortisol, and 17 00:00:58,813 --> 00:01:00,773 Speaker 4: that wakes us up, gets us going during the day 18 00:01:01,133 --> 00:01:03,693 Speaker 4: and at nighttime when he gets dark, we produce melatonin 19 00:01:03,733 --> 00:01:08,213 Speaker 4: that reduces ability to stay awake. Can we fall asleep, 20 00:01:08,773 --> 00:01:10,932 Speaker 4: And so when you start doing shift work, you're trying 21 00:01:10,973 --> 00:01:13,092 Speaker 4: to sleep when you should be awake, and you're trying 22 00:01:13,133 --> 00:01:15,172 Speaker 4: to be awake when you should be asleep. So it does. 23 00:01:15,253 --> 00:01:21,013 Speaker 4: It's very difficult. Nobody really puts up with Cicadian rhythm 24 00:01:21,373 --> 00:01:25,733 Speaker 4: dysfunction for too long. It's always difficult to sleep and 25 00:01:25,773 --> 00:01:27,413 Speaker 4: difficult to stay awake during the night. 26 00:01:28,013 --> 00:01:31,693 Speaker 3: And so can that just be solved as simply as 27 00:01:31,853 --> 00:01:35,533 Speaker 3: blackout curtains or eye masks and you know. 28 00:01:36,053 --> 00:01:38,893 Speaker 4: Ear plugs, no question, if you come home in the 29 00:01:38,893 --> 00:01:42,133 Speaker 4: morning and it's daylight, keeping the place dark and wearing 30 00:01:42,212 --> 00:01:44,732 Speaker 4: sunglasses on the way home, for example, to block the 31 00:01:44,813 --> 00:01:47,653 Speaker 4: light keep it dark during the night during the day 32 00:01:48,013 --> 00:01:50,293 Speaker 4: will help. But the problem is that, you know, if 33 00:01:50,333 --> 00:01:52,373 Speaker 4: you were doing three or four weeks of night shift 34 00:01:52,373 --> 00:01:55,373 Speaker 4: and just spending night tivit, you would soon train your 35 00:01:55,373 --> 00:01:58,093 Speaker 4: Cicadian rhythm to a night shift phase. But we don't 36 00:01:58,133 --> 00:02:00,373 Speaker 4: do that. We tend to spend you know, three or 37 00:02:00,373 --> 00:02:02,413 Speaker 4: four nights maybe on night shift, and then we go 38 00:02:02,453 --> 00:02:04,573 Speaker 4: on to day shift or we have the weekends off, 39 00:02:04,653 --> 00:02:07,493 Speaker 4: which means we go back to a normal rhythm. And 40 00:02:07,493 --> 00:02:09,853 Speaker 4: so it's this swapping backwards and forwards that's actually the 41 00:02:09,853 --> 00:02:10,933 Speaker 4: difficult part of it. 42 00:02:11,133 --> 00:02:13,253 Speaker 3: And how quickly does this sort of I guess you'd 43 00:02:13,333 --> 00:02:17,133 Speaker 3: call it sleep debt build up in terms of shift work. 44 00:02:17,213 --> 00:02:19,253 Speaker 3: So if you're losing your sleep, how quickly does that 45 00:02:19,293 --> 00:02:20,853 Speaker 3: start to affect your performance? 46 00:02:22,293 --> 00:02:24,693 Speaker 4: Well, I mean even after one night, it's not going 47 00:02:24,773 --> 00:02:27,173 Speaker 4: to be quite as good as it would have been otherwise. 48 00:02:27,573 --> 00:02:29,693 Speaker 4: And in fact, the best sort of shifts are those 49 00:02:29,773 --> 00:02:32,173 Speaker 4: these days that are in and out of night shift 50 00:02:32,413 --> 00:02:35,653 Speaker 4: very quickly. For example, the police often run a twelve 51 00:02:35,693 --> 00:02:38,893 Speaker 4: hour shift, so they'll do twelve hours day and a 52 00:02:38,933 --> 00:02:42,693 Speaker 4: twelve hours night, but they do two nights, two days 53 00:02:42,773 --> 00:02:45,573 Speaker 4: and four off. That's not bad. They get their hours 54 00:02:45,573 --> 00:02:48,973 Speaker 4: in okay, enough for a week's work, but they are 55 00:02:48,972 --> 00:02:51,373 Speaker 4: only doing two nights and then they're on to four 56 00:02:51,453 --> 00:02:53,093 Speaker 4: days off, which is probably a way to go. 57 00:02:53,693 --> 00:02:56,093 Speaker 2: So, doctor, what's your thoughts about malatonin? And it will 58 00:02:56,093 --> 00:02:59,173 Speaker 2: soon be sold over the counter without requiring a prescription. 59 00:02:59,773 --> 00:03:01,733 Speaker 2: Were you in favor of that when it's an announce 60 00:03:01,893 --> 00:03:04,172 Speaker 2: when it was announced? And is it a good way 61 00:03:04,173 --> 00:03:06,133 Speaker 2: for night shift workers to get some shut eye if 62 00:03:06,133 --> 00:03:07,893 Speaker 2: they haven't been sleeping well for a good week. 63 00:03:09,093 --> 00:03:11,732 Speaker 4: It's probably nothing like as effective as keeping the room 64 00:03:11,853 --> 00:03:14,733 Speaker 4: dark and quiet and making sure that they're not working 65 00:03:14,813 --> 00:03:19,293 Speaker 4: during the day. It's not. It works very they're going 66 00:03:19,333 --> 00:03:21,653 Speaker 4: to have very low dose of meloton in any way, 67 00:03:22,613 --> 00:03:26,613 Speaker 4: even the Cicadian, the two milligram slow release products, even 68 00:03:26,613 --> 00:03:29,333 Speaker 4: the manufacturers of that initially said it didn't make any 69 00:03:29,333 --> 00:03:31,813 Speaker 4: difference under fifty five year olds. So it's a very 70 00:03:31,893 --> 00:03:36,213 Speaker 4: weak it's not really a sleeping pill. It's not a 71 00:03:36,253 --> 00:03:41,173 Speaker 4: sleeping pill. And you know, jet lag maybe for people 72 00:03:41,173 --> 00:03:44,452 Speaker 4: who are pilots or aircrew occasionally use it, but it's 73 00:03:44,453 --> 00:03:47,533 Speaker 4: not that effective. The most important part is light and dark. 74 00:03:47,733 --> 00:03:50,133 Speaker 4: As I've said right at the beginning, that's the most 75 00:03:50,853 --> 00:03:54,452 Speaker 4: powerful in train abound cicadian rhythm. Zopiclone, on the other hand, 76 00:03:54,453 --> 00:03:56,733 Speaker 4: which is the other pill that's been mentioned, is a 77 00:03:56,773 --> 00:04:00,013 Speaker 4: proper sleeping pill, and if you take that too close 78 00:04:00,053 --> 00:04:02,493 Speaker 4: to actually going to do some safety critical work, that's 79 00:04:02,493 --> 00:04:05,853 Speaker 4: probably not a good idea. But again, it has an 80 00:04:05,933 --> 00:04:09,293 Speaker 4: active life what's called a half life of about six hours, 81 00:04:09,773 --> 00:04:11,973 Speaker 4: and so if you take it when you want to 82 00:04:11,973 --> 00:04:14,213 Speaker 4: go to sleep at sort of seven in the morning, 83 00:04:14,933 --> 00:04:16,933 Speaker 4: eight in the morning, when you get home, by the 84 00:04:16,973 --> 00:04:18,853 Speaker 4: time you go to work at ten o'clock at night, 85 00:04:18,893 --> 00:04:20,733 Speaker 4: it's going to be well out of the system by then. 86 00:04:21,373 --> 00:04:23,493 Speaker 4: So again it's quite a short acting but a good 87 00:04:23,533 --> 00:04:24,613 Speaker 4: sleeping till pill. 88 00:04:24,933 --> 00:04:30,413 Speaker 3: So if it's if malatonin pills are quite weak. Were 89 00:04:30,413 --> 00:04:34,053 Speaker 3: you surprised that Kiwi Rols put this ban on the 90 00:04:34,133 --> 00:04:35,733 Speaker 3: use of melatonin? 91 00:04:36,893 --> 00:04:39,893 Speaker 4: Yes, I am, indeed. In fact, that's probably why the 92 00:04:39,973 --> 00:04:43,413 Speaker 4: government we're quite happy to put it onto open open 93 00:04:43,493 --> 00:04:47,853 Speaker 4: buying through pharmacies because really it's more a placebo response 94 00:04:47,973 --> 00:04:51,773 Speaker 4: rather than that fantastically chemical response. 95 00:04:51,973 --> 00:04:54,493 Speaker 3: Because I think this is the case because I've taken 96 00:04:54,533 --> 00:04:56,533 Speaker 3: the malatonin a lot when I've been in the States, 97 00:04:56,613 --> 00:05:00,413 Speaker 3: and I found it very effective. But I just wonder 98 00:05:00,413 --> 00:05:02,453 Speaker 3: if that's because you just let yourself off the hock. 99 00:05:02,573 --> 00:05:03,973 Speaker 3: You know, you need to get some sleep because the 100 00:05:04,053 --> 00:05:06,813 Speaker 3: work you need the day, and you take the pearl 101 00:05:06,853 --> 00:05:08,853 Speaker 3: and you've pulled the curtains in your hotel room and 102 00:05:08,893 --> 00:05:12,613 Speaker 3: then you're just calm, you know, as you say your course, And. 103 00:05:12,693 --> 00:05:14,333 Speaker 4: I think there's a lot to do with it. And also, 104 00:05:14,373 --> 00:05:15,933 Speaker 4: of course when we're traveling a lot of the time 105 00:05:15,973 --> 00:05:18,733 Speaker 4: we spend more time outside during the day, and outside 106 00:05:18,773 --> 00:05:22,773 Speaker 4: light is the most powerful and trainer. If you like 107 00:05:22,813 --> 00:05:24,853 Speaker 4: about circadian rooms. You know, if you go to the UK, 108 00:05:24,933 --> 00:05:27,053 Speaker 4: for example, the best thing you can do is spend 109 00:05:27,053 --> 00:05:29,333 Speaker 4: the first few days outside as much as you can, 110 00:05:29,373 --> 00:05:31,693 Speaker 4: and that will most quickly and train you so you 111 00:05:31,733 --> 00:05:34,053 Speaker 4: can start sleeping at night and being away during the day. 112 00:05:34,413 --> 00:05:36,813 Speaker 4: It's the light dark cycle that makes a huge difference. 113 00:05:37,213 --> 00:05:39,453 Speaker 2: Would there be a worry doctor? And I note in 114 00:05:39,493 --> 00:05:41,773 Speaker 2: this story that it mentioned some of the workers had 115 00:05:41,813 --> 00:05:44,693 Speaker 2: been using the likes of zoppo clone for years. For you, 116 00:05:44,773 --> 00:05:47,253 Speaker 2: as a sleep expert and a doctor, would that give 117 00:05:47,253 --> 00:05:49,253 Speaker 2: you cause for concern if someone is using it on 118 00:05:49,293 --> 00:05:50,693 Speaker 2: a regular basis for that long. 119 00:05:51,773 --> 00:05:55,293 Speaker 4: Well, yes I would. And the most concerning part is 120 00:05:55,333 --> 00:05:57,213 Speaker 4: if you're starting to need more and more of it, 121 00:05:57,253 --> 00:05:59,933 Speaker 4: which is so commonly happens when you start with half 122 00:05:59,973 --> 00:06:01,733 Speaker 4: does the job, and then you need one, and then 123 00:06:01,773 --> 00:06:04,053 Speaker 4: you need one and a half. That's the problem. People 124 00:06:04,053 --> 00:06:07,093 Speaker 4: who perhaps in their seventies or eighties, have been taking 125 00:06:07,133 --> 00:06:09,933 Speaker 4: it for decades, take half a pill every night. I've 126 00:06:09,973 --> 00:06:13,173 Speaker 4: got no problem with that. It's not ideal, but I'm 127 00:06:13,173 --> 00:06:15,173 Speaker 4: not going to suddenly jump up and down about that. 128 00:06:15,173 --> 00:06:18,573 Speaker 4: But if you're a twenty year old and needing to zopoclane, 129 00:06:18,613 --> 00:06:20,293 Speaker 4: there are many other ways in which we need to 130 00:06:20,293 --> 00:06:23,453 Speaker 4: get their sleep sorted out rather than taking zopoclone. 131 00:06:23,973 --> 00:06:25,613 Speaker 3: What do we know about the type of sleep you 132 00:06:25,653 --> 00:06:28,773 Speaker 3: get on the likes of zopoclone or what's the other one, 133 00:06:28,973 --> 00:06:31,973 Speaker 3: dimezapan is that I might have said that wrong, because 134 00:06:33,693 --> 00:06:36,373 Speaker 3: when I take it, I feel like, you know, I've 135 00:06:36,413 --> 00:06:39,093 Speaker 3: been knocked out, But generally wake up with a horrible 136 00:06:39,133 --> 00:06:43,013 Speaker 3: metallic taste in my mouth, crudibly dry mouth, and feel 137 00:06:43,893 --> 00:06:47,413 Speaker 3: sort of odd, kind of like my brain's been raised, 138 00:06:47,413 --> 00:06:49,533 Speaker 3: as opposed to have been refreshed, if you know what 139 00:06:49,573 --> 00:06:49,893 Speaker 3: I mean. 140 00:06:50,733 --> 00:06:53,133 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean it does have different effects on different people, 141 00:06:53,173 --> 00:06:55,933 Speaker 4: but the majority, not all, but the majority of people 142 00:06:55,973 --> 00:06:58,493 Speaker 4: do get this metallic taste in the mouth. That's pretty common. 143 00:06:59,093 --> 00:07:02,373 Speaker 4: But you know, many people wake up in the morning 144 00:07:02,373 --> 00:07:05,613 Speaker 4: after zoppoclona feel fired in the morning. But there's certain 145 00:07:05,693 --> 00:07:09,373 Speaker 4: number of people yourself included. Obviously does have a hangover 146 00:07:09,493 --> 00:07:11,973 Speaker 4: sort of effect. In terms of quality of sleep, the 147 00:07:12,053 --> 00:07:16,373 Speaker 4: zopoclone probably doesn't. Is a non benzodiazepine, so it doesn't 148 00:07:16,413 --> 00:07:20,053 Speaker 4: have some of the effects of diazepin, which is a benzodiazepine. 149 00:07:20,133 --> 00:07:24,173 Speaker 4: So in terms of impacting on sleep, it doesn't impact greatly. 150 00:07:24,213 --> 00:07:26,653 Speaker 4: It does reduce the amount of ram and non rams 151 00:07:26,653 --> 00:07:29,973 Speaker 4: sleep you have to some degree, so your sleep isn't 152 00:07:30,013 --> 00:07:32,693 Speaker 4: going to be quite as good with any medication. But 153 00:07:32,853 --> 00:07:36,013 Speaker 4: zoppotone is probably the safest of all the sleeping Taler 154 00:07:36,173 --> 00:07:41,293 Speaker 4: two pills, but only I've taken just occasionally for emergency. 155 00:07:41,413 --> 00:07:44,573 Speaker 3: You might say, if we flip this around and get 156 00:07:44,613 --> 00:07:47,253 Speaker 3: from trying to go to sleep to waking up, you 157 00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:50,133 Speaker 3: say that natural light is the best way. I was 158 00:07:50,133 --> 00:07:52,693 Speaker 3: telling my partner because she was saying she's feeling very sleepy. 159 00:07:52,773 --> 00:07:56,493 Speaker 3: I said, try looking up at lights. So do electric 160 00:07:56,573 --> 00:08:00,053 Speaker 3: lights work as well as as the sun for waking 161 00:08:00,093 --> 00:08:00,293 Speaker 3: you up. 162 00:08:01,453 --> 00:08:04,013 Speaker 4: Don't look at the light, don't look at the sun. 163 00:08:04,133 --> 00:08:04,213 Speaker 1: No. 164 00:08:04,813 --> 00:08:08,053 Speaker 4: Just generally ambient light in rooms are less than a 165 00:08:08,133 --> 00:08:12,013 Speaker 4: thousand lux you know lux missle of light, So something 166 00:08:12,093 --> 00:08:14,853 Speaker 4: like in my office here, it's something something like six 167 00:08:14,973 --> 00:08:17,213 Speaker 4: or seven hundred lucks, which I think is pretty average. 168 00:08:17,733 --> 00:08:21,733 Speaker 4: Outside is completely different in the Auckland moment, and it's 169 00:08:21,773 --> 00:08:24,373 Speaker 4: sort of variously sunny and a bit cloudy. It's probably 170 00:08:24,453 --> 00:08:29,213 Speaker 4: something like sixty to seventy thousand lucks. It's completely different outside, 171 00:08:29,253 --> 00:08:31,733 Speaker 4: and that's what our brain is for thousands of years. 172 00:08:32,133 --> 00:08:33,852 Speaker 4: In the middle of summer, it might go up to 173 00:08:33,893 --> 00:08:36,173 Speaker 4: even to eighty to one hundred thousand lucks. That's what 174 00:08:36,213 --> 00:08:38,253 Speaker 4: our brains, what our brains haven't been used in the 175 00:08:38,293 --> 00:08:41,613 Speaker 4: past is glare. So when we need to wear some protection, 176 00:08:41,732 --> 00:08:45,492 Speaker 4: possibly is where it's clary, so tilts, our buildings, concrete slabs, 177 00:08:45,533 --> 00:08:49,892 Speaker 4: tarmacadam roads. What we need where you go outside, which 178 00:08:49,973 --> 00:08:53,213 Speaker 4: is much better for us is shaded blue, green life. 179 00:08:53,573 --> 00:08:56,013 Speaker 4: She's going to walk through the local park or gardens. 180 00:08:56,372 --> 00:08:58,853 Speaker 4: You know, shaded, don't look at the sun, but just 181 00:08:59,173 --> 00:09:03,333 Speaker 4: being outside the light is completely different, and it's a 182 00:09:03,372 --> 00:09:06,973 Speaker 4: particularly game for the walk to you know, green blue environment, 183 00:09:06,973 --> 00:09:10,333 Speaker 4: which is our natural environment to colors anyway, that's what 184 00:09:11,252 --> 00:09:15,973 Speaker 4: suppresses melatonin, wakes us up and starts producing serotonin, which 185 00:09:16,213 --> 00:09:19,053 Speaker 4: makes us feel good. And the more serotonin we produced 186 00:09:19,132 --> 00:09:22,573 Speaker 4: during the day by spending more time outside, that converts 187 00:09:22,573 --> 00:09:25,613 Speaker 4: to melotonin. So the more serotonin produced during the day, 188 00:09:26,012 --> 00:09:28,372 Speaker 4: the more melotonin it converts to at night and helps 189 00:09:28,413 --> 00:09:31,173 Speaker 4: us sleep. So when your mum said to you, you 190 00:09:31,173 --> 00:09:32,893 Speaker 4: know you've been out camping or tramping for a day, 191 00:09:32,973 --> 00:09:34,732 Speaker 4: or your sleep well might deal because you've had lots 192 00:09:34,732 --> 00:09:36,973 Speaker 4: of fresh air. It's nothing to do with the air. 193 00:09:38,173 --> 00:09:40,733 Speaker 3: Interesting and so in the modern world, if say you 194 00:09:40,773 --> 00:09:43,413 Speaker 3: work in an office, you're working inside, then you should, 195 00:09:43,852 --> 00:09:45,172 Speaker 3: you know. And some of us get up when it's 196 00:09:45,173 --> 00:09:46,933 Speaker 3: still dark, and we drive to work when it's pretty 197 00:09:46,973 --> 00:09:48,773 Speaker 3: much dark, and we go straight inside, and then we 198 00:09:48,813 --> 00:09:50,453 Speaker 3: wonder why we're so sleepy. 199 00:09:50,892 --> 00:09:51,933 Speaker 4: What we need to. 200 00:09:51,852 --> 00:09:55,173 Speaker 3: Try and do is find would five ten minutes walk 201 00:09:55,293 --> 00:09:57,893 Speaker 3: outside and the natural light be enough to sort of 202 00:09:57,933 --> 00:10:01,933 Speaker 3: get you serotoning and melotonin and down. 203 00:10:02,533 --> 00:10:05,653 Speaker 4: Yes, five or ten minutes is better than nothing. We 204 00:10:05,813 --> 00:10:08,252 Speaker 4: usually suggest half an hour would be a great time 205 00:10:08,453 --> 00:10:10,093 Speaker 4: to do that, and of course the more the better, 206 00:10:10,813 --> 00:10:13,573 Speaker 4: but half an hour is probably what we would usually recommend. 207 00:10:13,973 --> 00:10:15,813 Speaker 4: But as I say, if you can manage five or 208 00:10:15,852 --> 00:10:19,973 Speaker 4: ten minutes outside in a shaded, blue green environment that 209 00:10:20,173 --> 00:10:22,252 Speaker 4: sidea of just going for a walk through the local 210 00:10:22,293 --> 00:10:24,693 Speaker 4: park or whatever. If you can walk to work or 211 00:10:24,933 --> 00:10:26,933 Speaker 4: spend a bit of time outside, then you're quite right. 212 00:10:26,933 --> 00:10:31,093 Speaker 4: But many people, particularly in winter, go from their house 213 00:10:31,173 --> 00:10:33,413 Speaker 4: into their car, which is in effecting doors into their 214 00:10:33,453 --> 00:10:35,893 Speaker 4: office as I do. I mean, I'm in an office 215 00:10:35,892 --> 00:10:38,252 Speaker 4: at the moment, and it's in this relatively dim light. 216 00:10:38,293 --> 00:10:40,933 Speaker 4: We don't think it's dim, but it feel but it 217 00:10:40,973 --> 00:10:43,333 Speaker 4: is actually much dimmer, and I tried to get out 218 00:10:43,333 --> 00:10:45,093 Speaker 4: I've just been out of lunch time. So I've just 219 00:10:45,252 --> 00:10:47,612 Speaker 4: went for a walk. This at lunchtime, which is the 220 00:10:47,612 --> 00:10:51,372 Speaker 4: main time I can get outside, so summer's better for that, 221 00:10:51,653 --> 00:10:56,573 Speaker 4: but nonetheless spending bit of time outside really helpful in 222 00:10:56,653 --> 00:10:57,333 Speaker 4: shaded light. 223 00:10:57,813 --> 00:11:00,053 Speaker 3: Wow, thank you so much for that. There was a 224 00:11:00,053 --> 00:11:02,173 Speaker 3: great chat, no trouble, Thank you very much. 225 00:11:02,213 --> 00:11:04,813 Speaker 2: That is doctor Alex Bart, one of the foremost experts 226 00:11:04,813 --> 00:11:06,813 Speaker 2: in sleep in New Zealand. He runs Asleep Well Clinic 227 00:11:06,973 --> 00:11:09,132 Speaker 2: and I imagine he's been incredibly unt over the past 228 00:11:09,132 --> 00:11:10,813 Speaker 2: couple of years. Sleep such a major thing. 229 00:11:11,492 --> 00:11:14,132 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk set B listen live on 230 00:11:14,213 --> 00:11:17,173 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 231 00:11:17,213 --> 00:11:19,813 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio