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Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, a name

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Speaker 1: you can trust locally and globally.

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Speaker 2: On the huddle with me this evening, we have Bridget

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Speaker 2: Morton of Frank's Ogilvy and Phil GoF, former labor leader

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Speaker 2: and mayor of Auckland, amongst other things. Hire you too, goody,

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Speaker 2: good evening. Now, Bridget, you're a lawyer, so tell me.

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Speaker 2: Are you comfortable with police pressing new charges against the

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Speaker 2: woman at the center of the mix skimming case?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely not. And I think this show is an inherent

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Speaker 4: flaw in this piece of legislation that it can often

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Speaker 4: be used and weaponized against speech that we do think

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Speaker 4: is true or needs to be public interest, or you know,

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Speaker 4: shouldn't be punishable in this way. And I think it

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Speaker 4: gives us a really good opportunity to re look at

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Speaker 4: that legislation and really determine actually whether or not it's

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Speaker 4: actually helping us or harming us.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so is your problem actually more with the legislation

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Speaker 2: than anything the fact it exists?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the fact that the way the legislation

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Speaker 4: is drafted clearly demonstrates that it can be used in

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Speaker 4: this way. I think we do want to have protections

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Speaker 4: for people from online harm. I think there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of bad things that can occur in that way. But

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Speaker 4: obviously when you've got an organization like this can use

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Speaker 4: it basically to cover up in a way to intimidate,

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Speaker 4: it shows that the legislation is not such a purpose.

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Speaker 2: But what about the fact bridget that, I mean, we

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Speaker 2: don't know what she says. So the charges against the

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Speaker 2: mix gimming email charges have been dropped, but these are

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Speaker 2: fresh emails allegedly sent to a police officer and his

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Speaker 2: wife Rick. We don't know what was in them. That

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Speaker 2: maybe whatever is said and it may not be true, right,

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Speaker 2: So in that case, would that be fair?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there is obviously a line that needs

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Speaker 4: to be determined. But when you think about the wider context,

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Speaker 4: what we want is a situation where people can speak

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Speaker 4: up against power and can speak up when they are

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Speaker 4: in a situation. And it may be sometimes that that

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Speaker 4: what's the content that those emails may not be comfortable

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Speaker 4: to us or may be seen this's pushing too far,

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Speaker 4: but that's what we ask from our activists, from the

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Speaker 4: people that actually make change in this world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you reckon film.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, she may well have been abusive in the

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Speaker 3: ten emails she's sent to the police officer and his

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Speaker 3: wife that was responsible for the prosecution against her, But

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Speaker 3: you've got to see it within the context of the

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Speaker 3: fact that she was not being listened to. Clearly under

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Speaker 3: the influence of nick skimming. It looked very much like

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Speaker 3: the police were protecting their own And you know, was

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Speaker 3: she angry. Of course she was angry, and she had

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Speaker 3: every right to be angry. I think in the overall

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Speaker 3: context of the damage that was done to her by

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Speaker 3: the failure to treat her fairly overwhelms the charge against

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Speaker 3: her that she may have been abusive to the detective

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Speaker 3: and his wife that were responsible for prosecuting her.

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Speaker 2: Okay, do you want to see an investigation to determine

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Speaker 2: whether something illegal has been done by these officers, phil.

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Speaker 3: Well? I think the officers that are still in the police,

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Speaker 3: their careers will now be in jeopardy. They'll have no

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Speaker 3: future in the police. And the officers, including Andy Costa,

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Speaker 3: that now hold positions outside of police but still within

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Speaker 3: the public service, are not likely to be holding onto

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Speaker 3: those positions given the damaging the damage to their reputation

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Speaker 3: caused by what they did wrong. I don't know that

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Speaker 3: it was corruption. I know that the that the minister

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Speaker 3: said that if it walks like a duck and quacks

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Speaker 3: like a ducker, then it is a duck. I think

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Speaker 3: it's just seriously bad misjudgment on the part of Andy Costa,

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Speaker 3: and he has a price to pay for that.

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Speaker 2: What do you reckon Bridge? Should there be an investigation?

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Speaker 4: I think what needs to happen now is the police

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Speaker 4: need to rebuild some of the trust. I think that

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Speaker 4: you know, most New Zealanders will look at this and

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Speaker 4: be horrified that this is the police force that is

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Speaker 4: meant to uphold the integrity and standards of our society.

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Speaker 4: I think for them to be able to clear their names,

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Speaker 4: they have to do the investigation, regardless of whether or

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Speaker 4: not it actually results charges, because I think that will

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Speaker 4: help demonstrate that they're actually turning over every storet and

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Speaker 4: taking every effort possible.

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Speaker 2: Because because the argument that you're making there, basically bridget

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Speaker 2: is the old were they bad or just exercising bad judgment?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: And you'd almost need an investigation to determine that, wouldn't.

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Speaker 4: You, Yeah, Because otherwise they're essentially being able to apply

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Speaker 4: that judgment again to that question, and of course that's

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Speaker 4: not going to help rebuild any of that trust or

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Speaker 4: we felt on.

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Speaker 2: This pension thing. The Herald is estimated that Gevin mcskimming

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Speaker 2: may get a pension of worth like a million bucks

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Speaker 2: or something. Is Richard Chambers right that there's nothing that

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Speaker 2: can be done to take the pension off him.

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Speaker 3: I think he is right. He's done. Mc skimming did

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Speaker 3: twenty nine years with the police under the Police super Scheme,

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Speaker 3: so he's contributed to it, and the police have contributed

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Speaker 3: their share to it. And I don't think our justice

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Speaker 3: system enables.

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Speaker 5: Us to.

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Speaker 3: Take account of bad acts by people and denying them

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Speaker 3: the money that they've put into a personal super scheme.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think he had opened up a real

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Speaker 3: can of worms if you were to do that. Although

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Speaker 3: every instinct in your body said, this guy.

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Speaker 5: Was being paid half a million a year and spending

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Speaker 5: work time on his work computer watching Kenny child porn

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Speaker 5: and bestiality, and you're kind of your rage that you know,

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Speaker 5: this very senior person being paid so much was doing

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Speaker 5: this in breach of the law. Say, how the hell

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Speaker 5: can we remedy.

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Speaker 3: That and get some justice but I think that under

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Speaker 3: the current law, I don't think that's possible, And before

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Speaker 3: you'd changed that law, you'd have to think of all

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Speaker 3: the repercussions of so doing fair.

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Speaker 2: Point, Bridget, listen, is it obvious to you, like it

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Speaker 2: feels obvious to me that the leak of the fact

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Speaker 2: that we know that Richard Chamber has got a speeding

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Speaker 2: ticket is a strategic leak to show that he is

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Speaker 2: not made of the same stuff as these other cops.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think you talking about that in the

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Speaker 4: in his speech, his graduation speech demonstrates that he wants

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Speaker 4: to really overt that he has to these other police officers,

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Speaker 4: and I appaud him for that. I think this is

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Speaker 4: you know, he made a mistake and he owned up

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Speaker 4: to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah too, Right, Okay, we'll take a break. Come back

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Speaker 2: to you guys shortly, Bridget Molton, Phil Golf.

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Speaker 1: Our huddle, the Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's international real team,

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Speaker 1: the only truly global brand.

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Speaker 2: Right, you're back of the huddle, Pill Golf and Bridget Moulton, Phil.

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Speaker 2: I want your take on the truancy. Is the drop

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Speaker 2: in attendance this year, the fault of the teachers who

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Speaker 2: did the strike on a Thursday, or the parents who

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Speaker 2: decided not to put their kids in school on the

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Speaker 2: friday thereafter.

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Speaker 3: Well, I suspect strongly it's the latter, because leaving aside

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Speaker 3: the teachers strike that week, if you look back at

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Speaker 3: the history of truancy, you find that on the last

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Speaker 3: day of term the school attendants of kids drops, and

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Speaker 3: not even on the last day, not even on the friday.

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Speaker 3: It's Thursday and the Friday. And some of that is

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Speaker 3: families just deciding, well, we're going to go away for

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Speaker 3: holidays for the school holidays, and we won't book on

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Speaker 3: the Saturday because af fairs are really expensive during school holiday,

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Speaker 3: so we'll go before the end of the school year.

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Speaker 3: I think it feels to me a bit like a

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Speaker 3: bit of cheap politics, actually, And there's one other thing

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Speaker 3: I'd want to pick up, you know, David Semol was

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Speaker 3: blaming the teachers' unions. That kind of implies that the

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Speaker 3: teachers are all cheap and don't make their own mind up.

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Speaker 3: The decision to strike was a decision taken by the teachers,

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Speaker 3: So let's not do the union bashing thing. If you

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Speaker 3: don't like it and you want to blame somebody for it,

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Speaker 3: then you've got to say, well, it's the teachers that

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Speaker 3: made that decision. Don't bring in literally the red hearing

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Speaker 3: of saying it's the unions that are to blame. But

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Speaker 3: the teachers are really decent people, but they're being led

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Speaker 3: astray by their union. I think that's nonsense as.

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Speaker 2: Well, Bridget I've been very irritated by that strike, but

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Speaker 2: I think that the teachers might be right on this account.

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Speaker 2: It's actually the parents fault.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, ultimately parents are sponsoredily to get their

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Speaker 4: kids to school, and then teachers for teaching when they're there.

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Speaker 4: So I think that's true. I mean, without a doubt

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Speaker 4: there are some parents who saw that as an opportunity

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Speaker 4: to take the Friday who might have taken it otherwise.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, ultimately for into results of the list.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally now Bridge it on the key we save

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Speaker 2: it for kids idea, good idea or bad idea.

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Speaker 4: I really enjoy and appreciate sort of ideas to get

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Speaker 4: more of our kids saving and more financially literate. But

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Speaker 4: I think giving them a handout at birth when they've

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Speaker 4: got no ability to actually think about investment, I don't

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Speaker 4: think that really achieves it, and then ultimately they're just

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Speaker 4: incentivizing parents to contribute to that so that it'll be

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Speaker 4: parents that.

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Speaker 2: Can It's all a clever way bridget of us getting

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Speaker 2: out of the pension one day.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think more there's more settings that we can

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Speaker 4: deal with, and I think the government's changes to aid

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Speaker 4: funancial literacy to the education criculum was really important. But

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Speaker 4: also that change they made that employer contributions for sixteen

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Speaker 4: and seventeen year olds I think is really important because

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Speaker 4: that's actually when young people actually engaged with key we

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Speaker 4: Saver for the first time, and that actually advises them

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Speaker 4: a real incentive to actually put the money away and

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Speaker 4: start that habit which been encouragement to continue it. I

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Speaker 4: think those things are much more important than handouts the

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Speaker 4: baby all.

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Speaker 2: Right, hand babies. That is what it is though, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, Look, I tend to agree. I like the

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Speaker 3: idea of kids being encouraged to save, and that's that's great,

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Speaker 3: But if it's not the kids saving at that point,

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Speaker 3: it's the parents putting the money in, and you know,

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Speaker 3: then the government, I think the idea was to match

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Speaker 3: the parents' contribution. What that might end up being as

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Speaker 3: a bit of a social welfare system for the middle

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Speaker 3: income people, because those that can't afford to save won't

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Speaker 3: be able to do it, and we're giving more money

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Speaker 3: to people from middle income backgrounds who arguably don't need it.

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Speaker 2: It's also like, I mean, what is going on here, right,

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Speaker 2: We're constantly abdicating pairingal responsibility to the state. Whatever happened

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Speaker 2: to going and buying a money box in the shape

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Speaker 2: of a dinosaur and giving the kid a couple of

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Speaker 2: bucks for doing something good and you teach child that way?

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Speaker 3: Phil, Yeah, well I'd be in favor of that.

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Speaker 2: What did you do with your kids.

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Speaker 3: Don't I don't think we opened a bank account for them.

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Speaker 2: You have a money box though?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, we always had the money box, and you

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Speaker 3: know that was that was bit of fun for the kids.

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Speaker 3: And you know, if they did something good, you could say, well,

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Speaker 3: we're going to put some money in your money box.

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Speaker 3: And there was probably just coins. It wasn't a huge

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Speaker 3: amount of money, but it was. It was a symbolic thing.

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Speaker 3: And in the old days, of course, you used to

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Speaker 3: be you know, you join your kids up to the

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Speaker 3: post office savings bank and you know to go along.

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Speaker 2: And you're in the nineteenth century, wasn't it, Bridgie, Brigitte.

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Speaker 3: You would have had and Queen Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Bridget, you would have had the ASB elephant, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 4: No, I'm not quite that young, but I mean it's

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Speaker 4: not Bridgit in the early forties.

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Speaker 2: So I had the elephant. What are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: And you got the little book and then you had

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Speaker 2: to write your deposits and like you had to do

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Speaker 2: it manually with a pen. You didn't do that.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, clearly I was deprived of that. But I

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Speaker 4: mean I definitely had a money box. But interestingly, we

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Speaker 4: recently tried to buy a moneybox on my nephew. He's

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Speaker 4: six years old. They're not actually easy to come by anymore.

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Speaker 4: I don't think they're as popular as they used to

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Speaker 4: bid you google it, I think.

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Speaker 1: Google.

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Speaker 4: We tried the old session you know, a shops localnic

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Speaker 4: me approach.

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Speaker 2: You got to google it. Hey, guys, thanks for Bridget.

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Speaker 2: Go away and google it now and then text me

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Speaker 2: when you found it. You will have found it within

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Speaker 2: ten seconds. Bridget Morton, Frank's Ogilby and Phil GoF, former

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Speaker 2: labor leader and mayor of

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Speaker 1: Auckland, For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talk se' B from four pm weekdays, or

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Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio