1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: The government's announced today an attempt to take the politics 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: out of transport by setting up an agency that will 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: plan ahead for the next thirty years. Tony Canavan is 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: EWISE Global Transport leader. He's visiting New Zealand from Singapore. Hey, Tony, 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: I have so where in New Zealand are you right now? 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: I'm sitting at the Building Nations conference in Auckland down 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: by the water all right, about eight hundred other people. 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: Have you had a look at the infrastructure in Auckland. 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: I only just arrived yesterday, but i have been in 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: Auckland before, so I've got a broad familiarity with it. 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: Rated out of ten for me, I think. 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: It's up there at seven eight. It's had some growing 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: pains over the years. 14 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: I don't mean, Tony, I don't mean like the awesomeness 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: of the city. I mean the infrastructure. I'd give it 16 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: a sort of like I'd be thinking, if you're below five, 17 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: you'd be about right. Like maybe i'd give you a 18 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: five if you're if you're feeling generous, really stand by 19 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: a seven. 20 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: Well. I wouldn't be a very good visitor if I 21 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 2: came in and started keeping rakings like that. But I do. 22 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: I do know that, like a lot of successful cities, 23 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: it's had a lot of growth and it's not always 24 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 2: easy to keep up with that growth. And you do 25 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: see a bit of that in Auckland, but there's also 26 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: a lot of good things about it too, So I 27 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: think I'll sell it with my current score. 28 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: Thank you havev okay. If you could do anything to 29 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: Auckland to improve the infrastructure, what would you do? 30 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: Well? As I said, I think, you know, keeping up 31 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: with growth. Growth is a good thing, you know, it's 32 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: a sign of success, but keeping up with growth is difficult, 33 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: particularly when it comes to transport, and so having a 34 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: comprehensive plan, you know, across all the modes of transport, 35 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: so that people, the community, investors, leaders come and go 36 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: and the next one comes along knows what the plan is, 37 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: so that the network can grow with the people. And 38 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: I think that that's something that Auckland could benefit from. 39 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: The Government has just announced today a twenty six million 40 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: dollar infrastructure agency that will work through a thirty year 41 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: pipeline of infrastructure. Is it a smart idea to decide 42 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four what we are going to be 43 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: building in twenty fifty four. 44 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 2: Yes, I think it is. It doesn't mean that you're 45 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: going to absolutely stick to it religiously, but I think 46 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: with infrastructure it has such a long life header Now 47 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 2: it takes a long time to build, then it will 48 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: be around for thirty, forty fifty, even one hundred years, 49 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: that you do need to look a long way ahead. 50 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: And yes, you make adjustments as you go along. So 51 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: I think it's always a good idea to put a 52 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: plan in place and have that there. It's sent a 53 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 2: signal and it gives people an idea of the direction 54 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: you're going. So generally speaking, I think I think it's 55 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: the right thing to make sure you're doing planning properly, 56 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: particularly where you're a city and a country is growing 57 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: in the way that Awkand is. 58 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: Is there a balance to be strung? I mean, at 59 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: the moment we have a real political debate. People on 60 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: the right and the center right really want to build 61 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: roads and kind of get that freight going and get 62 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: people moving in their cars. People on the left and 63 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: the sinter lift really want to build cycle ways. How 64 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: do you kind of balance that out? When when I 65 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: mean it's you know, I love it, I love a 66 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: good cycle way, but it seems kind of silly to 67 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: be building something that's only used by about ten people 68 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: a day. 69 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think the bicycle pars are silly, but 70 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: I do think the overall competition, if you're like sometimes 71 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: between road and public transport and bicycle pars, that can 72 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: be a bit silly in my opinion, because each has 73 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: a role to play, and when you look at the 74 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: different modes of transport, they're good for different types of journeys, 75 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: and the best networks around the world are truly multimodal, 76 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: and look for the best way to balance the investment 77 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: across those things, not to try and put all the 78 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: eggs into one basket. 79 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: But it is the same game, isn't it. I mean, 80 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: you've only got so much money. 81 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: Sorry, Heather, I missed that. 82 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: It's a zero some game. You've only got so much money. 83 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: So if you're taking money and you're pup popping it 84 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: into an expensive cycle way, you don't have it for roads. 85 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's when the plane. That's the plane is 86 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: referre too is so important because if you don't have 87 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: the plan, and you haven't thought about the priorities, and 88 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: you've got limited funds, as you've said, then you can 89 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: make the wrong choice with those funds. In the end, 90 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: the most important decision you can make is to do 91 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: the right project. Now each has the role to play, 92 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: and you know, doing that kind of planning enables you 93 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: to find the right balance and get the people, get 94 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: people using the right infrastructure for the right types of journeys. 95 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: So for us with a congestion charge, it feels very 96 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: much like it's time has come in the country, and 97 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: I think across the political spectrum there is agreement that 98 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: we need to do this. But the difficulty we've got 99 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: is that if we're going to force people out of 100 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: their cars at peak travel, we need to have alternatives, 101 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: and they are not necessarily there. Can we actually go 102 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: ahead with it if people don't have an alternative public transport? 103 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head 104 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 2: head because there are strong arguments for a congesting charge. 105 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 2: I mean there's been cities that have done it. You 106 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: mentioned Singapore, you can look at London, Stockholm and they've 107 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 2: had some success. But the things that those countries have 108 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 2: had in place, and you really need to make sure 109 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: you have in place when you launch into this sort 110 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: of reform is well, the first thing is the alternatives 111 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: that you just mentioned. I mean, when Singapore upgraded to 112 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: the electronic road pricing system, which congested charging, they were 113 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: building the metro system at the same time, so they 114 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: were creating that alternative. You've also got to make sure 115 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,679 Speaker 2: you're not hurting low income groups because in New Zealand 116 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: and in countries like Australia, people rely on their cars 117 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 2: to get around, so you need to calibrate it carefully 118 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: so that you're not hurting the people you really don't 119 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 2: want to hurt. And you've got to have things like 120 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: city bypassing and stuff like that. So there's definitely an 121 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: argument for it, but you have to be very careful 122 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: to make sure you've got the other things in place. 123 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: So I think you nail on the head. Tony. 124 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for talking us, so I really 125 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: appreciate your expertise. Tony Cannevan, Global Transport leader for the 126 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: Government sector Ey visiting New Zealand from Singapore. For more 127 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: from Hither Dupless Yellen Drive, listen live to news talks. 128 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 129 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.