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Speaker 1: Nicola will Is our finance ministers with us. Hello Nicola,

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Speaker 1: Hi Heather, Now just talk me through what you're doing

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Speaker 1: here with proposals to increase fuel supply. This sounds like

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Speaker 1: you're looking medium term, as in beyond this conflict or

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Speaker 1: is it for this conflict.

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Speaker 2: It's for the fact that there could be disruption and

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Speaker 2: fuel supply as a result of this conflict. Right now,

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Speaker 2: the fuel companies are telling us everything's fine, they continue

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Speaker 2: to secure orders, they've got alternative sources of supply, but

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Speaker 2: we want to be prepared if the worst happens and

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Speaker 2: they can't get enough fuel for New Zealand. And we

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Speaker 2: have received some unsolicited proposals from parties saying we could

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Speaker 2: get you some increased supply. So we've agreed as a

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Speaker 2: cabinet that we will assess those proposals to see whether

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Speaker 2: that would add to our fuel security in the medium term.

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Speaker 2: And that includes making sure that it would be additional

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Speaker 2: fuel security over and above which we already get from

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Speaker 2: commercial fuel importers. And of course we need to do

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Speaker 2: that in a way that minimizes risk to the text path.

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Speaker 1: Who are these parties just offering to help.

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Speaker 2: Look a range of commercial entities. They've come to us

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Speaker 2: commercially in confidence, so I won't reveal it are the

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Speaker 2: domestic it's a range of both domestic and international parties.

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Speaker 2: And one of the specific proposals relates to these tickets

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Speaker 2: we have through the International Energy Agency, which are options

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Speaker 2: for fuel. Those tickets at the moment are for crude

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Speaker 2: oil and things that wouldn't be particularly useful in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: But one of the offers we've had says, well, we'll

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Speaker 2: swap you if you give us those tickets, We'll give

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Speaker 2: you a amount of refined fuel that could go into

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Speaker 2: New Zealand engines. And what we want to do is

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Speaker 2: assess whether that stacks up and whether there's anyone else

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Speaker 2: who might do the same thing on better terms.

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Speaker 1: So would they do the refining for us? If we

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Speaker 1: send them our crude, they'd refine it for us and

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Speaker 1: give us.

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Speaker 2: Some well more direct they just do a direct swap.

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Speaker 2: We'd let them have access to those tickets, some of

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Speaker 2: which is crued and some of which is refined products,

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Speaker 2: and in return they would give us access to an

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Speaker 2: equivalent proportion of refined fuel that could be used.

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Speaker 1: In using Why would they want crude.

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Speaker 2: Well, Obviously there are a range of people around the

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Speaker 2: world on the hunt for crude right now, because not

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Speaker 2: much crude can get out of the Strait of holl Moves.

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Speaker 1: But if they give it, but if they've got the

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Speaker 1: refined stuff, why are they relinquishing their refined stuff for crude,

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Speaker 1: Like why would they want crude over.

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Speaker 2: Refined Because around the world there are refineries looking for

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Speaker 2: alternative sources of crude oil because the major challenge for

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Speaker 2: them is that they're not getting the normal supply of

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Speaker 2: crude oil out of the Middle East, and so they're

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Speaker 2: looking for alternative sources of supply.

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Speaker 1: But aren't they just going to refine it the.

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Speaker 2: US, Yes, that's right, they would refine it, but of

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Speaker 2: course there would be a delay between that crude getting

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Speaker 2: to them and being refined, and so they're offering a

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Speaker 2: quick solution, which is will swap you. And so we're

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Speaker 2: assessing that proposal, its viability, its practicality, the commercial terms

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Speaker 2: on which we do it. And in addition, we've had

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Speaker 2: some other commercial proposals for importing fuel direct to New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: and we're conscious that we don't want to get in

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Speaker 2: the way of the fuel companies here. They already have

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Speaker 2: an obligation to import fuel into New Zealand to meet

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Speaker 2: customer demand, and they have minimum stockholding obligations in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: That should be the way that this progresses. But what

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Speaker 2: we're looking at is do we need an insurance policy

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Speaker 2: so we've got a bit more back up should there

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Speaker 2: be a last minute cancelation coming through one of those

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Speaker 2: fuel companies.

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Speaker 1: Listen Kelly Ecolled from Westpac says we need to start

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Speaker 1: rationing the diesel now because it's some stage were are

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Speaker 1: going to run out. And there seems to be an

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Speaker 1: increasing number of people who are saying, maybe you guys

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Speaker 1: need to be a little bit more panic.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they are right, but are you

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Speaker 1: maybe being too relaxed?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, because right now we have

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Speaker 2: sufficient fuel in the country. In fact, we have so

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Speaker 2: much fuel in the country that we're actually using our

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Speaker 2: existing storage facilities. So what we are preparing for right

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Speaker 2: to say you should be prepared is a scenario in

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Speaker 2: which incoming fuel supplies reduce and that's not going to

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Speaker 2: happen immediately because we know we've already got a lot

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Speaker 2: of fuel in the country in our sovereign waters on

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Speaker 2: the way. We know we haven't yet had any orders canceled,

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Speaker 2: but we are acting now to prepare for a potential

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Speaker 2: scenario in which future orders were delayed or canceled. But

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Speaker 2: that's not what's happening right now. In fact, today the

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Speaker 2: diesel and petrol stocks are up nine days, so actually

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Speaker 2: we are in a sufficient position right now, but we're

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Speaker 2: being prepared.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now read the McCain's closure. Is there anything that

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Speaker 1: we can do to stop the likes of maccains, to

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Speaker 1: stop the likes of Hinz Water's closing or is it

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Speaker 1: simply inevitable and we need to just sit there and

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Speaker 1: watch it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's heartbreaking for anyone affected by those sorts of closures,

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Speaker 2: particularly the workers are directly losing their jobs, but also

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Speaker 2: the growers who've had a relationship with those factory for

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Speaker 2: a long time and it's called comfort. But overall, the

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Speaker 2: manufacturing sector has been turning a corner in recent times.

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Speaker 2: So you do see some firms close, others expand others open.

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Speaker 2: But this is why the government is so focused on

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Speaker 2: this issue of getting the underlying conditions for businesses better.

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Speaker 2: We know that things like ensuring you've got less red tape,

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Speaker 2: you can get a consent easier, that your electricity system

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Speaker 2: is working well. These are all important to manufacturers and

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Speaker 2: that's why we've had this growth agenda of saying what's

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Speaker 2: getting in the way of business in New Zealand and

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Speaker 2: why we've been so intent on fixing those problems.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but is there anything we can do to stop it?

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Speaker 2: In this particular case, it's a commercial decision being taken

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Speaker 2: by an individual firm. Take it away from the perfect thing.

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Speaker 1: Let's take it away from I mean, yes, I've talked

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Speaker 1: about individuals, but let's take it away from that and

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Speaker 1: the de industrialization of this country. Is there anything we

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Speaker 1: can do to stop this from happening? Or is it

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Speaker 1: just simply inevitable that there we lose businesses as we

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Speaker 1: go along as a country.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think it's inevitable. I think it is.

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Speaker 2: Why it's really important we have a highly functional electricity

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Speaker 2: and energy system. And I could lament past mistakes in

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Speaker 2: the form of the oil and gas ban, but instead

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Speaker 2: what we're focusing on is making sure that we've got

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Speaker 2: rid of the red tape that was really slowing down

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Speaker 2: investment in new wind farms and solar generation. That's necessary

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Speaker 2: to increase generation of electricity in New Zealand and keep

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Speaker 2: it affordable. We're fast tracking those projects now. That's why

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Speaker 2: we have moved to ensure that the energy sector has

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Speaker 2: some certainty about the regulatory environment into the future, so

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Speaker 2: that generators can invest in more generation. It's why we're

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Speaker 2: backing Genesis Energy with more investments so that they can

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Speaker 2: get on and not only expand generation and new forms

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Speaker 2: of energy, but also continue to have that coal backstop

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Speaker 2: available because that provides security to the whole electrics market

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Did you see the guy the pea farmer who spoke

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Speaker 1: to the media, Hugh Richie last week about the fact

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Speaker 1: that he gets a dollar seventy for every kg of

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Speaker 1: p's that he gives McCain's, but then he sees it

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Speaker 1: on the supermarket shelves for five dollars eighty.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I saw that, and I wondered if you'd invite

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Speaker 2: someone on from the supermarket chains to explain it.

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Speaker 1: Is it a supermarket problem? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think would be interesting to hear their perspective,

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Speaker 2: don't you.

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Speaker 1: I would, and I'll tell you what I'll tell you what,

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Speaker 1: I'll make a deal with you, Okay, because we've been

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Speaker 1: here with the supermarkets. I'll get them on. I'll have

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Speaker 1: a chat to them if hopefully if they talk to us.

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Speaker 1: But then can we come back to you and find

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Speaker 1: out what you're going to do about it?

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Speaker 2: Sure? And look, we are doing something about it, which

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Speaker 2: is we've already put in place new legislation to make

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Speaker 2: it easier to open competitor supermarkets in this country. We've

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Speaker 2: increased the obligations on supermarkets to do fair pricing and

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Speaker 2: fair promotional deals, and we are still actively working on

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Speaker 2: other things that we could do to support increase competition

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Speaker 2: in the grocery sept Okay, I.

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Speaker 1: Think we'll have a chat later on thank you. I

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Speaker 1: was always appreciated that it's Nicola Willis the finance been

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