1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,413 Speaker 1: from News Talks. 3 00:00:11,453 --> 00:00:17,053 Speaker 2: A'd be it's funny how becoming a parent instantly makes 4 00:00:17,093 --> 00:00:18,453 Speaker 2: you care more about stuff. 5 00:00:20,693 --> 00:00:22,773 Speaker 3: There's a hot take if everything was one right, But 6 00:00:22,813 --> 00:00:26,693 Speaker 3: it's funny as a like as a kid. As a child, 7 00:00:26,773 --> 00:00:30,973 Speaker 3: I used to find it super embarrassing when my dad 8 00:00:30,973 --> 00:00:34,413 Speaker 3: would yell out at cars that were driving too fast. 9 00:00:35,293 --> 00:00:37,093 Speaker 2: So, you know, would be standing on the side of 10 00:00:37,093 --> 00:00:38,893 Speaker 2: the street or walking to school or something and someone 11 00:00:38,933 --> 00:00:41,093 Speaker 2: would speed past and Dad would call out to them, 12 00:00:41,093 --> 00:00:44,853 Speaker 2: and I would think, oh, my goodness, shame. But now 13 00:00:44,973 --> 00:00:48,213 Speaker 2: I'm that guy. Right, every time a car hons up 14 00:00:48,213 --> 00:00:50,533 Speaker 2: our street, I want to scream at the driver, and 15 00:00:50,613 --> 00:00:56,133 Speaker 2: sometimes I do. There are kids here, you're tosser. My 16 00:00:56,293 --> 00:01:02,013 Speaker 2: values in education have very much sharpened since becoming a parent. 17 00:01:02,613 --> 00:01:07,453 Speaker 2: My views on kids and smartphones have only intense, and 18 00:01:07,493 --> 00:01:11,253 Speaker 2: as Australia's world leading ban on social media for under 19 00:01:11,293 --> 00:01:15,133 Speaker 2: sixteens comes into effect, I am fascinated to see what's 20 00:01:15,173 --> 00:01:21,693 Speaker 2: going to happen. For the record, I really really dislike 21 00:01:21,813 --> 00:01:25,133 Speaker 2: social media. I think what was initially sold to the 22 00:01:25,173 --> 00:01:29,093 Speaker 2: world as a way for people to connect has morphed 23 00:01:29,093 --> 00:01:34,413 Speaker 2: into something far more cynical and sinister. Honestly, the likes 24 00:01:34,453 --> 00:01:38,853 Speaker 2: of Facebook know that they maximize their profits by keeping 25 00:01:39,013 --> 00:01:42,373 Speaker 2: people scrolling. And while once upon a time when you 26 00:01:42,373 --> 00:01:44,493 Speaker 2: were on Facebook or Instagram you would mainly just be 27 00:01:44,533 --> 00:01:48,253 Speaker 2: seeing pictures of your mates, the various platforms have all 28 00:01:48,253 --> 00:01:52,373 Speaker 2: worked out that nothing keeps people scrolling for longer than 29 00:01:52,453 --> 00:01:56,973 Speaker 2: making them really, really angry. For all of the relatively 30 00:01:57,013 --> 00:02:01,133 Speaker 2: harmless accounts and cat videos or people making creative and 31 00:02:01,213 --> 00:02:04,653 Speaker 2: funny content, the net effect, I think has been poisonous. 32 00:02:05,333 --> 00:02:07,973 Speaker 2: The platforms that were meant to connect us have done 33 00:02:08,053 --> 00:02:12,333 Speaker 2: the opposite. They have isolated us. They've divided us. I 34 00:02:12,373 --> 00:02:15,453 Speaker 2: said last year on the show that social media platforms 35 00:02:16,213 --> 00:02:19,493 Speaker 2: should be subject to better regulation, not to mention better 36 00:02:20,093 --> 00:02:24,573 Speaker 2: or proper taxation, and at the very least we should 37 00:02:24,613 --> 00:02:30,813 Speaker 2: be considering something like Australia's social media starts. But for 38 00:02:30,853 --> 00:02:34,013 Speaker 2: those of us who nerd out on public policy, the 39 00:02:34,173 --> 00:02:38,333 Speaker 2: actual design of the Australian legislation, I think has underscored 40 00:02:38,453 --> 00:02:44,453 Speaker 2: why this is such a tricky issue to legislate and regulate. 41 00:02:45,573 --> 00:02:49,813 Speaker 2: And it comes down, I think, to the definition what 42 00:02:50,293 --> 00:02:55,413 Speaker 2: is social media? Even though they can try and work 43 00:02:55,453 --> 00:02:59,293 Speaker 2: to a common set of standards. Ultimately, someone needs to 44 00:02:59,333 --> 00:03:03,293 Speaker 2: make a judgment call. Right, that's how the Australian law works. 45 00:03:03,493 --> 00:03:06,053 Speaker 2: They've got a list of ten platforms that are subject 46 00:03:06,053 --> 00:03:09,933 Speaker 2: to the So while Instagram, Facebook and TikTok have been banned, 47 00:03:10,333 --> 00:03:15,133 Speaker 2: discord doesn't yet face the same restrictions. There are thousands 48 00:03:15,213 --> 00:03:18,613 Speaker 2: of different platforms nay hundreds of thousands, millions maybe on 49 00:03:18,653 --> 00:03:22,693 Speaker 2: the Internet where young people can still post and interact. 50 00:03:23,853 --> 00:03:26,493 Speaker 2: YouTube has argued that it isn't social media at all. 51 00:03:26,533 --> 00:03:29,853 Speaker 2: You can still access many videos without an account and 52 00:03:29,933 --> 00:03:33,293 Speaker 2: read It is taking legal action arguing that its platform 53 00:03:33,413 --> 00:03:37,853 Speaker 2: is totally different to many of the others. All of 54 00:03:37,933 --> 00:03:42,413 Speaker 2: us appreciate that teenagers are industrious. Right, you can try 55 00:03:42,413 --> 00:03:45,453 Speaker 2: and play whack a mole and ban every new platform 56 00:03:45,493 --> 00:03:48,373 Speaker 2: that pops up, but obviously some of them are going 57 00:03:48,413 --> 00:03:51,373 Speaker 2: to find ways around the law, just as anyone who 58 00:03:51,413 --> 00:03:54,653 Speaker 2: got their hands on alcohol or cigarettes before their eighteenth 59 00:03:54,693 --> 00:03:58,413 Speaker 2: birthday will attest. But supporters of the law say, actually 60 00:03:58,493 --> 00:04:02,893 Speaker 2: that is a pretty good analogy. No one is suggesting 61 00:04:02,933 --> 00:04:06,333 Speaker 2: that the ban is going to stop every last kid 62 00:04:06,573 --> 00:04:11,733 Speaker 2: from accessing social media, but it generally makes it more 63 00:04:11,853 --> 00:04:18,693 Speaker 2: difficult with the most popular platforms. Truthfully, I don't know 64 00:04:19,333 --> 00:04:22,333 Speaker 2: how effective this law is going to be. I don't know. 65 00:04:23,453 --> 00:04:27,253 Speaker 2: I understand the impulse to want to protect children. I 66 00:04:27,333 --> 00:04:30,693 Speaker 2: was a big supporter of banning phones and schools. I 67 00:04:30,733 --> 00:04:34,293 Speaker 2: think that unregulated social media has been disastrous, but this 68 00:04:34,413 --> 00:04:39,333 Speaker 2: is super, super complex. I think the sensible thing for 69 00:04:39,373 --> 00:04:44,373 Speaker 2: New Zealand to do is to wait, not forever, but 70 00:04:44,533 --> 00:04:49,093 Speaker 2: just take six months, take a year, learn from the Australians, 71 00:04:49,533 --> 00:04:53,853 Speaker 2: observe closely the unintended impacts of the law, what works 72 00:04:53,853 --> 00:04:57,653 Speaker 2: well and what doesn't, and then make a call. And 73 00:04:57,773 --> 00:05:01,773 Speaker 2: even if we do act in the future, just as 74 00:05:01,773 --> 00:05:05,773 Speaker 2: with booze or with cigarettes, truthfully, the state can only 75 00:05:05,813 --> 00:05:08,733 Speaker 2: do so much. And look, it's easy to say this now, 76 00:05:08,813 --> 00:05:11,733 Speaker 2: perhaps come back to me in five or ten years 77 00:05:11,813 --> 00:05:14,733 Speaker 2: or when my kids are a bit older, But the 78 00:05:14,773 --> 00:05:18,853 Speaker 2: primary responsibility for keeping kids safe in the digital age 79 00:05:19,013 --> 00:05:24,373 Speaker 2: cannot fall to governments or legislators. The responsibility is with 80 00:05:24,533 --> 00:05:26,573 Speaker 2: us parents. 81 00:05:27,133 --> 00:05:30,253 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 82 00:05:30,333 --> 00:05:33,173 Speaker 1: to News Talks d B from nine am Saturday, or 83 00:05:33,213 --> 00:05:35,133 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.