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Speaker 1: It's time for politics Wednesday. Mark Mitchell's with us along

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Speaker 1: with Ginny Anderson. Good morning to both of you. A

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Speaker 1: couple of quickies for you Mark. Just on the business

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Speaker 1: this morning of we had Chris Carhill on they haven't

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Speaker 1: been doing the vaping. They didn't update the system. Are

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Speaker 1: you fixing that? Have they let you down? Is the

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Speaker 1: a problem to here?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean the previous goverment past the legislation, but

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Speaker 2: obviously at that time the police's advice to the police

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Speaker 2: ministers at the system, you couldn't sustain the change. There

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Speaker 2: needs to be some investment of that. But that has

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Speaker 2: happened and the police are now making the changes to

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Speaker 2: the system so they can issue finds. It's pretty hard

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Speaker 2: to apply discretion. Because I'm a huge supporter of police discretion,

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Speaker 2: I completely agree because around that, but it's pretty hard

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Speaker 2: to apply discretion. We actually haven't got the option, so

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Speaker 2: it's important that they've got the option.

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Speaker 1: Did they let everyone down by not adhering to the

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Speaker 1: law because the law is the law and they're supposed

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Speaker 1: to enforce the law.

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Speaker 2: Well, they informed the previous government that it was not

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Speaker 2: The government went ahead and passed slation. The advice from

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Speaker 2: the police was is that they couldn't set that up.

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Speaker 2: So you know, obviously now there's been some investment into

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Speaker 2: the system, it's been stabilized, and I've made my exputation

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Speaker 2: is that they operationalize it so that police actually do

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Speaker 2: genuinely have discretion.

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Speaker 3: Do you accept that, Jinny, My understanding, and this is

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Speaker 3: just from a memory, is that they couldn't do it immediately,

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Speaker 3: but there was a plan in place to do it

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Speaker 3: over time, and we were happy with that. Look, I'm

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Speaker 3: pleased that Mark is enforcing it. The government has been

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Speaker 3: very permissive around smoking by leaving smoke free go, so

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Speaker 3: I'm pleased you're taking a stance and enforcing this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, formal warnings. Mark seventy thousand formal warnings. And this

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Speaker 1: is unrelated to what I just mentioned before. It came

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Speaker 1: out of a court case and you issue a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of formal warnings. Turns out the court says that

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Speaker 1: if you wish you a formal warning and the person goes,

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Speaker 1: I'm not guilty, that formal warning is illegal. What do

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Speaker 1: you do about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the final of the court. So the

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Speaker 2: police have to respond to that and look, in some

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Speaker 2: cases that's probably a few calls that you know, if

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Speaker 2: you're going to get a formal warning, then it should

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Speaker 2: be based on the fact that there's an admission of guilt,

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Speaker 2: especially on the upper end of things. But so yeah,

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Speaker 2: the courts obviously found that the police are having to

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Speaker 2: respond to it. Look, the reality of it is formal

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Speaker 2: warnings and alternative actions went through the roof under the

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Speaker 2: previous government because they made legislation changes around the enforcement

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Speaker 2: of drug offending to a health based approach, which removed

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Speaker 2: some of that discretion that police said. And of course,

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Speaker 2: you know when you've got a target like we're reducing

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Speaker 2: the prisons muster by thirty percent, the police of course

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Speaker 2: are pushed into a space where you see a big

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Speaker 2: increase in formal warnings and alternative actions.

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Speaker 3: So I just like to comment on that. So pre

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Speaker 3: charge warnings were brought in under the John Key government.

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Speaker 3: They had a goal of reducing by nineteen percent those

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Speaker 3: coming into the system and they got to twenty five percent.

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Speaker 3: So if you look back and look at the biggest

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Speaker 3: reductions in police arrest that comes under John Key and

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Speaker 3: that two thousand and eight section, and that was the

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Speaker 3: introduction of pre charge warnings. It was most definitely done

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Speaker 3: under a national government.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's do that.

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Speaker 2: There's a place. There's a place for warnings, but there's

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Speaker 2: not a place for the charge formal warning increase.

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Speaker 3: Recharge formal warnings was brought in. I was working in

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Speaker 3: police at the time. Mark, I remember pre charge.

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Speaker 2: There's a place and there's an important place for that, Judy.

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Speaker 2: I'm not arguing with you at all, but what I'm

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Speaker 2: saying to you is this under the previous government has

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Speaker 2: been a huge increase because the policy settings that you

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Speaker 2: put were around a reduction of the prison center. The

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Speaker 2: prison must be thirty percent, a lesson increased to all

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Speaker 2: turn in evections, which might I'm.

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Speaker 3: Keeping to provide you with the data like at that

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Speaker 3: pre charge warning brocketed up. The first time they came

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Speaker 3: in was under the last national government. And that's when

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Speaker 3: you hit the crystal pass. Locate that's bought and we

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Speaker 3: can go back and find the data.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you a more broad based question to

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Speaker 1: try and depoliticize this Potarch is under some sort of

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Speaker 1: heat at the moment from various forms of the media

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Speaker 1: who seem to think that the claim that you've gone

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Speaker 1: and got a whole lot of people out of emergency housing,

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Speaker 1: and you can't give me the addresses to where they've gone.

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Speaker 1: Somehow an issue, Ginny, is it reasonable to think that

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Speaker 1: a government tracks a person who goes from government assistance

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Speaker 1: to non government assistants for the rest of their life

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Speaker 1: and somehow can when I ask you, it seems to

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Speaker 1: me the stupidest story in the history of the world.

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Speaker 1: If somebody is no longer on the government assistance, they've

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Speaker 1: moved on with their life, why should the government know

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Speaker 1: where they went and.

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Speaker 2: What they did.

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Speaker 3: I think the point they're trying to make is that

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Speaker 3: if the government stopped big housing builds, they've stopped good

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Speaker 3: in crime or order housing and numerous areas around the

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. And then they're boasting that the number of

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Speaker 3: people in emergency or housing has reduced. Well, if there's

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Speaker 3: no more housing, and where have they gone? And the

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Speaker 3: answer is they're on the street. And I was in

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Speaker 3: Auckland last week and I talked to Aaron Hendry who

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Speaker 3: was working with a couple who are sixteen that had

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Speaker 3: their benefits. They'd been kicked out of emergency housing and

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Speaker 3: they're on the street. So that's why we're seeing issues

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Speaker 3: in Central Wellington and Central Auckland with increased homelessness is

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Speaker 3: because people are being kicked out of homes and that's

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Speaker 3: the point they're making.

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Speaker 2: Mark.

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Speaker 1: I suppose the point is if you're going to claim

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Speaker 1: thirty three percent or whatever the number was, reduction in

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Speaker 1: emergency housing and suddenly you can produce thirty three percent

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Speaker 1: increase in number of people on the streets and cars,

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Speaker 1: there's your problem, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that hasn't happened. And I do agree with you,

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Speaker 2: is that it's a nanny state for the government to

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Speaker 2: start poking into people's lives and finding out what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: So you know that the reality of it is the

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Speaker 2: incoming government is that we had a big issue around

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Speaker 2: emergency housing. There were lots of houses that were standing empty.

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Speaker 2: Tama has really turned his mind to us, worked with

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Speaker 2: Chris Bishop and they seem to be delivering some really

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Speaker 2: good results. It's a really positive story in relation to

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Speaker 2: in relation to people living on the streets. Look, our

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Speaker 2: Auckland CBD is becoming safe again. It's early days, but

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Speaker 2: we're moving in the right direction. That's because I've pulled

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Speaker 2: together a group of CPN z to Marry Wooden's Police Council,

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Speaker 2: Koster Business Associations, the City Mission, our social service providers

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Speaker 2: and the local MP and we're all working together and

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Speaker 2: we're actually delivering really good results.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Jinny, quick quickly if you can. There was a

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Speaker 1: report out on corruption and lobbyists and we need to

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Speaker 1: change the rules and donations to parties and all that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. When you were a minister of whatever

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Speaker 1: you're a minister of at the time, were you lobbied

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Speaker 1: where you lobbied heavily and did you ever think, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you what, this is a bit much and we

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Speaker 1: need some rules around.

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Speaker 2: This or not.

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Speaker 3: You always are lobbied, and that's where you did really

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Speaker 3: good staff around you to help and ensure that you've

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Speaker 3: got good practices in place. I think we probably do

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Speaker 3: need to take a look at those rules. Particularly. I

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Speaker 3: just can't believe that we've got someone like nicrol McKee

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Speaker 3: rewriting our gun laws. She was elected on being a

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Speaker 3: gun lobbyist and now she's responsible for rewriting our arms.

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Speaker 1: Jury as she was elected.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but there needs to be.

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Speaker 3: Better checks and balances on what's happening in that space.

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Speaker 3: The fact we can find ourselves. Like New Zealand has

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Speaker 3: got a gun lobbyist who want to see military style

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Speaker 3: semi automatic weapons that being used on rangers, and now

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Speaker 3: she has she got already every writing at armchacky.

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Speaker 2: Belong to it.

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Speaker 1: I saw you in the house yesterday. I saw what

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Speaker 1: you were trying to do. But at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, and I know you disagree with it, and

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Speaker 1: I get all of that. But she's a duly elected MP,

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Speaker 1: has been given a job and she's going to write

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Speaker 1: to do the job.

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Speaker 3: But what ticks and balances are in place about the

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Speaker 3: influencers and the way she's consulting, But she's not consulting.

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Speaker 1: Called the Parliament and people voting, and people have their

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Speaker 1: saying it's a democratic process and you may not like it,

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Speaker 1: but it's unfolding the way it normally does.

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Speaker 3: I think we're going to see some more in that

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Speaker 3: space as it rolls out, because I don't think national

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Speaker 3: are happy with her getting rid of the gun registry.

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Speaker 1: And no, I know you're not happy with it the

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Speaker 1: heart of it, are you, Mike.

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Speaker 2: No, we're not getting rid of the gun industry. It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: It's pilot with coalition there's pile of coalition agreement were

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Speaker 2: that we would do a review of the gun registry

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Speaker 2: to make sure that it's affective.

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Speaker 3: And the factors that you're just going to do a review,

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Speaker 3: but it's not going to go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: And so and so there will be a review, but

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Speaker 2: I can assure you as the police butter so the

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Speaker 2: gun registry is going nowhare market.

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Speaker 1: Lobbying and corruption. Is there a corruption in this country?

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Speaker 1: And are you lobbied? Are you lobbied heavily and to

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Speaker 1: a point where you think we need you rules?

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Speaker 2: Look me personally, I think that our democracy is one

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Speaker 2: of the most open and transparent and corrupt free democracies

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Speaker 2: of the world. We should be extremely proud of that.

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Speaker 2: We should do whatever we need to continue to safeguard that.

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Speaker 2: But I see my role. I work right across all

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Speaker 2: of the parties in Parliament. I'm a local MP, so

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Speaker 2: people should have open access to me. They should be

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Speaker 2: able to come in and sit down and talk about

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Speaker 2: their issues. You know, that's a big part of being

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Speaker 2: a member of Parliament in New Zealand. You are representative,

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Speaker 2: you are serving the community. So you know, I'd hate

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Speaker 2: to see that any chilling effect on that. In terms

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Speaker 2: of lobbying, we all get lobbied. That's sort of open

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Speaker 2: democracy is a bit people take very strong positions on things,

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Speaker 2: but you know, as long as we're transparent, as long

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Speaker 2: as we're very open, as long as we have safeguards

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Speaker 2: in place, then I think that's easily manageable.

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Speaker 1: Good to see you both, make Mitchell Ginny Anderson for

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Speaker 1: another Wednesday Morning.

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Speaker 2: For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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