1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,893 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this 2 00:00:13,053 --> 00:00:17,853 Speaker 1: and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:19,253 --> 00:00:22,253 Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle of Drum Dickney Scy. 4 00:00:23,813 --> 00:00:32,813 Speaker 1: Tryst get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby 5 00:00:32,853 --> 00:00:36,453 Speaker 1: Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News 6 00:00:36,533 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 1: Talks EDB. 7 00:00:37,453 --> 00:00:40,893 Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Folklib Solutions, lifting you 8 00:00:41,013 --> 00:00:44,933 Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith and 9 00:00:45,053 --> 00:00:49,253 Speaker 2: with me Liam Napier, New Zealand Herald Rugby Writer. We 10 00:00:49,413 --> 00:00:52,213 Speaker 2: are in Perth on a Sunday morning, about to sign 11 00:00:52,213 --> 00:00:55,053 Speaker 2: off from our duties. But we couldn't leave our podcast 12 00:00:55,133 --> 00:00:57,973 Speaker 2: family with nothing that listened to before we hit it 13 00:00:58,013 --> 00:01:00,453 Speaker 2: back across the ditch. So one more for the ditch, 14 00:01:00,613 --> 00:01:03,533 Speaker 2: One for the ditch, Liam, and we sit here on 15 00:01:03,573 --> 00:01:05,733 Speaker 2: a Sunday morning, reflected on the All Blacks twenty eight 16 00:01:05,853 --> 00:01:10,733 Speaker 2: fourteen win over Australia at OPTAs Stadium in Perth, first 17 00:01:10,773 --> 00:01:13,573 Speaker 2: time they got back to back wins in this Rugby Championship. 18 00:01:14,693 --> 00:01:17,853 Speaker 2: It was a wets game, especially in the second half. 19 00:01:17,893 --> 00:01:21,133 Speaker 2: Conditions didn't come to play as much as probably the 20 00:01:21,133 --> 00:01:22,853 Speaker 2: All Blacks or the Wallabies would have liked them too. 21 00:01:22,893 --> 00:01:26,653 Speaker 2: But the All Blacks granded out a win twenty eight 22 00:01:26,653 --> 00:01:28,733 Speaker 2: to fourteen. What were your initial top line thoughts on 23 00:01:28,733 --> 00:01:29,373 Speaker 2: that performance. 24 00:01:29,853 --> 00:01:31,133 Speaker 3: It was a very wet day, wasn't it. 25 00:01:31,133 --> 00:01:36,573 Speaker 4: Elliott rain constantly pretty much throughout Saturday and a bit 26 00:01:36,653 --> 00:01:40,733 Speaker 4: round today as well, which did make handling difficult. 27 00:01:41,413 --> 00:01:43,573 Speaker 3: Look, I think it was a step forward for the 28 00:01:43,573 --> 00:01:44,133 Speaker 3: All Blacks. 29 00:01:44,733 --> 00:01:48,693 Speaker 4: They've been searching for that consistency having gone win loss, win, loss, 30 00:01:48,693 --> 00:01:52,253 Speaker 4: win loss, but I think it's only a small one. 31 00:01:53,173 --> 00:01:56,453 Speaker 4: I'm still not totally convinced about this All Black team. 32 00:01:56,733 --> 00:02:01,293 Speaker 4: There were some pleasing aspects, particularly on an individual standpoints. 33 00:02:01,533 --> 00:02:04,973 Speaker 4: Quinta pirate Center it was a real standout, particularly given 34 00:02:05,013 --> 00:02:09,213 Speaker 4: the fact that it's an unfamiliar position. Talked to him postgame, 35 00:02:09,253 --> 00:02:12,493 Speaker 4: didn't we and he talked about he was actually training 36 00:02:12,573 --> 00:02:15,613 Speaker 4: on the Monday on the wing, and then he was 37 00:02:16,653 --> 00:02:21,213 Speaker 4: named on the Tuesday internally at center with no heads up, 38 00:02:21,293 --> 00:02:24,333 Speaker 4: so real surprise to him. So given that context, in 39 00:02:24,373 --> 00:02:26,733 Speaker 4: the fact that he'd barely played there in the last 40 00:02:26,773 --> 00:02:31,053 Speaker 4: five years, that was a brilliant performance for him. From 41 00:02:31,053 --> 00:02:33,493 Speaker 4: a team perspective, I think the All Blacks were on 42 00:02:33,533 --> 00:02:37,013 Speaker 4: the rack early, but they found a way through it 43 00:02:37,373 --> 00:02:40,293 Speaker 4: and I think tactically in the second half they bossed 44 00:02:40,813 --> 00:02:41,613 Speaker 4: the territory. 45 00:02:42,093 --> 00:02:43,413 Speaker 3: They played to the conditions. 46 00:02:44,213 --> 00:02:46,653 Speaker 4: Damien McKenzie, who I didn't think had a great match, 47 00:02:47,013 --> 00:02:49,333 Speaker 4: did step up and kick a couple of big penalties 48 00:02:49,813 --> 00:02:53,053 Speaker 4: and then George Bauer finishes the job at the end 49 00:02:53,053 --> 00:02:55,773 Speaker 4: with his first professional try. I think it was in 50 00:02:55,773 --> 00:02:59,973 Speaker 4: his one hundred and fortieth first class match, so nice 51 00:03:00,013 --> 00:03:02,493 Speaker 4: moment for him. But I think when the All Blacks 52 00:03:02,533 --> 00:03:05,893 Speaker 4: sit down to reflect on this Rugby Championship, Scott Barrett 53 00:03:05,933 --> 00:03:09,573 Speaker 4: mentioned the fact that there's a few scars there, harsh 54 00:03:09,653 --> 00:03:15,213 Speaker 4: lessons and I think it's another underwhelming tournament tournament for 55 00:03:15,213 --> 00:03:15,773 Speaker 4: the All Blacks. 56 00:03:16,133 --> 00:03:18,973 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to those scars in a moment or two. Look, 57 00:03:19,333 --> 00:03:22,653 Speaker 2: it wasn't a convincing performance necessarily from the All Blacks. 58 00:03:22,773 --> 00:03:26,373 Speaker 2: But even when Australia scored that try to get back 59 00:03:26,573 --> 00:03:31,093 Speaker 2: close in the second spell to what was it twenty fourteen, 60 00:03:31,133 --> 00:03:33,813 Speaker 2: I think it was I didn't feel like they were 61 00:03:33,853 --> 00:03:38,453 Speaker 2: in a huge danger of losing that game. Australia had 62 00:03:38,453 --> 00:03:40,693 Speaker 2: that try scrubbed out early on in the game and 63 00:03:40,733 --> 00:03:43,173 Speaker 2: that could have changed the momentum. But call back for 64 00:03:43,373 --> 00:03:48,213 Speaker 2: the Tom Hooper neck roll Crock Roll. Even when they 65 00:03:48,213 --> 00:03:49,813 Speaker 2: scored that try it fell out. The All Blacks just 66 00:03:49,893 --> 00:03:52,413 Speaker 2: always had their noses in the front and head the 67 00:03:52,453 --> 00:03:57,293 Speaker 2: game and their control. I thought the defense was pretty 68 00:03:57,293 --> 00:04:00,293 Speaker 2: good apart from that one blemish later on the game, 69 00:04:00,333 --> 00:04:04,373 Speaker 2: but otherwise, when Australia threatened, the All Blacks would always 70 00:04:04,413 --> 00:04:06,813 Speaker 2: come up with a way to snuff it out, and 71 00:04:07,293 --> 00:04:09,453 Speaker 2: I think that was probably the most pleasing aspect of 72 00:04:09,453 --> 00:04:12,533 Speaker 2: the performance. I think attacking wise, there was some glimpses, 73 00:04:12,613 --> 00:04:15,493 Speaker 2: some moments where it looked like it was coming together, 74 00:04:16,373 --> 00:04:19,013 Speaker 2: but for large periods of the game they weren't able 75 00:04:19,053 --> 00:04:22,213 Speaker 2: to really string together attacking phases that hurt the Wallabies. 76 00:04:22,213 --> 00:04:24,813 Speaker 2: They were just playing with possession, able to use this 77 00:04:24,893 --> 00:04:27,533 Speaker 2: scrum as a weapon for large periods. But it was 78 00:04:27,573 --> 00:04:30,013 Speaker 2: a sort of weird performance in anyways, because I felt 79 00:04:30,053 --> 00:04:32,533 Speaker 2: never the All Blacks, you know, and even in the 80 00:04:32,573 --> 00:04:35,213 Speaker 2: late stagers were in danger of losing, but they didn't 81 00:04:35,253 --> 00:04:37,733 Speaker 2: assert their dominance as much as they perhaps could have. 82 00:04:38,613 --> 00:04:41,773 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's fair, And look, the conditions were 83 00:04:41,773 --> 00:04:45,293 Speaker 4: a factor, and so was Matthew Carley the referee. He 84 00:04:45,373 --> 00:04:49,893 Speaker 4: blew twenty eight penalties and I think we've seen two 85 00:04:49,893 --> 00:04:53,213 Speaker 4: weeks in a row, referees become a real focal point 86 00:04:53,413 --> 00:04:59,893 Speaker 4: of a stop start, truncated spectacle, and that's a frustration 87 00:04:59,973 --> 00:05:02,413 Speaker 4: because these were two teams that did want to play 88 00:05:02,773 --> 00:05:05,293 Speaker 4: even in the condition, so that I think that had 89 00:05:05,333 --> 00:05:09,253 Speaker 4: an impact. You mentioned the scrum Blocks did use that 90 00:05:09,333 --> 00:05:11,453 Speaker 4: well even without Ethan de Groot. 91 00:05:12,013 --> 00:05:13,453 Speaker 3: The line out was a wee bit shaky. 92 00:05:14,653 --> 00:05:19,013 Speaker 4: I thought the Wallabies largely won the breakdown again Fraser mcwright, 93 00:05:19,093 --> 00:05:22,613 Speaker 4: a couple of big penalties there so, and I think 94 00:05:22,653 --> 00:05:25,813 Speaker 4: we saw the recurrence of some issues under the high 95 00:05:25,853 --> 00:05:27,053 Speaker 4: ball without Caleb Clark. 96 00:05:27,413 --> 00:05:30,613 Speaker 3: So there's some common themes there which worry me. 97 00:05:30,653 --> 00:05:32,813 Speaker 4: With the All Blacks to break down the high ball 98 00:05:33,613 --> 00:05:35,453 Speaker 4: and the lineout has been a bit shaky this year. 99 00:05:35,453 --> 00:05:38,173 Speaker 4: The Wallabies also considered two yellow cards. You mentioned one. 100 00:05:39,053 --> 00:05:41,453 Speaker 4: The All Blacks didn't score a point when the Wallabies 101 00:05:41,453 --> 00:05:44,493 Speaker 4: would twice down to fourteen men, so I think still 102 00:05:45,253 --> 00:05:48,693 Speaker 4: lacking that ruthlessness. But look they scored four tries to 103 00:05:48,733 --> 00:05:54,293 Speaker 4: one and there were some really thought some individuals stood up. 104 00:05:54,413 --> 00:05:57,493 Speaker 4: And also the context of this is the All Blacks 105 00:05:57,493 --> 00:06:01,533 Speaker 4: are missing Bowden, Barrett, Caleb Clark, Ethan de Groot and Tuprouvai, 106 00:06:01,693 --> 00:06:06,653 Speaker 4: who sounds like seasons over with the knee injury and Lomax. 107 00:06:06,773 --> 00:06:10,533 Speaker 4: So you are to get into your depth, and there 108 00:06:10,533 --> 00:06:12,653 Speaker 4: were some players that stood up were mentioned to pire 109 00:06:13,093 --> 00:06:15,893 Speaker 4: Lester Finelook, who had a couple of big carries. I 110 00:06:15,893 --> 00:06:19,293 Speaker 4: thought Peter Luckeye was really good at number eights, but 111 00:06:19,333 --> 00:06:21,533 Speaker 4: then also some questions as well. I don't think Damien 112 00:06:21,573 --> 00:06:24,693 Speaker 4: McKenzie took his chance. He was better in the second half, 113 00:06:24,693 --> 00:06:31,213 Speaker 4: but he wasn't authoritative, and Ruben Love gets seven or 114 00:06:31,213 --> 00:06:37,213 Speaker 4: eight minutes off the bench, and that's clearly a lack 115 00:06:37,253 --> 00:06:39,613 Speaker 4: of trust in them. So he still hasn't had any 116 00:06:39,653 --> 00:06:42,453 Speaker 4: time at first five and I don't. 117 00:06:42,253 --> 00:06:43,733 Speaker 3: Think that was two years for the All Blacks. 118 00:06:43,733 --> 00:06:45,253 Speaker 2: I don't think that was the kind of game plan 119 00:06:45,373 --> 00:06:47,493 Speaker 2: the game where you could have put him in at ten. 120 00:06:48,493 --> 00:06:51,733 Speaker 2: The game was in the balance. I think there was 121 00:06:51,733 --> 00:06:53,653 Speaker 2: a feeling that you needed to keep your game driver 122 00:06:53,813 --> 00:06:57,373 Speaker 2: in the seat, and disrupting that by bringing in Love 123 00:06:57,413 --> 00:07:02,293 Speaker 2: for the closing ten minutes could have actually made things worse. Now. 124 00:07:02,373 --> 00:07:04,253 Speaker 2: I don't think Dami ckenzy had a great game either, 125 00:07:04,413 --> 00:07:08,573 Speaker 2: but I think if you put Love in in it, 126 00:07:08,573 --> 00:07:11,133 Speaker 2: it could disrupt that momentum that the All Blacks have 127 00:07:11,253 --> 00:07:12,893 Speaker 2: is they try to close out the game and ultimately 128 00:07:12,933 --> 00:07:14,773 Speaker 2: that needs to be the most important thing rather than 129 00:07:14,813 --> 00:07:16,853 Speaker 2: getting Love minutes at ten. 130 00:07:18,053 --> 00:07:22,733 Speaker 4: Maybe he's been there two years though, and look if 131 00:07:22,813 --> 00:07:25,773 Speaker 4: Mackenzie goes down or barretts. 132 00:07:25,933 --> 00:07:27,533 Speaker 2: This is the first year though that he's been seen 133 00:07:27,573 --> 00:07:29,533 Speaker 2: as a ten in the All Works environment. Last year 134 00:07:29,533 --> 00:07:33,053 Speaker 2: you have a pair of fiddle was around very much. 135 00:07:33,413 --> 00:07:33,573 Speaker 3: You know. 136 00:07:33,653 --> 00:07:37,133 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just think there's a real disparity in the messaging. 137 00:07:37,413 --> 00:07:41,293 Speaker 4: You know, bill Blacks are talking about their confidence in 138 00:07:41,373 --> 00:07:43,493 Speaker 4: him and how he's doing so well at training, and 139 00:07:43,493 --> 00:07:45,533 Speaker 4: then they're not giving him any time at ten. And 140 00:07:45,653 --> 00:07:47,893 Speaker 4: I think there is a lack of depth at ten 141 00:07:48,333 --> 00:07:50,693 Speaker 4: and he does need some exposure at some point. And 142 00:07:50,733 --> 00:07:53,293 Speaker 4: if it wasn't going to come last night, then the 143 00:07:53,293 --> 00:07:56,853 Speaker 4: only potential opportunity that I see on the horizon is 144 00:07:56,893 --> 00:07:59,293 Speaker 4: maybe against Wales in the last Test of the year. 145 00:07:59,333 --> 00:08:01,693 Speaker 4: So there is a scenario where Ruben of Love doesn't 146 00:08:01,693 --> 00:08:03,613 Speaker 4: play ten this whole year for the All Blacks. 147 00:08:04,133 --> 00:08:07,133 Speaker 2: Again, I mean, he's barely played ten for the Hurricanes, 148 00:08:07,333 --> 00:08:09,053 Speaker 2: and you know, there's got He's got a lot of 149 00:08:09,813 --> 00:08:11,613 Speaker 2: people out there saying that he should have played ten 150 00:08:11,773 --> 00:08:13,973 Speaker 2: in this game alone, but he's you know, only started 151 00:08:13,973 --> 00:08:15,613 Speaker 2: really playing there for the Hurricanes and the back end 152 00:08:15,653 --> 00:08:18,053 Speaker 2: of that Super Rugby season. There's that enough to be 153 00:08:18,333 --> 00:08:19,333 Speaker 2: in All Blacks ten. 154 00:08:20,333 --> 00:08:22,613 Speaker 4: I think then they need to start developing that depth 155 00:08:22,653 --> 00:08:28,493 Speaker 4: there because Boden Barracks is what thirty five Damien mckins 156 00:08:28,573 --> 00:08:29,773 Speaker 4: is going to be around a while. I know they 157 00:08:29,853 --> 00:08:33,653 Speaker 4: getting wrong and back next year, but and behind them 158 00:08:34,013 --> 00:08:38,373 Speaker 4: there's a real lack of options I think, so I 159 00:08:38,373 --> 00:08:40,493 Speaker 4: would have liked to see them given them the last 160 00:08:40,973 --> 00:08:45,133 Speaker 4: ten to fifteen minutes. What about the record eleven in 161 00:08:45,133 --> 00:08:48,573 Speaker 4: a row against the Wallabies, that's not all owing to 162 00:08:49,053 --> 00:08:51,773 Speaker 4: Scott Robinson. I think that they've got four of those, 163 00:08:53,093 --> 00:08:57,493 Speaker 4: but the eclipses the eight to twenty ten and I 164 00:08:57,493 --> 00:09:00,053 Speaker 4: guess you know, there has been a real ground swell 165 00:09:00,093 --> 00:09:02,533 Speaker 4: around the Wallabies this year on the back of the 166 00:09:02,573 --> 00:09:05,973 Speaker 4: British and Irish Lions. They winner Alice Park, but they've 167 00:09:06,013 --> 00:09:08,453 Speaker 4: also now lost three in a row and eleven in 168 00:09:08,493 --> 00:09:11,013 Speaker 4: a row to the All Blacks and I thought we 169 00:09:11,053 --> 00:09:13,533 Speaker 4: saw them slip backed into some pretty bad habits last night. 170 00:09:13,573 --> 00:09:14,973 Speaker 3: I was really quite disappointed. 171 00:09:15,293 --> 00:09:18,413 Speaker 4: They started well but they faded really badly, a lot 172 00:09:18,413 --> 00:09:21,773 Speaker 4: of ill discipline, a lot of inaccuracy taintied minute ten 173 00:09:21,933 --> 00:09:26,373 Speaker 4: was really underwhelming. So I think there's some some worries 174 00:09:26,413 --> 00:09:27,293 Speaker 4: there for the Wallabies too. 175 00:09:27,413 --> 00:09:31,613 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I don't think Ben's a Test player. Kuaike 176 00:09:31,693 --> 00:09:33,893 Speaker 2: Cooper's came out of the same judgment this morning. I've 177 00:09:33,933 --> 00:09:37,493 Speaker 2: been seeing on social media good super rugby player, but 178 00:09:37,533 --> 00:09:39,213 Speaker 2: I think is out of his depth at Test level. 179 00:09:39,293 --> 00:09:43,173 Speaker 2: And look, there was a big opportunity for him potentially 180 00:09:43,253 --> 00:09:45,253 Speaker 2: last night, but I just don't think that he's a 181 00:09:46,133 --> 00:09:49,853 Speaker 2: kind of Test ten that the Wallabies need. And I 182 00:09:49,853 --> 00:09:52,013 Speaker 2: think there's a big question marks there because James O'Connor 183 00:09:52,093 --> 00:09:53,813 Speaker 2: might have played his last Test and maybe they'll get 184 00:09:53,853 --> 00:09:56,053 Speaker 2: him out for the end of the year tour potentially, 185 00:09:56,933 --> 00:09:59,253 Speaker 2: but with Tom Liner injured and they don't seem to 186 00:09:59,293 --> 00:10:03,453 Speaker 2: have a huge amount of trusted him thrust of him 187 00:10:03,533 --> 00:10:06,533 Speaker 2: for the Lion series. But I think question marks still 188 00:10:06,573 --> 00:10:08,853 Speaker 2: on him. Ben Doaldson not in the squad, carent you 189 00:10:08,853 --> 00:10:12,253 Speaker 2: know they're still searching for that ten the Wallabies. So yeah, 190 00:10:12,253 --> 00:10:13,933 Speaker 2: I think they took a step backwards. And it's interesting 191 00:10:14,013 --> 00:10:16,733 Speaker 2: you mentioned that that winning streak that they've had the 192 00:10:16,733 --> 00:10:19,613 Speaker 2: all Blacks over the Wallabies have come with two coaches 193 00:10:19,653 --> 00:10:22,573 Speaker 2: that have been under fire for a lot of their tenures. 194 00:10:22,613 --> 00:10:26,173 Speaker 2: Ian Foster with what's seven of those wins? I think 195 00:10:26,533 --> 00:10:29,213 Speaker 2: last win for the Wallabies was in twenty twenty now 196 00:10:29,253 --> 00:10:33,733 Speaker 2: Scott Robertson with the last four since he took charge. 197 00:10:33,773 --> 00:10:37,053 Speaker 2: So for all the I guess the clamoring and you 198 00:10:37,093 --> 00:10:39,253 Speaker 2: know all the noise last week saying the Bledderslough should 199 00:10:39,253 --> 00:10:41,453 Speaker 2: be a three match series. Well, currently the Wallabies are 200 00:10:41,453 --> 00:10:43,893 Speaker 2: in their worst ever streak against the All Blacks so 201 00:10:44,733 --> 00:10:46,813 Speaker 2: you don't deserve a three match series on that basis. 202 00:10:47,253 --> 00:10:49,213 Speaker 4: No, that's right, and it's I think it's five in 203 00:10:49,253 --> 00:10:51,333 Speaker 4: a row. The All Blacks have won on Australian soil 204 00:10:51,373 --> 00:10:53,733 Speaker 4: as well, so it's not like that's just happened at 205 00:10:53,853 --> 00:10:57,373 Speaker 4: Eden Park or in New Zealand's And the way to 206 00:10:57,413 --> 00:11:00,013 Speaker 4: shift that narrative is to get some victories and then 207 00:11:00,053 --> 00:11:03,173 Speaker 4: if you have a few drawn series then you have 208 00:11:03,253 --> 00:11:06,973 Speaker 4: a lot more clout to push for three matches. It's 209 00:11:06,973 --> 00:11:09,533 Speaker 4: hard to fit that in the calendar, but it certainly 210 00:11:09,573 --> 00:11:12,853 Speaker 4: strengthens your argument. So the longer that streak goes on, 211 00:11:13,333 --> 00:11:16,293 Speaker 4: the longer the All Blacks dominance over the Wallabies continues, 212 00:11:16,373 --> 00:11:21,333 Speaker 4: and yeah, I think at the start of this Bleedterslough 213 00:11:21,693 --> 00:11:23,613 Speaker 4: most people would have sat back and said, this is 214 00:11:23,613 --> 00:11:27,613 Speaker 4: the Wallaby's best chance in probably five years to knock 215 00:11:27,653 --> 00:11:29,773 Speaker 4: off the All Blacks and at least one of these 216 00:11:29,813 --> 00:11:31,653 Speaker 4: tests and maybe even regain the Bledders. 217 00:11:31,653 --> 00:11:35,173 Speaker 3: Though, well, it's been much of the same, isn't. 218 00:11:34,973 --> 00:11:38,093 Speaker 2: It It has? And they go on to interview two. Now, 219 00:11:38,093 --> 00:11:40,733 Speaker 2: with three games in a row lost, they play Eddie 220 00:11:40,773 --> 00:11:43,133 Speaker 2: Jones's Japan. That'll be a fun game in Tokyo in 221 00:11:43,453 --> 00:11:47,133 Speaker 2: two or three weeks time. But yeah, before Josement Hans 222 00:11:47,173 --> 00:11:50,373 Speaker 2: the rains over after the Nation's Cup window in July 223 00:11:50,493 --> 00:11:54,293 Speaker 2: next year, there's a fabit to work on for the Wallabies. 224 00:11:54,493 --> 00:11:56,853 Speaker 2: A couple of plays you mentioned there, leicsterifying Anooka coming 225 00:11:56,893 --> 00:11:58,453 Speaker 2: in for his first Test and two years on the 226 00:11:58,493 --> 00:12:00,253 Speaker 2: left wing. I thought he had some moments where he 227 00:12:00,293 --> 00:12:02,933 Speaker 2: looked really good, didn't come a lot his way in 228 00:12:02,973 --> 00:12:05,413 Speaker 2: the second spell, then got subbed and Leroy Carter shifted 229 00:12:05,453 --> 00:12:07,933 Speaker 2: over to that left wing. But I thought it was 230 00:12:07,973 --> 00:12:11,813 Speaker 2: a promise returned from flying Aku that were glimpses of 231 00:12:11,853 --> 00:12:15,293 Speaker 2: what he is able to do. It's interesting. I've got 232 00:12:15,293 --> 00:12:17,533 Speaker 2: a theory that he would have started at center last 233 00:12:17,613 --> 00:12:19,773 Speaker 2: night if not for Caleb Clark been injured, and that 234 00:12:19,853 --> 00:12:22,533 Speaker 2: may not have seen Quinn to Pie play center. He 235 00:12:22,613 --> 00:12:25,653 Speaker 2: might have come off the bench again. So they've got 236 00:12:25,693 --> 00:12:27,613 Speaker 2: nothing to back up that theory. It's just something I 237 00:12:27,653 --> 00:12:30,493 Speaker 2: threw at you a couple of days ago. But Quinta 238 00:12:30,533 --> 00:12:33,893 Speaker 2: Pie took his chance. Lester Fightingku sort of took his chance. 239 00:12:34,613 --> 00:12:37,013 Speaker 2: But what I think we've saw from last night that 240 00:12:37,053 --> 00:12:40,013 Speaker 2: Caleb Clarke will remain the first choice left wing. Leroy 241 00:12:40,053 --> 00:12:44,013 Speaker 2: Carter is making great strides at the moment on the 242 00:12:44,093 --> 00:12:46,693 Speaker 2: right wing. You know, his strength so close to the line. 243 00:12:46,693 --> 00:12:48,573 Speaker 2: He's from Burrow over for that first try for the 244 00:12:48,573 --> 00:12:52,213 Speaker 2: All Blacks to put them up and then you can 245 00:12:52,373 --> 00:12:56,053 Speaker 2: put fighting a Nuoku on the bench. Does that now mean, though, 246 00:12:56,053 --> 00:12:58,133 Speaker 2: that quint to Pire is the first choice center for 247 00:12:58,173 --> 00:12:59,333 Speaker 2: the All Blacks on the basis of that. 248 00:12:59,413 --> 00:13:01,533 Speaker 3: Performance, not on one game. 249 00:13:01,813 --> 00:13:05,893 Speaker 4: No, But look, I think you can say that Quinn 250 00:13:05,933 --> 00:13:10,253 Speaker 4: did more in one test than Billy did in seven 251 00:13:10,293 --> 00:13:13,213 Speaker 4: this year. I think Billy has Billy Proctor has been 252 00:13:13,253 --> 00:13:18,013 Speaker 4: strong defensively at times. But man, that was a statement 253 00:13:18,133 --> 00:13:23,173 Speaker 4: commanding performance from Quinn and it was all over the park. 254 00:13:23,253 --> 00:13:28,253 Speaker 4: You know, he had to scramble. Center is an extremely 255 00:13:28,373 --> 00:13:31,493 Speaker 4: tough position defensively because you've got so much space on 256 00:13:31,533 --> 00:13:34,933 Speaker 4: your outside between yourself and the wing. And he had 257 00:13:34,973 --> 00:13:37,453 Speaker 4: Max Jorgensen on his outside a couple of times, who's 258 00:13:37,453 --> 00:13:39,973 Speaker 4: one of the quickest Wallabies, maybe one of the quickest 259 00:13:40,013 --> 00:13:43,813 Speaker 4: players going around, certainly off the mark, and a couple 260 00:13:43,813 --> 00:13:47,653 Speaker 4: of bootlaced tackles, so defensively I thought he was really good. 261 00:13:47,893 --> 00:13:50,573 Speaker 4: He shifted into second five a couple of times as well. 262 00:13:50,973 --> 00:13:53,853 Speaker 4: He set up Lerocarda's first trial with a massive charge 263 00:13:53,853 --> 00:13:58,413 Speaker 4: off the line out defend on Tom Hooper to score 264 00:13:58,973 --> 00:14:03,573 Speaker 4: his second try, So it really was the full package. 265 00:14:03,573 --> 00:14:05,693 Speaker 4: I was quite surprised to see him replaced stuff to 266 00:14:05,733 --> 00:14:08,333 Speaker 4: fifty five minutes, and I think he certainly looked disappointed 267 00:14:08,453 --> 00:14:12,653 Speaker 4: coming off. But I think it would be hard to 268 00:14:12,693 --> 00:14:15,973 Speaker 4: replace him at center for the next game against Ireland 269 00:14:15,973 --> 00:14:18,533 Speaker 4: in Chicago. But I don't think you could sit here 270 00:14:18,533 --> 00:14:21,893 Speaker 4: and definitively say that he is the guy. 271 00:14:22,533 --> 00:14:23,613 Speaker 3: I agree with you about Leicester. 272 00:14:23,773 --> 00:14:28,693 Speaker 4: I don't think he is a long term wing, starting wing, 273 00:14:28,933 --> 00:14:30,773 Speaker 4: and I think if you asked him there I spoke 274 00:14:30,773 --> 00:14:33,053 Speaker 4: to him during the week and he certainly said that 275 00:14:33,093 --> 00:14:37,013 Speaker 4: his futures in the midfield. He played the back end 276 00:14:37,013 --> 00:14:39,693 Speaker 4: of games on the loose forward in the loose forwards 277 00:14:39,693 --> 00:14:42,293 Speaker 4: for too long, and I think that's. 278 00:14:44,093 --> 00:14:45,093 Speaker 3: He's comfortable there. 279 00:14:45,413 --> 00:14:50,213 Speaker 4: And we saw one charge where he bumped off Suyer Lee. 280 00:14:50,893 --> 00:14:54,693 Speaker 4: That's his strength ball in hands charging. I think he 281 00:14:54,733 --> 00:14:57,573 Speaker 4: could be exposed under the high ball, but I did 282 00:14:57,653 --> 00:14:59,493 Speaker 4: like the way that the All Black scot him involved. 283 00:14:59,893 --> 00:15:02,893 Speaker 4: But I think there's some real options there, aren't there 284 00:15:02,893 --> 00:15:05,293 Speaker 4: when you look at that center position. I thought Jordi 285 00:15:05,333 --> 00:15:07,533 Speaker 4: Barrett was really good again last night, and that's probably 286 00:15:07,573 --> 00:15:09,773 Speaker 4: a reflection of the way too Pier played as well. 287 00:15:09,773 --> 00:15:11,733 Speaker 4: It's sort of you made the comment to me that 288 00:15:11,773 --> 00:15:16,133 Speaker 4: he probably played a more traditional twelve role and maybe 289 00:15:16,133 --> 00:15:17,933 Speaker 4: he was trying to take on too much with Billy 290 00:15:18,013 --> 00:15:20,213 Speaker 4: there in recent weeks. I thought he really sparked Bill 291 00:15:20,253 --> 00:15:23,493 Speaker 4: Blacks with a couple of rubber kicks to Pire's first try. 292 00:15:23,493 --> 00:15:27,533 Speaker 4: I came with the falcon, pretty classic way to get 293 00:15:27,533 --> 00:15:30,373 Speaker 4: a try but a luck. But yeah, I thought that 294 00:15:30,413 --> 00:15:32,133 Speaker 4: combination worked really well, didn't. 295 00:15:31,853 --> 00:15:34,853 Speaker 2: It It did? Yeah, Well, like I think Jury's not 296 00:15:35,213 --> 00:15:37,653 Speaker 2: Jury's out still because it's only one Test match and 297 00:15:38,093 --> 00:15:39,573 Speaker 2: you know Ireland will be a pretty good Test with 298 00:15:39,613 --> 00:15:42,653 Speaker 2: a really strong midfield that they've got, But the Lobbies 299 00:15:42,693 --> 00:15:44,013 Speaker 2: have a good midfield as well. You know we heard 300 00:15:44,053 --> 00:15:46,733 Speaker 2: before the series Eki Tower and so Elite you were 301 00:15:47,053 --> 00:15:49,173 Speaker 2: being talented as one of the best midfield combinations in 302 00:15:49,213 --> 00:15:53,413 Speaker 2: the world. Ikitaw sort of tried last night, but I 303 00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:55,933 Speaker 2: thought both of them have had two quiet Test matches 304 00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:58,733 Speaker 2: and I don't know that Joseph, of course I saw 305 00:15:58,733 --> 00:16:00,853 Speaker 2: a Letty's best position is at thirteen. 306 00:16:01,573 --> 00:16:02,293 Speaker 3: No, I agree with you. 307 00:16:02,373 --> 00:16:04,413 Speaker 4: I think I would like to seem at fullback there's 308 00:16:04,413 --> 00:16:07,333 Speaker 4: more space you can utilize him under the high Borne well, 309 00:16:07,333 --> 00:16:09,133 Speaker 4: I think we only probably or on once in that 310 00:16:09,213 --> 00:16:13,773 Speaker 4: challenge with Jordie Barrett really contest like that. He probably 311 00:16:13,773 --> 00:16:15,453 Speaker 4: sees a wee bit more ball at center, but you 312 00:16:15,493 --> 00:16:18,653 Speaker 4: can get your full back involved more so I would 313 00:16:18,693 --> 00:16:20,293 Speaker 4: like to see him slip back to forward. 314 00:16:20,333 --> 00:16:20,693 Speaker 3: The other. 315 00:16:23,173 --> 00:16:27,333 Speaker 4: I think an important piece of context with Phil Blacks 316 00:16:27,333 --> 00:16:30,053 Speaker 4: in the past two weeks as they've played the Wallabies twice, right, 317 00:16:30,093 --> 00:16:32,453 Speaker 4: and yes they've improved, but they've also lost three in 318 00:16:32,493 --> 00:16:39,333 Speaker 4: a row and they're not the spring box, and that 319 00:16:39,373 --> 00:16:43,093 Speaker 4: they do things differently. They their defense isn't as suffocating 320 00:16:43,173 --> 00:16:45,613 Speaker 4: and I think that particularly in the back climb, and 321 00:16:45,653 --> 00:16:47,853 Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks have enjoyed that a bit 322 00:16:47,893 --> 00:16:50,213 Speaker 4: more space and freedom. So they're not going to have 323 00:16:50,213 --> 00:16:54,173 Speaker 4: that when they come up against Irelands and so those 324 00:16:54,173 --> 00:16:57,133 Speaker 4: are things to consider. So while the All Blacks have 325 00:16:57,253 --> 00:16:59,693 Speaker 4: improved and they put together back to back performances, they've 326 00:16:59,693 --> 00:17:03,613 Speaker 4: both been against the Wallabies, so that leaves me a 327 00:17:03,613 --> 00:17:07,973 Speaker 4: little bit reticent to say they're back or they've definitively 328 00:17:08,653 --> 00:17:09,533 Speaker 4: shifted the needle. 329 00:17:09,653 --> 00:17:11,933 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only three weeks since that. They're very very 330 00:17:11,933 --> 00:17:15,333 Speaker 2: poor performance in Wellington, and as you said, when you're 331 00:17:15,333 --> 00:17:17,893 Speaker 2: in the midst of eleventh game winning streak against the Wallabies, 332 00:17:17,893 --> 00:17:20,133 Speaker 2: it's hard to judge too much on the basis of 333 00:17:20,173 --> 00:17:22,373 Speaker 2: that night. You mentioned the spring Box obviously, and while 334 00:17:22,413 --> 00:17:25,413 Speaker 2: the All Blacks won in Perth, it wasn't enough to 335 00:17:25,413 --> 00:17:29,373 Speaker 2: claim the Rugby Championship, the All Blacks finishing in second. 336 00:17:29,693 --> 00:17:31,813 Speaker 2: A couple of hairy moments for the spring Box. They 337 00:17:31,853 --> 00:17:36,373 Speaker 2: were down thirteen three at one point Argentina scored a 338 00:17:36,453 --> 00:17:40,533 Speaker 2: late try, but ultimately South Africa too good and deserving 339 00:17:40,573 --> 00:17:43,213 Speaker 2: winners of going back to back in the Rugby Championship. 340 00:17:43,253 --> 00:17:46,693 Speaker 2: They were the best team in the comp. Yes, they 341 00:17:46,733 --> 00:17:50,813 Speaker 2: lost two games to the Wallabies in Johannesburg and the 342 00:17:50,853 --> 00:17:53,773 Speaker 2: All Blacks in Auckland, but when they're on they're very 343 00:17:53,813 --> 00:17:56,013 Speaker 2: hard to stop. The spring Box and worthy winners of 344 00:17:56,333 --> 00:17:58,053 Speaker 2: the Rugby Championship. 345 00:17:57,773 --> 00:18:01,933 Speaker 4: They are, indeed, but it did only come via points 346 00:18:01,933 --> 00:18:06,053 Speaker 4: differential because of that record loss for the All Blacks 347 00:18:06,373 --> 00:18:10,973 Speaker 4: and Wellington, and I think that speaks to the competitive 348 00:18:11,093 --> 00:18:14,133 Speaker 4: nature of this tournament. It's been brilliant, hasn't it Very 349 00:18:14,173 --> 00:18:18,613 Speaker 4: highly unpredictable, and even that game last night, the Pumbas 350 00:18:18,613 --> 00:18:22,533 Speaker 4: are right in it had their chances. So I think 351 00:18:22,573 --> 00:18:26,533 Speaker 4: Southern Hemisphere rugby at test levels in a good space. 352 00:18:27,453 --> 00:18:30,053 Speaker 4: But I don't think anyone could say that the Springboks 353 00:18:30,053 --> 00:18:32,493 Speaker 4: aren't deserving of that title, and the fact they've gone 354 00:18:32,533 --> 00:18:38,373 Speaker 4: back to back really does symbolize where the All Blacks 355 00:18:38,413 --> 00:18:39,573 Speaker 4: are at I think as well. I think that the 356 00:18:39,573 --> 00:18:41,733 Speaker 4: All Blacks that are currently ranked third in the world. 357 00:18:42,293 --> 00:18:46,533 Speaker 4: Historically the All Blacks have dominated the Rugby Championship and 358 00:18:46,573 --> 00:18:53,333 Speaker 4: that landscape shifted, hasn't it. And it's ironic, isn't it 359 00:18:53,373 --> 00:18:55,973 Speaker 4: that the Springboks have only now gone back to back 360 00:18:55,973 --> 00:18:57,973 Speaker 4: for the first time in history because the All Blacks 361 00:18:58,533 --> 00:19:03,093 Speaker 4: had such a run and it's another trophy in the 362 00:19:03,093 --> 00:19:04,333 Speaker 4: cabinet for Russy. 363 00:19:04,453 --> 00:19:07,653 Speaker 2: Yeah, Russi continues to collect them. Who is your All 364 00:19:07,653 --> 00:19:10,413 Speaker 2: Blacks player of the Rugby Championship? 365 00:19:11,893 --> 00:19:16,093 Speaker 4: You might have to go first on this one. It's hard, 366 00:19:16,133 --> 00:19:17,973 Speaker 4: isn't because they actually had quite a few changes. 367 00:19:18,413 --> 00:19:18,613 Speaker 2: You know. 368 00:19:18,773 --> 00:19:23,853 Speaker 4: Roygal was exceptional at eden Park, but didn't feature a lot. 369 00:19:25,773 --> 00:19:27,733 Speaker 4: Leeba Ricarda came in and played really well at the 370 00:19:27,773 --> 00:19:32,733 Speaker 4: back end. I'm gonna say, Jordi Barrett, I think from 371 00:19:32,773 --> 00:19:37,773 Speaker 4: a consistency point of view, he made some quite talent plays, 372 00:19:37,973 --> 00:19:41,293 Speaker 4: not necessarily at his best, but I think at times 373 00:19:41,293 --> 00:19:44,133 Speaker 4: he really stood up for the All Blacks in a 374 00:19:44,173 --> 00:19:46,373 Speaker 4: really fluctuating tournament. 375 00:19:46,413 --> 00:19:48,013 Speaker 2: It is a tricky one, isn't it, Because you look 376 00:19:48,053 --> 00:19:49,933 Speaker 2: back right to the start in Argentina feels like a 377 00:19:49,973 --> 00:19:53,733 Speaker 2: lifetime ago. I've had that Argentina League and yeah, kember 378 00:19:53,893 --> 00:19:55,733 Speaker 2: Guard only played two games there were a Carter came 379 00:19:55,773 --> 00:19:58,973 Speaker 2: back in the back end. I would probably go to 380 00:19:59,053 --> 00:20:02,693 Speaker 2: po VII. I thought he was good throughout that series. 381 00:20:02,733 --> 00:20:07,413 Speaker 2: Obviously didn't play last night in Perth, but ultra consistent 382 00:20:07,493 --> 00:20:09,293 Speaker 2: and it's going to be stating to see. I know 383 00:20:09,333 --> 00:20:11,653 Speaker 2: he shifted away from that blindside roll during the course 384 00:20:11,693 --> 00:20:14,133 Speaker 2: of the tournament, moved to Locke, but he's such an 385 00:20:14,133 --> 00:20:16,773 Speaker 2: important part of this team now and now we'll touch 386 00:20:16,813 --> 00:20:18,053 Speaker 2: on this on the second half of the podcast in 387 00:20:18,093 --> 00:20:19,973 Speaker 2: a moment or two. But him being injured is a 388 00:20:19,973 --> 00:20:22,293 Speaker 2: big blow. But trying to pick out an All Blacks 389 00:20:22,333 --> 00:20:26,053 Speaker 2: performer of the Rugby Championship quite difficult given the changes, 390 00:20:26,093 --> 00:20:28,933 Speaker 2: as you mentioned in fluctuations and form two. 391 00:20:29,253 --> 00:20:32,413 Speaker 4: Yeah, big time. I thought Ardie severe when he was captain. 392 00:20:33,533 --> 00:20:35,693 Speaker 4: It seems to elevate his game to another level. He 393 00:20:35,733 --> 00:20:39,053 Speaker 4: had some real inspirational moments you think about, you know, 394 00:20:39,093 --> 00:20:44,693 Speaker 4: the turnovers that mattered or the penalties, but probably didn't 395 00:20:44,693 --> 00:20:50,493 Speaker 4: reach those heights week to week. So and that's the 396 00:20:50,533 --> 00:20:52,693 Speaker 4: same as true of the All Blacks. You know, they 397 00:20:52,693 --> 00:20:56,013 Speaker 4: couldn't sustain that level of performance. So it is tough 398 00:20:56,053 --> 00:20:59,213 Speaker 4: to pick an individual. I think Lee Roccardo was probably 399 00:20:59,213 --> 00:21:02,733 Speaker 4: the biggest mover yep. And for me that's a reflection 400 00:21:03,653 --> 00:21:07,213 Speaker 4: on the selection as well, because Lee, Riccardo, Anemoni and 401 00:21:07,253 --> 00:21:11,773 Speaker 4: Nadaua were clearly the best wings throughout Super Rugby and 402 00:21:11,813 --> 00:21:14,613 Speaker 4: it took the All Black so long to get to 403 00:21:14,653 --> 00:21:18,573 Speaker 4: that point. They went with Sevu and Rico and I 404 00:21:18,653 --> 00:21:23,253 Speaker 4: understand there's loyalty at that level, but we've seen Lero 405 00:21:23,253 --> 00:21:25,853 Speaker 4: Ocarter come in and make a real impression and I 406 00:21:25,853 --> 00:21:29,453 Speaker 4: think you could argue they wasted time to get him 407 00:21:29,493 --> 00:21:30,133 Speaker 4: into the mix. 408 00:21:30,453 --> 00:21:33,293 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was felt like there was some loyalty there where. Traditionally, 409 00:21:33,453 --> 00:21:35,213 Speaker 2: you know, the Wings have been the hot hands the 410 00:21:35,213 --> 00:21:37,173 Speaker 2: players come out of Super Rugby. You think back to 411 00:21:37,893 --> 00:21:40,213 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, I know, near him and the scudd didn't 412 00:21:40,213 --> 00:21:42,373 Speaker 2: come into I think the Wallabies test just before the 413 00:21:42,413 --> 00:21:44,413 Speaker 2: World Cup. But you know, once he took his chance, 414 00:21:44,413 --> 00:21:47,533 Speaker 2: he was in twenty nineteen year George Bridge and Sevarice 415 00:21:47,533 --> 00:21:49,773 Speaker 2: came out of Super Rugby playing really really well. And 416 00:21:50,093 --> 00:21:51,813 Speaker 2: it feels like they've gone away from that a little 417 00:21:51,813 --> 00:21:54,773 Speaker 2: bit in recent times and have been reluctant to do so. 418 00:21:54,853 --> 00:21:56,733 Speaker 2: But for me, you feed the hot hand in terms 419 00:21:56,733 --> 00:21:58,853 Speaker 2: of the Wings and Super Rugby, and that was Leroy Carter, 420 00:21:58,933 --> 00:22:01,133 Speaker 2: that was in Monne Nadawa and now I was seeing, 421 00:22:01,173 --> 00:22:02,893 Speaker 2: you know, Caleb Clarke come back in after not a 422 00:22:02,893 --> 00:22:06,493 Speaker 2: great Super Rugby season and perform as well. So that's 423 00:22:07,213 --> 00:22:11,253 Speaker 2: yea perhaps a conservative nature of Scott Robertson that maybe 424 00:22:11,453 --> 00:22:13,653 Speaker 2: we saw the tide change a little bit and last 425 00:22:13,693 --> 00:22:17,333 Speaker 2: week potentially with you know, the change at number eight 426 00:22:17,333 --> 00:22:19,973 Speaker 2: with Peter Lukeye Quinte Pyra It's center. Maybe this is 427 00:22:20,653 --> 00:22:24,573 Speaker 2: the new selection way going forward, which will be you know, 428 00:22:24,653 --> 00:22:27,013 Speaker 2: perhaps promising as we hit on the end of your tour. 429 00:22:27,373 --> 00:22:29,613 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just think they need to back some players 430 00:22:29,613 --> 00:22:32,933 Speaker 4: and that goes back to Reuben Love or a Luckeye. 431 00:22:33,533 --> 00:22:35,893 Speaker 4: I thought luck it was really good as ball carrying 432 00:22:36,453 --> 00:22:40,533 Speaker 4: as a real point of difference. I'm not sold on 433 00:22:40,573 --> 00:22:43,133 Speaker 4: Simon Parker at this point. I feel like that jersey 434 00:22:43,173 --> 00:22:48,013 Speaker 4: is still contestable. I think there was one occasion where 435 00:22:48,013 --> 00:22:49,853 Speaker 4: he carried really well, but I don't think we're seeing 436 00:22:49,933 --> 00:22:54,813 Speaker 4: enough of that side from for a blind sides, you know, 437 00:22:54,813 --> 00:22:57,253 Speaker 4: I know it was a difficult night, but fumble one 438 00:22:57,293 --> 00:23:00,333 Speaker 4: line out and just hasn't been as prominent as I 439 00:23:00,373 --> 00:23:05,293 Speaker 4: would like. So I feel like, could you look at 440 00:23:05,293 --> 00:23:09,453 Speaker 4: a loose Ford trio of Peter Luckert number so Titi 441 00:23:09,493 --> 00:23:12,373 Speaker 4: at six where he played so well last year Aldie 442 00:23:12,373 --> 00:23:13,173 Speaker 4: at seven. 443 00:23:13,613 --> 00:23:16,013 Speaker 2: You could do who would you bring off the bench 444 00:23:16,053 --> 00:23:19,933 Speaker 2: that regard. Would you bring Parker? Would you Jacobson? 445 00:23:20,613 --> 00:23:21,933 Speaker 3: I think there's a few options there. 446 00:23:22,493 --> 00:23:26,973 Speaker 4: You could have a Carefa who probably hasn't transferred his 447 00:23:27,093 --> 00:23:29,973 Speaker 4: form to from Superman to Test level. You could have 448 00:23:30,013 --> 00:23:35,613 Speaker 4: a Jacobson, maybe a Papa Lege comes again. Somebody's certainly 449 00:23:35,653 --> 00:23:40,053 Speaker 4: with a bit of versatility, Parker potentially, But I feel 450 00:23:40,093 --> 00:23:44,333 Speaker 4: like that that trio and the midfield. 451 00:23:45,653 --> 00:23:46,333 Speaker 3: Up for grabs. 452 00:23:46,413 --> 00:23:48,733 Speaker 2: Indeed, well, speaking of the midfield, we spoke to Quenta 453 00:23:48,773 --> 00:23:52,453 Speaker 2: Pye after full time last night in that two try performance. 454 00:23:52,493 --> 00:23:53,493 Speaker 2: Let's have a listen to that chat. 455 00:23:53,533 --> 00:23:56,533 Speaker 5: Now tries set up another He must be pretty pleased 456 00:23:56,533 --> 00:23:57,853 Speaker 5: with that performance. 457 00:23:57,493 --> 00:24:00,653 Speaker 6: Sitting yeah, position, I haven't played a lot yet and 458 00:24:02,373 --> 00:24:04,253 Speaker 6: you've got a lot of confidence from a midfield partner 459 00:24:04,333 --> 00:24:06,653 Speaker 6: this week and the other boys in the group Billi 460 00:24:06,733 --> 00:24:11,053 Speaker 6: and Anton Reggs, So you're pretty pleased with their performance. 461 00:24:11,253 --> 00:24:13,333 Speaker 5: What were the pictures that you were seeing out there 462 00:24:13,333 --> 00:24:14,453 Speaker 5: against Australians. 463 00:24:14,573 --> 00:24:17,453 Speaker 6: Yeah, we knew there a bit of a soft defense. 464 00:24:18,613 --> 00:24:21,533 Speaker 6: The likes of Sorely and their winners like to make 465 00:24:21,573 --> 00:24:23,813 Speaker 6: you dig right into the line, so that's what we 466 00:24:23,893 --> 00:24:24,613 Speaker 6: trained this week. 467 00:24:25,213 --> 00:24:25,293 Speaker 3: Si. 468 00:24:25,573 --> 00:24:28,253 Speaker 6: You shot out quite a few times, change the picture 469 00:24:28,253 --> 00:24:30,653 Speaker 6: on us a little bit that we were in respecting 470 00:24:30,773 --> 00:24:35,453 Speaker 6: but likes of guys like Leicster able to fight through 471 00:24:35,453 --> 00:24:36,013 Speaker 6: their context. 472 00:24:36,093 --> 00:24:40,293 Speaker 5: So yeah, our statisfying to get the bonus point as well, 473 00:24:40,333 --> 00:24:42,013 Speaker 5: and you know, who knows what happened a few hours time, 474 00:24:42,053 --> 00:24:44,053 Speaker 5: but wrap up with the private championship with the point. 475 00:24:44,373 --> 00:24:48,133 Speaker 6: Yeah, it gives us a chance. Really George Bower's first 476 00:24:48,173 --> 00:24:52,893 Speaker 6: professional try special moment for him and you were seen 477 00:24:53,253 --> 00:24:55,773 Speaker 6: the celebrations from the playing group and the bench. We're 478 00:24:55,813 --> 00:24:56,533 Speaker 6: pretty pleased with that. 479 00:24:57,133 --> 00:25:00,613 Speaker 4: What sort of adjustments if you particularly when it's like 480 00:25:01,213 --> 00:25:02,133 Speaker 4: famillion position. 481 00:25:02,253 --> 00:25:04,973 Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess defensively there's a lot more space to cover, 482 00:25:06,333 --> 00:25:08,333 Speaker 6: so out there to chase down Jorgenson a few times. 483 00:25:09,173 --> 00:25:09,773 Speaker 2: Not used to that. 484 00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:15,253 Speaker 6: And yeah, it's a little bit tougher defensively, a bit 485 00:25:15,253 --> 00:25:16,693 Speaker 6: more space on a tank, which was nice. 486 00:25:16,733 --> 00:25:21,173 Speaker 4: But yeah, and but you still, obviously for the essence 487 00:25:21,173 --> 00:25:23,453 Speaker 4: of your game, you powerful carries. 488 00:25:23,973 --> 00:25:26,013 Speaker 6: Yeah, just sort of try to keep it simple. Really, 489 00:25:27,653 --> 00:25:30,893 Speaker 6: coaches allowed me to do that. Good game plan. We 490 00:25:30,933 --> 00:25:35,613 Speaker 6: want to be physical and fearless, use our forwards up front, 491 00:25:35,853 --> 00:25:39,453 Speaker 6: and we had the likes Oflver myself and Leicster. Pretty 492 00:25:39,493 --> 00:25:41,653 Speaker 6: keen to just get down hold long of carry, so 493 00:25:42,813 --> 00:25:43,773 Speaker 6: I think we showed that to not. 494 00:25:45,333 --> 00:25:46,773 Speaker 4: Was a surprise when you got a coffics in it 495 00:25:47,053 --> 00:25:49,373 Speaker 4: and is it something you would like to continue. 496 00:25:49,013 --> 00:25:51,413 Speaker 6: To Yeah, it was a surprise. I didn't really expect it. 497 00:25:51,573 --> 00:25:54,213 Speaker 6: Monday clarity. I was running on the wing in and 498 00:25:54,813 --> 00:25:57,333 Speaker 6: the name got called at center on Tuesday morning with 499 00:25:57,493 --> 00:26:01,973 Speaker 6: no heads up, so I was all over my detail thought. 500 00:26:02,013 --> 00:26:04,333 Speaker 6: I trained very well there this week. A lot of 501 00:26:04,333 --> 00:26:08,053 Speaker 6: confidence going into the game and yeah, I guess happy 502 00:26:08,053 --> 00:26:12,213 Speaker 6: to play anywhere for this team. Just pretty keen to 503 00:26:12,213 --> 00:26:14,093 Speaker 6: be on the field where that's twelve thirteen when the 504 00:26:14,093 --> 00:26:14,973 Speaker 6: twenty two jumpers. 505 00:26:14,973 --> 00:26:18,773 Speaker 3: So yeah, just lastly, does it feel like a good 506 00:26:18,773 --> 00:26:19,253 Speaker 3: step forward? 507 00:26:19,293 --> 00:26:22,213 Speaker 4: You know those teams decisions one nice, but to go 508 00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:23,813 Speaker 4: back to back how important. 509 00:26:24,093 --> 00:26:27,213 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's something we spoke about. We haven't backed up well. 510 00:26:27,533 --> 00:26:29,693 Speaker 6: A big performances at the Eden Park and then fell 511 00:26:29,693 --> 00:26:33,213 Speaker 6: off the week after, so very satisfying for the scroup. 512 00:26:33,533 --> 00:26:36,213 Speaker 6: It's nice now to have three weeks off and with 513 00:26:36,373 --> 00:26:39,733 Speaker 6: their performance it's good slipping stone into the Northern Tour. 514 00:26:40,093 --> 00:26:41,773 Speaker 2: We'll be back with the second half of Rugby Direct 515 00:26:41,853 --> 00:26:44,933 Speaker 2: right after this. 516 00:26:43,813 --> 00:26:51,293 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 517 00:26:51,333 --> 00:26:54,413 Speaker 2: Every try try it tends sixty sick. Every tackle, put 518 00:26:54,453 --> 00:26:58,653 Speaker 2: back the tackle, get up again a little bit. I 519 00:26:58,733 --> 00:27:04,573 Speaker 2: can't an it's Rugby Direct talk. You're back with Rugby Direct. 520 00:27:04,613 --> 00:27:07,413 Speaker 2: Couple of final things to wash up with fans. We've 521 00:27:07,413 --> 00:27:12,853 Speaker 2: prepared to leave perf Liam. The interview tour squad is 522 00:27:12,893 --> 00:27:15,133 Speaker 2: going to be fascinating. There's a few injuries floating about 523 00:27:15,133 --> 00:27:17,453 Speaker 2: the All Blacks. We wake up this morning and seeing 524 00:27:17,453 --> 00:27:19,813 Speaker 2: that TuS posted on social media that he thinks his 525 00:27:19,973 --> 00:27:22,573 Speaker 2: year is done. That's a big blow as they head 526 00:27:22,613 --> 00:27:26,533 Speaker 2: into the to the Rugby gest to the Grand Slam. 527 00:27:27,653 --> 00:27:30,373 Speaker 2: Torol Lomax possibly out for the year as well, seeing 528 00:27:30,373 --> 00:27:33,573 Speaker 2: a specialist this week, but bar should be back for Chicago. 529 00:27:33,693 --> 00:27:37,213 Speaker 2: Waiting for the news on that. But there's a few 530 00:27:37,253 --> 00:27:39,773 Speaker 2: injuries to juggle. From an All Blacks perspective as they 531 00:27:40,093 --> 00:27:41,653 Speaker 2: prepare for this interview tour. 532 00:27:41,773 --> 00:27:43,853 Speaker 4: There is, and I think you're right to provide, is 533 00:27:43,893 --> 00:27:46,653 Speaker 4: a massive loss. He was among the All Blacks best 534 00:27:46,653 --> 00:27:49,973 Speaker 4: players last year. I don't think we saw the best 535 00:27:50,013 --> 00:27:52,773 Speaker 4: of them at Blindside, but when he went back to 536 00:27:52,853 --> 00:27:57,693 Speaker 4: Locke he was very prominent. He is a physical presence. 537 00:27:57,693 --> 00:28:00,213 Speaker 4: He's great over the ball at the breakdown. That's again 538 00:28:00,373 --> 00:28:02,453 Speaker 4: that's an element of his game he's rarely worked on. 539 00:28:03,093 --> 00:28:05,693 Speaker 4: He has matured to the point where he is called 540 00:28:05,733 --> 00:28:09,453 Speaker 4: the All Blacks line out a number of times this 541 00:28:09,613 --> 00:28:11,813 Speaker 4: year and last year, so he's. 542 00:28:11,613 --> 00:28:12,213 Speaker 3: A big out. 543 00:28:12,293 --> 00:28:16,773 Speaker 4: I think they've got Josh Laud in the squad. Maybe 544 00:28:16,773 --> 00:28:21,693 Speaker 4: Sam Derry comes back into the mix, but Tupo's hard 545 00:28:21,693 --> 00:28:24,653 Speaker 4: to replace because he does a lot and he does 546 00:28:24,693 --> 00:28:27,413 Speaker 4: bring a physical presence. And if you look at Fabian 547 00:28:27,453 --> 00:28:31,933 Speaker 4: Hollands and Sam Darry, I don't think they bring that 548 00:28:31,973 --> 00:28:36,013 Speaker 4: same physical component. Yes, they're great line out figures, but 549 00:28:36,373 --> 00:28:38,613 Speaker 4: Tupo does a lot more, brings a lot more around 550 00:28:38,653 --> 00:28:39,053 Speaker 4: the field. 551 00:28:39,253 --> 00:28:42,653 Speaker 2: He does Darry I think will come in. I would 552 00:28:42,693 --> 00:28:45,333 Speaker 2: like to him. Take a look at Nato Koi as 553 00:28:45,373 --> 00:28:48,413 Speaker 2: well in terms of that Tupo Via replacement, that physical 554 00:28:49,013 --> 00:28:51,973 Speaker 2: nature that Tupo VI brings with ball in hand, but 555 00:28:52,013 --> 00:28:54,813 Speaker 2: also very good at the breakdown. A Koi can play 556 00:28:54,853 --> 00:28:56,973 Speaker 2: a bit of six as well. So if you're looking 557 00:28:57,013 --> 00:29:00,093 Speaker 2: for a light to light replacement Ikoy I think is 558 00:29:00,133 --> 00:29:02,413 Speaker 2: that the guy that maybe comes into the mix for 559 00:29:03,053 --> 00:29:04,573 Speaker 2: the end of year too. I don't think he's too 560 00:29:04,613 --> 00:29:06,333 Speaker 2: far away. He was in the camp earlier in the 561 00:29:06,373 --> 00:29:10,013 Speaker 2: year during the French Series training. I think he's had 562 00:29:10,013 --> 00:29:12,693 Speaker 2: a pretty good NPC season from what I've seen, so 563 00:29:13,133 --> 00:29:15,493 Speaker 2: he could well be in the mix for the end 564 00:29:15,493 --> 00:29:18,053 Speaker 2: of View Tour. They're probably gonna have to dig into 565 00:29:18,053 --> 00:29:21,493 Speaker 2: their prop stocks with Lomax and bring someone in there. 566 00:29:21,893 --> 00:29:24,133 Speaker 2: Barrett should be fine, Ethn degree to be fine. Caleb 567 00:29:24,173 --> 00:29:25,973 Speaker 2: Clark will be fine for the end of View Tour. 568 00:29:27,533 --> 00:29:30,213 Speaker 2: Do you see any other changes to this indiview Tour squad? 569 00:29:30,213 --> 00:29:30,333 Speaker 1: Now? 570 00:29:30,333 --> 00:29:32,213 Speaker 2: I don't have a number on how many they're selecting, 571 00:29:32,293 --> 00:29:35,293 Speaker 2: but it feels like it could go one of two ways. 572 00:29:35,453 --> 00:29:37,893 Speaker 2: They could just roll out the same squad that they've taken, 573 00:29:38,413 --> 00:29:40,933 Speaker 2: or they could maybe take a few risks. Now, there 574 00:29:40,933 --> 00:29:43,373 Speaker 2: are a few guys in this squad that have been 575 00:29:43,413 --> 00:29:47,213 Speaker 2: around the environment for a number of years, and to me, 576 00:29:47,413 --> 00:29:50,613 Speaker 2: I don't see them ever again. They may have been 577 00:29:50,613 --> 00:29:52,693 Speaker 2: in the past, but being features of a Test twenty 578 00:29:52,773 --> 00:29:56,373 Speaker 2: three on a regular basis. So I know you're jotting 579 00:29:56,413 --> 00:29:59,373 Speaker 2: down to listen there, but is it time to maybe 580 00:29:59,573 --> 00:30:01,653 Speaker 2: do you do you roll with those same players or 581 00:30:01,693 --> 00:30:04,093 Speaker 2: do you go we know what they can do, but 582 00:30:04,133 --> 00:30:06,293 Speaker 2: it's time to bring some new players on the interview tour. 583 00:30:07,533 --> 00:30:09,973 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I was making a list hit just guys 584 00:30:09,973 --> 00:30:13,613 Speaker 4: that we haven't seen. Luke Jacobson, Antlina Brown, some a 585 00:30:13,653 --> 00:30:21,333 Speaker 4: Penny female, Brodie McAllister's another one. So I think the 586 00:30:21,453 --> 00:30:25,093 Speaker 4: question is there has the best superior replacement. So one 587 00:30:25,133 --> 00:30:26,813 Speaker 4: area I would like to see the All Blacks move 588 00:30:26,853 --> 00:30:29,173 Speaker 4: ons and dead Wood is in the wings. I would 589 00:30:29,253 --> 00:30:32,333 Speaker 4: not be selecting several Reese Okay for me, his time's 590 00:30:32,373 --> 00:30:35,213 Speaker 4: done and I think there's far more upside and bringing 591 00:30:35,293 --> 00:30:37,373 Speaker 4: in a guy like catin Tongueytowl. 592 00:30:38,493 --> 00:30:39,053 Speaker 3: Just get him in. 593 00:30:40,413 --> 00:30:43,413 Speaker 4: Maybe only plays against Whales by the end of the year, 594 00:30:43,493 --> 00:30:47,093 Speaker 4: but he could be. These are the sort of guys 595 00:30:47,093 --> 00:30:50,533 Speaker 4: that could really kick on next year, so I would 596 00:30:50,533 --> 00:30:53,493 Speaker 4: like to see that happen. I think I suffer ar 597 00:30:53,573 --> 00:30:56,653 Speaker 4: Moore has to come back into the mix for Brodie McAllister. 598 00:30:58,013 --> 00:31:00,093 Speaker 4: I'm not too sure about the midfield. I don't think 599 00:31:00,093 --> 00:31:04,133 Speaker 4: there's a real I don't think there's anyone bashing down 600 00:31:04,173 --> 00:31:06,933 Speaker 4: the door for an Antelina Brown that's going to really 601 00:31:06,973 --> 00:31:10,933 Speaker 4: move the needle and the loose forwards. I wouldn't be 602 00:31:10,933 --> 00:31:13,693 Speaker 4: against a guy like Papa Lu having a second coming. 603 00:31:13,733 --> 00:31:15,733 Speaker 4: I think he's still got a bit to offer at 604 00:31:15,773 --> 00:31:21,973 Speaker 4: this level. He's potentially a bit a versatile. But yeah, 605 00:31:22,013 --> 00:31:23,733 Speaker 4: what about you do you do? You do you move 606 00:31:23,773 --> 00:31:25,893 Speaker 4: on any of those guys? Is there anyone on the 607 00:31:25,893 --> 00:31:28,413 Speaker 4: fringe that that you would that's a must have in 608 00:31:28,453 --> 00:31:29,853 Speaker 4: the squad that's going to be a game change? 609 00:31:29,893 --> 00:31:31,493 Speaker 2: Well that's a tricky thing, isn't They Are there players 610 00:31:31,573 --> 00:31:35,373 Speaker 2: knocking on the doors that are worthy of, you know, 611 00:31:35,413 --> 00:31:39,493 Speaker 2: moving in. I think Papali given two po vised injury, 612 00:31:39,693 --> 00:31:43,973 Speaker 2: given you know, the the uncertainty pat reps over Parker 613 00:31:44,133 --> 00:31:45,533 Speaker 2: and now he's not an out and out sex, but 614 00:31:45,533 --> 00:31:48,293 Speaker 2: I think he's an ideal bench option potentially dalkon Papaliti 615 00:31:48,373 --> 00:31:50,773 Speaker 2: because he can play six, he can obviously play open 616 00:31:50,773 --> 00:31:52,333 Speaker 2: side and it push. You could probably put him an 617 00:31:52,333 --> 00:31:54,653 Speaker 2: eight as well. And I think he's that player that 618 00:31:54,933 --> 00:31:58,173 Speaker 2: is fairly adaptable in a loose ward trio. And look, 619 00:31:58,253 --> 00:32:00,813 Speaker 2: didn't have a great Super Rugby season, but he's a 620 00:32:00,853 --> 00:32:03,173 Speaker 2: player that I'd be looking at for the end of 621 00:32:03,293 --> 00:32:07,853 Speaker 2: year tour. I'm not sure they No hopem is going 622 00:32:07,893 --> 00:32:09,373 Speaker 2: to be fit, but I don't see the point in 623 00:32:09,413 --> 00:32:12,853 Speaker 2: continuing to carry Finlay Christie. I would either take Kyle 624 00:32:12,933 --> 00:32:16,413 Speaker 2: Preston or even look at someone Dylan Pledger as apprentice 625 00:32:16,493 --> 00:32:17,013 Speaker 2: type role. 626 00:32:17,453 --> 00:32:20,893 Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like Paul Keully was reporting that. It 627 00:32:20,973 --> 00:32:23,133 Speaker 4: sounds like he Dylan Pledger will go on the All 628 00:32:23,173 --> 00:32:27,813 Speaker 4: Blacks fifteen to I think they played Georgia and England's. 629 00:32:27,653 --> 00:32:29,413 Speaker 2: A I think bath as We I think got three 630 00:32:29,613 --> 00:32:31,373 Speaker 2: Barbarians or three games in title. 631 00:32:31,653 --> 00:32:35,693 Speaker 4: Yeah, Jamie Joseph leading that team. Dylan Pledger will probably 632 00:32:35,733 --> 00:32:38,973 Speaker 4: go on that tour before he plays Super Rugby, which 633 00:32:39,053 --> 00:32:44,173 Speaker 4: is a real nod to his talents and pedigree. In time, 634 00:32:44,333 --> 00:32:47,013 Speaker 4: I can see it being a roy Garb Pledger double 635 00:32:47,533 --> 00:32:50,373 Speaker 4: and that would be a lethal combination. 636 00:32:50,613 --> 00:32:52,493 Speaker 3: So it's probably too soon. 637 00:32:52,693 --> 00:32:54,733 Speaker 2: Yeah, probably too soon, But I didn't don't see the 638 00:32:54,773 --> 00:32:56,693 Speaker 2: point of continuing to carry Finlay Christie. 639 00:32:56,733 --> 00:32:59,293 Speaker 4: I totally agree, and yeah, not too sure where where 640 00:32:59,293 --> 00:33:04,053 Speaker 4: Hotham's at. But they will take three half backs, three hookers, 641 00:33:05,173 --> 00:33:05,733 Speaker 4: three tens. 642 00:33:05,733 --> 00:33:07,853 Speaker 3: If Reuben love it. 643 00:33:09,573 --> 00:33:13,013 Speaker 2: Who knows you're right there? You know, Anton Lenet Brown 644 00:33:13,133 --> 00:33:15,693 Speaker 2: it look for me. There was a signal this week 645 00:33:15,733 --> 00:33:17,853 Speaker 2: and I may be written too much into it, but 646 00:33:18,253 --> 00:33:20,613 Speaker 2: they put Quinte Pier at thirteen. Now anti Lenet Brown 647 00:33:20,773 --> 00:33:23,053 Speaker 2: is probably a twelve more so than at thirteen. But 648 00:33:23,613 --> 00:33:26,453 Speaker 2: he could have been the solution they found this week 649 00:33:26,493 --> 00:33:28,493 Speaker 2: that decided not to that went with Quinta Pie. It 650 00:33:28,573 --> 00:33:33,933 Speaker 2: paid off. Now I don't know whether Lenet Brown is 651 00:33:33,973 --> 00:33:35,813 Speaker 2: ever going to come again in an All Blacks twenty 652 00:33:35,853 --> 00:33:38,413 Speaker 2: three on a regular basis. It feels like he's a 653 00:33:38,533 --> 00:33:42,173 Speaker 2: potentially a band aid solution, can come off the bench 654 00:33:42,213 --> 00:33:44,213 Speaker 2: and play midfield. But I don't know if he's an 655 00:33:44,253 --> 00:33:46,853 Speaker 2: Austrial an impact player either. So for me, the starts, 656 00:33:46,933 --> 00:33:49,373 Speaker 2: it doesn't in the twenty three, and I can't justify 657 00:33:49,413 --> 00:33:51,973 Speaker 2: a starting role for him at the moment. So there's 658 00:33:52,013 --> 00:33:53,973 Speaker 2: not a better option out there. But I just feel 659 00:33:54,013 --> 00:33:55,613 Speaker 2: like there are players that have been around this All 660 00:33:55,613 --> 00:33:58,893 Speaker 2: Blacks environment for some time that may not ever crack it. 661 00:33:59,293 --> 00:34:01,653 Speaker 2: And yeah, they might not be better options out there, 662 00:34:01,653 --> 00:34:03,933 Speaker 2: but he better off looking at someone that's sort of 663 00:34:03,933 --> 00:34:05,973 Speaker 2: equal or maybe slightly less about you and seeing if 664 00:34:06,013 --> 00:34:08,333 Speaker 2: they can make a leap to test rugby and maybe 665 00:34:08,373 --> 00:34:09,773 Speaker 2: find themselves at Teas rugby. 666 00:34:10,093 --> 00:34:12,853 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think midfield's in a wee bit of a 667 00:34:12,893 --> 00:34:15,973 Speaker 4: state of flux. I mean Jordie's your guy, but centers 668 00:34:16,093 --> 00:34:17,373 Speaker 4: very much up for grabs. 669 00:34:17,693 --> 00:34:19,853 Speaker 3: It's just who was knocking on the door. 670 00:34:19,853 --> 00:34:21,773 Speaker 4: I guess now you've got to pie, You've got Lester 671 00:34:21,853 --> 00:34:26,133 Speaker 4: fining a NOOKU Billy Proctor will still be in that mix. 672 00:34:26,653 --> 00:34:29,413 Speaker 4: And so the other guy spoke about Leonnon Brown. But 673 00:34:31,013 --> 00:34:35,093 Speaker 4: where's Ricoania because he was brought back last night, replaced 674 00:34:35,173 --> 00:34:39,773 Speaker 4: to PI after about fifty five minutes. But when Caleb 675 00:34:39,813 --> 00:34:44,373 Speaker 4: Clark comes back, he's now potentially your third choice. Rico 676 00:34:44,693 --> 00:34:49,173 Speaker 4: is potentially your third choice left wing and your third 677 00:34:49,293 --> 00:34:51,653 Speaker 4: choice center. So he's gone backwards at a great raid 678 00:34:51,653 --> 00:34:57,453 Speaker 4: of knots. He's going to Leicester Leinster next year and 679 00:34:58,413 --> 00:35:00,813 Speaker 4: I can see that bear in real challenge given the 680 00:35:00,853 --> 00:35:02,533 Speaker 4: bar that Jordi Barrett set there. 681 00:35:03,653 --> 00:35:04,733 Speaker 3: But where's Rico at? 682 00:35:05,133 --> 00:35:08,613 Speaker 2: That's an interesting question, isn't it. And we've seen Rico 683 00:35:08,333 --> 00:35:11,413 Speaker 2: you come again. I guess at test level he was 684 00:35:11,493 --> 00:35:14,413 Speaker 2: out of favorite twenty nineteen, then twenty twenty, he was 685 00:35:14,493 --> 00:35:16,413 Speaker 2: back in the starting side for the All Blacks and 686 00:35:16,413 --> 00:35:18,973 Speaker 2: that and that COVID year and had come back into 687 00:35:19,053 --> 00:35:24,053 Speaker 2: some real form that season. Maybe the season at Leinster 688 00:35:24,253 --> 00:35:26,813 Speaker 2: is probably the best thing for him. Potentially. Now it's 689 00:35:26,813 --> 00:35:28,773 Speaker 2: not going to start until after the end of view tour, 690 00:35:28,813 --> 00:35:31,373 Speaker 2: but it feels like his rugby career is at a 691 00:35:31,413 --> 00:35:34,613 Speaker 2: little bit of a crossroads. They backed him at center 692 00:35:35,413 --> 00:35:39,533 Speaker 2: last year fearly unconvincing, moved into left wing this year 693 00:35:40,213 --> 00:35:43,133 Speaker 2: fearly unconvincing once again. So where does he fit into 694 00:35:43,133 --> 00:35:44,933 Speaker 2: All Blacks back line? Well, there's not a spot in 695 00:35:44,973 --> 00:35:48,133 Speaker 2: the first choice team at the moment for him. Can 696 00:35:48,173 --> 00:35:49,733 Speaker 2: you come and plug him play a role on the 697 00:35:49,773 --> 00:35:52,453 Speaker 2: bench while potentially he can start he plays centric and 698 00:35:52,453 --> 00:35:55,893 Speaker 2: play a wing. That's versus Tom Huer. But I'm looking 699 00:35:55,933 --> 00:35:58,133 Speaker 2: at lesifying and look and going. He's probably doing that 700 00:35:58,173 --> 00:36:00,493 Speaker 2: better than what Rico Juani is at the moment. So 701 00:36:00,893 --> 00:36:03,293 Speaker 2: it feels to me like you've probably gone the interview tour, 702 00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:06,973 Speaker 2: but almost needs to get to Leinster and find himself again. 703 00:36:07,093 --> 00:36:10,133 Speaker 2: If he's to beckonntinuing his test career into twenty twenty 704 00:36:10,133 --> 00:36:10,773 Speaker 2: six and beyond. 705 00:36:11,213 --> 00:36:13,573 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he's probably ahead of Lennard Brown because 706 00:36:13,573 --> 00:36:17,533 Speaker 4: of his versatility with the wing options, but currently he 707 00:36:17,733 --> 00:36:21,533 Speaker 4: does not make the All Blacks first choice twenty three and. 708 00:36:22,933 --> 00:36:24,533 Speaker 3: That's a harsh reality. 709 00:36:24,253 --> 00:36:26,013 Speaker 4: I think for him to come to terms of at 710 00:36:26,013 --> 00:36:29,533 Speaker 4: the moment as well, So yeah, Lenza could be the 711 00:36:29,573 --> 00:36:31,093 Speaker 4: making or breaking of could be. 712 00:36:31,133 --> 00:36:33,693 Speaker 2: Indeed, before we go, tough week for the old New 713 00:36:33,733 --> 00:36:36,733 Speaker 2: Zealand secondary school side. A couple of beltings at the 714 00:36:36,773 --> 00:36:41,573 Speaker 2: hands of the Australian under eighteen's worth pointing out that 715 00:36:41,613 --> 00:36:44,013 Speaker 2: it's an under eighteen side versus a school side, but 716 00:36:44,493 --> 00:36:46,733 Speaker 2: from my understanding, most of those Australian boys are at 717 00:36:46,733 --> 00:36:51,493 Speaker 2: school or just leaving. Eighty one forty three I think 718 00:36:51,493 --> 00:36:54,293 Speaker 2: it was in the first game, and the second game 719 00:36:54,413 --> 00:36:57,613 Speaker 2: yesterday was something like fifty five thirty one or similar. 720 00:36:58,093 --> 00:37:01,173 Speaker 2: There's a lot of points to concede and some good 721 00:37:01,173 --> 00:37:03,693 Speaker 2: signs for Australia, but some worrying signs for New Zealand 722 00:37:03,933 --> 00:37:04,373 Speaker 2: big time. 723 00:37:04,413 --> 00:37:06,693 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean those are high scores, but to concede 724 00:37:06,973 --> 00:37:10,893 Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty odd points in two weeks is 725 00:37:11,093 --> 00:37:15,893 Speaker 4: not a great signal for that team and potentially the 726 00:37:16,573 --> 00:37:19,813 Speaker 4: future of New Zealand rugby. I mean, there's a bit 727 00:37:19,853 --> 00:37:23,173 Speaker 4: of context that we had about schools playing schools and 728 00:37:23,173 --> 00:37:26,293 Speaker 4: how many of those players caick on. But that is 729 00:37:26,373 --> 00:37:32,093 Speaker 4: essentially the cream of your future generation, right, and yeah, 730 00:37:32,133 --> 00:37:35,173 Speaker 4: there'll be players emerge in time and some late bloomers. 731 00:37:35,213 --> 00:37:39,333 Speaker 4: They don't all come through that talent ID system, but 732 00:37:39,933 --> 00:37:44,133 Speaker 4: it is worrying signs because if you look back, a 733 00:37:44,173 --> 00:37:47,093 Speaker 4: lot of New Zealand's best talent has come through the 734 00:37:47,173 --> 00:37:50,933 Speaker 4: under twenties when that team was successful, and we've spoken 735 00:37:50,973 --> 00:37:56,013 Speaker 4: here about I guess the lack of depth and options 736 00:37:56,053 --> 00:37:59,693 Speaker 4: in some positions and the lack of guys really bashing 737 00:37:59,733 --> 00:38:03,253 Speaker 4: down the door. So I think there should be concerns 738 00:38:03,293 --> 00:38:06,493 Speaker 4: about those results and where that team is at. 739 00:38:06,613 --> 00:38:08,693 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there needs to be concerns of New Zealand. 740 00:38:08,733 --> 00:38:12,373 Speaker 2: Rugby tried to make it into an under eighteens program. 741 00:38:12,693 --> 00:38:16,093 Speaker 2: Secondary schools Blue A Gasket weren't happy with that. I 742 00:38:16,093 --> 00:38:19,413 Speaker 2: think there is some real concerns around that pathway and 743 00:38:19,613 --> 00:38:23,853 Speaker 2: you know the way that secondary schools operate. Yes, it's 744 00:38:23,893 --> 00:38:26,493 Speaker 2: an important part of their DNA, but I think there 745 00:38:26,533 --> 00:38:30,013 Speaker 2: are some questions around, especially in the one A area, 746 00:38:30,213 --> 00:38:34,813 Speaker 2: just the way that they operate as a cabal. And 747 00:38:34,933 --> 00:38:37,373 Speaker 2: I don't like the way that some of the attitudes 748 00:38:37,413 --> 00:38:40,133 Speaker 2: taken as prioritizing Rugby sort of over schools and that 749 00:38:40,173 --> 00:38:42,613 Speaker 2: sort of thing. So there's a bit to work through 750 00:38:42,693 --> 00:38:44,973 Speaker 2: there and digest. But not good science for New Zealand 751 00:38:45,013 --> 00:38:49,253 Speaker 2: rugbies and pathways coming through talent identification potentially as well. 752 00:38:51,013 --> 00:38:53,093 Speaker 2: You know, it feels like that it's all collected alongside 753 00:38:53,333 --> 00:38:55,773 Speaker 2: a real you know, certain group of schools and you 754 00:38:55,813 --> 00:38:59,453 Speaker 2: have to go to those schools to be spotted. So yeah, 755 00:38:59,453 --> 00:39:01,653 Speaker 2: a lot to work through. I would hasten to add that, 756 00:39:01,693 --> 00:39:03,853 Speaker 2: you know, similar to the Outher twenties, there's that this 757 00:39:03,973 --> 00:39:06,373 Speaker 2: is the only time that you'll play in this age group, 758 00:39:06,533 --> 00:39:10,133 Speaker 2: and you know, from the time you leave the under 759 00:39:10,133 --> 00:39:12,773 Speaker 2: twenty New Zealand and twenties wherever it might be, you're 760 00:39:12,773 --> 00:39:15,093 Speaker 2: playing into the big boys and there's no age cap 761 00:39:15,173 --> 00:39:17,453 Speaker 2: age gap, brother or sorry age cap you know you're 762 00:39:17,453 --> 00:39:19,773 Speaker 2: playing a twenty one year old against a twenty nine 763 00:39:19,853 --> 00:39:22,653 Speaker 2: year old thirty year old, so it all intermingles in 764 00:39:22,693 --> 00:39:25,813 Speaker 2: one but the signs are not particularly good. 765 00:39:26,053 --> 00:39:28,533 Speaker 4: No, And I think when you look back to when 766 00:39:28,573 --> 00:39:31,693 Speaker 4: the All Blacks were at their peak, there's a real 767 00:39:31,933 --> 00:39:35,893 Speaker 4: correlation there about where the twenties were at as well, 768 00:39:36,173 --> 00:39:39,213 Speaker 4: and with the All Blacks stopping back with the lack 769 00:39:39,213 --> 00:39:43,333 Speaker 4: of consistency and question marks over where they are at. 770 00:39:43,493 --> 00:39:46,653 Speaker 4: And then you look at the future talent coming through, 771 00:39:48,213 --> 00:39:51,933 Speaker 4: I think there's a reason to be concerned on that night, 772 00:39:53,773 --> 00:39:54,413 Speaker 4: heavy sun there. 773 00:39:54,493 --> 00:39:59,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely we will wrap up Rugby direct there from Perth. 774 00:39:59,733 --> 00:40:02,533 Speaker 2: Thanks very much for your company. Will will be back 775 00:40:02,613 --> 00:40:04,413 Speaker 2: potentially next week. We're just waiting to hear when the 776 00:40:04,453 --> 00:40:06,733 Speaker 2: All Blacks interviewed to a squads name, but will likely 777 00:40:06,773 --> 00:40:09,293 Speaker 2: convene for that, but probably won't be in your on 778 00:40:09,333 --> 00:40:11,693 Speaker 2: the Monday of next week. We'll take a breather. Also, 779 00:40:11,973 --> 00:40:14,533 Speaker 2: we've had request Liam it throws at you right now 780 00:40:14,613 --> 00:40:16,933 Speaker 2: to do a bit of a mail bag sort of scenario, 781 00:40:17,053 --> 00:40:18,613 Speaker 2: so he might look to do that before the end 782 00:40:18,613 --> 00:40:21,133 Speaker 2: of your tour as well, answer some listener questions and 783 00:40:21,853 --> 00:40:24,053 Speaker 2: that sort of thing and see what our listeners are thinking. 784 00:40:24,093 --> 00:40:26,973 Speaker 3: So sure, come in hot and heavy and put us 785 00:40:27,053 --> 00:40:27,533 Speaker 3: under the grill. 786 00:40:27,613 --> 00:40:29,333 Speaker 2: We'll get an email or something sorted and we'll you 787 00:40:29,373 --> 00:40:31,693 Speaker 2: know next time week convene you can get your questions through, 788 00:40:31,773 --> 00:40:34,453 Speaker 2: but otherwise we'll take cake we slight breaking back with 789 00:40:34,573 --> 00:40:36,893 Speaker 2: you at some point in the niches wee while thanks 790 00:40:36,933 --> 00:40:38,613 Speaker 2: to last and Bars English as well for putting this 791 00:40:38,613 --> 00:40:41,893 Speaker 2: podcast together and of course Fooklift Solutions lifting you and 792 00:40:41,973 --> 00:40:45,133 Speaker 2: your business to a higher level. Over and out from Perth. 793 00:40:49,213 --> 00:40:51,893 Speaker 1: For more from news, talks, ed B Listen live on 794 00:40:51,933 --> 00:40:54,893 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 795 00:40:54,973 --> 00:40:57,533 Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio