1 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald Business Editor at Large, 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: and welcome to this episode of Money Talks. This is 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: a podcast about money, but we're not going to tell 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: you how to get rich, and we're not going to 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: try and pick the next interest rate move. In this series, 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders about how money 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: has shaped their lives and what they've learned over the years. 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: For today's podcast, I'm joined by Fisher Funds CEO and 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: former Cabinet minister Simon Power Curta Simon, Welcome to Money Talks. 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: Thanks very much, I'm great to be here. 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: How long is it at Fisher Funds? 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: Now about six and a half seven months so middle 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: of February I started there. 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: And how has that been? Quite a shift from TV 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: and Z chief but almost some familiarity there around sort 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: of into the finance world. 17 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. So at Westpac I looked after BT managed funds 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: for a period there, but also for a slightly longer 19 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: period looked after the advice A network and so that, 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: combined with an everlasting interest in regulation and policy settings, 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: has meant that it's been a terrific opportunity, too good 22 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: to turn down. 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'll come back to it, because obviously, as 24 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Commerce Minister, you were deeply involved in reform of the 25 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: financial market sector and that's something perhaps to have a 26 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: look back at. But I want to go right back 27 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,279 Speaker 1: here first and just ask you what your first money 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: memories are, What your first memories of having money in 29 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 1: your hand might be if you as a child. 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess a couple of things. The 31 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: first was, I do remember getting, you know, a five 32 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: or a ten dollar note in a Christmas card from 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: a grandmother back in the way. It's huge, it was 34 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: a huge deal, and so I do I do remember 35 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: the kind of you know, the having the note in 36 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: the hand as it were. And then I have, you know, 37 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: reasonably vivid memories of my last couple of years at 38 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: school of doing the night melodies New World and Parmerstona 39 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: and that might have been kind of two or three 40 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: nights a week, and so getting that thirty three or 41 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 2: thirty five dollars a neat or whatever it was a 42 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 2: week in the hand. I definitely remember those those first 43 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: associations with money and earning. 44 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: Sure, And do you remember what you might have splashed 45 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: out on in those days? 46 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I do remember a particularly vivid, short sleeved 47 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 2: pink shirt with a vertical zip on it as an 48 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: early as an early investment box though mainly which sounds 49 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: slightly geeky, but that was true, And I've always been 50 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 2: a collector of books, and so I do remember that. 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: But I and you know, the odd, the odd hot 52 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: chocolate record, things like that. But the shirt sounds like 53 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: it's very early eighties. Well that's right, I know, that's 54 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: exactly right. So that would have been working in the supermarket, 55 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: would have been yeah, eighty six, eighty seven, Miami vice 56 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 2: ra correct, right, absolutely right, very good. 57 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: I did read. I read an opinion piece you did 58 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: for The Herald a few year back. We mentioned your 59 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: father's advice on saving I just wondered, you know, if 60 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: you can tell me a little bit about what your 61 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: parents did and what they sort of instilled in you 62 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: around money. 63 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, so dad was in cars and retail, and 64 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 2: mum was in retail real estate, and then actually only 65 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: recently has stepped back from doing you know, a couple 66 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: of days a week in retail as well, now that 67 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: she's in her kind of mid seventies. So very much 68 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: people associated professions and I guess what was instilled in 69 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: me was your work hard, which won't surprise any listeners 70 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: to this podcast. I've seen that repeated and the odd 71 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: time tuning in. But I do think that as well 72 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: as that was the idea that you're never quite sure 73 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: when things are going to get hard and so hard, 74 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: and so to make sure that a portion of that 75 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: has swept into a into a savings account. And that's 76 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: something that Lisa and I have tried to instill in 77 00:03:58,120 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: our boys as well. Sure. 78 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you look back at that era, what do 79 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: you recall about money and economics through that time? You 80 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: were obviously old enough to recall the tail end of 81 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: the Muldoon era and the big government and then you know, 82 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: coming of age through all those reforms. It's obviously a 83 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: hugely influential time in New Zealand's economic history. But what 84 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: did you sort of take. 85 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: No, that's great question. So in nineteen eighty four, when 86 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: I was in fourth Form as it then was called, Yeah, 87 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: I can vividly remember a great teacher, Michael Melbourne, had 88 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 2: the pictures of the fourth Labor Government cabinet up on 89 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: our wall in our fourth form home room. I guess 90 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 2: it was called and thinking about how they had come 91 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: into office, A couple of things resonated. The first was 92 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: just the breaking down of the construct of a different 93 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: way of managing the economy, if I can put it 94 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 2: that way. And then secondly, and this stayed with me, 95 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: the power of the first term of a government. Right. So, 96 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: watching watching Roger Douglas, Richard Prebole, you know that that 97 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: band of Mike Moore, I mean, Jeffrey Palmer was an 98 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: extraordinary legislator. And so when you know, when I thought 99 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: back about the opportunities that first term presented them, that 100 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: stuck with me for the next twenty five years. Really wow. 101 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. And at school, I mean, how early did you 102 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: get in you know, did you have an interest in politics? 103 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: Well, it sort of started. I had a most wonderful 104 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: fifth form history teacher, Missus Robertson, who had us do 105 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 2: a unit on US politics and the sixties, so Kennedy, 106 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: Johnny Lively, Nixon, And that has literally stuck with me. 107 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm still a student. I'm still enrolled at 108 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: Victoria University, and I'm still a student of US US politics. 109 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: I mean, what are you studying. I'm under the very 110 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: patient tutelage of two supervisors who are letting me do 111 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: a part time PhD in US political leadership, and so 112 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: very to be doing that. 113 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: You know, weren't kidding that you will be watching the debate, 114 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: which we've dragged you away from the Harris Trump debate. 115 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: On watching it, No question about that. No, And so 116 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: that's remained with me actually all the way through since school. 117 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, we're there are other favorite subjects. I mean, 118 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: and and sports. I guess I saw on Wikipedia that 119 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: you were a senior rep in two sports, but I 120 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: didn't really say what sports. 121 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: I don't think that's right. I struggled along in the 122 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: second fifteen rugby team and struggled along the cricket team. 123 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 2: So senior might have been. I was old, but I 124 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: wasn't a performer at all. In fact, quite the opposite. 125 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 2: I was probleusiastic team members. Well, that's right, and I 126 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: was probably more in the you know, when I look 127 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 2: back on it, really I was enjoyed, you know, debate, drama, 128 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: school musicals in fact, yeah, and all that on the stage. Yeah, 129 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: a little bit, yeah, little bit of So. 130 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: Going to university, you you you did law and political science, 131 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: I mean in court, you know, there's a sort of 132 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: a theatrical element to both aspects of politics. But you know, 133 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: did you end up wrestling between the political science side 134 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: and the law side? I mean, was there a choice 135 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: to be made? 136 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: It's a great question. So I went to practice law 137 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: off the back of watching several episodes of LA Law 138 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: in the late eighties, and back in those days, I'm 139 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: not sure if it's the same now. You had to 140 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: do some electives, you know, for first year law, and 141 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: I elected to do political science. And I remember sitting 142 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: in the back row listening to Professor Margaret Clark, who 143 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: talking to us about participating in politics, participating in public policy. 144 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: And I can remember sitting in the back of that 145 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: classroom and it emptied out and a stats class or 146 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: something came in after us, and I was still sitting there, thinking, actually, 147 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: that's what I want to do, right, Yeah, And so 148 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: law in many respects became the byproduct of wanting to 149 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: study political science. And as it turns out, my memory 150 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: is my grades were a lot better in political science 151 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: than they were in law. Some subjects in law I 152 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: enjoyed so much under them twice, so you know. 153 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: I guess it's not quite LA Law though when you 154 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: get out to your first firm and Palmers to North 155 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: and No. 156 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: But I tell you that that, you know, I went 157 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: to work for fitz Herbert Rowe, who to this day 158 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: I regard as the most generous employer. They allowed a 159 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: you know, twenty eight twenty nine year old to put 160 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: their hand up to go into national politics. We're I'd 161 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: only been practicing law for four or five years really, 162 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: and they were extraordinarily generous and I've never never forgotten that. Sure, 163 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: and I did some time as a judy solicitor as 164 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 2: well as doing you know, corporate and commercial or did 165 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: some time at Kensington's Swan up here just a short 166 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 2: burst doing property property work. They again were very generous 167 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: in taking me on. But look, to be honest, it 168 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: wasn't really you know, the way that you were controlling 169 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: time wasn't a strength of mine. Yeah, and so probably 170 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: probably never destined to be a great, great lawyer, right, Yeah? 171 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: What was money ever a big factor in career choice 172 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: at that point? You know, I guess if you're headed 173 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: to politics. 174 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: Not really, not really, Liam, And I mean when you know, 175 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: I was watching friends of mine go on to become 176 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: partners and law firms and accounting firms and so on, 177 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: And in my early thirties, you know, I was sitting 178 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 2: in opposition, watching you know, Helen Clark and Michael Cullen 179 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 2: and Annick King at the at the height of their powers. 180 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: And I wouldn't change that. I wouldn't change that. I 181 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: think it was the most incredibly rewarding time. And I 182 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: know this is but hackneyed to say, but it was 183 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: just such a privilege to sit in one of those 184 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: green chairs for a period of time. And no, I 185 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: didn't do it for the money. 186 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about the process 187 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: of how you got involved in you know, you know, 188 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: in politics, in politics. 189 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'd always had an interest. But then when 190 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: Dennis Marshall stood down and rang a tiquet, you know, 191 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 2: it must have been nineteen ninety eight, I guess, I'm 192 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: guessing now. And in nineteen ninety nine I ran to 193 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: be the candidate and I achieved that and then I 194 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: won the seat at I guess it must have been 195 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: twenty nine or thirty something like that, and we won 196 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: it by two hundred and eighty nine votes. And actually, 197 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: the readly slightly more interesting thing about that was that 198 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: one of the ballot boxes went missing, and so my 199 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: recollection is that the act Party saw a judicial review 200 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: in Rangaticki, which was had the potential to hold up 201 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: how In Clark's government coming into power in nineteen ninety nine. 202 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: And actually I'd forgotten largely about it until my valedictory 203 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: speech when my old friend from the other side, Trevor Mallard, 204 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 2: yelled out across the house you can give the box now, 205 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 2: so that it wasn't enough votes in the box to 206 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: offset the two hundred and eighty nine, and so the 207 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: court sat and you go. And that was interesting because 208 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: I arrived as a politician with a student loan, and 209 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: I must have been one of the first from that 210 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: generation to turn up as a member of Parliament with 211 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: a student loan. That was different, you know, listening to 212 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 2: Steve Mahari and other education tertiary education ministers talk about 213 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 2: how student loans worked while you're kind of sitting here, 214 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: and it was quite a quite interesting Dyna. Was it? 215 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: Was it always national for you? I mean, I guess 216 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: you've talked a little bit about some of the you know, 217 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: the change that happened in the eighties and things, and 218 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: and I guess I'm maybe generalizing, but I think you're 219 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: seen as someone who who straddles is a fairly sort 220 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: of centrist, kind of able to straddle the party to divide 221 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: a bit. 222 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: Yes, it was always National and you know, I have 223 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: this view on you know, on small on small government. 224 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: I believe in the powers of the fundamental market economies. 225 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: I believe in I believe in those things very very strongly. Look, 226 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: I was I was what the National Party, I guess 227 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: would now term as one of their more liberal liberal members. 228 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: You know, good good friend Catherine Rich and others of 229 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: that time, you know, claim so much, probably Marris Williamson, 230 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: others would consider themselves similarly socially liberal. And actually that 231 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 2: the extraordinary thing was, you know, rang Atik potentially quite 232 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 2: a conservative electorate, although I remember, very very independent thinker 233 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: is very smart people. It's the home of m MP 234 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:19,239 Speaker 2: Bruce Beatham was from Rangak, so very thoughtful, understand electoral systems, 235 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: really clever, clever constituents, and they sort of adopted me 236 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: as a sort of liberal lawyer representing you know that 237 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: that terrific part of the country. 238 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess you haven't trained in economics, but 239 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: that sort of those economic values have been instilled in 240 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 1: you or you've seen them through just being out in 241 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: the world. 242 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think it's a great question. 243 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 2: I think that you know intuitively. Another way of thinking 244 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: about it is to say that New Zealanders are far 245 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: smarter than they are generally given credit for by policymakers, 246 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: by those and decision making roles. This idea that you 247 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 2: can only get an idea across through a south and 248 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: by it or through a simple message, this is just 249 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 2: not correct, right. New Zealanders are really smart. They understand 250 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: the debate, they understand the nuance of debate, they understand 251 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 2: complex reporting. If they're interested in the subject matter, I mean, 252 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: step back from it and ask yourself, when was the 253 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 2: last time you could say the New Zealand public got 254 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: an election wrong? Right? And actually they don't. They work 255 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: out the system that they're operating under. They work out 256 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: how to constrain and empower different parties, and they work 257 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: out the shape of the government they'd like at any 258 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 2: one time. They work out when they're tired of them, 259 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 2: they work out when they're ready. They're actually really clever. 260 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 2: And I think the more that we can upweight that 261 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: conversation to reflect back that level of sophisticated thinking the better. 262 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I mean, I guess, you know, talking about 263 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: markets and capitalism working, it's obviously the argument works best 264 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: when it's working well and you inherited it. The system 265 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: is coming in as a cabinet minister two thousand and eight, 266 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: you're inherited the GFC, and then subsequently that the finance 267 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: company collapses. I am curious to get your sort of 268 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: views with a good bit of hindsight now on what 269 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: sort of learned I mean, certainly, I would say the 270 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: regulatory reform that you oversaw, the introduction of the FMA 271 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: and the Financial Markets Conduct Actors as seen something of 272 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: a great success. It certainly was very much welcomed by 273 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: the industry and seemed to deal with some of the 274 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: issues that were there at the time. I mean, do 275 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: you sort of look back with pride on that? And also, 276 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, are we still fit for purpose now that 277 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: you're sitting on the other side. 278 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 2: I guess yeah, we're very much fit for purpose. Just 279 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: answering the second question first, I think that you know, 280 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: the thing about regulation of markets is that it should 281 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: be done generationally so that there is a surety and 282 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: a consistency in the application of regulation, in the way 283 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: a regulator interacts with market participants, including of course Mum 284 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: and Dad investors. And when I think back on it, 285 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: the kind of last time that it had been overhauled 286 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: was actually jeff Sir Jeffrey Palmer when he did the 287 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 2: Securities Act legislation. And I spent time with Sir Jeffrey, 288 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: you know, understanding the leavers and the depth of knowledge 289 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 2: you had to have to make some of these changes. 290 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: Spent a lot of time with industry participants beforehand, testing 291 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: you know, ideas, sharing information, and the participants in markets 292 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: were really open with me. It was a high trust model. 293 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: Nothing everlaked during those discussions that I'm aware of or 294 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: that I can recall. And so to that end, working 295 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: alongside not only cabinet colleagues like Sir bil English and 296 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: others who were very determined to progress with work, you know, 297 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: credit has to go to Lean Delzel, who was sitting 298 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: on the other side of the house and had started 299 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: the Capital Markets Development Task Force when she was minister, 300 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: ordered that work from opposition, and then when we moved 301 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: to make some changes in government, she was very supportive 302 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: of those moves, so a lot of them ended up 303 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: being and this is going very much from memory. It's 304 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: a long time ago now, but they ended up being 305 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: quite bipartisan in nature, which gave markets, I think, reassurance 306 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: that it wasn't going to flip on its lid if 307 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 2: there was a change of a change of government. And 308 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: I look, it's for others to judge whether it's been 309 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: successful or not. I just hope it's brought some stability. Yeah. 310 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: Well, I mean we're going through a fairly sort of 311 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: solid downturn right now. There's been the odd construction company gover, 312 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: but we haven't seen there is just isn't that tear 313 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: of you know, public touch wood at the stage. But 314 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess, you know, it does feel like 315 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: the financial sector has been more robust going through through 316 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: this this current sort of downturn in Middley. It's a 317 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: more heavily signaled downturn than than what we got with 318 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: the GFC. 319 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, look, I think that's fair. I recall one 320 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: of the big debates being whether participants or those worth 321 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: market expertise should be on the governance side of the FMA, 322 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 2: And I think in the end that's the right decision 323 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: to have people with knowledge, to have people where if 324 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: there are conflicts they can be managed, but people who 325 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: have a deeper understanding of you know, as you say, 326 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 2: the toing and frying of market dynamics. And I think 327 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 2: that's proven to be helpful. 328 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I mean with the fund manager hat on. Now, 329 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean, are there any things you'd like to see 330 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: tweak or change to try and sort of supercharge markets 331 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: a bit. 332 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think where we're sitting at the moment, 333 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: we do need to have a a nationwide discussion about 334 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 2: whether the settings are right on key we Saver. So 335 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: you know, we're having broad discussions about whether three or 336 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 2: four percent seems to be the right contribution rate in Australia, 337 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 2: there debating. I think it's between eleven and a half 338 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,959 Speaker 2: and twelve. Now listen, where we're very early in the 339 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: life cycle of kiwisaver in the sense that you know, 340 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 2: we haven't had anybody go from eighteen to sixty sixty 341 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 2: five yet. I do think though that when it was 342 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 2: first introduced, you know, now we've got maybe one hundred 343 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: and ten hundred and eleven billion dollars worth sitting in 344 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: sitting in Kiwi savor and the idea of that in 345 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: the super fun which I think is at about seventy seven, 346 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 2: is that they would help smooth the cost of universal superannuation. 347 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: Now those numbers would indicate to me more of a 348 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 2: tripartid discussion between those three components. Is a better way 349 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: to think about it, rather than just having this notion 350 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: of two entities or two schemes smoothing the cost there 351 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: is there becomes i think an opportunity to have a 352 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: conversation about how much is enough? How much is the 353 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 2: right amount. There's always a risk that when you say 354 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 2: three plus three or three plus four are the right 355 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 2: signals that that you know, the New Zealand, the New 356 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: Zealand taxpayer or worker or contributor or client is sitting 357 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: there saying, all, if the government says those settings are enough, 358 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 2: they must be enough. Yeah, and actually people don't go further, 359 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: that's right. So having a bit more of a well, 360 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 2: they don't go further until they're sort of fifty eight 361 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: sixty or something like that, and they suddenly see, we 362 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 2: shouldn't time and we should either nervous about having a 363 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: conversation about whether the settings are up for you know, 364 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: up for debate or not. And I know that policymakers 365 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: will be sitting there saying this isn't the right time 366 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: to be having that discussion, you know, cost of living 367 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: crisis and letter. But actually, you know what, it's exactly 368 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,959 Speaker 2: the right time because if you signal these things ahead 369 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: of time, you know OCRs down there's some opportunity potentially 370 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: with some disposable income people we starting to think about 371 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 2: how they use that disposable income. 372 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: Now we may actually have a few few months or 373 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: a year of something normal. 374 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 2: That's right. So that's actually the ideal of set out 375 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: a bit of a pathway, have an intelligent conversation and 376 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: see where it ends up. 377 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, would you go as far as like advocating compulsory 378 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: super like Australia. 379 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 2: Look, I think the way i'd answer that, and I'm 380 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: not trying to be a basive, but the way I 381 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 2: answer that is to say, always interested in a conversation. 382 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 2: I think contribution rates are probably just as important a 383 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: conversation as compulsion. 384 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: Now the other tricky one because TAM's and my boss 385 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: asked me to She said you should ask him should 386 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: the super age be raised at some point? 387 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: I think, you know, I think that MMP creates an 388 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: environment where there's going to be ongoing discussions about the 389 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: right age here, these things will settle for the moment. 390 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 2: You're better off talking about what a pathway might look like, 391 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: both on contribution age and other things. If that's the 392 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 2: sensible conversation to have for a government of the day. 393 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 2: Having said that, I'm not going to stick my beaconto 394 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: you know what may or may not have come out 395 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: of negotiating. 396 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, fair enough. You don't have to give 397 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: us a headliner. So when we look at your career path, 398 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: I mean obviously, you know, into some very senior roles 399 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: at west Pac and then now the fund manager. It's 400 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: been very much a Minister of Commerce, but it was 401 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: was it a sort of a detour to be CEO 402 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: of TVNZ, Well. 403 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: I guess if you put it like that. But the 404 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: way I would think about it is, you know, I 405 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 2: was at west Pac, had a wonderful set of opportunities, 406 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 2: terrifically enjoyed my time there. You know, I applied to 407 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: be the be the CEO. I didn't get the job. 408 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: Catherine's doing a great job in that role, and so 409 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 2: I was sort of thinking about, you know, what might 410 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 2: be what might I mean. 411 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: Would you have had to maybe go to Australia and 412 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: do time in Australia to I don't know. I don't know, 413 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,479 Speaker 1: but I mean you're obviously quite committed to New Zealand, 414 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: very very and I think that, you know, hopefully that's clear. 415 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: And that's one of the great things about Fisher Funds 416 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: is you know, you got this two third ownership from 417 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: the Toy Founderation based out of the Taranaki Community Trust, 418 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: the old Taranaki Community Trust. The chunk of what we 419 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: do goes into that community every year. I really, I'm 420 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: from the provinces, you know, I don't identify myself as 421 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: an Aucklander as such, even though Auckland has been very 422 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: good to me. But I'm from the you know, I'm 423 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: from the man Or two and I'm delighted to see 424 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: those communities do well out of an organization like ours. 425 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: But TV and ZED the opportunity came up and I 426 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: thought that could be a really interesting thing to do, 427 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: given the potential merger with Radio New Zealand. You know, 428 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: finding I had a set of skills, I think that 429 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: was helpful, some commercial background, but also understand how public 430 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: policies built. 431 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: I loved it. I absolutely loved it. 432 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a tough time. It was always a 433 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: tough time, you know. 434 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 2: Tell me at the start of any government or at 435 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 2: the start of any role where where you don't have 436 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 2: challenges and that I just think that's the nature of 437 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: going into these roles. But I mean, look, I don't 438 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 2: think it's any great, great secret in the industry. I 439 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 2: had a bit of a soft spot for the news room. 440 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 2: I love the work they did. I spent time down 441 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: there when I could, keeping my hands off editorial decisions, 442 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: of course, and really enjoyed understanding it. You know, I've 443 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: been in front of any of those journalists during my career, 444 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: and watching them prepare was very different from being on 445 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: the you know, on the receiving end. The merger didn't 446 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 2: go ahead, and that was really what I was there for. Yeah, 447 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: so we put in place the strategy to upweight the 448 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 2: digitization and so on, and then it just seemed, as 449 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: I think I described to one of your colleagues, the 450 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: natural infliction point to say, well, yeah, let's see what 451 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: else is different. 452 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: Different pathway there, but interesting, I see Aarons is looking 453 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: at moving into the building now. 454 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 2: I've read that somewhere. 455 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it seems like, whether it's a formal or not, 456 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: they may end up, you know the nature of media, 457 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: end up working closely together. 458 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: Well, I think you know, you know, you know this 459 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: better than anyone. But the industry has an enormous capacity 460 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: to adapt. 461 00:23:50,560 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always adapting. Yeah, absolutely. I want to get 462 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: into some of our quick fire questions now if I can. 463 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: Just going back a bit, I assume what's the poorest 464 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: you'd say you've ever been. 465 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 2: Well, I I was an undergraduate student for six years 466 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: at Victoria and Wellington. That was of my own doing. 467 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 2: It should have been five, but it was six. And 468 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: you know, by the time you hit your sixth year 469 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: with a student loan, you partying. Well. I mean, it's 470 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: fair to say that I enjoyed a couple of law 471 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 2: papers so much. I did them twice and I genuinely 472 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 2: enjoyed them. 473 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: But att Robertson still beat you for the length of 474 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: time that any probably may well have. 475 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm not big on cans spaghetti now, 476 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: put it right here. It's not something I would choose 477 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: to choose to eat if I had a choice. 478 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, how about sort of the other side. I guess 479 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: maybe when you've got your first paycheck as a lawyer 480 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: or something. But do you remember splashing out and thinking, gosh, 481 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: I've got a little bit of money, and if so, 482 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: what's the sort of most indulgent purchase you can remember making. 483 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: I don't remember splashing out, but I certainly the most indulgent. 484 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: It just actually was after I left TV and zed 485 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 2: at LISTA, and I took the kids to Washington and 486 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 2: to New York, and then I stayed and spent some 487 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: time researching and presidential libraries and Jimmy Carter and Atlanta, 488 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 2: Georgia lb J and Austin, Texas, and then Reagan was 489 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 2: part of his study ondoing. And there was a point 490 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: where I was sitting in one of those archive rooms 491 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: going through materials, thinking, actually, this is very self indulgent, 492 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 2: very self indulgent. But I loved it. So that was 493 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 2: probably the most intill I've done. Yeah. Absolutely, Well. I 494 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 2: don't play, you know, I don't. I'm not very good 495 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: at golf. I don't own a boat, so kind of 496 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: us politics is my thing. 497 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: You've got a big, big month and a half coming. 498 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: One we've been asking is Christopher luxon on the Camp 499 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: Payne Trail sort of got caught out, he asked. He 500 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: was asked about how much he spent on groceries and 501 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: he said sixty dollars because I think he was talking 502 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: about stocking up the apartment in Wellington. But how much 503 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: do you spend on groce? Is it a big shot 504 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: for you? 505 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got two or we've got one boy down 506 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: at Canterbury University now he is a pretty pretty intense 507 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: rugby plant and another one who's six foot four and 508 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: a pretty intense basketball player and bass player. So no, 509 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: I would say it'll be in the hundreds. So it'd 510 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: be you know, probably I'd be guessing, but I would say, 511 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 2: you know, four or five hundred bucks a week at. 512 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: Least with teenage boys. It's sometimes hard to get through one. 513 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: You have to go back again. Well it's osmosis, isn't it. 514 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: They just stand in front of the fridge and when 515 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: the mates come over. Yeah, well there's that as well. 516 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. 517 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: Do you buy lotto tickets? And if so, what sort 518 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: of amount do you imagine winning? 519 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: Do buy the odd? One? Don't really imagine winning at 520 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 2: any time. And I think I'm always struck by when 521 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: the media interview winners how much they want to give away. Yeah, 522 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 2: and I think that's a really interesting phenomena in New Zealand. 523 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 2: But so no, I don't. I don't think a whole 524 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: thing to it. 525 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just asked because some people, myself, I wouldn't 526 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: like the idea of winning forty million or something because 527 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: it's going to turn my life upside down. 528 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: So I just imagine winning one point to which I don't. 529 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: I don't buy the tickets, So that's very little chance. 530 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: On a sort of slightly wider scale, And we've touched 531 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: on a little bit, but how much is making money 532 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: important to you? And how much is that sort of 533 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: a byproduct of success for you. 534 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 2: I don't kind of run out a role because of 535 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: what it pays. I run at it because it's going 536 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 2: to be interesting, it's going to be challenging. I know 537 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 2: it sounds trite that the end z component's a big 538 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 2: deal for me, and so that that weighs on a 539 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 2: decision that I might make about a role. I would 540 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: say that, you know, anybody that's ever asked me what 541 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 2: they should study at university, I've always just said, do 542 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 2: what you enjoy and it will lead to where it 543 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 2: leads to. You know, some people think of university as 544 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: as a ticket to a profession. My view has always been, 545 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 2: and I'm a perpetual student, so my view has always been, actually, 546 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: just do what you love and it'll work at a 547 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: tough out and that's really important. I mean I can 548 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 2: recall at Westpac, you know, doing one year doing the 549 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: final interviews for the graduate program and two of the 550 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: most stunning graduates we had. One was a musician and 551 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 2: one was had a master's in psychology. Plenty of great 552 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 2: commerce graduates, but it was just fascinating having people with 553 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 2: a different perspective. So I would say, if you love it, 554 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: study it, and what's more, keep studying it. Yeah. 555 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: One last question. We always ask if you were a 556 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: prime minister for a day, if we could magically make 557 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: you Prome Minister for a day, And I always ask us, well, 558 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, just thinking about back in the days of 559 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: being a cabinet minister, did you ever have to fill in? 560 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 2: No, I don't recall ever being there, but you must have. 561 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: It must have been closed. Depends how many people are out. 562 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: Of the country. I think Jerry did a few times. 563 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess there is what you might have 564 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: thought then and what you might think now. But what 565 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: if we could magic that power and actually also give 566 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: the Prime minister power to do some of the stuff. 567 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: What would be the policy that you would most like 568 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: to sort of implement if you had you know that 569 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: that kind of power that you think could address some 570 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: of the big challenges for New Zealand, the social inequality 571 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: and generally you know, create a bit more wealth in 572 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: the country. 573 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: Education every day of the week when I look at 574 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: the statistics and health, justice, welfare, education is the key 575 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: to opportunity and giving you know, those that you were 576 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: describing earlier who might not have had careers where money 577 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 2: was as much of an opportunity. Education will break that 578 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 2: cycle every time. And so yeah, if I had the 579 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: wand I would be going hard on the quality and 580 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: on the opportunity both at a compartment compulsory sector and 581 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: in the in the tertiary sector as well. I think 582 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 2: that for an economy of our size, that is, you know, 583 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,239 Speaker 2: ushly dependent on the rest of the world to a 584 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: very very large extent, just having the smartest, most well educated, 585 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 2: most focused workforce and just adding to that global horsepower 586 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: that a country of the size has got the potential 587 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 2: to do. I wouldn't do anything above that on a list. 588 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: I just think it's the number one thing. 589 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: Sure, Look that's great. Soon I'm going to leave it 590 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: there so in power. Thanks for being on Money Talks. 591 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: Thanks Slam, Thanks for listening to this episode of Money Talks. 592 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch, drop me a 593 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: line Liam dot Dan at nzme dot co dot nz 594 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: and you can read more from me at enzidherld dot 595 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: co dot nz. Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills and 596 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: sound engineer Liam McDonald. Follow Money Talks on iHeartRadio or 597 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, with new episodes available every Thursday.