1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:13,867 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB popped up again. 3 00:00:13,827 --> 00:00:18,347 Speaker 2: Picking go to spring Doot driving South Africa. 4 00:00:18,347 --> 00:00:21,747 Speaker 1: Close the game, Henday Poga sweat. 5 00:00:22,107 --> 00:00:23,707 Speaker 2: That was the try that brought it back to what 6 00:00:23,787 --> 00:00:26,947 Speaker 2: twenty seven twenty four was it? Then the spring Box 7 00:00:26,987 --> 00:00:30,347 Speaker 2: went on to win thirty one twenty seven, a third 8 00:00:30,427 --> 00:00:32,987 Speaker 2: straight win for South Africa over the All Blacks. That's 9 00:00:32,987 --> 00:00:36,347 Speaker 2: the first time that's happened since two thousand and nine. 10 00:00:36,547 --> 00:00:41,147 Speaker 2: Let's bring in hugely experienced South African rugby journalist, columnist, 11 00:00:41,467 --> 00:00:44,907 Speaker 2: analyst and broadcaster Mark Keohane. Mark, thanks for joining us 12 00:00:44,907 --> 00:00:46,867 Speaker 2: across New Zealand with a few hours to reflect on 13 00:00:46,907 --> 00:00:47,787 Speaker 2: the game at Alice Park. 14 00:00:47,827 --> 00:00:49,187 Speaker 3: What stands out the most for you? 15 00:00:50,227 --> 00:00:52,427 Speaker 4: Just there was just such a tribute to the rivalry 16 00:00:52,467 --> 00:00:54,827 Speaker 4: between the two teams. It was an incredible test match 17 00:00:56,507 --> 00:01:00,667 Speaker 4: and poignantly at Ellis Park, where the two teams have 18 00:01:00,787 --> 00:01:03,907 Speaker 4: played eight times since ninety ninety six. The every score 19 00:01:03,947 --> 00:01:07,627 Speaker 4: is thirty one to thirty point eight for the All Blacks. 20 00:01:07,667 --> 00:01:09,747 Speaker 4: I thought at one stage at thirty one twenty seven, 21 00:01:10,107 --> 00:01:12,147 Speaker 4: oh my god, it's going to end thirty two twenty 22 00:01:12,187 --> 00:01:14,627 Speaker 4: one we're going to get that one point again. And 23 00:01:15,107 --> 00:01:17,307 Speaker 4: it was just it was twelve eleven at halftime to 24 00:01:17,347 --> 00:01:19,267 Speaker 4: the All Blacks. It was It's the kind of World 25 00:01:19,307 --> 00:01:22,867 Speaker 4: Cup Final of last year reversed. There's just such incredible 26 00:01:22,907 --> 00:01:24,947 Speaker 4: reverence and respect for the All Blacks in this country 27 00:01:24,947 --> 00:01:26,147 Speaker 4: and in the rivalry. 28 00:01:25,787 --> 00:01:28,667 Speaker 5: And this is an all Black team. That's that's maturing. 29 00:01:28,747 --> 00:01:31,027 Speaker 4: It's in its first year with Scott Robertson. It's a 30 00:01:31,107 --> 00:01:34,387 Speaker 4: very settled Springbok team. But my goodness, one occasion, I'm 31 00:01:34,387 --> 00:01:36,507 Speaker 4: going to have to watch the Test match several times 32 00:01:36,507 --> 00:01:38,747 Speaker 4: a week. I could probably give you an informed opinion 33 00:01:39,107 --> 00:01:42,347 Speaker 4: of the Test match from a South Afrikan perspective. We 34 00:01:42,467 --> 00:01:44,387 Speaker 4: got the result is it's great that we get to 35 00:01:44,387 --> 00:01:46,187 Speaker 4: go again in Cape Town in a week's time. 36 00:01:46,227 --> 00:01:49,627 Speaker 5: But everyone spoke about this is the World Cup. 37 00:01:49,467 --> 00:01:52,387 Speaker 4: Final revisitor and my goodness, did they not produce something 38 00:01:52,427 --> 00:01:53,467 Speaker 4: quite spectacular again? 39 00:01:53,627 --> 00:01:56,267 Speaker 2: Yeah, what a titanic Test match for sure. How much 40 00:01:56,307 --> 00:01:59,347 Speaker 2: did the yellow card for New Zealand later on open 41 00:01:59,427 --> 00:02:01,627 Speaker 2: the door mark do you reckon for the spring Box 42 00:02:01,667 --> 00:02:03,947 Speaker 2: to come back? They were teen points down with twelve 43 00:02:03,987 --> 00:02:05,907 Speaker 2: minutes to play at that point and then just rolled 44 00:02:05,907 --> 00:02:09,427 Speaker 2: over the top. How important was the new miracle advantage. 45 00:02:10,467 --> 00:02:11,867 Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think that there's two. 46 00:02:11,947 --> 00:02:14,667 Speaker 4: I've been looking on social media obviously after reports, and 47 00:02:14,667 --> 00:02:15,507 Speaker 4: there's been a few things. 48 00:02:15,547 --> 00:02:17,427 Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think Bonkis try was a try, 49 00:02:17,427 --> 00:02:18,107 Speaker 5: but I also. 50 00:02:17,787 --> 00:02:20,027 Speaker 4: Don't think New Zealand's first trade was a try technically, 51 00:02:20,427 --> 00:02:21,667 Speaker 4: but nothing was revisited. 52 00:02:21,707 --> 00:02:23,387 Speaker 5: But that was in the first ten minutes of the Test. 53 00:02:23,427 --> 00:02:26,227 Speaker 4: So you don't lose a Test match in the first 54 00:02:26,227 --> 00:02:28,387 Speaker 4: ten minutes, you lose it in the last ten minutes. 55 00:02:28,827 --> 00:02:31,267 Speaker 4: The big thing for me was that twenty seven to seventeen, 56 00:02:31,467 --> 00:02:33,027 Speaker 4: the momentum was with New Zealand. 57 00:02:33,267 --> 00:02:35,147 Speaker 5: This is altitude, this is Test rugby. 58 00:02:35,427 --> 00:02:38,067 Speaker 4: You scored your four tries, they get a penalty to 59 00:02:38,107 --> 00:02:40,627 Speaker 4: go thirty seventeen up and they don't take it, and. 60 00:02:40,587 --> 00:02:42,947 Speaker 5: It was pretty much a gimmy and they kept. 61 00:02:42,747 --> 00:02:45,147 Speaker 4: For the corner and they got turned over so that 62 00:02:45,227 --> 00:02:48,067 Speaker 4: feet clear by thirty thirty meters within a minute they 63 00:02:48,107 --> 00:02:50,467 Speaker 4: got yellow carded, so that gets back into the game 64 00:02:50,507 --> 00:02:52,667 Speaker 4: of scores twenty seven to twenty four and we've got 65 00:02:52,787 --> 00:02:54,787 Speaker 4: a hum dinner for the last ten minutes, and that 66 00:02:54,907 --> 00:02:56,947 Speaker 4: to me was the pivotal moment at like I think 67 00:02:56,987 --> 00:03:00,507 Speaker 4: sixty three sixty four minutes thirty seventeen. I don't know 68 00:03:00,507 --> 00:03:02,227 Speaker 4: if so that we would have come back. It's that 69 00:03:02,307 --> 00:03:05,947 Speaker 4: psychological too converted tries. But for New Zealand to kick 70 00:03:05,987 --> 00:03:08,707 Speaker 4: to the on it for what you know, they may 71 00:03:08,707 --> 00:03:11,227 Speaker 4: have felt they had momentum or whatever. But Test match 72 00:03:11,307 --> 00:03:13,027 Speaker 4: rugby in sol Africa, when you've got the box twenty 73 00:03:13,027 --> 00:03:15,107 Speaker 4: seven to seven and you can go thirty seventeen, you 74 00:03:15,227 --> 00:03:16,067 Speaker 4: take three points. 75 00:03:16,067 --> 00:03:18,307 Speaker 5: And I was perplexed by that decision. 76 00:03:18,347 --> 00:03:20,387 Speaker 4: I think maybe that's going to be one of Scott 77 00:03:20,467 --> 00:03:22,907 Speaker 4: Robinson's big learnings in terms of Test match rugby as 78 00:03:22,907 --> 00:03:24,107 Speaker 4: a person of supermatch rugby. 79 00:03:24,547 --> 00:03:26,467 Speaker 2: Indeed, No, it's a great point you make, and I 80 00:03:26,467 --> 00:03:28,947 Speaker 2: think there's a few heads being scratched over the side 81 00:03:28,947 --> 00:03:32,507 Speaker 2: of the world as well about that very decision. How important, Marke, 82 00:03:32,587 --> 00:03:35,267 Speaker 2: do you think the impact of South Africa's bench was? 83 00:03:36,987 --> 00:03:38,267 Speaker 5: Look, No, it was always going to be. 84 00:03:38,307 --> 00:03:39,827 Speaker 4: I mean all the previous we did this week, we 85 00:03:39,827 --> 00:03:41,707 Speaker 4: looked at the two starting fifteens and you said, there's 86 00:03:41,787 --> 00:03:42,987 Speaker 4: very little choose between them. 87 00:03:43,387 --> 00:03:44,947 Speaker 5: You looked at it at the wall cup, very little 88 00:03:44,987 --> 00:03:45,587 Speaker 5: chooth behind them. 89 00:03:45,587 --> 00:03:47,147 Speaker 4: But then you looked at the bench and you just thought, 90 00:03:47,907 --> 00:03:50,427 Speaker 4: come the last twenty minutes, they effectively put on a 91 00:03:50,467 --> 00:03:53,267 Speaker 4: starting They've put on a starting pack and New Zealand 92 00:03:53,587 --> 00:03:57,507 Speaker 4: currently just doesn't have that depth and that was fundamental 93 00:03:57,547 --> 00:03:58,747 Speaker 4: to the outcome of this Test match. 94 00:03:58,827 --> 00:04:00,987 Speaker 5: I just think the quality of the New Zealand performance was. 95 00:04:00,987 --> 00:04:04,227 Speaker 4: That up until that seventieth minute, they were they were 96 00:04:04,227 --> 00:04:07,027 Speaker 4: in the contest, they were effectively leading the content and 97 00:04:07,067 --> 00:04:08,587 Speaker 4: they had played that well. I haven't seen the New 98 00:04:08,667 --> 00:04:11,787 Speaker 4: Zealand team come to Ellis Park and play with such 99 00:04:12,187 --> 00:04:16,627 Speaker 4: presence and such composure and such energy and intelligence as 100 00:04:16,667 --> 00:04:18,347 Speaker 4: this one did in the first forty minutes. But I 101 00:04:18,387 --> 00:04:21,387 Speaker 4: always doubted when it got to seventy minutes whether they 102 00:04:21,387 --> 00:04:23,387 Speaker 4: would have the cattle to come off the bench. And 103 00:04:23,467 --> 00:04:25,347 Speaker 4: I think that's going to be his biggest test is 104 00:04:25,347 --> 00:04:29,987 Speaker 4: building that squad depth. But I thought their performance was 105 00:04:29,987 --> 00:04:32,107 Speaker 4: I think it's the best performance I've seen under Scott 106 00:04:32,187 --> 00:04:37,227 Speaker 4: Robinson this season. They look clear, they look functional, there 107 00:04:37,267 --> 00:04:40,267 Speaker 4: was clarity. I thought the pack was outstanding. I'm not 108 00:04:40,307 --> 00:04:42,387 Speaker 4: convinced it's the best back line he's got going there. 109 00:04:42,427 --> 00:04:44,987 Speaker 4: You know, there's you know, whether it's body should start 110 00:04:44,987 --> 00:04:48,027 Speaker 4: at ten and there should be a different midfield and. 111 00:04:47,987 --> 00:04:50,267 Speaker 5: They should different be be a different back three. 112 00:04:50,307 --> 00:04:53,267 Speaker 4: But I just thought the pack front had superbly in 113 00:04:53,307 --> 00:04:54,627 Speaker 4: the most incredible conditions. 114 00:04:54,667 --> 00:04:56,547 Speaker 5: I mean, sixty two thousand people. 115 00:04:56,667 --> 00:05:01,147 Speaker 4: Nutters at Ellis Park, there's fervor of the spring Box 116 00:05:01,187 --> 00:05:03,907 Speaker 4: the plane flying over again, and it really reminded me 117 00:05:03,987 --> 00:05:05,187 Speaker 4: that I was there ninety five. 118 00:05:05,387 --> 00:05:07,027 Speaker 5: It reminded me so much for that. And it's a 119 00:05:07,067 --> 00:05:09,707 Speaker 5: credit to this All Black side that they were. 120 00:05:09,867 --> 00:05:11,827 Speaker 4: They were in the contest, but I just felt one 121 00:05:11,867 --> 00:05:13,627 Speaker 4: or two big decisions and that comes from a side 122 00:05:13,627 --> 00:05:16,307 Speaker 4: that centlement's been together for six years and a side 123 00:05:16,307 --> 00:05:18,787 Speaker 4: that's in its first season. But there's not a hell 124 00:05:18,867 --> 00:05:20,347 Speaker 4: of a lot between the two teams, and I can 125 00:05:20,387 --> 00:05:21,747 Speaker 4: tell you know when so that forgets. 126 00:05:21,507 --> 00:05:22,947 Speaker 5: News in the next they're gonna have to play very 127 00:05:22,987 --> 00:05:23,507 Speaker 5: well to win. 128 00:05:23,707 --> 00:05:24,987 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great analysis. 129 00:05:25,147 --> 00:05:27,187 Speaker 2: It really is about the settled nature of the South 130 00:05:27,187 --> 00:05:30,147 Speaker 2: African side. I saw Victor Mattfield on Super Sports coverage 131 00:05:30,147 --> 00:05:33,627 Speaker 2: afterwards say this is the best spring Box team we 132 00:05:33,747 --> 00:05:34,587 Speaker 2: have ever seen. 133 00:05:34,827 --> 00:05:35,667 Speaker 3: Do you agree with that? 134 00:05:36,787 --> 00:05:38,867 Speaker 5: Not at all. I think the twenty and nineteen would 135 00:05:38,867 --> 00:05:41,387 Speaker 5: whip them. Okay, the two. 136 00:05:41,227 --> 00:05:43,867 Speaker 4: Thousand and nine team that beat the All Blacks They've 137 00:05:43,867 --> 00:05:44,867 Speaker 4: been a very special All. 138 00:05:44,787 --> 00:05:46,947 Speaker 5: Black side, and you know they played against some very 139 00:05:46,947 --> 00:05:47,787 Speaker 5: special or back sides. 140 00:05:47,907 --> 00:05:49,987 Speaker 4: Everything is relative to and he was part of that 141 00:05:50,507 --> 00:05:53,267 Speaker 4: magnificent two thousand and seven World Cup winning side two 142 00:05:53,307 --> 00:05:55,147 Speaker 4: thousand and nine that beat the All Blacks three times 143 00:05:55,187 --> 00:05:58,067 Speaker 4: in succession, beat the British and Irish lines and you know, 144 00:05:58,107 --> 00:05:58,947 Speaker 4: but for the odd. 145 00:05:58,707 --> 00:06:00,747 Speaker 5: Decision in twenty eleven, I've got to walk in for 146 00:06:00,787 --> 00:06:01,507 Speaker 5: that semi final. 147 00:06:01,547 --> 00:06:04,747 Speaker 4: But no, look, everything is you know, like you know 148 00:06:04,747 --> 00:06:06,227 Speaker 4: what they say, he's out of side, out of mind. 149 00:06:06,507 --> 00:06:09,227 Speaker 5: I still believe that two thousand and nine walk upside and. 150 00:06:09,147 --> 00:06:12,067 Speaker 4: The mighty Richie McCaw one hundred and forty eight tests, 151 00:06:12,147 --> 00:06:14,427 Speaker 4: fifteen defeats. He says, the team he's played against and 152 00:06:14,467 --> 00:06:16,667 Speaker 4: what's the greatest was that that's we what team of 153 00:06:16,667 --> 00:06:19,347 Speaker 4: two thousand and nine. So I acknowledge what this team 154 00:06:19,387 --> 00:06:22,667 Speaker 4: has done and they've had wonderful wins. But if I 155 00:06:22,707 --> 00:06:24,627 Speaker 4: look at the quality of that two thousand nine side, 156 00:06:24,627 --> 00:06:26,267 Speaker 4: if I stuck them on the field against this side, 157 00:06:26,267 --> 00:06:27,587 Speaker 4: I'm back in the two thousand. 158 00:06:27,307 --> 00:06:27,787 Speaker 5: And nine side. 159 00:06:28,827 --> 00:06:30,667 Speaker 2: And just a word on Tony Brown, who of course 160 00:06:30,747 --> 00:06:33,347 Speaker 2: is now part of the South African coaching setup. 161 00:06:33,587 --> 00:06:36,507 Speaker 3: Can you see his imprint on this side, Mark? 162 00:06:38,067 --> 00:06:40,427 Speaker 4: I can, and there's people who are raving about it, 163 00:06:40,427 --> 00:06:42,027 Speaker 4: and there's people are saying, what the hell's he doing. 164 00:06:42,067 --> 00:06:43,547 Speaker 5: He's trying to make us play like New Zealand. 165 00:06:43,787 --> 00:06:49,227 Speaker 4: So there's definitely been an evolution of the side at 166 00:06:49,227 --> 00:06:51,387 Speaker 4: the moment. And I think also, I think he's had 167 00:06:51,387 --> 00:06:53,947 Speaker 4: a big say in the young first five sash of 168 00:06:53,947 --> 00:06:57,507 Speaker 4: Feinberg Gomezzoulu, who I've watched play since he was fifteen 169 00:06:57,547 --> 00:07:00,467 Speaker 4: sixteen at Bishops in Cape Town. He's just a wonderfully 170 00:07:00,547 --> 00:07:03,267 Speaker 4: natural talent. He's the closest I've ever seen to a 171 00:07:03,387 --> 00:07:06,467 Speaker 4: Dan Carter type ten in just how naturally he is 172 00:07:06,507 --> 00:07:08,427 Speaker 4: going to make mistakes, but he actually owns the game. 173 00:07:08,467 --> 00:07:11,987 Speaker 5: And I see this wonderful kind of evolution. 174 00:07:11,627 --> 00:07:14,987 Speaker 4: Of him and this this mentor andship of hundred Pollard 175 00:07:15,027 --> 00:07:16,947 Speaker 4: with him. So they've got a gam in that. And 176 00:07:16,987 --> 00:07:18,947 Speaker 4: I looked when I looked at today's Test match as well, 177 00:07:18,987 --> 00:07:21,707 Speaker 4: it was one of those where so he's come through, 178 00:07:21,747 --> 00:07:24,867 Speaker 4: Fussy did well today, these individuals that have come through. 179 00:07:24,907 --> 00:07:26,587 Speaker 4: But I looked at that New Zealand side, I thought 180 00:07:26,827 --> 00:07:29,067 Speaker 4: Scott Robinson would go away and say they pack did 181 00:07:29,147 --> 00:07:30,107 Speaker 4: particularly well. 182 00:07:30,307 --> 00:07:33,347 Speaker 5: Certain people did well, but he knows Richie Wonga has 183 00:07:33,347 --> 00:07:34,667 Speaker 5: got to come back. That's his tenth. 184 00:07:35,027 --> 00:07:36,627 Speaker 4: You know, if you had a Brody Retallic and a 185 00:07:36,667 --> 00:07:39,467 Speaker 4: Shannon for Azell in that pack, what a difference. So 186 00:07:39,507 --> 00:07:41,947 Speaker 4: the big discussion in South Africa is you've got three 187 00:07:41,947 --> 00:07:43,467 Speaker 4: of the best players in the world and they're playing 188 00:07:43,507 --> 00:07:44,587 Speaker 4: off Shawn, you don't pick them. 189 00:07:44,947 --> 00:07:46,787 Speaker 5: We did that and we were seventh in the world. 190 00:07:47,027 --> 00:07:49,107 Speaker 4: We then started picking off short players and we became 191 00:07:49,147 --> 00:07:51,107 Speaker 4: world champions two times. 192 00:07:50,787 --> 00:07:52,267 Speaker 5: In a row and we number one in the world. 193 00:07:52,547 --> 00:07:55,907 Speaker 4: So it's when New Zealand starts picking the best twenty 194 00:07:55,907 --> 00:07:56,627 Speaker 4: three available. 195 00:07:56,747 --> 00:07:58,587 Speaker 5: I don't know, it's going to be a very different ballgame. 196 00:07:58,627 --> 00:07:59,107 Speaker 5: At the moment. 197 00:07:59,627 --> 00:08:01,747 Speaker 3: You've opened up that can of worms for Alistair's Mirke. 198 00:08:01,787 --> 00:08:02,187 Speaker 3: I love it. 199 00:08:02,267 --> 00:08:06,107 Speaker 2: Another chapter in the storied history between these two sides. 200 00:08:06,107 --> 00:08:08,587 Speaker 2: Really appreciate you joining us to break it down across 201 00:08:08,587 --> 00:08:09,347 Speaker 2: New Zealand today. 202 00:08:10,547 --> 00:08:12,907 Speaker 4: All right, thanks mate, and then to all New Zealanders 203 00:08:12,987 --> 00:08:14,627 Speaker 4: just what you know, what a performance from your team 204 00:08:14,627 --> 00:08:16,107 Speaker 4: and we've been on the receiving none of. 205 00:08:16,107 --> 00:08:18,307 Speaker 5: Those close ones. But the tide is going to turn 206 00:08:18,387 --> 00:08:19,027 Speaker 5: pretty quickly. 207 00:08:19,067 --> 00:08:21,467 Speaker 4: I can tell you that now this side's coming and 208 00:08:21,547 --> 00:08:23,067 Speaker 4: the serving side is going to be on read alert. 209 00:08:23,147 --> 00:08:25,067 Speaker 2: Good on you, Mike, I appreciate your time again. Mike 210 00:08:25,187 --> 00:08:30,747 Speaker 2: keohein South African journalist, commentator, analyst, astute observer of the game. 211 00:08:31,467 --> 00:08:34,627 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 212 00:08:34,747 --> 00:08:38,027 Speaker 1: to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow 213 00:08:38,067 --> 00:08:39,627 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.