1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: We've got to maks around the credit card fee news. 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: The band is coming by main next year. Banks will 3 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: still charge retailers, although the COMMAS Commission had some ideas 4 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: around that. So the concern is can a retailer soak 5 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: up the different Sam McKinnon's the head of advocacy at 6 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: the Hospitality in New Zealand, and it's whether Sam, morning. 7 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: To you, Good morning mate. 8 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: What's the bill for the average retailer? You got any 9 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: idea roughly run numbers? 10 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: Well, like I think it sits between one and two percent, 11 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: so around that sort of two percent mark, So obviously 12 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: that that's a bit different depending on which business you 13 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: are and which payments you're accepting. 14 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: What's the reaction? But I've been disappointed at the level 15 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: of banks. I mean, I would have thought this is 16 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: a good news story, isn't it. 17 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: Look I think we're supportive of the intent behind the 18 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: proposed being, but you as a solution doesn't get to 19 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: the core of the issue, which is the fees that 20 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 2: banks are charging to accept payment. 21 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: Does the COMMAS Commission though, and their ruling or their 22 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: decision make a difference on that front. 23 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: Well, the reduction and interchange fees is helpful, but we 24 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: don't have any transparency around how those savings will be 25 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: shared or what the what the flow on will be 26 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: for businesses to be able to actually pass those costs 27 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:05,919 Speaker 2: onto the construy. 28 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: But once you get transparency, it might be the Commerce 29 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: Commission have done a good thing. 30 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: Possibly, yeah, possibly, but it's part of part of the 31 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: overall system in terms of what we charge for, in 32 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 3: terms of what payment fees were charged as merchants, and 33 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: so it kind of deals with part of the problem, 34 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 3: but not the whole problem. 35 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: What should they have done if you've got your magic 36 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: wand and you're running the place. 37 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: Look, I mean, I think for us, it's about thinking 38 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: about what are the some substantive changes that can be 39 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: made to reduce costs for merchants and consumers. So just 40 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: just by passing the ban onto the business and the 41 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: point of sale, I think that just means that we 42 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: have to shuffle where our costs are felt across the business. 43 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: So we're currently just passing those costs on. I think, 44 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: you know, noting that the Minister's release talked about there 45 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: is some overcharge happening, there's still one hundred million of 46 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: genuine costs that's being passed on to the consumer, and 47 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: that business has been businesses are being left to absorb 48 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: those feats. 49 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: How much of it sens with the consumer because you 50 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: don't have to pay this, you don't have to tap and. 51 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: Go well exactly, and I think that that's you know, 52 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: these changes just pass on some of the penalized people 53 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: who choose to insert their card when they're paying or 54 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: pay with cash because the cost will be reflected in 55 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: the price of the goods rather than let the payment. 56 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean it's up to the up to 57 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: the customer to choose that they can still choose to 58 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: pay in ways that mean that they don't pay fees. 59 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: Chicken and egg, though, isn't it. I mean the line 60 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: of profitability. I mean if you put that, if you 61 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: if you pass the charges on, you do run the 62 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: risk that people go, you know what, I'm not paying it, 63 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: therefore your business stuffers and run around with go. 64 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 65 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's there's always that risk. I guess 66 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: for for hospitality, we've got famously type margins and so 67 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: we've kind of got that balancing act to manage cash 68 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: flow and manage revenue in the current environment, and so 69 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: I guess from our perspective, it's a little bit ironic 70 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 2: and a government that calls itself pro businesses fund meal 71 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: eating costs, so it doesness without dealing with the core Recie. 72 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: All right, Sam, I appreciate very much. Sam McKinnon, who's 73 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: the head of advocacy at Hospitality in New Zealand. For 74 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. 75 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 76 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.