1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Now the government's putting more money into developing geothermal projects. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Resources Minister Shane Jones has announced this afternoon that fifty 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: million dollars has been ring fence for exploration and project 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: building and he joins us now high Shane hi a, greetings. 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: How many projects does fifty million dollars get you? 6 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: Well, we announced three today. One particularly important one is 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: going to represent actual drilling of wells around Fakatani because 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: we're confident that businesses there will be able to tap 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: into geothermal energy, but those individual businesses don't have the 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: three million dollars to take the risk. An additional one 11 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: will be happening in Rotao and Codo, where the resources 12 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: are quite profound. However, before we moved to full on extraction, 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: the Crown wants to work with private sector partners and 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: landowners to ensure that the resource sustainability won't be compromised 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: if we intensify both investment and utilization and those locations. 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: So why is it What is the success rate of 17 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: these projects? Do you think? 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: Well, of course some of the drilling does strike dry wells, 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: but I want everyone to remind themselves if it hadn't 20 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: have been for our fore fathers and their wives back 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: in the nineteen fifties and sixties, we wouldn't have a 22 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 2: geothermal resource that's been commercialized in New Zealand. The crown 23 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: stepped up to the plate in the nineteen fifties did 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: an enormous amount of drilling, not always successful. When a 25 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: number of those draw holes have turned into major electricity suppliers. 26 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: And if the private sector can work with the crown 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: and we can insist in some de risking on land 28 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: where we know there's substantial potential, it's a win win situation. 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: If it seems like a reasonable success, right, why can't 30 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: they find the private backing to do it without government assistance? 31 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: Okay, So if you're a gentail and you dominate the 32 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: provision of electricity, why would you supply more electricity if 33 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: it's going to drop the price. This is why telling 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: you media people, the reason that our electricity system is 35 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: not dering affordable energy or indear or indeed secure levels 36 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 2: of energy is because the gentailors are gaming the market. 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: They continue to invest in such a way that it 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 2: suits their individual business. 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: The only you can get investment is it these people. 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: Well, a number of the investors are putting their own 41 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 2: money into the project. We are working with Eastland. They've 42 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: put twenty million dollars in. We are putting some money in. Sadly, 43 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: a lot of the locations are on Mildi land, and 44 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: that itself is a major complication because a lot of 45 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: the hup who are divided as to whether or not 46 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: that time should be used. I said to them today, 47 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: it's about time you thought about national security and economic 48 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: resilience and don't trot out any more treaty fairy tales 49 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: to the mutwa. 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: Now when are we going to get the energy? Let's 51 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: say that they get onto this as fast as they 52 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: possibly can hundred percent success. Right, when do we actually 53 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: start to see this on the grid? 54 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: Oh it'll be a matter of years, sadly, but I 55 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: mean where the situation is worseened also by the attitude 56 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: of regional councils. You may know sixteen million dollars were 57 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: dedicated about eighteen months ago for super critical. Now that's 58 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: a bit of a movie shot. I accept that. But 59 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 2: if they can go five to eight kilometers ie the 60 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: drillers into the earth and tap into a hitherto unknown 61 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 2: massive source of energy, then it'll completely transform the way 62 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: in which electricity and energy is derived in New Zealand. Sadly, 63 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: I'm advised that they're being hobbled by some very narrow 64 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: and very troubling attitudes in the regional council from Micahator. 65 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: So I'm going to get to the bottom of that. 66 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: We are not going to have energy held ransom by unelectable, 67 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: unaccountable bureaucrats and regional council That's why I want to 68 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: destroy regional councils. 69 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: Shane Kelly E Coold from Westpac was on before about 70 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: half an hour ago, and he reckons that we have 71 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: about a seventy five percent chance that we're going to 72 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: end up with some kind of rationing of fuel. 73 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: What do you reckon? Well, once we go into category 74 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: three and four may very well be correct, but all 75 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: I can do is repeat, and I have to believe 76 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: that we'll be told the truth by the energy companies 77 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: that they have sufficient flows of fuel on the vessels 78 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: and also in country. I suspect what Cally's referring to 79 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: is can the refineries continue to operate if there is 80 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: growing uncertainty as to where they get the feedstock? Now 81 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: the feedstock disproportionately for Southeast Asia comes from the Middle East, 82 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 2: but it's not the only source of feedstock. And I 83 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: suspect what he's also talking about. Even if there is 84 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 2: an early cessation to these hostilities, there's a whole lot 85 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: of structural disruptiveness that we're going to have to work through. 86 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: But I don't want anyone panic in feeling that there 87 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: is not enough fuel in New Zealand, or indeed not 88 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: enough fuel on the water. We are operating within the 89 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: framework the statutory holding obligations from the companies. But I 90 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 2: also want to remind you, Heather, we went to a 91 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: just in time model to suit the oil import companies 92 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: and it was introduced by the Labor government when they 93 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: closed down the refinery. I don't know why you people 94 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: don't agree with me on the What are you talking about? 95 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: We spent time on Friday agreeing with you on this. 96 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: Take you up on it. We've got three hundred million 97 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 2: liters of redundant storage space in Rua Kaka Rukaka, which 98 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: means two parrots. Sadly, one hundred parrots arrived and they 99 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 2: want to stop sand mining there. But that's another matter. 100 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: And there is no shortage of redundant space that can 101 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 2: be recapitalized and this is a matter that the officials 102 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: with Channel the Importation Facility will be working through once 103 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: we come out of these set of challenges. 104 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff. Listen, Thank you very much for taking 105 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: the time to talk to us. Go well, let's Shane Jones, 106 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: the Resources Minister. 107 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. 108 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks they'd be from four pm weekdays, 109 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.