Speaker 1: Kyoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Over
Speaker 1: the last decade, as New Zealand has grappled with the
Speaker 1: housing crisis, golf courses have become a lightning rod for controversy.
Speaker 1: Auckland Council alone owns or managers thirteen golf courses across
Speaker 1: the supercity, and many campaigners have targeted these sites as
Speaker 1: being prime land for housing, though as with any major project,
Speaker 1: there are plenty of loud voices on the other side
Speaker 1: of the debate. The recent controversy to hit the Green
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with housing though, but instead with wetlands,
Speaker 1: flooding and the Takapuna golf Course. Ahead of the delivery
Speaker 1: of review findings next week, on this case today on
Speaker 1: the Front Page, we're unpacking the contentious nature of golf
Speaker 1: courses in Auckland, firstly with contributing writer for the spin
Speaker 1: off Hayden Dennell. So, Hayden tell me about what's going
Speaker 1: on with the Takapoona golf course.
Speaker 2: The basic of it is that this all started on
Speaker 2: the Auckland Anniversary Weekends flood when the whole White oh Valley. Basically,
Speaker 2: when underwater, two people died, Homes, businesses were destroyed. In
Speaker 2: the after mass is that the council had to look
Speaker 2: for ways to make sure it wouldn't happen again. And
Speaker 2: so they were basically looking for council owned land that
Speaker 2: could draw a whole heap of water as flooding ever
Speaker 2: took place. And they found that the only big enough
Speaker 2: and appropriate section of land that they own is a
Speaker 2: copoon of golf course. And so they're proposing to turn
Speaker 2: a lot of it into a wetland so that blood's
Speaker 2: ever happened and that will store all the water. But
Speaker 2: that would mean at least reducing the golf course to
Speaker 2: nine holes. That has proved You would never guess this,
Speaker 2: but it has proved controversial.
Speaker 1: Is the golfers aren't happy. Have they proposed anything else?
Speaker 2: In the meantime, the golfers have got their own proposal.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be looking at it a bit deeper
Speaker 2: later this week, but they want to They say that
Speaker 2: they're going to keep eighteen holes. They say that they
Speaker 2: can keep ating holes and still provide enough drainage for
Speaker 2: any future floods. I think it's five hundred million liters
Speaker 2: of wader or something that needs to be stored to
Speaker 2: prevent a repeat of the Upen Anniversary weekend floods. Now,
Speaker 2: I think there's being assessed right now by council officials
Speaker 2: and there are some doubts about whether that is feasible
Speaker 2: or not. And as I understand it as well, there
Speaker 2: are other people that have interest in the course and
Speaker 2: taking on the lease and maybe working a little bit
Speaker 2: closer with the council as well.
Speaker 1: Why is it so difficult to get rid of or
Speaker 1: to simply amend a golf course.
Speaker 2: It's emotional. I'm not a golfer, so I don't have
Speaker 2: the I can't relate to it on a deep emotional
Speaker 2: personal level. But I think there's so many people that
Speaker 2: a lot of their social life is tied up there,
Speaker 2: a lot of their enjoyment takes place in this course,
Speaker 2: and the idea of doing away with it that really
Speaker 2: offends them on a personal level. There's also I mean,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of money, let's say, that's tied up
Speaker 2: in a lot of golf courses, and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of resources for people that are passionate about the sports
Speaker 2: to access and so it's often hard to dislodge the
Speaker 2: courses because you'll get a backlash from some of the
Speaker 2: more wealthy and well connected members of society who enjoy
Speaker 2: using that course. And I mean there's a whole heap
Speaker 2: of reasons.
Speaker 1: Are you surprised to see so much backlash towards this proposal?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I mean you just remember a few years ago,
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, I think it was that Chamberlaine Park golf
Speaker 2: course and Mount Albert. The local board they're proposed to
Speaker 2: remove half of it and make it nine holes and
Speaker 2: give some they definitely needed some sports facilities, community sports facilities,
Speaker 2: and that caused a massive backclash. The board was voted out,
Speaker 2: the proposal was put on hold or supported. Now so,
Speaker 2: I'm absolutely not surprised. It seems like this happens whenever
Speaker 2: a golf course is in any way threatened with some
Speaker 2: sort of different use remu edit golf course another one
Speaker 2: where where Bill Golf is talking about potentially using it
Speaker 2: for a different purpose than the local board. The Orducky
Speaker 2: local Board extended its least betweenty ninety one, I think.
Speaker 2: So this seems to happen just about every time, And
Speaker 2: just for context, the council owns. I think thirteen golf
Speaker 2: courses an autant and there is something like forty three overall,
Speaker 2: so it's not a city that is short of golf courses,
Speaker 2: but it's still it proves incredibly difficult to get rid
Speaker 2: of any of them.
Speaker 3: If the golf courses plan for eighteen holes and the
Speaker 3: wetland proposal that they're proposed works, it covers the same
Speaker 3: money and covers the same amount of space, then it
Speaker 3: was it would stay a golf course, but they would
Speaker 3: be up to the local board. If the council one
Speaker 3: was the only one that was possible, be up to
Speaker 3: the local board what to do in that remaining space,
Speaker 3: So it could be mine, whole golf course and driving range,
Speaker 3: it could be whatever the local board.
Speaker 2: Went out with.
Speaker 1: I did love the bit in your article about the
Speaker 1: woman complaining about duck poo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought, I mean this is I thought this
Speaker 2: was one of the most furious arguments again redeveloping the
Speaker 2: golf course. That was a local woman who says that
Speaker 2: she likes to use the course to walk her dog.
Speaker 2: And if there's a wet land, there'll be heaps of
Speaker 2: ducks here, and the ducks or crapp everywhere, and then
Speaker 2: the dog it seems will be mainlining the duck poo
Speaker 2: and the story that was the story from staff and
Speaker 2: it had a picture of the dog looking very forlornly
Speaker 2: into the middle distance, which I think was probably the
Speaker 2: dog contemplating it set to eating duck footh.
Speaker 1: I love how it was just like the title of
Speaker 1: the image, just look looking towards its future of duck
Speaker 1: oo meals it.
Speaker 2: Didn't look happy about it. Now I know this is
Speaker 2: this is one of the more low costs golf courses.
Speaker 2: And Chamberlain part was the same where it's not just
Speaker 2: the toity toity rich members of society. He use it.
Speaker 2: And so there's an argument from like an an equity
Speaker 2: perspective to keep as much of this golf course as possible.
Speaker 2: But you just couldn't take a better argument. For you,
Speaker 2: if you're going to try to do away with some
Speaker 2: of the golf course and maybe keep nine holes, then
Speaker 2: literally people died and we need a place to store
Speaker 2: water so that that will never happen again, and homes
Speaker 2: and businesses were destroyed. And if even there's going to
Speaker 2: be a time that a golf course actually goes then
Speaker 2: it's probably this time, but I still give it up.
Speaker 2: I think my last pods was given them a twenty
Speaker 2: five to the council twenty five percent jump. I sort
Speaker 2: of offer it between that.
Speaker 1: I saw a figure on Golf New Zealand's website that
Speaker 1: last year golf club membership sat at about one hundred
Speaker 1: and forty two thousand, eight hundred and eighty registrations nationwide.
Speaker 1: New Zealand has more than four hundred golf courses, which
Speaker 1: is apparently the second in the world per capita, behind Scotland.
Speaker 1: Why do we need all of them?
Speaker 2: Well, I would argue, and I have argued in the past,
Speaker 2: that we don't and I have really no problem with
Speaker 2: having a heap of golf courses. People enjoy them used.
Speaker 2: But when when they're on public land in places that
Speaker 2: could be used for any manner of community facilities or
Speaker 2: even housing to address the housing crisis, that's sort of
Speaker 2: where it starts getting a bit techier. In this case,
Speaker 2: it's where it's needed to prevent flooding that could damage
Speaker 2: lives of businesses or homes. Takapuna is one of the
Speaker 2: cheapest courses, but also located right next to Smails Farm
Speaker 2: in the middle of the heap of housing developments, a
Speaker 2: heap of business, and it's public land that we're not
Speaker 2: getting a huge return on that for sure, and so
Speaker 2: I would argue that, look, we should be able to
Speaker 2: use some of these courses for different purposes, particularly when
Speaker 2: they're in dense urban areas, right next to public transport
Speaker 2: in the middle of housing development.
Speaker 1: Does it feel a bit like the council's hands are
Speaker 1: tied here. It's not like we need a law change
Speaker 1: to get this done. The council could do this tomorrow,
Speaker 1: but the public just doesn't want to let them.
Speaker 2: I think that it's really just the political consequences that
Speaker 2: people fear, and it is, as you say, it's council land.
Speaker 2: They should be able to do what they like with it.
Speaker 2: But it has proved incredibly difficult to just get over
Speaker 2: the amount of angst and lobbying that any proposals to
Speaker 2: get rid of a golf course generates. I remember going
Speaker 2: to a meeting about Chamberlain Park and one of the
Speaker 2: local board members, I think it might have been Peter
Speaker 2: Hayes being referred to as Judas Haines or something like that.
Speaker 2: Grahams maybe Judas Es. There's pretty vehement opposition to it.
Speaker 2: It can often have political ramifications for the local councilors
Speaker 2: or local board members, and so I think there's a
Speaker 2: reticence Todre to coect the hornet's nest, so to speak.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Hayden, thanks a lot.
Speaker 4: Chelsea to talk us through the golf course and Auckland
Speaker 4: Council's views on it.
Speaker 1: We're joined now by Nsitt Herald reporter Benjamin Plumber. Benjamin,
Speaker 1: can you talk about the Takapoona Golf Club's alternate proposal
Speaker 1: to wal Auckland councils suggested?
Speaker 5: Yeah, So the Takapuna Golf Club wants the retain the
Speaker 5: courses eighteen holes and proposes a dry base on which
Speaker 5: would create a flood retention zone. And both ideas are
Speaker 5: now being stacked up against each other by the Auckland
Speaker 5: Council and it.
Speaker 1: Seems like to me that the alternate option, they're pretty
Speaker 1: confident that they're going to hit that five hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty million leaders as well taught me through that. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So the council's proposal to restore part of the park
Speaker 5: area to a wetland and dry detention areas which will
Speaker 5: increase flood storage, which they say will be a minimum
Speaker 5: from sixty million leaders to five hundred and fifty million leaders,
Speaker 5: which is about equivalent to two hundred and twenty Olympic
Speaker 5: swimming pools. And they say that any alternative plan would
Speaker 5: need to hold this amount as a minimum.
Speaker 1: So I understand that local golfing hero Ryan Fox has
Speaker 1: now come out of the would work in favor of
Speaker 1: the revised plan.
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, he has.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 5: Ryan was playing it tech Burner Golf Club Whindow. He's
Speaker 5: trying to get on the PGA Tour. He's now two
Speaker 5: time PGA Tour winner, and he had a message over
Speaker 5: the weekend just throwing his support behind retaining the full
Speaker 5: eighteen hole course. He says it the club provides affordable
Speaker 5: access to the game for those wanting to get into
Speaker 5: the sport. And you know, it's really exploded in like
Speaker 5: the numbers. The number of golfers has exploded since COVID.
Speaker 5: I think Golf New Zealand reported a fifty percent growth
Speaker 5: club memberships in the last five years, so you know
Speaker 5: there's record participation numbers at the moment. In Ryan Fox
Speaker 5: says the techapun of golf course is a significant public
Speaker 5: asset that provides a great service to golf in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us have this view of
Speaker 1: golf as being a rich person sport. I saw a
Speaker 1: quote from Golf and z ED CEO Jeff Latch where
Speaker 1: he said that golf is the most played sport in
Speaker 1: New Zealand, attracting more than five hundred thousand participants annually
Speaker 1: now first off, and initially I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: saw that this morning, and I was like, Okay, that
Speaker 1: seems a bit odd to me. But after consulting some
Speaker 1: of our colleagues from the Sports department, including Newstalk ZBS
Speaker 1: Andrew Olderson, I've come around to it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it's it's obviously, like I said, it's grown
Speaker 5: in popularity in recent years, and you know, it's a
Speaker 5: game for everyone. Anyone can sort of get involved and
Speaker 5: get started at any age of their life. Rugby where
Speaker 5: you often started as a kid and play through, but yeah,
Speaker 5: a lot of people can start at whatever age. So
Speaker 5: just on the point that golf is expensive, a lot
Speaker 5: of clubs are, but Takapuna, for example, it's one of
Speaker 5: only two public courses in Auckland and very accessible, very
Speaker 5: very cheap, so it would be quite a big loss
Speaker 5: for those wanting to get into golf.
Speaker 6: I've encourage as much speed intemperance as possibly can quickly
Speaker 6: to say it doesn't have you always best because there
Speaker 6: is out We'll have a look at that when it comes.
Speaker 1: And how has Auckland Council responded to all of this.
Speaker 5: Auckland Council at the moment, so they're working hard to
Speaker 5: balance the needs of the wire Ow community and those
Speaker 5: that use the land. At the moment, they say they've
Speaker 5: seen great support for golf and say they'll do whatever
Speaker 5: they can to accommodate recreational needs, including golf. But they
Speaker 5: say what they won't do is prioritize them over the
Speaker 5: urgent need to protect people's lives and properties from extreme flooding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, both plans are being considered at the moment, things
Speaker 1: like costs and the differences between the proposals and those
Speaker 1: of we shared after the reviewers complete I believe next week.
Speaker 5: Yes, correct, they say they're currently in the final stages
Speaker 5: of anate feasibility assessment of Takapoona's plan, Takapoona Golf Club's plan,
Speaker 5: and that's going to be concluded early next week. They
Speaker 5: haven't given specifics on how much this will cost, but
Speaker 5: the Auckland Council's original plan indicated costs of around fifty
Speaker 5: seven million.
Speaker 1: So we're expecting that announcement on Monday about the review
Speaker 1: into the project. Then it'll be up to the local
Speaker 1: board to make a decision that it'll go out to
Speaker 1: the public. Do you think public and industry pushback could
Speaker 1: overrule what the council wants to do in the end?
Speaker 5: I think the just on the number of people that
Speaker 5: have gone to these public meetings. You know, it's obviously
Speaker 5: a hot topic at the moment, and speaking to the
Speaker 5: Tech Golf Club, I know there's a lot of sport
Speaker 5: for them as well as the rest of the golf
Speaker 5: and community, so I know that they're not going to
Speaker 5: just lie down without a fight. But I guess we'll
Speaker 5: wait and see.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Ben.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 1: at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
Speaker 1: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
Speaker 1: a sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front
Speaker 1: page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
Speaker 1: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.