1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Good afternoon. The government has announced a public inquiry into 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: the Tom Phillips case. It'll be led by Justice Simon 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Moore Casey in private without public hearings, to protect the children, 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: and it will investigate where the government agencies like the police, 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: took all practicable steps to protect the children and get 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: them back due to the Collins Is the Attorney General 7 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: Hi Judith Oh, Hi Heather, does the fact that you've 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: called this inquiry suggest that you do not think or 9 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: you're not sure that they took all practical steps? 10 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: Well, I, like many other members of the public, would 11 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: like to know exactly what was done and when, and 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: whether or not there were other things that government agencies 13 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 2: could have done. And it's not just about that, but 14 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: once says children get a bit older, they should know 15 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 2: for certain exactly what was done to save them from 16 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: the situation. And at the moment, like most of us 17 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: were in the dark on it. 18 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: There seems to be a little bit of upset as 19 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: to why this inquiry is not looking into the courts. 20 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: What's going on. 21 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: There the courts themselves? 22 00:00:58,240 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: Well, it's the family court. 23 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: Because the family Court we have this concept and principle 24 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: of committee between the court's, parliament and the government where 25 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 2: we don't go into individual cases, and we can't because 26 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: we don't live in a country where governments and politicians 27 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: get involved in individual cases. But the other thing is 28 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: too is that you know, so if someone wanted to, 29 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: if we want to have an investigation to the family 30 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: courts and how they operate, that would be that could 31 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: take years and it would also not be about one 32 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 2: particular case. In this situation. What we can look into 33 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: is what government agencies knew, what they did, what they 34 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: didn't do, should they have done more, was there anything? 35 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: It will in fact, of course, look at their what 36 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: they told or what they gave to the family court 37 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: as well. But what it won't do is we're not 38 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: going on some witch hunt in the family court. 39 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: Now, how are we going to talk about this in 40 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: the outcome of this, especially re the police, when the 41 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: most important information remains suppressed, probably will always be suppressed. 42 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: I think the most important information deals with the children 43 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: and what effects what's happened these last four years have 44 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: had on them, and I think that has to be suppressed. 45 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: And I'm sure that you'll agree with me that they. 46 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: No, I'm not arguing about that, but if we can't 47 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: even like, if the public can't even be told that information, 48 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: how can we properly assess whether the police have done 49 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: the right thing here? 50 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think leave it to the inquirer. I believe 51 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: that the terms of reference are wide enough for the 52 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: inquiry to look at what the police did, but what 53 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: other agencies did? What did it all? Rung and Tamariki, 54 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: the Ministry for Children, what any other government agencies involved, 55 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: What did they do and what they didn't do? I 56 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: think that is the right thing for this inquiry. And 57 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: I realize it's really difficult for people because they're used 58 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: to a lot of these sorts of inquiries being in public. 59 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: There are very extensive suppression orders in place in the 60 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: courts and we cannot disregard those, and particularly when they're 61 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: there in the interests of children, we simply cannot do 62 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: anything about that. And the alternative is we wait for 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: years and years and years and don't actually know what 64 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: the answers are to what could have been done better? 65 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: Judith, just on another subject, where are we at with 66 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: the sacking of Andrew Costa? 67 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: Well, the issue with mister Costa is with the Public 68 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: Service Commissioner. I obviously don't get involved in that and 69 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: can't and it is a matter between himself and the Commissioner. 70 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: Judah, thank you very much, appreciate your time, Judith Collins, 71 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: the Attorney General. 72 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 73 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: news talks they'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 74 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.